| Is the lock down ending too soon? 04:59 - Jul 1 with 162348 views | Glyn1 |
That's basically it.
Thoughts please. [Post edited 1 Jul 2020 5:00]
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 22:34 - Aug 21 with 1951 views | Catullus |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 22:10 - Aug 20 by Dr_Winston |
I tend to think we went too far down the puritan route. We locked down everything even when the risks associated with some things were low. The rates for transmission outdoors appear to be next to nothing, but we closed down country parks, playgrounds, beer gardens, beaches and God knows what else.
The risks associated with schools appear to be minimal, yet we denied an ongoing education to millions of children and even now the repercussions of that are still being worked out with the exam grade fiasco.
If we'd shut down what had to be shut down, protected the vulnerable and let most others get on with things in a socially distant way we could have kept things going for a while.
Clusterf*ck doesn't begin to cover it. |
We didn't know about transmission rates or where was sfae so it's a bit hard to say. As we moved along and evidence became available we should have acted more quickly on the things we knew were definite.
I never agreed with closing parks/green spaces, We were told from the off that we were allowed to exercise but then they closed down the spaces big enough for us to exercise AND maintain distancing.
What we know about kids is they are least likely to catch AND spread the virus but it's not 100% guaranteed. It's hindsight again though. The virus has picked up in younger people and if there is any risk to parents it needs to be managed. I am a parent in a high risk group and my son starts comprehensive soon. I want him to go, he needs to be in school but the risks need to be managed.
We've opened pubs and there has been a glut of outbreaks centrd on pubs. Alcohol and obeying rules do not go hand in hand.
Calling it a clusterfluck is a bit harsh given that even now, with what we do know about the virus it is still here, still causing problems and killing people. Other countries are having second waves and other countries again are worried theirs will come and be even worse. Didn't the model they used say if we hadn't closed down the deaths just in the Uk could have been between 250,000-500,000? |  |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:25 - Aug 22 with 1893 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 22:34 - Aug 21 by Catullus |
We didn't know about transmission rates or where was sfae so it's a bit hard to say. As we moved along and evidence became available we should have acted more quickly on the things we knew were definite.
I never agreed with closing parks/green spaces, We were told from the off that we were allowed to exercise but then they closed down the spaces big enough for us to exercise AND maintain distancing.
What we know about kids is they are least likely to catch AND spread the virus but it's not 100% guaranteed. It's hindsight again though. The virus has picked up in younger people and if there is any risk to parents it needs to be managed. I am a parent in a high risk group and my son starts comprehensive soon. I want him to go, he needs to be in school but the risks need to be managed.
We've opened pubs and there has been a glut of outbreaks centrd on pubs. Alcohol and obeying rules do not go hand in hand.
Calling it a clusterfluck is a bit harsh given that even now, with what we do know about the virus it is still here, still causing problems and killing people. Other countries are having second waves and other countries again are worried theirs will come and be even worse. Didn't the model they used say if we hadn't closed down the deaths just in the Uk could have been between 250,000-500,000? |
100 per cent a clusterfeck.
Other countries - bar the idiot Trump in usa - did far better, our death toll is horrific.
We locked down too late.
We opened up too early.
VE celebrations were peak stupid
Cynical Tories clapping NHS
Our PM skipped 5 Cobra meetings at critical time
Billions given to mates and friend for unusable PPE
PPE preparedness was shocking
Failed to join EU procurement for PPE
Data collection shocking
Care homes abandoned, and infected people sent there
Wasted advantage of island nation
People not checked on entry for months
Lied about tests by counting posted out tests
Test and trace app failed
Scientists used as human shield
PHE scrapped as an escaped goat
How bad does it need to be ? |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:11 - Aug 22 with 1866 views | Andy1300 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 12:25 - Aug 22 by Kilkennyjack |
100 per cent a clusterfeck.
Other countries - bar the idiot Trump in usa - did far better, our death toll is horrific.
We locked down too late.
We opened up too early.
VE celebrations were peak stupid
Cynical Tories clapping NHS
Our PM skipped 5 Cobra meetings at critical time
Billions given to mates and friend for unusable PPE
PPE preparedness was shocking
Failed to join EU procurement for PPE
Data collection shocking
Care homes abandoned, and infected people sent there
Wasted advantage of island nation
People not checked on entry for months
Lied about tests by counting posted out tests
Test and trace app failed
Scientists used as human shield
PHE scrapped as an escaped goat
How bad does it need to be ? |
But it was here way before anyone realised.
It made no difference when we locked down, plenty already had the virus |  |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:26 - Aug 22 with 1861 views | Dr_Winston |
"Didn't the model they used say if we hadn't closed down the deaths just in the Uk could have been between 250,000-500,000? "
Neil Ferguson has modeled a lot of things. Doesn't seem like he gets a lot right. According to him Sweden should have had 50,000 deaths by now. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:29 - Aug 22 with 1857 views | majorraglan |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:11 - Aug 22 by Andy1300 |
But it was here way before anyone realised.
It made no difference when we locked down, plenty already had the virus |
I agree with you about it being here well before anyone realised and about plenty had the virus, but the timing was key. The government and WAG got aspects of it wrong.
There is no way the Newport Gwent Dragons game against Treviso should have been allowed to take place mid March, the Italian team would have been in the Cardiff RCT area for several days preparing for the game and there Wales Scotland match should have have been stopped well before the Friday to prevent Scottish fans from traveling down. Cheltenham should also have been pulled. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:36 - Aug 22 with 1852 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:29 - Aug 22 by majorraglan |
I agree with you about it being here well before anyone realised and about plenty had the virus, but the timing was key. The government and WAG got aspects of it wrong.
There is no way the Newport Gwent Dragons game against Treviso should have been allowed to take place mid March, the Italian team would have been in the Cardiff RCT area for several days preparing for the game and there Wales Scotland match should have have been stopped well before the Friday to prevent Scottish fans from traveling down. Cheltenham should also have been pulled. |
Why do you think that Cheltenham wasnt pulled as it should have been. Guess who was running Cheltenham racecourse. One Dido Harding who was put in charge of the failed World Beating Test, Trace and Protect which is now becoming the responsibility of local authorities and who is being placed in charge of PPE's replacement. There were thousands upon thousands at Cheltenham. The worse decision of the lot but it was one of their friends in charge so it was allowed to go ahead. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:02 - Aug 22 with 1843 views | Professor |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:26 - Aug 22 by Dr_Winston |
"Didn't the model they used say if we hadn't closed down the deaths just in the Uk could have been between 250,000-500,000? "
Neil Ferguson has modeled a lot of things. Doesn't seem like he gets a lot right. According to him Sweden should have had 50,000 deaths by now. |
But has a much greater rate than its Scandinavian neighbours- closest demographic comparison | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:04 - Aug 22 with 1840 views | Professor |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:11 - Aug 22 by Andy1300 |
But it was here way before anyone realised.
It made no difference when we locked down, plenty already had the virus |
Yes it did. For every case we had prior to lockdown another three would have been infected. If we had locked down a week earlier, we probably would of halved the mortality.
Not like we did not have prior warning. | | | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 15:32 - Aug 22 with 1829 views | Scotia |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:36 - Aug 22 by exhmrc1 |
Why do you think that Cheltenham wasnt pulled as it should have been. Guess who was running Cheltenham racecourse. One Dido Harding who was put in charge of the failed World Beating Test, Trace and Protect which is now becoming the responsibility of local authorities and who is being placed in charge of PPE's replacement. There were thousands upon thousands at Cheltenham. The worse decision of the lot but it was one of their friends in charge so it was allowed to go ahead. |
Cheltenham wasn't the only event to take place though, so I don't think the government can be accused of nepotism. Thankfully the WRU pulled the Wales v Scotland game, the fact that Liverpool v Atletico Madrid was allowed to go ahead is crazy.
With hindsight it is insane that any events of this nature happened, there was almost certainly far more unrecorded cases in March than at present and things were carrying on as normal. Absolutely crazy. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 16:13 - Aug 22 with 1817 views | exhmrc1 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 15:32 - Aug 22 by Scotia |
Cheltenham wasn't the only event to take place though, so I don't think the government can be accused of nepotism. Thankfully the WRU pulled the Wales v Scotland game, the fact that Liverpool v Atletico Madrid was allowed to go ahead is crazy.
With hindsight it is insane that any events of this nature happened, there was almost certainly far more unrecorded cases in March than at present and things were carrying on as normal. Absolutely crazy. |
It isnt nepotism that she has been put in charge of the other 2 either is it. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 16:16 - Aug 22 with 1815 views | Scotia |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 16:13 - Aug 22 by exhmrc1 |
It isnt nepotism that she has been put in charge of the other 2 either is it. |
After talk talk she probably shouldn't be in charge of anything, but that's not what I was talking about. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 19:30 - Aug 22 with 1780 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 14:04 - Aug 22 by Professor |
Yes it did. For every case we had prior to lockdown another three would have been infected. If we had locked down a week earlier, we probably would of halved the mortality.
Not like we did not have prior warning. |
Any scientific proof for that or is a just a wild guess. | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 19:50 - Aug 22 with 1786 views | Professor |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 19:30 - Aug 22 by felixstowe_jack |
Any scientific proof for that or is a just a wild guess. |
Firstly, there is little than can be proven ‘scientifically’ but I guess you are not ready for Popperian theory.
There are a few publications modelling:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.00256/full
Neil Ferguson estimates a minimum of 20,000 lives would have been saved with earlier lockdown by a week. Sir David King and independent SAGE suggest suggest as much as 75% of deaths could have been avoided. Patrick Vallance , the CSA, has admitted the advice from SAGE was to lockdown 10 days earlier.
That lockdown has worked is very clear. The sad fact is if were earlier it would have been shorter and more effective | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 20:34 - Aug 22 with 1772 views | Andy1300 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 19:50 - Aug 22 by Professor |
Firstly, there is little than can be proven ‘scientifically’ but I guess you are not ready for Popperian theory.
There are a few publications modelling:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.00256/full
Neil Ferguson estimates a minimum of 20,000 lives would have been saved with earlier lockdown by a week. Sir David King and independent SAGE suggest suggest as much as 75% of deaths could have been avoided. Patrick Vallance , the CSA, has admitted the advice from SAGE was to lockdown 10 days earlier.
That lockdown has worked is very clear. The sad fact is if were earlier it would have been shorter and more effective |
Neil Ferguson said there would be 500000 deaths, there were not and it’s not down to lockdown.
A report on the bbc website today says it will be here forever, what is the point of lockdown and all the restrictions now then? | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 20:46 - Aug 22 with 1766 views | Professor |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 20:34 - Aug 22 by Andy1300 |
Neil Ferguson said there would be 500000 deaths, there were not and it’s not down to lockdown.
A report on the bbc website today says it will be here forever, what is the point of lockdown and all the restrictions now then? |
Without lockdown his estimate was 25000-50000. With about 30000 to 60000. It’s not precise- it is a model and they are all wrong, but can be useful.
Remember this is a novel virus. In January we knew nothing.
Now we are better prepared. We are better at treating. It is not beyond the realm this is here forever. But we will develop vaccines and better therapies to mitigate its impact. Social distancing and masks are reducing the likelihood of large numbers of infections, and local lockdowns will be useful when we identify outbreaks. Expect this for a good while | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 21:26 - Aug 22 with 1749 views | Andy1300 |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 20:46 - Aug 22 by Professor |
Without lockdown his estimate was 25000-50000. With about 30000 to 60000. It’s not precise- it is a model and they are all wrong, but can be useful.
Remember this is a novel virus. In January we knew nothing.
Now we are better prepared. We are better at treating. It is not beyond the realm this is here forever. But we will develop vaccines and better therapies to mitigate its impact. Social distancing and masks are reducing the likelihood of large numbers of infections, and local lockdowns will be useful when we identify outbreaks. Expect this for a good while |
It doesn’t matter how many new cases they find, they are finding them through targeted testing.
They have already admited inflating death figures, now they have admitted inflating the figure for people in hospital with covid.
The facts are that you have over 99.5% chance of surviving the virus, it’s all been a massive overreaction, people will suffer the effects of this lockdown for many years.
Many more will die because of lockdown | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 21:40 - Aug 22 with 1738 views | Professor |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 21:26 - Aug 22 by Andy1300 |
It doesn’t matter how many new cases they find, they are finding them through targeted testing.
They have already admited inflating death figures, now they have admitted inflating the figure for people in hospital with covid.
The facts are that you have over 99.5% chance of surviving the virus, it’s all been a massive overreaction, people will suffer the effects of this lockdown for many years.
Many more will die because of lockdown |
Which is the purpose of testing- to avoid a total lockdown by targeting the controls.
Death is not the only issue. People are getting very ill, long term respiratory and neurological effects are emerging. The next year, at least is going to be different. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 17:22 - Aug 23 with 1644 views | Andy1300 |
So you are saying that the story is a lie?
There we are then!
GMP tweeted on Friday night: "Officers attended a property in #Swinton where 3 families were celebrating a child's birthday in a private garden. The homeowner has been issued with a fixed penalty notice."
As you could see from the photo on the link, they were happily participating instead of breaking it up and dining them. | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 17:26 - Aug 23 with 1639 views | Professor |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 17:22 - Aug 23 by Andy1300 |
So you are saying that the story is a lie?
There we are then!
GMP tweeted on Friday night: "Officers attended a property in #Swinton where 3 families were celebrating a child's birthday in a private garden. The homeowner has been issued with a fixed penalty notice."
As you could see from the photo on the link, they were happily participating instead of breaking it up and dining them. |
I am saying that Muslims are above the law is a lie. Which it is.
The reasons around a specific case is dependent on those involved. What is clear is that Asian men are most likely to be fined under Coronavirus regulations. | | | |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 17:26 - Aug 23 with 1638 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 17:22 - Aug 23 by Andy1300 |
So you are saying that the story is a lie?
There we are then!
GMP tweeted on Friday night: "Officers attended a property in #Swinton where 3 families were celebrating a child's birthday in a private garden. The homeowner has been issued with a fixed penalty notice."
As you could see from the photo on the link, they were happily participating instead of breaking it up and dining them. |
You literally just said they’ve been fined. Oh you meant the other party. Ignore [Post edited 23 Aug 2020 17:27]
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 22:35 - Aug 24 with 1555 views | Andy1300 |
Tell me again why masks should be worn.
What a joke!
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 11:03 - Aug 25 with 1513 views | Catullus |
Those facemasks are obviously pointless but proper facemasks are not.
Wearing a facemask reduces the amount of virus expelled. the amount of potential dose being reduced means that if you breathe it in the chances are you will have less severe problems.
The evidence has been around for a while that a larger initial viral dose causes more problems.
However, masks only work effectively if we all wear them indoors. | |
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| Is the lock down ending too soon? on 13:14 - Aug 27 with 1435 views | felixstowe_jack |
Good to see the EU trade commissioner has resigned after flying to Ireland from Belgium then attending a golf dinner completely ignoring the Irish Republic's 14 day quarantine period. When are these unelected bureaucrats that the laws apply to them. | |
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