| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion 11:01 - Oct 1 with 5840 views | jacksinceever |
Has anyone have a realistic cost of buying land, building a new purpose built stadium and putting in all the necessary infrastructure (from which Swans would then gain 100% of all profit from attendances, catering, car parking etc), as opposed to the cost of extending a stadium they will (as things stand) never own, have limited potential to expand or improve and pay out a large part of income to third parties (including companies piggybacking on the club's success by charging for parking, etc from which the club sees not a red cent) |  | | |  |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 11:22 - Oct 1 with 3915 views | JBT95 |
They will never get 100% from catering!
Don't think the council would allow it sadly. [Post edited 1 Oct 2014 11:23]
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 11:28 - Oct 1 with 3889 views | scottishjack |
I think we would be better off asking the council how much it would cost to buy the Liberty outright. |  | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 11:34 - Oct 1 with 3870 views | Joe_bradshaw |
QPR's proposed new 40,000 seater stadium is anticipated to cost £200M.
That's London of course so it would be a bit less here but still way out of our reach I would say.
Unless some wealthy American backers were to suddenly appear.......... |  |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 11:38 - Oct 1 with 3859 views | Uxbridge |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 11:34 - Oct 1 by Joe_bradshaw |
QPR's proposed new 40,000 seater stadium is anticipated to cost £200M.
That's London of course so it would be a bit less here but still way out of our reach I would say.
Unless some wealthy American backers were to suddenly appear.......... |
Half of that will be land price. Plus we're talking about buying an existing stadium not building one.
Given the Council finances I'd wager there'd never be a better time to buy. |  |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 11:50 - Oct 1 with 3826 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 11:38 - Oct 1 by Uxbridge |
Half of that will be land price. Plus we're talking about buying an existing stadium not building one.
Given the Council finances I'd wager there'd never be a better time to buy. |
I agree but I was responding to the OP about the alternative of building new which is really a non starter for us. | |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 11:59 - Oct 1 with 3798 views | Uxbridge |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 11:50 - Oct 1 by Joe_bradshaw |
I agree but I was responding to the OP about the alternative of building new which is really a non starter for us. |
Well lands cheaper here. Would take a massive amount of course and we'd definitely need outside investment if that was to happen. But to buy the Liberty? Maybe not. | |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 12:19 - Oct 1 with 3713 views | perchrockjack |
One thing for sure is we cant stand still and I don't think we will.
Exciting times. |  |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 12:43 - Oct 1 with 3637 views | Clinton |
Didnt Huw make it quite clear at the last fan forum that he was happy with the current situation of a third party (council) owning and running the stadium?
He had no intention of making an offer for the stadium. I forget the detailed logic he used to arrive at that conclusion, but it would also rule out building a new stadium. |  |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 12:47 - Oct 1 with 3624 views | jacksinceever |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 12:43 - Oct 1 by Clinton |
Didnt Huw make it quite clear at the last fan forum that he was happy with the current situation of a third party (council) owning and running the stadium?
He had no intention of making an offer for the stadium. I forget the detailed logic he used to arrive at that conclusion, but it would also rule out building a new stadium. |
It just seems crazy to me. it's like living in social housing or paying a rip-off landlord when you got a wad in the bank and could buy your own house outright.
Owning your stadium and growing the club are not mutually exclusive (in fact the stadium is an asset that can raise capital at a later date if needed) | | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 14:08 - Oct 1 with 3470 views | Catullus |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 12:47 - Oct 1 by jacksinceever |
It just seems crazy to me. it's like living in social housing or paying a rip-off landlord when you got a wad in the bank and could buy your own house outright.
Owning your stadium and growing the club are not mutually exclusive (in fact the stadium is an asset that can raise capital at a later date if needed) |
It's not really like that though. We have a wad of income, but to stay up requires a lot of investment.
And if we were to buy, we would have no money to expand the ground. That would probably be the case for several more years thereafter.
Lets say we buy and then have no money to improve the squad or even retain some players who want better deals, relegation could follow and render it all moot.
And like others, I don't see the council giving planning permission for a new ground. It would leave the Ospreys at the Liberty alone. And they don't get the crowds to fund the running. If they left because of that it would become a white elephant. | |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 14:24 - Oct 1 with 3433 views | whiterock |
Paying second part of Wilf's transfer, Gomis signing on fee, Gylfi would cost double or maybe treble what Ben was on in wages, getting most decent players on 4 year contracts comes at a price too. I doubt there be much left to buy a stadium, even less to build one from scratch. | | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 14:27 - Oct 1 with 3423 views | JJJack |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 12:47 - Oct 1 by jacksinceever |
It just seems crazy to me. it's like living in social housing or paying a rip-off landlord when you got a wad in the bank and could buy your own house outright.
Owning your stadium and growing the club are not mutually exclusive (in fact the stadium is an asset that can raise capital at a later date if needed) |
It just seems crazy to me. it's like living in social housing or paying a rip-off landlord when you got a wad in the bank and could buy your own house outright.
Yet taht's exactly what hundreds of thousands of people thought acceptable to do over the last 50 or 60yrs. No wonder they kept voting Labour all them years........ |  | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 17:26 - Oct 1 with 3261 views | s1ackjack |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 14:24 - Oct 1 by whiterock |
Paying second part of Wilf's transfer, Gomis signing on fee, Gylfi would cost double or maybe treble what Ben was on in wages, getting most decent players on 4 year contracts comes at a price too. I doubt there be much left to buy a stadium, even less to build one from scratch. |
Spot on. I think a lot on here look at what we spend on transfers and what income we get from TV etc. and forget what our wage bill is. As you say we have certainly increased our expenditure massively, on wages and longer contracts, which is exactly what we need to do to ensure we keep our best players to continue competing at this level. I don't think our balance sheet will be quite so healthy at the end of this year, which is probably the reason for Huw's caution when it comes to expanding the stadium etc. |  |
| The real slackjack .... beware of imposters! They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery ......... Enough said! |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 17:33 - Oct 1 with 3246 views | johnlangy |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 11:50 - Oct 1 by Joe_bradshaw |
I agree but I was responding to the OP about the alternative of building new which is really a non starter for us. |
It probably is a non-starter but, being sensible about the cost, the Liberty cost £27 m 10 years ago so It would probably cost double now, say £60 m. To make it 40,000 (the comparison with QPR) would take that to maybe £80 m.
Their £200 m likely as not includes hotels, conference facilities and so on. | | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 17:35 - Oct 1 with 3242 views | LeonisGod |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 14:08 - Oct 1 by Catullus |
It's not really like that though. We have a wad of income, but to stay up requires a lot of investment.
And if we were to buy, we would have no money to expand the ground. That would probably be the case for several more years thereafter.
Lets say we buy and then have no money to improve the squad or even retain some players who want better deals, relegation could follow and render it all moot.
And like others, I don't see the council giving planning permission for a new ground. It would leave the Ospreys at the Liberty alone. And they don't get the crowds to fund the running. If they left because of that it would become a white elephant. |
That's an easy one to solve- build it up near the new Uni campus development. I reckon Neath Port Talbot would swap the Swans' arm off if they said they wanted to build a new ground on their patch.
Interesting musings, but I can't see anything changing unless these investors they are looking for is with a view to buying the ground. |  | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 17:47 - Oct 1 with 3214 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 17:35 - Oct 1 by LeonisGod |
That's an easy one to solve- build it up near the new Uni campus development. I reckon Neath Port Talbot would swap the Swans' arm off if they said they wanted to build a new ground on their patch.
Interesting musings, but I can't see anything changing unless these investors they are looking for is with a view to buying the ground. |
that'd be great for Swansea residents wouldn't it? Move the stadium to outside Swansea and leave Swansea tax payers with a huge white elephant in the city?
We should stay where we are - buy the stadium if deemed necessary from the council and extend as we need to. That way would be a lot cheaper. Owning the stadium is really not the be all and end all though. I saw the suggestion that we should buy it, because then we can borrow against it??
A lot of 'huge clubs' elsewhere don't own their stadiums - most Italian stadiums are municipal. If we pay to extend, then the whole 'sharing' calculations will get looked into again anyway.
i love the way though that Swans supporters (most of whom are presumably Swansea residents) don't see the connection with 'doing one over' on the council and their own council tax and services. | | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 17:48 - Oct 1 with 3213 views | johnlangy |
The current expansion plans at the Liberty are for 33,000. If we get there it means we're still in the PL, we've been selling out the first expansion stage (25,000) and also selling out the second expansion stage (29,000).
And we'll be there having spent about £20 m over a 3/4 year period without breaking the bank. I'll be happy with that. | | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 18:02 - Oct 1 with 3187 views | dailew |
Not owning the stadium makes us a lot less attractive to asset strippers. |  |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 18:16 - Oct 1 with 3140 views | Dewi1jack |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 11:38 - Oct 1 by Uxbridge |
Half of that will be land price. Plus we're talking about buying an existing stadium not building one.
Given the Council finances I'd wager there'd never be a better time to buy. |
Got to agree with Ux again.
Since we moved from our old, beautifully ugly home, there have been a small minority of us advocating buying White Rock.
We've always been shouted down by people with a limited vision of the future. Maybe at the times we've said it, it wasn't right for the club.
Now the council are skint and I see no reason that any bank would refuse a mortgage, it is an ideal time to buy.
Who in their right mind, would spend thousands, let alone millions, building an extension on a home they rent?
Besides, the stadium would become an excellent asset, should (hopefully never, but never say never) the club ever need to raise finance. Could also mean getting a better interest rate on a short-term loan; all businesses can suffer cash-flow problems after all.
And we're no exception. |  |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 19:00 - Oct 1 with 3081 views | jacksinceever |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 14:27 - Oct 1 by JJJack |
It just seems crazy to me. it's like living in social housing or paying a rip-off landlord when you got a wad in the bank and could buy your own house outright.
Yet taht's exactly what hundreds of thousands of people thought acceptable to do over the last 50 or 60yrs. No wonder they kept voting Labour all them years........ |
JJ, I'm not sure which way you are coming at this from, but just to be clear I am not against social housing or rent privately for those who need to.
My parents did it, my wife's parents did it, most of my family did it at one time or another.
I would have done but I was fortunate enough to be able to raise a deposit and pay for my home.
It just eats away at me that my parents (and many like them) paid over 35 years probably about ten times what their house would have cost them, if they could have only afforded the mortgage at the time. That was different times.
I cannot see the club's landlords being overly helpful if we were to fall on hard times again ("What did you waste all those millions on Mr Jenkins or whoever?") and our only assets are the players who's value can change by the day
I see the argument that a stadium ownership would make us more attractive to asset strippers, but currently should we fall from grace it's possible we'd have no assets to strip | | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 19:22 - Oct 1 with 3042 views | SgorioFruit |
40,000 seater stadium for me please.
If we build it they will come. |  |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 19:38 - Oct 1 with 3010 views | Dr_Winston |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 18:02 - Oct 1 by dailew |
Not owning the stadium makes us a lot less attractive to asset strippers. |
Correct.
Also means that the council have a stake in ensuring a successful football team in the area to pay the maintenance costs. |  |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 20:26 - Oct 1 with 2934 views | blaenaugwentjack |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 19:22 - Oct 1 by SgorioFruit |
40,000 seater stadium for me please.
If we build it they will come. |
They can t build a four thousand seat expansion never mind 40,000 seat stadium. I would love to see it cause the liberty was flawed from the start but, it aint going to happen. | | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 23:15 - Oct 1 with 2823 views | s1ackjack |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 17:48 - Oct 1 by johnlangy |
The current expansion plans at the Liberty are for 33,000. If we get there it means we're still in the PL, we've been selling out the first expansion stage (25,000) and also selling out the second expansion stage (29,000).
And we'll be there having spent about £20 m over a 3/4 year period without breaking the bank. I'll be happy with that. |
This. | |
| The real slackjack .... beware of imposters! They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery ......... Enough said! |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 00:26 - Oct 2 with 2774 views | MyFinalHeaven |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 11:28 - Oct 1 by scottishjack |
I think we would be better off asking the council how much it would cost to buy the Liberty outright. |
Exactly my thoughts. It'd be much. much cheaper and more feasible buying the Liberty than building a new stadium from scratch. |  |
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