| The NHS 11:04 - Nov 27 with 9434 views | controversial_jack |
Seems Corbyn has pulled another rabbit out of the hat.Documents that prove Boris is lying at that he and his party want to sell the NHS to US corps. |  | | |  |
| The NHS on 19:12 - Nov 27 with 1736 views | Flashberryjack |
| The NHS on 18:46 - Nov 27 by builthjack |
Johnson is the biggest liar parliament has ever seen. Even Bluey would agree with that if he is honest. |
Don't know if he's the biggest liar parliament has ever seen.
There has been, and still is a lot of competition for that title from both sides of the house over the years, Tony Blair would surely be up there. |  |
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| The NHS on 19:31 - Nov 27 with 1719 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
They are both as bad this secret dossier has been available on line for months! |  |
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| The NHS on 02:35 - Nov 28 with 1643 views | Glyn1 |
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/27/what-does-the-trade-dossier-say
The US negotiators have been very upfront about what they want, perhaps because they don't think they're doing anything wrong.
.....
What do the documents show?
The documents show that between July 2017 and July this year, trade talks between the UK and US have covered the NHS, drug pricing and patents, the pharmaceutical industry and medical devices, in the context of the future trade landscape between the two countries.
US trade officials explained clearly their approach to trade talks, described as “negative listing”, which involves starting the talks with nothing off the table, the assumption being that total market access is the starting point for any discussions.
The UK has some of the lowest drug prices in Europe. A key reason for that is the existence of the National Institute of Health and Care Excellence (Nice), which Tony Blair’s Labour government set up in 1999. It is an independent expert body that assesses evidence and issues guidance to the NHS and health professionals about which drugs, types of surgery and other forms of treatment benefit patients and are worth spending money on. As such it determines what drugs do and do not represent value for money for NHS bodies in England and Wales to buy to give to patients.
Nice’s judgments help keep prices down by capping what the NHS can spend on them. So does the NHS’s status as a bulk buyer of drugs, and EU-wide rules on patents.
The minutes of the trade talks show the Trump administration and US pharmaceutical interests want the British government to dismantle the safeguards that protect the NHS from paying high prices for drugs. (Drugs in America cost two and a half times what they cost in the UK.)
They want, for example, “full market access” for US drugs, which would greatly limit Nice’s ability to decide which medicines patients can receive. They also want future prices to be “market-derived” or “competitive”, which again would lead to Nice being marginalised.
Crucially, US officials want longer patents for American drugs, which would boost their makers’ profits and limit the NHS’s scope to buy much cheaper generic versions. They have suggested in the talks a number of changes, all of which — if agreed — would benefit pharma firms financially. |  |
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| The NHS on 02:42 - Nov 28 with 1640 views | Glyn1 |
| The NHS on 12:51 - Nov 27 by felixstowe_jack |
Very simple you length the patent the cost of the drugs go DOWN. NHS saves money. |
That's absolute bullsh*t by you, or maybe just wishful thinking by you. The Americans are negotiating BOTH to raise the price of medicines AND to extend the length of the patents. That makes it a win / win situation for them.
Just for the sake of argument, assume that what I've just written is correct - how would you feel about that? | |
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| The NHS on 11:21 - Nov 28 with 1507 views | Catullus |
| The NHS on 02:42 - Nov 28 by Glyn1 |
That's absolute bullsh*t by you, or maybe just wishful thinking by you. The Americans are negotiating BOTH to raise the price of medicines AND to extend the length of the patents. That makes it a win / win situation for them.
Just for the sake of argument, assume that what I've just written is correct - how would you feel about that? |
Any sensible person woukld be outraged by the NHS being up for sale but surely, if Bojo doesn't want the mob to hang, draw and quarter him he'll stand by his promise that it's not?
Obviously Bojo's record for lying gives us cause for concern, it's less concerning though when you distrust Corbyn just as much! | |
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| The NHS on 11:37 - Nov 28 with 1494 views | Legend83 |
| The NHS on 02:42 - Nov 28 by Glyn1 |
That's absolute bullsh*t by you, or maybe just wishful thinking by you. The Americans are negotiating BOTH to raise the price of medicines AND to extend the length of the patents. That makes it a win / win situation for them.
Just for the sake of argument, assume that what I've just written is correct - how would you feel about that? |
So just because the US want their cake and more you think the UK will just roll-over?
It only makes it a win / win for them if the UK say yeah, put up our prices and for longer and while you are at it wipe us out of electoral history.
Fantasy. | | | |
| The NHS on 11:41 - Nov 28 with 1487 views | bluey_the_blue |
Ah, NHS clearly dead then.
Like the last 942 times Labour have come out with "X hours to save NHS" claims. | | | |
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| The NHS on 12:06 - Nov 28 with 1475 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| The NHS on 12:39 - Nov 27 by Kerouac |
Of course, and why would he have a f*cking scooby about the real world.
Jeremy Corbyn's CV;
- Grows up in a well to do family, father a millionaire, goes to a private school
- Fails at school
- "Achieves" two 'E' grades at 'A' Level (he should have got a trade, if he could summon a work ethic)
- Goes to University, argues with his lecturers (claiming he knows better), drops out.
- Goes to work for a Trade Union
- Becomes an MP for the Labour Party
- Spends decades on the backbenches arguing we should give Marxism another chance, attacking anything the UK stands for.
- Is elected leader of the Labour Party
The bloke has never made a £1 in his pathetic life.
All he has to sell to the electorate is;
poor me, poor you, we deserve far more don't we, we'll get those mean rich people (who have taken responsibility and worked for a living, which makes a profit, which pays the f*cking tax, to keep us in the lifestyle we have become accustomed to!) to pay for it...we'll create heaven on earth.
C-U-N-T. |
You forgot one of the biggest ones.
His whole career he has opposed being in the EU.
His support of Remain makes him a total hypocrite as well as a liar. | | | |
| The NHS on 12:08 - Nov 28 with 1474 views | Ebo |
| The NHS on 11:41 - Nov 28 by bluey_the_blue |
Ah, NHS clearly dead then.
Like the last 942 times Labour have come out with "X hours to save NHS" claims. |
It's not just the NHS though, food standards are a big part of this as well. The US don't even put warnings on their food labels as they think people will not buy that particular product.
Welcome to obesity city, as long as you have the correct health insurance you will get treated with open arms. See the cycle? Feed people crap, they get ill, big pharma get your money. Rinse repeat. |  |
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| The NHS on 12:21 - Nov 28 with 1467 views | bluey_the_blue |
| The NHS on 12:08 - Nov 28 by Ebo |
It's not just the NHS though, food standards are a big part of this as well. The US don't even put warnings on their food labels as they think people will not buy that particular product.
Welcome to obesity city, as long as you have the correct health insurance you will get treated with open arms. See the cycle? Feed people crap, they get ill, big pharma get your money. Rinse repeat. |
Yes, yes, yes, so you claim.
Maybe you can explain obesity in UK with errm free NHS... | | | |
| The NHS on 12:26 - Nov 28 with 1464 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| The NHS on 12:08 - Nov 28 by Ebo |
It's not just the NHS though, food standards are a big part of this as well. The US don't even put warnings on their food labels as they think people will not buy that particular product.
Welcome to obesity city, as long as you have the correct health insurance you will get treated with open arms. See the cycle? Feed people crap, they get ill, big pharma get your money. Rinse repeat. |
Have you never heard of "Free Will", "Personal Choice", "Taking Responsibility".
You don't have to buy it and you don't have to eat it. | | | |
| The NHS on 13:03 - Nov 28 with 1443 views | Glyn1 |
Seriously? A post from thirteen (13) years ago is the best defence of Johnson that you've got? | |
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| The NHS on 13:08 - Nov 28 with 1440 views | Glyn1 |
| The NHS on 11:37 - Nov 28 by Legend83 |
So just because the US want their cake and more you think the UK will just roll-over?
It only makes it a win / win for them if the UK say yeah, put up our prices and for longer and while you are at it wipe us out of electoral history.
Fantasy. |
"So just because the US want their cake and more you think the UK will just roll-over?"
YES. We're no longer in a good bargaining position because we need a trade deal with the US more than they do. | |
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| The NHS on 13:14 - Nov 28 with 1433 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| The NHS on 13:03 - Nov 28 by Glyn1 |
Seriously? A post from thirteen (13) years ago is the best defence of Johnson that you've got? |
Whatever gave you the impression that I am defending Johnson.
I was pointing out that the Party that should be most supportive of the NHS as envisaged by Bevan actually has not been and may not be now. | | | |
| The NHS on 13:27 - Nov 28 with 1414 views | Legend83 |
| The NHS on 13:08 - Nov 28 by Glyn1 |
"So just because the US want their cake and more you think the UK will just roll-over?"
YES. We're no longer in a good bargaining position because we need a trade deal with the US more than they do. |
New Zealand and Australia probably also needed a trade deal with the US more than the US needed it too and guess what, no adverse drug pricing provisions in those.
The voting public will never see the NHS as anything other than sacrosanct (despite no other nations trying to emulate it...) hence why no party that wants to not be wiped from electoral history will entertain a bad deal with the US on this specific area. | | | |
| The NHS on 13:59 - Nov 28 with 1399 views | Glyn1 |
| The NHS on 13:27 - Nov 28 by Legend83 |
New Zealand and Australia probably also needed a trade deal with the US more than the US needed it too and guess what, no adverse drug pricing provisions in those.
The voting public will never see the NHS as anything other than sacrosanct (despite no other nations trying to emulate it...) hence why no party that wants to not be wiped from electoral history will entertain a bad deal with the US on this specific area. |
"New Zealand and Australia probably also needed a trade deal with the US more than the US needed it too and guess what, no adverse drug pricing provisions in those."
I'd prefer not to guess, so what's your proof for that? | |
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| The NHS on 14:15 - Nov 28 with 1390 views | Legend83 |
| The NHS on 13:59 - Nov 28 by Glyn1 |
"New Zealand and Australia probably also needed a trade deal with the US more than the US needed it too and guess what, no adverse drug pricing provisions in those."
I'd prefer not to guess, so what's your proof for that? |
https://fullfact.org/election-2019/is-the-nhs-up-for-sale/ | | | |
| The NHS on 03:23 - Nov 29 with 1304 views | Glyn1 |
Ta. A 19 word sentence about Australia with nothing to back it up. That's a scary article though.
Thanks for this, the website looks interesting. | |
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| The NHS on 04:57 - Nov 29 with 1292 views | Glyn1 |
Is it correct that there are ads on US television for medicines? People buy meds based on a 30-second ad? Cannot be true.
On the one hand, my doctor says I should take these meds. On the other hand, a cute talking kitten says I should take some other meds. Tough choice. [Post edited 29 Nov 2019 5:10]
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| The NHS on 12:17 - Nov 29 with 1221 views | Legend83 |
| The NHS on 03:23 - Nov 29 by Glyn1 |
Ta. A 19 word sentence about Australia with nothing to back it up. That's a scary article though.
Thanks for this, the website looks interesting. |
For balance though Labour say they are referencing Dr Hill to support their claims about what would happen if the Tories "sold off" the NHS but this includes the following assumptions:
- all current US sourced drugs would go up from current NIICE sourced prices to full insurance-backed US prices;
- that we would source all our drugs from the US (we currently only source around 20% I believe)
Full Fact is a good read. | | | |
| The NHS on 13:51 - Nov 29 with 1183 views | Legend83 |
I said it was a good read, not that it wasn't unbiased. | | | |
| The NHS on 19:37 - Nov 29 with 1136 views | majorraglan |
An interesting article in the Guardian about rationalising availability of some treatments.
My old man was diagnosed with prostrate cancer 16 years ago after going to a well men’s clinic at his GP, he’d not had any problems or issues and the blood test picked it up early doors. He underwent radiotherapy treatment at Singleton and was cured because it was identified at an early stage. If that’s the prostrate cancer test that’s being stopped it’s a scandal.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/29/revealed-nhs-plans-to-ration-34- [Post edited 29 Nov 2019 19:37]
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