| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! 10:51 - Feb 20 with 7913 views | NOTRAC |
The present company that was granted a fifty year lease to run the Liberty Stadium on behalf of Swansea City, the Ospreys, and the Council is Swansea City Management Company reg number 05176687.
Three of the directors representing Swansea City in this Company are Huw Jenkins,Chris Pearlman (appointed 19/12/16) and a certain L A John Dineen!
The current set up of the Company appears to be very much in Swansea City's favour.
Of gate receipts collected by the Company of £5.130380 in the last published accounts to 31st May 2015, the total charged by the company amounted to only £306468. Even with an apparent charge to the Premier Club of £340112 ,these are not substantial charges considering the Company has to pay for the upkeep of the ground and facilities etc. The Company also receives income from the Ospreys of £73695 on collected turnover of £608396.(Incidentally this amount was erroneously shown in note 26 of the Association accounts by Deloittes as being the football clubs payment when in the Stadium accounts it is shown as Osprey gate collection receipts.)
My point is that the Stadium Management Company represents a very good deal at present forSwansea city Football Club.
Is this agreement now going to be scuppered (and under the terms of the lease it can only be done with the agreement of the Club,the Ospreys and the Council) , because we are represented by Dineen,Jenkins and Pearlman. We know the first two have put their own financial interests in front of the club's by their deviousness over the share deal.Pearlman obviously will have the American investors best interests foremost.
Are we being stitched up on this. |  |
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 10:57 - Feb 20 with 6847 views | waynekerr55 |
My first question would be around the SCMC - do their AoA insist that directors should hold a certain position within it's organisation? Pre-sale there would be no issue with Dineen being in the position that he is, post sale now he isn't a director so why does he still hold this position???
Also - what remuneration do directors of said company receive? [Post edited 20 Feb 2017 11:01]
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 10:59 - Feb 20 with 6835 views | perchrockjack |
Jeez
Another day ruined
Can we trust anybody in Swansea to do the right thing or is it a story of greed, ineptitude and self interest | |
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:05 - Feb 20 with 6809 views | jojaca |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 10:59 - Feb 20 by perchrockjack |
Jeez
Another day ruined
Can we trust anybody in Swansea to do the right thing or is it a story of greed, ineptitude and self interest |
In Huw we trust...... |  |
| Even when you know, you never know? |
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:07 - Feb 20 with 6799 views | perchrockjack |
Huw who | |
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:08 - Feb 20 with 6795 views | waynekerr55 |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:05 - Feb 20 by jojaca |
In Huw we trust...... |
Not a sentence heard by wholesale sellers of gutters, fascia or roofing felt  | |
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:12 - Feb 20 with 6775 views | Joe_bradshaw |
Unfortunately they are still chairman and vice chairman and shareholders so it's not surprising that they are still representing the club particularly with discussions over the stadium because they know everyone involved.
I'm not defending the situation but it is what it is. We're still a very long way from seeing the back of them. |  |
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:17 - Feb 20 with 6755 views | monmouth |
As the op said yesterday, the Trust needs to be all over this, representing the long term interests of the club and its supporters and exhorting the council to lock that interest in. |  |
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:36 - Feb 20 with 6702 views | waynekerr55 |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:17 - Feb 20 by monmouth |
As the op said yesterday, the Trust needs to be all over this, representing the long term interests of the club and its supporters and exhorting the council to lock that interest in. |
I think they are to be honest. | |
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:37 - Feb 20 with 6702 views | dobjack2 |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:12 - Feb 20 by Joe_bradshaw |
Unfortunately they are still chairman and vice chairman and shareholders so it's not surprising that they are still representing the club particularly with discussions over the stadium because they know everyone involved.
I'm not defending the situation but it is what it is. We're still a very long way from seeing the back of them. |
Whilst they are still of use/worth to the majority owners your last sentance is unfortunately only too true. | | | |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:42 - Feb 20 with 6690 views | NOTRAC |
Scenario of events.
Money lent to Swansea by American Investors.
Cash sum paid to Ospreys and Council.
New lease (or sale - I wouldn't rule that out) drawn up.
New Lease revalued for borrowing purposes.
Football club goes into substantially increased debt as a result.
Dineen remaining share bought by Amercan investors.
Jenkins five remaining shares bought by American investors.
Jenkins and Dineen ride into the sunset.
Trusts share percentage decreased substantially by loan/equity transfer.
Club , which now includes the ground/lease sold for substantial profit to ? | |
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:44 - Feb 20 with 6680 views | waynekerr55 |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:42 - Feb 20 by NOTRAC |
Scenario of events.
Money lent to Swansea by American Investors.
Cash sum paid to Ospreys and Council.
New lease (or sale - I wouldn't rule that out) drawn up.
New Lease revalued for borrowing purposes.
Football club goes into substantially increased debt as a result.
Dineen remaining share bought by Amercan investors.
Jenkins five remaining shares bought by American investors.
Jenkins and Dineen ride into the sunset.
Trusts share percentage decreased substantially by loan/equity transfer.
Club , which now includes the ground/lease sold for substantial profit to ? |
Well I've heard that said owners aren't interested in buying the remaining shares as they have what they need, that being the voting rights. | |
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 12:00 - Feb 20 with 6634 views | NOTRAC |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:44 - Feb 20 by waynekerr55 |
Well I've heard that said owners aren't interested in buying the remaining shares as they have what they need, that being the voting rights. |
Think again about what I am saying. | |
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 12:14 - Feb 20 with 6582 views | swancity |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:36 - Feb 20 by waynekerr55 |
I think they are to be honest. |
They're building bridges mun | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 12:36 - Feb 20 with 6503 views | Vetchfielder |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:17 - Feb 20 by monmouth |
As the op said yesterday, the Trust needs to be all over this, representing the long term interests of the club and its supporters and exhorting the council to lock that interest in. |
Absolutely spot on 100%
Message to Swansea City Council/Councillors: don't trust any of the sell out directors of SCFC and please protect our future interests
Message to Ospreys reps on the stadium company: don't trust any of the sell out directors of SCFC
Message to the Trust board: you already know not to trust them so please deal directly with the Council to ensure that safeguards are in place to stop selling the stadium on to some other company in future. Preferably obtain some sort of clause which gives the Trust a veto on any future sale. |  |
| Proud to have been one of the 231 |
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 12:43 - Feb 20 with 6483 views | builthjack |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:07 - Feb 20 by perchrockjack |
Huw who |
Peek a boo |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 14:02 - Feb 20 with 6338 views | EasternJack |
If the trust are effective, proactive and independent then there should be very little to fear. Unfortunately the track record on each of these traits is not good.
They need to think outside the box. They are shareholders of the club. They don't work for the club. There are multiple routes to achieving the Trust's aim that doesn't necessarily involve the Club route.
In the above example, there is nothing stopping the Trust to engage the council directly to lobby them to include terms in any agreement with the club that addresses the Trust's objectives (e.g. restricted usage of land for sporting purposes, restricted usage of debt for development, restricted usage of 3rd party sub-letting as a way to extract cash from the club by the americans etc)
Unfortunately it still feels like the Trust prefers to influence from within - that hasn't worked out too well so far. |  |
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 14:35 - Feb 20 with 6276 views | Nookiejack |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:42 - Feb 20 by NOTRAC |
Scenario of events.
Money lent to Swansea by American Investors.
Cash sum paid to Ospreys and Council.
New lease (or sale - I wouldn't rule that out) drawn up.
New Lease revalued for borrowing purposes.
Football club goes into substantially increased debt as a result.
Dineen remaining share bought by Amercan investors.
Jenkins five remaining shares bought by American investors.
Jenkins and Dineen ride into the sunset.
Trusts share percentage decreased substantially by loan/equity transfer.
Club , which now includes the ground/lease sold for substantial profit to ? |
How do they revalue the lease for borrowing purposes?
If for example they agree £1m a year for 50 years - how would this be valued? Some DCF basis?
How could they then revalue it? What rationale do they have to give for revaluing upwards? Do auditors have to approve this revaluation or just get it approved by a bank who will provide the finance? | | | |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 15:14 - Feb 20 with 6186 views | Loyal |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:44 - Feb 20 by waynekerr55 |
Well I've heard that said owners aren't interested in buying the remaining shares as they have what they need, that being the voting rights. |
They clearly have enough because they are calling the shots and not including the trust.
Are the Trust involved in these discussions is one question, and by that I mean ALL of them. |  |
| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 14:58 - Feb 21 with 5842 views | Nookiejack |
Notrac, looking at the accounts the SCMC has turnover of £3.1m which I assume includes the £306,468, £340,112 and £73,695 you have explained in OP. Do you know what is the difference between these amounts and the £3.1m.
Is this catering pre match and at half time. Plus Rock concerts such as Kings of Leon? Noting that Administrative expenses total £2.28m so profit before tax was only £54k. So if it is catering then profit margin on it looks quite low after staffing the bars etc.
I assume again Club, Council and Ospreys share the £54k. So does council only currently get circa £18k before tax(£54k /3) per annum?
The council in the SWEP article seem to be saying that deal will be worth £250,000 to £750,000 per annum to taxpayer. Which is far in excess of £18k?
I suppose from the club's point of view - it will be weighing up how much will it pay on the the new lease compared to £306,468? Hence if it pays £500,000 per year - can it generate at least £200k in additional revenue to be better off - but then again the catering seems a very low profit margin stream.
You would also think club then has full responsibility for future repairs and maintenance if it takes on lease - as acccounts seem to indicate SCMC is responsible for this - so would be currently shared by Club, Council and Ospreys.
The club does seem to have a very good deal at the moment and hopefully the business case in due course will come out - on why club thinks it is better to enter into a new lease.
The Council seems to think it is going to be better off and likewise the Club?
In a zero sum game can all parties be better off? Unless commercial revenue does take off but why should it after so many years in Premier League? | | | |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 17:57 - Feb 21 with 5741 views | Clinton |
I thought the same thing on the 3 million turnover versus the OP's figures. I cant see how it all adds up.
Of the 3 million turnover, how much is naming rights from 'Liberty properties' ?
I see Christine Richards is gushing in her thanks to them in the 2016 annual report
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/05176687/filing-history
The report seems to say that the naming rights ended at the end of the 2016 financial year?
If so, under what agreement is it still named 'the Liberty Stadium' ? |  |
| If you can fill the unforgiving minute.
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! |
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 18:01 - Feb 21 with 5727 views | waynekerr55 |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 14:58 - Feb 21 by Nookiejack |
Notrac, looking at the accounts the SCMC has turnover of £3.1m which I assume includes the £306,468, £340,112 and £73,695 you have explained in OP. Do you know what is the difference between these amounts and the £3.1m.
Is this catering pre match and at half time. Plus Rock concerts such as Kings of Leon? Noting that Administrative expenses total £2.28m so profit before tax was only £54k. So if it is catering then profit margin on it looks quite low after staffing the bars etc.
I assume again Club, Council and Ospreys share the £54k. So does council only currently get circa £18k before tax(£54k /3) per annum?
The council in the SWEP article seem to be saying that deal will be worth £250,000 to £750,000 per annum to taxpayer. Which is far in excess of £18k?
I suppose from the club's point of view - it will be weighing up how much will it pay on the the new lease compared to £306,468? Hence if it pays £500,000 per year - can it generate at least £200k in additional revenue to be better off - but then again the catering seems a very low profit margin stream.
You would also think club then has full responsibility for future repairs and maintenance if it takes on lease - as acccounts seem to indicate SCMC is responsible for this - so would be currently shared by Club, Council and Ospreys.
The club does seem to have a very good deal at the moment and hopefully the business case in due course will come out - on why club thinks it is better to enter into a new lease.
The Council seems to think it is going to be better off and likewise the Club?
In a zero sum game can all parties be better off? Unless commercial revenue does take off but why should it after so many years in Premier League? |
Well we all know why we are a shambles commercially, given that we've got the aching fûcking simpleton Dineen in charge.
Given that it appears Pearlman has more than one braincell, then there's every chance we could improve our dire commercial operation. [Post edited 21 Feb 2017 18:05]
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 18:03 - Feb 21 with 5725 views | Clinton |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 11:42 - Feb 20 by NOTRAC |
Scenario of events.
Money lent to Swansea by American Investors.
Cash sum paid to Ospreys and Council.
New lease (or sale - I wouldn't rule that out) drawn up.
New Lease revalued for borrowing purposes.
Football club goes into substantially increased debt as a result.
Dineen remaining share bought by Amercan investors.
Jenkins five remaining shares bought by American investors.
Jenkins and Dineen ride into the sunset.
Trusts share percentage decreased substantially by loan/equity transfer.
Club , which now includes the ground/lease sold for substantial profit to ? |
Red herring.
Some of these guys are Investment managers and the like, Kaplan especially must have access to financing that wouldnt depend on the value of the Liberty Stadium lease. Even if they want to suck money out of the club via debt financing or other means, they dont need the Liberty lease to do it IMHO. | |
| If you can fill the unforgiving minute.
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! |
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| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 18:41 - Feb 21 with 5685 views | Nookiejack |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 17:57 - Feb 21 by Clinton |
I thought the same thing on the 3 million turnover versus the OP's figures. I cant see how it all adds up.
Of the 3 million turnover, how much is naming rights from 'Liberty properties' ?
I see Christine Richards is gushing in her thanks to them in the 2016 annual report
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/05176687/filing-history
The report seems to say that the naming rights ended at the end of the 2016 financial year?
If so, under what agreement is it still named 'the Liberty Stadium' ? |
Yes cheers for pointing this out on page 3 at the bottom. The financial year would end 31st May 15 unless she was referring to 31st May 16 - either way it must have been extended. | | | |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 18:49 - Feb 21 with 5671 views | Nookiejack |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 18:03 - Feb 21 by Clinton |
Red herring.
Some of these guys are Investment managers and the like, Kaplan especially must have access to financing that wouldnt depend on the value of the Liberty Stadium lease. Even if they want to suck money out of the club via debt financing or other means, they dont need the Liberty lease to do it IMHO. |
Maybe because you own the lease you can now present a business case to a bank that your cash flows will increase - as then receive 100% of all income - less increased lease costs (the £250,00 to £750,000 that the council is talking about).
Hence your borrowing capacity could increase - if bank believes your net increased cashflow forecasts. | | | |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 18:52 - Feb 21 with 5667 views | Nookiejack |
| Liberty Lease.. Dineen and Jenkins are representing the club! on 18:49 - Feb 21 by Nookiejack |
Maybe because you own the lease you can now present a business case to a bank that your cash flows will increase - as then receive 100% of all income - less increased lease costs (the £250,00 to £750,000 that the council is talking about).
Hence your borrowing capacity could increase - if bank believes your net increased cashflow forecasts. |
PS isn't that how VC investment managers increase their return in investment by leveraging the assets? | | | |
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