| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" 22:38 - Dec 1 with 11643 views | Davillin |
I begin with an admittedly long preface.
For most of my 81 years, starting during World War II, I have held Britain in the highest esteem. I have studied British literature and history while both a student and a teacher in university. For years, I faithfully read The Manchester Guardian almost daily [on paper in the library at the university where I taught]; For years I was subscribed to Punch and a couple of British motorcycle magazines; I owned six British motorcycles; and supported a Welsh football club.
Over the past 30 years or thereabouts I have taken my annual holiday in Europe. Except for visiting old friends in The Netherlands, France, and Italy, they have all been to the U.K. , from Inverness to Hayling island, and from sea to sea.
Until recently, the "special relationship" between our two countries has been a matter of deep satisfaction and some pride. Without identifying it as such, I considered both Britain and the British automatic and mutually faithful friends [Please, those who will be tempted to mock those statements, move on without comment, thanks.]
I believe firmly that the overwhelming majority [probably close to "totality"] of Americans have the same attitudes. Personally, I have never heard a single negative comment from an American about Britain and the British.
I discount the boorish, but vocally silent, incivility of the previous President, for example, regarding the bust of Churchill [which the present President corrected as one of his first acts] and for worse treatment of visiting British dignitaries. It is small consolation that the previous president has treated fellow Americans worse on occasion.
To my major point.
In recent times, it is clear to me, the attitude of many [too many] Brits toward the United States has declined precipitously, too often to downright insulting hatred. Note that my lifetime study of philosophy enables me to put that all aside as something over which I have no control.
However, when that reaches British persons of high political rank and affects what I consider vital aspects of our countries' relationship, it becomes worrisome at least. That is full upon us now.
Here we have a British Prime Minister publically and insultingly attacking an American President for "retweeting" references to years-old activities of Islamic terrorists committing unspeakable acts. Note that that retweet has not caused one person to be tortured or killed. This, while she ignores the most vicious contemporary attacks by Islamic terrorists on her own citizens and those of the Continent.
I cannot help wondering whose political ass she is kissing -- from the Islamic terrorists or Islamic rulers, to the powers that be in the European Union, mollifying them about BREXIT?
Is she doing this so forcefully to make it difficult, if not impossible, to reach a new bilateral agreement with the United States on trade and economic issues -- an agreement which would work decidedly to the benefit of the U.K. -- pointedly to one no longer ruled by the despots of the E.U.?
Or am I missing the point completely because she is, with too much subtlety for me, actually working against the very BREXIT result she is legally bound to bring into being?
I am fully aware that many [most? all?] of you do not see the powerful influence of your anti-Trump and increasingly anti-American media, but I live with it every single day here in the states, so it is far easier for me to see the same bias -- and always with the same words telling the same falsehoods -- over there.
Candidly, when I first heard of your Prime Minister's rant about my President's "retweet," I thought that she did not have her priorities in order -- the retweet of videos which show the coldest truths about terrorism compared with the endless stream of even worse terroristic behaviour all over Europe -- but now I have to wonder whether she knows full well what she is doing, and that is killing BREXIT, or at least working to get the U.K.'s relationship with the E.U. back in line with the European globalist power structure which she has supported in the past. That would entail stopping the possibility of a far-reaching trade agreement with the unspoken assumed enemy of both the E.U. and a new global system.
We're knee-deep in shit with no bottom on the bucket we're all standing in, and too many powerful forces keep shoveling more in. Or having their puppets doing it for them.
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 13:32 - Dec 3 with 2193 views | Cottsy |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 09:34 - Dec 3 by Lohengrin |
I was replying to Cotts's "little thought experiment." it's as germane as it gets.  |
Except that it’s not, is it? Unless The Guardian has recently written an article on Paul Golding calling him a hero of our time that I’ve missed?
You’ve tried to be a bit too clever when my post was very simple, if the thought of a POTUS, who was contemporary to the Nazis, retweeting or legitimising the views of that individual or group would make you feel uncomfortable then you should probably feel the same way about the current, actual POTUS retweeting and legitimising the views of an actual neo-nazi and neo-nazi organisation. |  |
| If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys? |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 13:50 - Dec 3 with 2164 views | exiledclaseboy |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 13:22 - Dec 3 by Highjack |
If we banned world leaders from coming because some people don't like them and their politics we'd never have a state visit ever again. We'd definitely have to kick May and corbyn out too which wouldn't be a bad thing. |
He can come here in his capacity as “president” without it being a state visit. |  |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 13:51 - Dec 3 with 2164 views | Highjack |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 13:32 - Dec 3 by Cottsy |
Except that it’s not, is it? Unless The Guardian has recently written an article on Paul Golding calling him a hero of our time that I’ve missed?
You’ve tried to be a bit too clever when my post was very simple, if the thought of a POTUS, who was contemporary to the Nazis, retweeting or legitimising the views of that individual or group would make you feel uncomfortable then you should probably feel the same way about the current, actual POTUS retweeting and legitimising the views of an actual neo-nazi and neo-nazi organisation. |
Trump should absolutely be criticised for retweeting this shyte. Any promotion of or association with a radical group involved with extremist or violent views should be condemned in the strongest possible way.
Unless it's corbyn and Hamas/Hezbollah obviously. Then it's radio silence as usual. |  |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 13:57 - Dec 3 with 2157 views | Lohengrin |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 13:32 - Dec 3 by Cottsy |
Except that it’s not, is it? Unless The Guardian has recently written an article on Paul Golding calling him a hero of our time that I’ve missed?
You’ve tried to be a bit too clever when my post was very simple, if the thought of a POTUS, who was contemporary to the Nazis, retweeting or legitimising the views of that individual or group would make you feel uncomfortable then you should probably feel the same way about the current, actual POTUS retweeting and legitimising the views of an actual neo-nazi and neo-nazi organisation. |
So you believe Trump actually knew who the mad Fransen is? Bear in mind too that when our own Prime Minister put out some sort of a communique to say he shouldn't have done that the insomniac Trumpster fired off a 'tweet' not to Downing Street but to some bemused recipient by the name of Theresa May in Nottinghamshire. I'm not making that up, either!
Legitimised? Forgive my inability to do anything but laugh at all this and my total inability to believe that Trump actually 'thinks' about almost anything he does. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 14:13 - Dec 3 with 2122 views | exiledclaseboy |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 13:57 - Dec 3 by Lohengrin |
So you believe Trump actually knew who the mad Fransen is? Bear in mind too that when our own Prime Minister put out some sort of a communique to say he shouldn't have done that the insomniac Trumpster fired off a 'tweet' not to Downing Street but to some bemused recipient by the name of Theresa May in Nottinghamshire. I'm not making that up, either!
Legitimised? Forgive my inability to do anything but laugh at all this and my total inability to believe that Trump actually 'thinks' about almost anything he does. |
You could sum up this entire thread in one sentence:
“trump is a f*cking idiot”. [Post edited 3 Dec 2017 14:13]
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 14:14 - Dec 3 with 2119 views | londonlisa2001 |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 13:57 - Dec 3 by Lohengrin |
So you believe Trump actually knew who the mad Fransen is? Bear in mind too that when our own Prime Minister put out some sort of a communique to say he shouldn't have done that the insomniac Trumpster fired off a 'tweet' not to Downing Street but to some bemused recipient by the name of Theresa May in Nottinghamshire. I'm not making that up, either!
Legitimised? Forgive my inability to do anything but laugh at all this and my total inability to believe that Trump actually 'thinks' about almost anything he does. |
I've avoided commenting on this thread as it barely seems worth legitimising the inane, factually incorrect wittering of a bigot by responding to his ill-informed drivel, but you are missing the point entirely Lohengrin.
It's not important in many ways whether the orange idiot knows who Britain First are.
It is profoundly important that his hatred towards Moslems is such that he's prepared to gleefully jump on any possible way of stoking up that hatred in others. Including sharing false, unverified propaganda and also being quite phenomenally contemptuous towards the Prime Minister of a supposed 'friend'.
He brings nothing but shame to his country as do those that voted for him and continue to support him. |  | | |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 14:27 - Dec 3 with 2107 views | Lohengrin |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 14:14 - Dec 3 by londonlisa2001 |
I've avoided commenting on this thread as it barely seems worth legitimising the inane, factually incorrect wittering of a bigot by responding to his ill-informed drivel, but you are missing the point entirely Lohengrin.
It's not important in many ways whether the orange idiot knows who Britain First are.
It is profoundly important that his hatred towards Moslems is such that he's prepared to gleefully jump on any possible way of stoking up that hatred in others. Including sharing false, unverified propaganda and also being quite phenomenally contemptuous towards the Prime Minister of a supposed 'friend'.
He brings nothing but shame to his country as do those that voted for him and continue to support him. |
Now you see Trump in a sinister light and I'll allow you are far from alone in that, Lisa, but just drawing on Clase's post above a mate in work made the comment yesterday that Trump was "the best stand-up on the circuit."
Is that the part you find most frightening? [Post edited 3 Dec 2017 14:29]
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 14:31 - Dec 3 with 2102 views | exiledclaseboy |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 14:27 - Dec 3 by Lohengrin |
Now you see Trump in a sinister light and I'll allow you are far from alone in that, Lisa, but just drawing on Clase's post above a mate in work made the comment yesterday that Trump was "the best stand-up on the circuit."
Is that the part you find most frightening? [Post edited 3 Dec 2017 14:29]
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I didn’t mean to make light if it though. The fact that he holds the most powerful office in the western world is f*cking terrifying when you actually think about it properly. | |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 14:49 - Dec 3 with 2091 views | Lohengrin |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 14:31 - Dec 3 by exiledclaseboy |
I didn’t mean to make light if it though. The fact that he holds the most powerful office in the western world is f*cking terrifying when you actually think about it properly. |
I don't know, Clase? It's a bit like hearing ominous music rise to a crescendo then seeing the curtain pulled back and Tommy Cooper standing there.
A word on Britain First too, if I may? When I read terms like 'neo-nazi organisation' I conjure up images of James Mason in The Boys from Brazil. Quiet ,lethal, frighteningly competent but then I think, half a mo', this is Paul and Freyda we're talking about here. The Sid and Nancy of minuscule, fringe irrelevance, FFS!  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 15:00 - Dec 3 with 2077 views | exiledclaseboy |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 14:49 - Dec 3 by Lohengrin |
I don't know, Clase? It's a bit like hearing ominous music rise to a crescendo then seeing the curtain pulled back and Tommy Cooper standing there.
A word on Britain First too, if I may? When I read terms like 'neo-nazi organisation' I conjure up images of James Mason in The Boys from Brazil. Quiet ,lethal, frighteningly competent but then I think, half a mo', this is Paul and Freyda we're talking about here. The Sid and Nancy of minuscule, fringe irrelevance, FFS! |
Again I don’t disagree. Golding is a thug who is essentially of no relevance. But there’s something insidious about the way Britain First expertly utilises social media to spread its lies and messages of hate. They dress it up in a cloak of patriotism and reasonableness that attracts idiots to spread the messages even wider. Idiots like trump. | |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 15:01 - Dec 3 with 2076 views | TheResurrection |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 14:49 - Dec 3 by Lohengrin |
I don't know, Clase? It's a bit like hearing ominous music rise to a crescendo then seeing the curtain pulled back and Tommy Cooper standing there.
A word on Britain First too, if I may? When I read terms like 'neo-nazi organisation' I conjure up images of James Mason in The Boys from Brazil. Quiet ,lethal, frighteningly competent but then I think, half a mo', this is Paul and Freyda we're talking about here. The Sid and Nancy of minuscule, fringe irrelevance, FFS! |
Irrelevance? To you maybe, when it suits your purpose to say so, to the few million fackwits who follow them online and elsewhere with your warped sense of social and ethnic cleansing, it's anything but. |  |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 15:30 - Dec 3 with 2062 views | Lohengrin |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 15:01 - Dec 3 by TheResurrection |
Irrelevance? To you maybe, when it suits your purpose to say so, to the few million fackwits who follow them online and elsewhere with your warped sense of social and ethnic cleansing, it's anything but. |
I find myself wondering what 'purpose' it would serve for me to lie and say they were marvelous? I keep wondering and coming up blank?
Social and ethnic cleansing. You've won yourself two Momentum gold stars right there.... now that's Box Office!  | |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" on 15:55 - Dec 3 with 2032 views | acejack3065 |
As I said in the other thread, how can ignorance be an excuse for the President of the USA?
The truth is he's willing to use lies to spread anti muslim sentiment for his own political ends. He's courted white supremacists and even employed them in his own administration. Everyone who does not fit into that "acceptable face of white" is a second class citizen, with less rights and worth than those who are "acceptable."
If you've got no problem with that then f**k you I guess.
Trump wants his opponents to think he's a joke. If they don't take him seriously then they won't take his words and actions seriously. The events last 12 months have shown that his brand of "white supremacy" is very much a danger to free and democratic society. |  | | |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 15:58 - Dec 3 with 2031 views | Highjack |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 13:57 - Dec 3 by Lohengrin |
So you believe Trump actually knew who the mad Fransen is? Bear in mind too that when our own Prime Minister put out some sort of a communique to say he shouldn't have done that the insomniac Trumpster fired off a 'tweet' not to Downing Street but to some bemused recipient by the name of Theresa May in Nottinghamshire. I'm not making that up, either!
Legitimised? Forgive my inability to do anything but laugh at all this and my total inability to believe that Trump actually 'thinks' about almost anything he does. |
I'm not down with the kids, and therefore I am not on the Twitter. But if trump is seeing tweets from jayda whatshertits does this mean he's following her? Or has he just randomly seen the tweet, grunted "boobies" and smashed the retweet button with his fist? | |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" on 16:01 - Dec 3 with 2027 views | Lohengrin |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" on 15:55 - Dec 3 by acejack3065 |
As I said in the other thread, how can ignorance be an excuse for the President of the USA?
The truth is he's willing to use lies to spread anti muslim sentiment for his own political ends. He's courted white supremacists and even employed them in his own administration. Everyone who does not fit into that "acceptable face of white" is a second class citizen, with less rights and worth than those who are "acceptable."
If you've got no problem with that then f**k you I guess.
Trump wants his opponents to think he's a joke. If they don't take him seriously then they won't take his words and actions seriously. The events last 12 months have shown that his brand of "white supremacy" is very much a danger to free and democratic society. |
On the subject of 'free and democratic' have your read Hattersley in today's Observer, Ace? | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 16:02 - Dec 3 with 2024 views | Lohengrin |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 15:58 - Dec 3 by Highjack |
I'm not down with the kids, and therefore I am not on the Twitter. But if trump is seeing tweets from jayda whatshertits does this mean he's following her? Or has he just randomly seen the tweet, grunted "boobies" and smashed the retweet button with his fist? |
The smart money's on the grunting, High. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" on 16:12 - Dec 3 with 2008 views | acejack3065 |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" on 16:01 - Dec 3 by Lohengrin |
On the subject of 'free and democratic' have your read Hattersley in today's Observer, Ace? |
negative, I don't buy the Sundays because I'm a tight, skint millennial. | | | |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" on 16:15 - Dec 3 with 1999 views | Lohengrin |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" on 16:12 - Dec 3 by acejack3065 |
negative, I don't buy the Sundays because I'm a tight, skint millennial. |
Pfft! bloody kids!  | |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 16:32 - Dec 3 with 1983 views | londonlisa2001 |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 14:27 - Dec 3 by Lohengrin |
Now you see Trump in a sinister light and I'll allow you are far from alone in that, Lisa, but just drawing on Clase's post above a mate in work made the comment yesterday that Trump was "the best stand-up on the circuit."
Is that the part you find most frightening? [Post edited 3 Dec 2017 14:29]
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That's because I'd wager your mate at work isn't a Moslem and is therefore unaffected by it.
I assume you understand that this man does have the ability to take actions that both directly and indirectly affect ordinary people just living their ordinary lives and wanting the same bit of peace and quiet to do that as everyone else has.
Dismissing it all as the work of a clown is much easier if your own life isn't made worse.
His actions and beliefs legitimise hate. There is no getting away from that. And this sort of propaganda results in the gradual dehumanising of people that are different. And when people are seen as 'less human' than us, people like Trump can do whatever they want towards them, without fear of reprisal from his own support.
You perhaps don't care, as you have a bizarre belief that they are 'less' than you anyway. You alluded to that a week or so ago when talking of the unique morality of Christian culture.
I do care. And I find it frightening that Trump doesn't. And I find it frightening that you don't.
We never seem to learn. | | | |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" on 16:45 - Dec 3 with 1977 views | Drizzy |
The Brylcreem bigot has graced us with his presence once again. This time trivialising the advocacy of far-right hate groups. Funny, that.
I'm sure he'll continue to dance around the point with obscure literary references (we get it, you passed the 11-plus) but his real views are easily seen behind the bemusingly charming veneer. You'd think a man of such weighty intellect would have achieved something beyond menial labour.
I suppose it's all a bit of a joke to someone, on a diet of butter and cigarettes, won't be around to see the consequences anyway. |  |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" on 17:01 - Dec 3 with 1963 views | Lohengrin |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" on 16:45 - Dec 3 by Drizzy |
The Brylcreem bigot has graced us with his presence once again. This time trivialising the advocacy of far-right hate groups. Funny, that.
I'm sure he'll continue to dance around the point with obscure literary references (we get it, you passed the 11-plus) but his real views are easily seen behind the bemusingly charming veneer. You'd think a man of such weighty intellect would have achieved something beyond menial labour.
I suppose it's all a bit of a joke to someone, on a diet of butter and cigarettes, won't be around to see the consequences anyway. |
Thanks you, Drizz. I enjoyed reading your contribution, as always.
Alas! I can't hang around I'm off to perform another scintillating night of the menial labour you describe. Time was when you lefties sang songs and eulogised the people I work with and the industry they embody.
....but we're not in Kansas any more, are we Comrade?  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about "the retweet" on 17:06 - Dec 3 with 1958 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
Some light relief
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| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 17:47 - Dec 3 with 1935 views | acejack3065 |
| A less biased look at P.M. May's fuss about on 16:32 - Dec 3 by londonlisa2001 |
That's because I'd wager your mate at work isn't a Moslem and is therefore unaffected by it.
I assume you understand that this man does have the ability to take actions that both directly and indirectly affect ordinary people just living their ordinary lives and wanting the same bit of peace and quiet to do that as everyone else has.
Dismissing it all as the work of a clown is much easier if your own life isn't made worse.
His actions and beliefs legitimise hate. There is no getting away from that. And this sort of propaganda results in the gradual dehumanising of people that are different. And when people are seen as 'less human' than us, people like Trump can do whatever they want towards them, without fear of reprisal from his own support.
You perhaps don't care, as you have a bizarre belief that they are 'less' than you anyway. You alluded to that a week or so ago when talking of the unique morality of Christian culture.
I do care. And I find it frightening that Trump doesn't. And I find it frightening that you don't.
We never seem to learn. |
This. | | | |
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