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Looking at this from afar I am wondering what's going on? Maybe explains why remainer May hasn't done anything since the referendum result, expecting this outcome?
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Brexit, not happening now?? on 16:25 - Nov 5 with 1346 views
Brexit, not happening now?? on 16:09 - Nov 5 by 1BobbyHazell
Ok, well now I understand how you feel separate to the EU flag waving 'protesters'. I hadn't seen such definitions being spoken of on here before. I hadn't taken it for granted in the way I have expected you to take for granted the separation between me and the more xenophobic elements of Leave.
I fail to see how mentioning who was the public political face of Leave is relevant, you had Dave and George funded by Goldman Sachs! I personally didn't even watch any debates etc. Why would I watch/listen to professional duplicitous illusionists pretending to oppose each other? I tried to explain to people that Boris wasn't remotely really a Brexiter, just another actor playing his part for the show.
As I stated many times in pre vote debates, my Brexit vote wasn't about some fantasy of a sudden uprise in our lives now under a Tory government, in fact people (on both sides) focusing on it that way was a little frustrating and, to me, rather short sighted. It was about the future and the possible, albeit unlikely, time when the population realise the things that you and I take for granted about neo liberal control and wish to do something about it. Tied to the EU and the CETA type laws it is rushing through they won't be able to do anything to change who controls things and where the real power lies. The sort of Corporate Meritocracy that you and I have both opposed for many years would become enshrined as law.
So I think I agree with you that our opposition is about pragmatic strategy but, as I seem to be repeating a lot on here, how or where could the improvements come with a local sovereignty so diminished that your MP, political party or even PM could do nothing about it even if we ever decided to truly change things?
I personally think we need to keep our focus on where we are all going with this and not get caught up in all the 'dramas' being thrown around.
We've got work to do.
Peace
I absolutely appreciate the seperation between you and the xenophobic leave vote.
The reason that I think the public face and more generally the narrative surrounding the leave vote was important is because of who it ends up empowering. As I say, to me it seems self-evident that the xenophobic narrative that surrounded the successful leave campaign has empowered these elements as a political force -- the vote ended up legitimising this kind of rhetoric. I struggle to see how anyone could argue with that really.
I understand the desire to pick big battles, consciousness raising, movement building etc, and I'll sit and talk political theory until the cows come home. But as i've got more burnt out, and also older, concerns about the world I'm gonna bring kids in to--the 'dramas' in the here and now--come into sharper focus. I never would have dreamed of joining the Labour party a few years ago.
And there's a sense in which concerning one's self with planning the perfect revolution is only possible from a position of privilege. I appreciate that's not really what you're saying, but then it sounds like you think compromising (e.g. voting Remain when you know the EU needs to dealt if we're to build socialism) in response to short-term issues is poor strategy?
I'm pretty sure I would have declared Full Communism or nothing! at some point, but it came as something of a disappointment to learn how few people shared my conviction.
[Post edited 5 Nov 2016 16:39]
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Brexit, not happening now?? on 09:18 - Dec 10 with 1148 views
Just heard on the radio that British MP's are seeking to take a case through the Irish courts under EU law claiming that Brexit has actually been triggered by the referendum and suing Ireland and the EU for not negotiating the terms of the exit with Britain already.
So that's a group of MP's who dislike European bureaucracy seeking to use European bureaucracy to circumvent British democracy. Which makes sense.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Brexit, not happening now?? on 09:18 - Dec 10 by BrianMcCarthy
Just heard on the radio that British MP's are seeking to take a case through the Irish courts under EU law claiming that Brexit has actually been triggered by the referendum and suing Ireland and the EU for not negotiating the terms of the exit with Britain already.
So that's a group of MP's who dislike European bureaucracy seeking to use European bureaucracy to circumvent British democracy. Which makes sense.
We seem to be entering an era of "All bets are off".
Not forgetting the delicious irony that Britain is now suing Ireland for refusing to divorce her when we've spend the last 800 years trying to do exactly that!
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Brexit, not happening now?? on 09:34 - Dec 10 by BrianMcCarthy
Not forgetting the delicious irony that Britain is now suing Ireland for refusing to divorce her when we've spend the last 800 years trying to do exactly that!
They might have a point Brian, and they might not find the Irish standing in their way. Saw this week also EU suggesting UK will only get 18 months to negotiate when the rules for exit clearly state 2 years from triggering Article 50 o fck knows what is really going on. Found out recently I can apply for Irish Citizenship as one grandfather, who I never met, was Irish, managed to find his details on the census meaning I can stay afterall. Had visions of being turfed out and turning up at Portsmouth off the Ferry with a dozen dogs demanding 'Wot fcking now?!' Grrr. It must be very uncertain too for all the EU workers in the UK.
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Brexit, not happening now?? on 10:52 - Dec 10 with 1006 views
Brexit, not happening now?? on 10:14 - Dec 10 by Brightonhoop
They might have a point Brian, and they might not find the Irish standing in their way. Saw this week also EU suggesting UK will only get 18 months to negotiate when the rules for exit clearly state 2 years from triggering Article 50 o fck knows what is really going on. Found out recently I can apply for Irish Citizenship as one grandfather, who I never met, was Irish, managed to find his details on the census meaning I can stay afterall. Had visions of being turfed out and turning up at Portsmouth off the Ferry with a dozen dogs demanding 'Wot fcking now?!' Grrr. It must be very uncertain too for all the EU workers in the UK.
I think the Irish are very worried about Britain the possibility of Britain leaving.
Economically, opinion is divided: there would be benefits to being the EU country with the highest percentage of English speakers but they are hard to quantify.
The biggest worry, though, is the North. If checkpoints are put up in Derry, Armagh, Louth and Donegal then there will be heightened tension and no-one knows the effects of that increased tension. We are worried. Peace was hard-won.
PS Welcome to Ireland, my man! Fáilte abhaile (welcome home)!
[Post edited 10 Dec 2016 10:54]
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Brexit, not happening now?? on 10:52 - Dec 10 by BrianMcCarthy
I think the Irish are very worried about Britain the possibility of Britain leaving.
Economically, opinion is divided: there would be benefits to being the EU country with the highest percentage of English speakers but they are hard to quantify.
The biggest worry, though, is the North. If checkpoints are put up in Derry, Armagh, Louth and Donegal then there will be heightened tension and no-one knows the effects of that increased tension. We are worried. Peace was hard-won.
PS Welcome to Ireland, my man! Fáilte abhaile (welcome home)!
[Post edited 10 Dec 2016 10:54]
Cheers, I'll have a Guiness lol
Yeah the border thing presents some problems certainly.
I had friends in Donegal decades ago, and when visiting we'd cross the border for petrol and shopping because it was alot cheaper at the time in the North. There were areas where the border was pulled 5 miles 'inland' into the North because it was just too dangerous for the British soldiers on the border itself. And driving a hire car from Belfast airport, you could feel the eyes on you everywhere you went, and the questions when stopping, and then getting stopped by the old RUC and Army in Tyrone landing by helicopter. Horrible times, let's hope they dont return.
Brexit, not happening now?? on 09:18 - Dec 10 by BrianMcCarthy
Just heard on the radio that British MP's are seeking to take a case through the Irish courts under EU law claiming that Brexit has actually been triggered by the referendum and suing Ireland and the EU for not negotiating the terms of the exit with Britain already.
So that's a group of MP's who dislike European bureaucracy seeking to use European bureaucracy to circumvent British democracy. Which makes sense.
SNAFU
Strong and stable my arse.
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Brexit, not happening now?? on 11:27 - Dec 10 with 941 views
Brexit, not happening now?? on 10:14 - Dec 10 by Brightonhoop
They might have a point Brian, and they might not find the Irish standing in their way. Saw this week also EU suggesting UK will only get 18 months to negotiate when the rules for exit clearly state 2 years from triggering Article 50 o fck knows what is really going on. Found out recently I can apply for Irish Citizenship as one grandfather, who I never met, was Irish, managed to find his details on the census meaning I can stay afterall. Had visions of being turfed out and turning up at Portsmouth off the Ferry with a dozen dogs demanding 'Wot fcking now?!' Grrr. It must be very uncertain too for all the EU workers in the UK.
The 18 months, suggested by Michel Barnier, was because any negotiated settlement has to be approved by all of the other 27 nations and the European Parliament. That will take 4-6 months.
The triggering if Article 50 does not, necessarily, trigger the start of negotiations on future trading relationships. Unwinding the UK presence in EU bodies is priority 1. Border control is high on the list and the land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic presents unique problems.
I'm fully expecting the UK and EU27 to reach March 2019 with the U.K. Exiting the EU, the single market and the customs union, with no trade agreements in place. But nobody knows what the situation thereafter will be.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky
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Brexit, not happening now?? on 12:09 - Dec 10 with 902 views
Ex-pat that does not want to live in the Uk , puts the county down at every opportunity, don't want to pay Uk taxs, want's the rest of us to feel sorry for him and not leave, unlikely to get his way so digs up being Irish in some way
Why not just have a word with Angela Merkel she will let you stay no matter where you come from, no checks nothing, you will be just fine.
Brexit, not happening now?? on 12:09 - Dec 10 by 2Thomas2Bowles
Ex-pat that does not want to live in the Uk , puts the county down at every opportunity, don't want to pay Uk taxs, want's the rest of us to feel sorry for him and not leave, unlikely to get his way so digs up being Irish in some way
Why not just have a word with Angela Merkel she will let you stay no matter where you come from, no checks nothing, you will be just fine.
Mate, if you had brains you'd be dangerous. Lots more I could say but not going to bite. We have one mouth and two ears for a reason. I'm tempted to round off with gobby tw4t, but I wont.
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Brexit, not happening now?? on 12:44 - Dec 10 with 707 views
Brexit, not happening now?? on 12:29 - Dec 10 by Brightonhoop
Mate, if you had brains you'd be dangerous. Lots more I could say but not going to bite. We have one mouth and two ears for a reason. I'm tempted to round off with gobby tw4t, but I wont.
Brexit, not happening now?? on 12:44 - Dec 10 by 2Thomas2Bowles
Good it would only be more whinging.
Dear boy, life is everso short, and your's is passing you by. Get some help with your odd stalking tendencies too, if it's not me it's someone else. Perhaps you're better than that, perhaps you're not.
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