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Swans Academy 13:34 - Dec 15 with 7271 views

My 12 year old nephew has been on trial with Swans academy and cardiff Academy for the last couple of weeks. Cardiff Academy seem to be light years ahead at his age group. Is this normal throughout the age groups?

Swans Academy on 16:21 - Dec 16 with 1099 views

Kilkennyjack

Swans Academy on 09:29 - Dec 16 by jasper_T

It's far too early to say "mega millions gets you nothing". The oldest development lads at Swansea (the ones out on loan in the Football League: Josh Sheehan, Connor Roberts...) played plenty of games on dogshit covered pitches before the investment started in earnest.

The route to first team football is tricky when that first team plays in the Premier League. It took serious injury for Ben Davies to get the chance to make the step. If we go down we could see 3 or 4 local products push on immediately.

Well frankly thats all lame excuses.

We have had nobody through and thats the botton line.

And the local players we invested years and years in like .....Alfei, Loveridge, Lucas, March, Cornell,and Tancock etc don't seem to be in pro football any more. Not just a little short of the Premier League.

Not to mention the likes of Obeng and a team load of other players brought in at youth and u21 level and not one has been good enough. So why bring them in at significant cost to our club ?

Now it appears the signing of many players from Scotland and Cardiff areas is the way forward. Really ?

Sorry - its not good enough for the millions spent. And at our current first team time of need there is still nobody local anywhere near getting any game time.

Open your eyes.

Beware of the Risen People

Swans Academy on 16:22 - Dec 16 with 1098 views

glanmorjak

Swans Academy on 15:44 - Dec 16 by blueytheblue
Agree Cat 1 / Prem teams can poach players with impunity these days, see Matondo. Though I would have to say that they offered guaranteed pro contract, house and job for the dad. Not sure you'd do that or be in position to, being fair. So within Cat 1 there's a semblance of a glass ceiling.

bluey,
I asked you in a previous post if you had all of facilities like an indoor barn, classrooms, large and small pitches to qualify for academy 1 status, plus the relevant qualified personnel on the academy payroll, quite a large step up from what academy 2 deem necessary.

The hard nosed pro that Warnock is, knows the score but the bottom line as far as he is concerned is getting the club into the PL, knowing full well that the quality players he requires next season will demand top salaries and over what Tan is going to hand him in next year's player recruitment budget. He is not getting any younger and this realistically is his last chance of taking a club back into the PL. Any financial cutbacks Warnock will make in releasing young professionals will go towards his first team recruitment pot.

There might be a smokescreen now from Warnock about the lack of competition at 21/23 level but that will change should you return to the PL. It has to for Tan to justify his statement regarding wanting more local talent into the club.

Swans Academy on 16:35 - Dec 16 with 1093 views

blueytheblue

Swans Academy on 16:22 - Dec 16 by glanmorjak

We have the bulk of what would be required for Cat 1 - the House of Sport development aided that. A cat 2 academy can actually get fairly close to the level of a cat 1 without going through the full audit.

Financial cutbacks as you put it are required due to FFP. Given the pitiful penalty for breaking FFP if you promote, it's almost noble / silly we're trying to do it the right way. It's a tad silly to think the salaries of the youngsters going will cover salaries of qualify players coming in. We're more likely to assess any bids for our players in January.

Players being released from the DVP now are the likes ( I'd presume ) of a Theo Wharton. Rated by Nathan Blake ( well, he is his godson after all ). He's now 22, first pro contract back in 2011. Two games played for us in five years. No loan deals. You ascribe his release ( if he is indeed one of those going ) to helping the first team pot - I'd say it's keeping costs down for FFP room by getting rid of a player with no prospect here.

We've a sizeable group of 2nd, 3rd year pros who aren't stepping up quality wise, aren't wanted on loan. There's no indication any of those at the moment are capable of having a light bulb moment and realising how they can get near the first team. It helps nobody keeping them around.

There is absolutely no smokescreen being put in place. We'd not have appointed Bellamy if there was no desire to get youngsters coming through. I accept your last point; Man City poaching Matondo being an example but equally player and family can have the final say. Man City were after Sion Spence at the same time and he turned them down to stay with us.

EDIT:

The other point is that Warnock unlike the three managers before him under Tan has at last addressed the elephant in the room - players aren't progressing enough.

Mackay - bigged up Wharton, bigged up O'Sullivan. Not enough to give them real consistent chances. Had little if anything to do with the Academy.

Ole - wanted large first team squad with rotation. Did give some youngsters the odd game, ie James and Healey vs Chelsea, Jazzi Barnum-Bobb in cup games. Nothing consistent, again had little to do with the Academy, players rarely loaned out.

Slade - focused on first team only, never seen at DVP games. Youngsters never got a chance. Again, loaning out record poor.

[Post edited 16 Dec 2016 16:53]

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Swans Academy on 16:56 - Dec 16 with 1075 views

arnnie

Swans Academy on 16:11 - Dec 16 by TailGunner
arnnie, I have spoken to a friend who's lad plays for Swans 13s. I am informed only a few regular Swans Academy boys played, the majority were made up of trialists. The game was set up to asses trialists.

Thanks TailGunner. That answers a few questions. Cardiff Schools had some very good players who possibly play for Cardiff Academy if not then hopefully a few notes were taken.

Swans Academy on 17:07 - Dec 16 with 1059 views

londonlisa2001

Swans Academy on 16:11 - Dec 16 by TailGunner
arnnie, I have spoken to a friend who's lad plays for Swans 13s. I am informed only a few regular Swans Academy boys played, the majority were made up of trialists. The game was set up to asses trialists.

Maybe that explains why our sites only mentioned the under 10s game as it wasn't regarded as a 'proper' academy game then? On the other hand, maybe they didn't because they are not updated fully quite often.

Swans Academy on 17:33 - Dec 16 with 1028 views

jasper_T

Swans Academy on 15:08 - Dec 16 by glanmorjak

I have no doubt that Warnock's decision to downgrade his academy is a money saving decision based totally on his having more cash in the pot to spend on the first team and, in his opinion, make a better fist of getting the club back into the PL.

If Cardiff were in the PL, I have no doubts that Tan would justify his decision on wanting more Welsh kids at the club and provide the cash to upgrade to academy 1 status.

Only in a few seasons will we be able to make a judgement on whether the Swans academy has been value for money but one major criticism I have at the moment is over the decision of how many seasons can you have academy players playing in the U23's, as at the moment I have concerns over the likes of Rodon, James, Davies K going sideways rather than be placed out on loan. These guys are in their 3rd season of U23 football and havn't a clue what the outside world of man's football is all about. In my opinion they need to go out on loan in January but my concern is that with the 23's on top of the league they will remain at the club in an attempt to get promotion.

Dan James only became a regular in the u21s last season as an undersized 17-18 year old.

Bizarre choice of player to have "stagnated". Went on the pre-season tour with the first team, sat on the bench a couple of times, and has played against senior sides in the Checkatrade Trophy (when not on international duty).

Rodon qualified to play for the u18s last season but was playing with the u21s as well iirc.

Swans Academy on 17:36 - Dec 16 with 1021 views

jasper_T

Swans Academy on 16:21 - Dec 16 by Kilkennyjack

All the players you're complaining about were products of our tin shed impression of a real academy.

Cat One status was only achieved last year. The buildings have only been finished for 12 months ffs.

Swans Academy on 18:39 - Dec 16 with 985 views

Loyal

Swans Academy on 14:12 - Dec 16 by arnnie

Ha ha I don't think my family member is good enough along with a few others that I watched over the past few weeks that was the point. Would be interesting to know how many of the cardiff schools team are with Cardiff Academy as some of them looked really good . Was only asking people who know about Academy football if swans are picking up the best kids from our area when we have in place a category 1 Academy.

And the answer is clearly yes.

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Swans Academy on 19:08 - Dec 16 with 968 views

glanmorjak

Swans Academy on 17:33 - Dec 16 by jasper_T

jasper,

if you had read my post correctly, my concerns of the 3 players were that they would go sideways if they continued to play in the 23's, and not that they had stagnated. All 3 players made appearances for the 21's during the second half of the 2014/15 season, and James and Rodon are 19 now while Davies is a year older.
I feel James especially should have made his PL debut by now, and like Roberts and Rodon did go on the US Tour. The occasional game v Checkatrade teams, albeit weakened ones is not the same as matches every Saturday in the Football League in the REAL world of pro football.

Swans Academy on 22:54 - Dec 16 with 892 views

Kilkennyjack

Swans Academy on 17:36 - Dec 16 by jasper_T
All the players you're complaining about were products of our tin shed impression of a real academy. Cat One status was only achieved last year. The buildings have only been finished for 12 months ffs.

I am not complaining about any player.

We have had Academy status since June 2013.

Has our huge investment actually delivered jobs for the boys, rather than produce premiership players ?
How many of our Academy coaches live within 10 miles of the ground ?
Compare that with how many have coached at another pro club ?

It needs sorting out so we can again develop young players from the Swansea area. Not too interested in Scotland sorry.

Beware of the Risen People

Swans Academy on 07:22 - Dec 17 with 857 views

arnnie

Swans Academy on 22:54 - Dec 16 by Kilkennyjack

Good questons, when you see inside the facilities you can't help being impressed and it obviously hasn't come cheap. I'm a bit surprised by people on this thread who obviously know a bit about Academy football saying that the investment won't necessarily improve the chances of getting some local talent in to the first team. Since I've been watching the Swans we have had Robbie james, Curt, Charlo, speedy, Joe Allen, Ben etc, all of whom played at the top level. They came through when we basically had no facilities. I was really pleased when the academy was set up thinking that it would give our local talent every chance of developing in to the first team. Perfect example of this is Southampton Academy how are they so good at getting talented youngsters in to the 1st team? ?

Swans Academy on 07:47 - Dec 17 with 845 views

Kilkennyjack

Swans Academy on 07:22 - Dec 17 by arnnie

Exactly mate.

Beware of the Risen People

Swans Academy on 08:39 - Dec 17 with 810 views

blueytheblue

Swans Academy on 07:47 - Dec 17 by Kilkennyjack
Exactly mate.

Southampton are good at bring youth through because they have a plan for progression into the first team, unlike virtually every other club.

Look at Man Yoo - the class of 92. A one off, how many yoof products have really made a last impact at Man Yoo since? Very few. Prem teams splash cash to buy players in as a first thought, promote youths as a secondary thought.

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Swans Academy on 10:10 - Dec 17 with 783 views

jasper_T

Swans Academy on 22:54 - Dec 16 by Kilkennyjack

If we go by June 2013 as the start date then the first batch of players to have been trained in that environment at u16 level would only be coming through to senior football now anyway. The British mentality is to expect wonderkids to be breaking through at 17 & 18 (and then peaking at 20 & 21), but that's unrealistic when we've only had the status to poach those players (usually really fast and 6'2 at 15) for a short while.

"It needs sorting out" you say, but the sorting out has potentially already been done, we just need to be patient with the results. I won't claim it's perfect by its a hell of a lot more professional a setup than it used to be.

Investment made into Scottish kids for the u21/23 setup is different from Academy investment. The facilities have been put in place to get more out of the Welsh prospects available, and improving the quality of the sides they are trying to break into is beneficial to the development of the brightest prospects. Our almost entirely local (meaning SOuth Wales, not just Swansea) u18s are pretty poor, but the u23 side with a mix of Welsh talent and imported players plays good football and gets great results. That's fantastic for Davies, Rodon, Lewis, Jones, James, Samuel etc.

Some mediocre Swansea-born kid may fall short now, where they used to get a pro contract and 4 years sitting in the u21 squad, but the League of Wales is still there if they actually want to play football and not just buy a BMW to cruise around town.

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