| EGM on 14:11 - Jul 25 with 3530 views | DaleiLama |
| EGM on 12:13 - Jul 25 by JumeirahDale |
Agree with most of the other comments. As both a fan and shareholder, I'm willing to consider any option proposed to assist the club in operating, but it needs to be properly communicated and justified - as far as I can tell neither is the case here. We're a pretty switched-on bunch these days when it comes to financing (by necessity) so I'm surprised this shotgun wedding approach was considered viable as anything other than a signaling device. Let's see. |
"I'm surprised this shotgun wedding approach was considered viable as anything other than a signalling device".
.............. speaking of which ........... RAFCBLUE are you still out there
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| EGM on 14:16 - Jul 25 with 3493 views | electricblue |
A figure of about 109 employees at Rochdale AFC of which 29 are players this leaves a fiqure of 111 staff.
How many of these 111 are involved with the squad and the youth setup! 20, 25,
Even out those figures and lets say 80 members of staff.
Surely that is a bloated workforce and with the club losing 30k a week last season as anything other than cutgtng the players wages budget been in operation to help reduce the losses each week....
It is time that the BoD addressed the skeleton in the cupboard and laid bare the facts of how and where the cuts have been introduced.... [Post edited 25 Jul 2023 15:44]
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| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| EGM on 14:26 - Jul 25 with 3441 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
| EGM on 14:16 - Jul 25 by electricblue |
A figure of about 109 employees at Rochdale AFC of which 29 are players this leaves a fiqure of 111 staff.
How many of these 111 are involved with the squad and the youth setup! 20, 25,
Even out those figures and lets say 80 members of staff.
Surely that is a bloated workforce and with the club losing 30k a week last season as anything other than cutgtng the players wages budget been in operation to help reduce the losses each week....
It is time that the BoD addressed the skeleton in the cupboard and laid bare the facts of how and where the cuts have been introduced.... [Post edited 25 Jul 2023 15:44]
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Must admit that figure of 138 did surprise me, it would be interesting to see a breakdown between full time / part time / match day only though before coming to any conclusions. Certainly in the NL there wouldn’t be a requirement for so many match day staff with smaller away attendance numbers? |  | | |
| EGM on 14:34 - Jul 25 with 3403 views | EllDale |
Surely any matchday parttime staff would only be working in the hospitality areas and as such would be considered as what used to be termed casual labour?
Stewarding etc has been given to Taurus and so those personnel wouldn't be employed by the club.
I'm staggered by that figure to be honest. It would be nice to see a breakdown. |  | | |
| EGM on 15:36 - Jul 25 with 3228 views | electricblue |
| EGM on 22:06 - Jul 24 by ThreeLions |
I know in previous posts on this forum I've been critical of some posts containing negativity but this news is really worrying for the future of the club. Hopefully shareholders will vote to not accept the proposal. We are entering dangerous ground even if I believe both directors providing the money probably won't have an ulterior motive. |
What would happen if 1 of the 2 suddenly urgently needed the money that would cause a serious problem.....
The BoD need to come clean and explain why the loans are required......
I understand why they have not bought new shares as they have virually no chance from ever getting some of that returned..... | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| EGM on 15:43 - Jul 25 with 3188 views | electricblue |
| EGM on 23:53 - Jul 24 by 49thseason |
In the last set of accounts, the club had 138 employees, 29 were players.
There are clubs in our league with a total of 50 employees including 25 players.
We are already £450,000 short of last season because we will not be receiving money from the Premier league distribution.
So does the board gamble and hope to get promoted or should they slash the staffing and prepare for a slow decline into obscurity? The EFL money halves next season, crowds will be in terminal decline if we are relegated again.... Its easy to criticise but if not this? What? It is worrying, but if people won't buy tickets, and no one wants to invest, the game is more or less up. This season might be the last roll of the dice. Not looking good I'm afraid. |
25 employees would be enough to run Dale surely... | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| EGM on 15:51 - Jul 25 with 3118 views | Brierls |
| EGM on 15:36 - Jul 25 by electricblue |
What would happen if 1 of the 2 suddenly urgently needed the money that would cause a serious problem.....
The BoD need to come clean and explain why the loans are required......
I understand why they have not bought new shares as they have virually no chance from ever getting some of that returned..... |
You thought Dale would be getting £100K for James Ball.
You don't understand anything. |  | | |
| EGM on 16:05 - Jul 25 with 3051 views | electricblue |
| EGM on 15:51 - Jul 25 by Brierls |
You thought Dale would be getting £100K for James Ball.
You don't understand anything. |
That is your opinion so stick with it.... | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| EGM on 16:34 - Jul 25 with 2938 views | HullDale |
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| EGM on 16:40 - Jul 25 with 2904 views | 442Dale |
Is there any information available about the Supporters Trust’s community asset fund bid? |  |
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| EGM on 16:46 - Jul 25 with 2860 views | Drigdale |
I am glad that they have provided what is to me perfectly good reasons to explain their intentions. In my humble opinion it appears a genuine effort that is for the benefit of the club. As I suspected in my earlier post they don't want to put all their limited resources on the line which would be detrimental for their families.
They have put their money where their mouth is and should be applauded. | | | |
| EGM on 16:51 - Jul 25 with 2820 views | SuddenLad |
The statement basically confirms what plenty on here have said about them securing their money in the event of it all going 't1ts up'.
They both seem to be quite open about the situation about funds being needed and that a variety of 'interested parties' have gone no further with their interest, though some are 'pending'.
We still aren't any closer to understanding the financial health of the club, but we can probably read into that from the EGM motion.
Cash needed to shore up the club until a suitable investor arrives on his white charger. However long that may be, but when it happens, they get their money back. If no white charger appears and the liquidators turn up, they still get paid. It makes sense from their point of view, but is it in the best interests of the club? That's what we have to decide.
Club or no club? It could be the difference between the two. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| EGM on 16:54 - Jul 25 with 2795 views | 442Dale |
| EGM on 16:46 - Jul 25 by Drigdale |
I am glad that they have provided what is to me perfectly good reasons to explain their intentions. In my humble opinion it appears a genuine effort that is for the benefit of the club. As I suspected in my earlier post they don't want to put all their limited resources on the line which would be detrimental for their families.
They have put their money where their mouth is and should be applauded. |
Many would rather there was a shareholders AGM to explain why we suddenly need to take this route and to look at exactly what the current situation is.
They can use that opportunity to explain how, with more money being injected into the club, what the plan is going forward and how it will be more successful than the last year or so - see the timeline above as to what the club’s position was during this time.
This would need to be detailed, illustrating how things have gone wrong previously and what structures are in place to avoid this in the future. That’s a reasonable request wouldn’t you say? | |
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| EGM on 17:01 - Jul 25 with 2746 views | DaleFan7 |
Can fully understand why they'd want collateral after already spending so much on buying shares.
The worrying part is that it has come to this already, are we really that skint? | | | |
| EGM on 17:06 - Jul 25 with 2708 views | Brierls |
| EGM on 16:51 - Jul 25 by SuddenLad |
The statement basically confirms what plenty on here have said about them securing their money in the event of it all going 't1ts up'.
They both seem to be quite open about the situation about funds being needed and that a variety of 'interested parties' have gone no further with their interest, though some are 'pending'.
We still aren't any closer to understanding the financial health of the club, but we can probably read into that from the EGM motion.
Cash needed to shore up the club until a suitable investor arrives on his white charger. However long that may be, but when it happens, they get their money back. If no white charger appears and the liquidators turn up, they still get paid. It makes sense from their point of view, but is it in the best interests of the club? That's what we have to decide.
Club or no club? It could be the difference between the two. |
I’m not sure how it can be viewed in any other way than in the best interests of the club. Unless I’m missing something.
Discussions with potential investors are no secret. The Trust were even forced to comment recently on a rumour going around town that the club was about to be sold. If that rumour didn’t originate from the club, where did it originate and with what motive?
It doesn’t take a genius to work out that some of the ‘potential investors’ are being viewed as not in the best interests of the club. Read between the lines of the statements made by SG & RK.
A (secured) directors loan, for the reasons stated, surely means the club aren’t as vulnerable to the threat of being forced to accept investment from an undesirable party out of desperation? | | | |
| EGM on 17:06 - Jul 25 with 2700 views | TalkingSutty |
| EGM on 16:51 - Jul 25 by SuddenLad |
The statement basically confirms what plenty on here have said about them securing their money in the event of it all going 't1ts up'.
They both seem to be quite open about the situation about funds being needed and that a variety of 'interested parties' have gone no further with their interest, though some are 'pending'.
We still aren't any closer to understanding the financial health of the club, but we can probably read into that from the EGM motion.
Cash needed to shore up the club until a suitable investor arrives on his white charger. However long that may be, but when it happens, they get their money back. If no white charger appears and the liquidators turn up, they still get paid. It makes sense from their point of view, but is it in the best interests of the club? That's what we have to decide.
Club or no club? It could be the difference between the two. |
White Chargers bringing years of expertise and contacts, the capability of generating massive sums of money and getting the club back on track and heading in the right direction. That would have been just as good a investment as a lump sum being put on the table and it would have been on going and self generating eventually with a bit of luck. It would have sold a lot more season tickets also. They didn't even have the manners to pick up a phone and invite the interested party up to the club though, instead the fans forum was used to ridicule them...preferring total strangers instead.
If this motion is passed there needs to be stipulations put in place that the Trust are front and centre of every meeting with potential investors and I don't just mean the Trust Director, the Trust Chairman needs to be there also. No cloak and dagger meetings behind people's backs and the Trust have the final say on who is invited into the club. The final decision needs to be taken away from Gauge and Knight. There needs to be some give and take.
[Post edited 25 Jul 2023 17:31]
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| EGM on 17:14 - Jul 25 with 2630 views | wozzrafc |
| EGM on 17:06 - Jul 25 by Brierls |
I’m not sure how it can be viewed in any other way than in the best interests of the club. Unless I’m missing something.
Discussions with potential investors are no secret. The Trust were even forced to comment recently on a rumour going around town that the club was about to be sold. If that rumour didn’t originate from the club, where did it originate and with what motive?
It doesn’t take a genius to work out that some of the ‘potential investors’ are being viewed as not in the best interests of the club. Read between the lines of the statements made by SG & RK.
A (secured) directors loan, for the reasons stated, surely means the club aren’t as vulnerable to the threat of being forced to accept investment from an undesirable party out of desperation? |
I agree with everything there. After reading that statement it sets out the reasons why they feel there is a need for an EGM and goes some ways to play down peoples fears of their motives.
but for Christ sake why not put that statement out first!!! [Post edited 25 Jul 2023 17:16]
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| EGM on 17:18 - Jul 25 with 2584 views | Bainesy15 |
| EGM on 17:06 - Jul 25 by TalkingSutty |
White Chargers bringing years of expertise and contacts, the capability of generating massive sums of money and getting the club back on track and heading in the right direction. That would have been just as good a investment as a lump sum being put on the table and it would have been on going and self generating eventually with a bit of luck. It would have sold a lot more season tickets also. They didn't even have the manners to pick up a phone and invite the interested party up to the club though, instead the fans forum was used to ridicule them...preferring total strangers instead.
If this motion is passed there needs to be stipulations put in place that the Trust are front and centre of every meeting with potential investors and I don't just mean the Trust Director, the Trust Chairman needs to be there also. No cloak and dagger meetings behind people's backs and the Trust have the final say on who is invited into the club. The final decision needs to be taken away from Gauge and Knight. There needs to be some give and take.
[Post edited 25 Jul 2023 17:31]
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But didn't they fail to bring the one main thing that is required to invest in or buy something... money? |  | | |
| EGM on 17:22 - Jul 25 with 2557 views | D_Alien |
| EGM on 17:14 - Jul 25 by wozzrafc |
I agree with everything there. After reading that statement it sets out the reasons why they feel there is a need for an EGM and goes some ways to play down peoples fears of their motives.
but for Christ sake why not put that statement out first!!! [Post edited 25 Jul 2023 17:16]
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My first thought exactly...
It's as if they enjoy shooting themselves in the foot, and as TS has just posted, perfectly good options were not explored to their fullest extent, from which neither party came out well, but i'm sure a compromise could've been reached with the right will and intentions
And, as 442 posted, we still need the fine detail about our finances, both current and prospectively. As fans and shareholders, we're entitled to no less. It's no good asking us to take things on faith: give us the facts
[Post edited 25 Jul 2023 17:25]
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| EGM on 17:24 - Jul 25 with 2536 views | D_Alien |
| EGM on 17:18 - Jul 25 by Bainesy15 |
But didn't they fail to bring the one main thing that is required to invest in or buy something... money? |
Not enough, apparently, for a majority shareholding - but shouldn't other options have been explored? | |
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| EGM on 17:33 - Jul 25 with 2455 views | 49thseason |
I think they have done exactly what a bank would do ( if they would lend us money which they will not) or the Local Authority would do, or perhaps a Brewery offering a loan to spruce up a bar.
Noone lends money at sensible rates without some sort of collateral, check your mortgages!
It is what it is, there really isn't much of an alternative as things stand. Maybe there will be a few quid available to bring Lloyd back into the building if he isnt fixed up elsewhere. |  | | |
| EGM on 17:37 - Jul 25 with 2422 views | TalkingSutty |
| EGM on 17:18 - Jul 25 by Bainesy15 |
But didn't they fail to bring the one main thing that is required to invest in or buy something... money? |
Investment doesn't always have to be in the form of a lump sum. What about paying £25k to join the board and they all work together with Dunphy pulling the strings as Chairman and bringing in his associates to help. I would suggest just appointing Dunphy would have generated a lump sum from season ticket sales and probably sponsorship. It would mean them all working together for the good of the club and Gauge letting the former Chairman make the decisions, something that he clearly didn't want to do. Anyway, nothing was explored and the ship has sailled but Gauge and Knight now complaining about tyre kickers is a bit rich. | | | |
| EGM on 17:42 - Jul 25 with 2377 views | NorthernDale |
I think they are being honest in their response to fans concern and I can understand in the summer, the income to the club may be limited, so a bit of money in the bank may be useful.
The questions, that I would like answered are;
1. How much are they looking to borrow, if the ground is worth £3 million?
2. What guarantee do we have that they will not sell the ground without the fans approval and will the 'Morris' rule will remain place. It is essential that the ground remains a community asset.
3. Have they sought or looked at other options for loans, i.e the council for example. The council could take part or 1/3 rd ownership of the ground as part of a community asset.
4. What is the long-term business plan going forward in terms of finances and ambitions on the field.
Hopefully we can get the trust to gain more information from the board. Yes, I can understand their frustrations that the fans have not purchased more shares, but when there is a cost of living crisis, some fans may wish to buy more shares in the future, but sadly cannot at the moment. How they could have produced the letter before asking for the EGM. | | | |
| EGM on 17:49 - Jul 25 with 2341 views | HullDale |
We may not be in this desperate situation if all functions within the club were operating well. On the field, & now seemingly off the field too, the club is in the worst position it has ever been in.
Although there were years of mismanagement under the previous regime, this board need to also now accept that they are also culpable for this situation. I'm not convinced the man at the helm is the man to turn this round as quickly as it needs to - but will his rumoured ego allow him to accept offers of help?
By saving us from Morton House, they ensured that the stadium would never be leveraged, we wouldn't run up unsustainable debt, we'd wisely spend a decent playing budget, and all functions of the wider Dale business would operate efficiently and profitably.
We now have a potentially leveraged stadium, seemingly huge black holes in finances, our smallest playing budget in years with no clear saleable assets, an operation working in silo and failing across the board, and still things haven't changed. People would be forgiven for questioning the point in the hostile takeover fight when we have ended up in basically the same situation as we feared after less than 2 years? Don't get me wrong - it was right to send MH packing... its almost everything else since then that hasn't been right.
I might've missed the Trust / pitch thing, but if I haven't... were the Trust aware that the club were going to go public with that in their justification for the failure of the EGM announcement?
The forum next week needs to be in a format where questions, and follow ups, can be asked and challenged. The rumoured takeover last week, that seems to have had something about it, needs to be discussed and clarified. Is the EGM announcement now happening because a takeover failed, and the BoD were relying on that money to keep us going? Are we solvent? | | | |
| EGM on 17:50 - Jul 25 with 3177 views | Brierls |
| EGM on 17:37 - Jul 25 by TalkingSutty |
Investment doesn't always have to be in the form of a lump sum. What about paying £25k to join the board and they all work together with Dunphy pulling the strings as Chairman and bringing in his associates to help. I would suggest just appointing Dunphy would have generated a lump sum from season ticket sales and probably sponsorship. It would mean them all working together for the good of the club and Gauge letting the former Chairman make the decisions, something that he clearly didn't want to do. Anyway, nothing was explored and the ship has sailled but Gauge and Knight now complaining about tyre kickers is a bit rich. |
The ship didn’t get out of the breakers yard.
Dunphy was a tire kicker. He doesn’t have the cash. He had zero clue how much had been invested by the BoD.
This is not a Chris Dunphy thread. There have been several. Start another by all means, but for gods sake leave this one for discussion about the EGM. | | | |
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