| Could the trust be doomed? 15:16 - Nov 6 with 27951 views | NOTRAC |
I am not sure about this, but because of the way the ownership of the shares in Swansea City have actually been made, it might be that two "owners" could allow the American investors virtual control of the Club, without recourse to the present Board of Directors, the Trust,or the remaining shareholders.
We are often told that Martin Morgan and his wife own 225,000 shares in the club and that Brian Ketzon owns 200,000 shares which together equate to 50% of the total shares issued.
In fact they actually own no shares at all.The shares are owned by Oth Limited (225,000 shares) and Five Thirty Limited (161216shares) and T L R Investments Limited (38784shares)
It can be assumed therefore that Oth Limited is owned by Martin Morgan and his wife, and the other two companies by Brian Ketzon and family.
Without knowing of any legal restrictions,both Martin Morgan and Brian Ketzon could sell their shares in Oth Limited, Five Thirty Limited and T L R Investments Limited without any recourse to Swansea City Football Club and let in the Americans through the back door.The shares as such would not have changed hands, they are still owned by the same Companies (where incidentally they are shown as investments on the Balance Sheets of those Companies), it is just that the Americans have control of those shares.
If the above is legally feasible, then the Americans could contain absolute control by buying in exactly the same way the shares allegedly owned by Dineen but which are in fact owned by Bulk Vending Limited and Van Zweden whose shares are owned by Swansea Jacks Limited.
If the above scenario was possible,and I know of no reason why legally it is not, then the Trust would be powerless to stop it, and would receive nothing for their shares
I would hope there are provisions in place to stop the above happening, otherwise the Trust could be doomed. |  |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 22:59 - Nov 6 with 1978 views | _ |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 22:34 - Nov 6 by Rancid |
Aye up until last year Huw was claiming Jobs Seekers allowance and 1 or 2 others on the board on the sick with bad backs.True that. |
Hahahhahha.... Bless them Chris.... Those brand new Audis they were driving around in in League 1 were bought from roofing hobbles. |  |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 23:02 - Nov 6 with 1972 views | _ |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 22:59 - Nov 6 by _ |
Hahahhahha.... Bless them Chris.... Those brand new Audis they were driving around in in League 1 were bought from roofing hobbles. |
So tell me Dai what's the damage for the total shemonka? | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 23:06 - Nov 6 with 1954 views | Uxbridge |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 23:02 - Nov 6 by _ |
So tell me Dai what's the damage for the total shemonka? |
Damn you! I was just about to type that! |  |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 23:16 - Nov 6 with 1927 views | _ |
Jenkins will be the first to admit he got his inspiration for club chairman from the film Twin Town... There's just too many similarities to think otherwise. | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 23:19 - Nov 6 with 1915 views | Rancid |
''I built this club from nothing and i fu*kin loves it'' |  | | |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 23:22 - Nov 6 with 1901 views | Uxbridge |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 23:16 - Nov 6 by _ |
Jenkins will be the first to admit he got his inspiration for club chairman from the film Twin Town... There's just too many similarities to think otherwise. |
There's a certain Cartwrightness I concede. If he buys the Ponderosa off an old friend of mine then I'm calling it! [Post edited 6 Nov 2014 23:23]
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:45 - Nov 7 with 1842 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 20:19 - Nov 6 by dgt73 |
No just enjoy the football that's being produced by the best ever Swans team. |
How long have you been supporting the Swans then DGT? |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 01:28 - Nov 7 with 1821 views | Davillin |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 21:28 - Nov 6 by dgt73 |
So is it fair then to say the club didn't live within it's means. |
No. Taking a bridge loan is merely a way of acquiring ready cash in anticipation of an known and expected inflow of cash, and is technically not going into debt.
This is completely routine in any business which gets its income in, say, bunches, rather than in a relatively even flow. Sometimes it becomes necessary to get a bridge loan when the next bunch is coming too late to provide a good cash flow, and is normally paid off in full when the "bunch" arrives. |  |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 05:16 - Nov 7 with 1790 views | dgt73 |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 22:08 - Nov 6 by _ |
Fack me you're naive to believe that load of old bollox... |
Or maybe you're just a paranoid idiot. Let's not deal in myths and rumours, show me the evidence ???? I won't hold my breath.  |  |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 05:17 - Nov 7 with 1787 views | dgt73 |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 01:28 - Nov 7 by Davillin |
No. Taking a bridge loan is merely a way of acquiring ready cash in anticipation of an known and expected inflow of cash, and is technically not going into debt.
This is completely routine in any business which gets its income in, say, bunches, rather than in a relatively even flow. Sometimes it becomes necessary to get a bridge loan when the next bunch is coming too late to provide a good cash flow, and is normally paid off in full when the "bunch" arrives. |
Interest free loans ?? | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 08:12 - Nov 7 with 1747 views | Uxbridge |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 01:28 - Nov 7 by Davillin |
No. Taking a bridge loan is merely a way of acquiring ready cash in anticipation of an known and expected inflow of cash, and is technically not going into debt.
This is completely routine in any business which gets its income in, say, bunches, rather than in a relatively even flow. Sometimes it becomes necessary to get a bridge loan when the next bunch is coming too late to provide a good cash flow, and is normally paid off in full when the "bunch" arrives. |
Er... Dav...that's the very definition of debt.
It is a perfectly acceptable course of action though, so long as there's a plan to pay it off as you say. There's no way we're paying for a stadium expansion out of cash in bank. | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 08:51 - Nov 7 with 1714 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 05:16 - Nov 7 by dgt73 |
Or maybe you're just a paranoid idiot. Let's not deal in myths and rumours, show me the evidence ???? I won't hold my breath. |
I have seen this kind of post on all of the Cardiff City message boards over the last half a dozen years . They buried their heads in the sand tempted by the promise of jam tomorrow but tomorrow never really came for them did it.
Would you call all the fans who protested against Petty "paranoid idiots" ? Wake up, the stakes are even higher now. Are you connected to the board of directors in any way? Because only a relative/friend of theirs or a complete idiot would want to see those people walk away with a massive return in their initial very small (in comparison) investment, make themselves multi millionaires and give the club to a complete stranger who may decide not to invest at all but to asset strip. You are Mrs Morgan and I claim my 5 pounds | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:28 - Nov 7 with 1684 views | _ |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 05:16 - Nov 7 by dgt73 |
Or maybe you're just a paranoid idiot. Let's not deal in myths and rumours, show me the evidence ???? I won't hold my breath. |
There we go then.... While you're sat there creaming yourself over this made new catchphrase you've made for yourself the rest of us will ask the necessary questions to protect our club and its future and you'll be the one looking like the mug you're starting to sound like... | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:34 - Nov 7 with 1681 views | _ |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 01:28 - Nov 7 by Davillin |
No. Taking a bridge loan is merely a way of acquiring ready cash in anticipation of an known and expected inflow of cash, and is technically not going into debt.
This is completely routine in any business which gets its income in, say, bunches, rather than in a relatively even flow. Sometimes it becomes necessary to get a bridge loan when the next bunch is coming too late to provide a good cash flow, and is normally paid off in full when the "bunch" arrives. |
Dav, the £2m loan Morgan put into the club circa Jan 2011 had no obvious method of paying back; well, not unless we made it to the Premier League a few months later....
That was a change to their living within their means philosophy then. Ok, in today's money in football, it's relatively loose change but had we not gone up in May that year we may have been looking at a completely different club right now.
Also I doubt, although I don't know this for sure that Morgan's loans were completely free to the club, could he afford to take a complete hit on any return of that £2m? Either way, it was of course a very cost effective way of raising the finances to get us to the EPL. | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 18:07 - Nov 7 with 1611 views | Davillin |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:34 - Nov 7 by _ |
Dav, the £2m loan Morgan put into the club circa Jan 2011 had no obvious method of paying back; well, not unless we made it to the Premier League a few months later....
That was a change to their living within their means philosophy then. Ok, in today's money in football, it's relatively loose change but had we not gone up in May that year we may have been looking at a completely different club right now.
Also I doubt, although I don't know this for sure that Morgan's loans were completely free to the club, could he afford to take a complete hit on any return of that £2m? Either way, it was of course a very cost effective way of raising the finances to get us to the EPL. |
I don't know about a £2million loan in 2011. I was referring to loans long before that, which were, whether called that or not, effectively "bridge loans." Included in that not knowing about 2011 is whether it was paid back, when, or how, although not even Mr Morgan would let £2 million go without recovery.
The main difference between the very rich and me is that they don't knowingly or willingly let a penny go for naught. Oops! Insert after "a penny" "of their own money."
I apologize if my post implied "cash free," but "paid in full" would include any interest levied. I don't know anything at all about interest arrangements in those early loans. [Post edited 7 Nov 2014 18:08]
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 18:46 - Nov 7 with 1593 views | Watchman |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 22:18 - Nov 6 by blaine_scfc |
The board have worked miracles over the past ten years, but the change in attitude was plain to see last season in my opinion.
This takeover or something close will happen. Wouldn't surprise me if the yanks may even be at the game Sunday. |
The change in attitude came on that Afternoon!!! when the board in their wisdom announced ST details when fans were travelling to the Man Ure game at home and tried to bury bad news on the day of the most glamorous game in our history.
The powers that be will resurrect that thread hopefully |  |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 21:58 - Nov 7 with 1533 views | dgt73 |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 00:45 - Nov 7 by Brynmill_Jack |
How long have you been supporting the Swans then DGT? |
Since the mid-80's. Been to places such as Stockport, Exeter, brentford, and probably over 70 different grounds (some several times) following the Swans and had my first season ticket over 20 yrs ago. What about you ? | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 21:59 - Nov 7 with 1532 views | dgt73 |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 08:51 - Nov 7 by Brynmill_Jack |
I have seen this kind of post on all of the Cardiff City message boards over the last half a dozen years . They buried their heads in the sand tempted by the promise of jam tomorrow but tomorrow never really came for them did it.
Would you call all the fans who protested against Petty "paranoid idiots" ? Wake up, the stakes are even higher now. Are you connected to the board of directors in any way? Because only a relative/friend of theirs or a complete idiot would want to see those people walk away with a massive return in their initial very small (in comparison) investment, make themselves multi millionaires and give the club to a complete stranger who may decide not to invest at all but to asset strip. You are Mrs Morgan and I claim my 5 pounds |
Wake up to what exactly ??????????? | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 08:44 - Nov 8 with 1473 views | MoscowJack |
Brynmill, I disagree with you.
I have absolutely zero objection to BK, MM, HJ, LD, RD, JvZ & Co walking away with obscene amounts of money. They're lucky men.
All that I want is to see this - (obscene money - 10%).
If they donated 10% of their shares to the Trust in advance of settlement, it would give the Trust the 25%+ that they need. They can then take their money and, in my personal opinion, walk the streets of Swansea with their heads held high. Or should I say, 'drive the streets of Swansea in brand new cars' with their heads held high?
In a perfect world, the money from any sale would go back into the club, but that's not the case. It's a bit of a shame, but you can't expect these people to walk away from money that will set up their families for a very long time. You and I wouldn't walk away if we were in their position.
Nevertheless, it doesn't mean that we (the fans) have to sit back and watch it happen. We, via the Trust, need EVERYONE to know that there will be hell to play if any sale is made without the protection of the Trust being the secured first. That means 25% or more PLUS guaranteed protection from any future share issue or dilution. That's all.
If it means someone gets £9m instead of £10m or £4m instead of £5m, then that's what needs to happen. It's better to have 80% or 90% of something, than 100% of nothing. | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 08:49 - Nov 8 with 1469 views | dgt73 |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 08:44 - Nov 8 by MoscowJack |
Brynmill, I disagree with you.
I have absolutely zero objection to BK, MM, HJ, LD, RD, JvZ & Co walking away with obscene amounts of money. They're lucky men.
All that I want is to see this - (obscene money - 10%).
If they donated 10% of their shares to the Trust in advance of settlement, it would give the Trust the 25%+ that they need. They can then take their money and, in my personal opinion, walk the streets of Swansea with their heads held high. Or should I say, 'drive the streets of Swansea in brand new cars' with their heads held high?
In a perfect world, the money from any sale would go back into the club, but that's not the case. It's a bit of a shame, but you can't expect these people to walk away from money that will set up their families for a very long time. You and I wouldn't walk away if we were in their position.
Nevertheless, it doesn't mean that we (the fans) have to sit back and watch it happen. We, via the Trust, need EVERYONE to know that there will be hell to play if any sale is made without the protection of the Trust being the secured first. That means 25% or more PLUS guaranteed protection from any future share issue or dilution. That's all.
If it means someone gets £9m instead of £10m or £4m instead of £5m, then that's what needs to happen. It's better to have 80% or 90% of something, than 100% of nothing. |
Hell to pay ?? | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:04 - Nov 8 with 1458 views | _ |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 08:44 - Nov 8 by MoscowJack |
Brynmill, I disagree with you.
I have absolutely zero objection to BK, MM, HJ, LD, RD, JvZ & Co walking away with obscene amounts of money. They're lucky men.
All that I want is to see this - (obscene money - 10%).
If they donated 10% of their shares to the Trust in advance of settlement, it would give the Trust the 25%+ that they need. They can then take their money and, in my personal opinion, walk the streets of Swansea with their heads held high. Or should I say, 'drive the streets of Swansea in brand new cars' with their heads held high?
In a perfect world, the money from any sale would go back into the club, but that's not the case. It's a bit of a shame, but you can't expect these people to walk away from money that will set up their families for a very long time. You and I wouldn't walk away if we were in their position.
Nevertheless, it doesn't mean that we (the fans) have to sit back and watch it happen. We, via the Trust, need EVERYONE to know that there will be hell to play if any sale is made without the protection of the Trust being the secured first. That means 25% or more PLUS guaranteed protection from any future share issue or dilution. That's all.
If it means someone gets £9m instead of £10m or £4m instead of £5m, then that's what needs to happen. It's better to have 80% or 90% of something, than 100% of nothing. |
Would John Moores still want to "invest" if they gifted shares back to the Trust? | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:06 - Nov 8 with 1455 views | Uxbridge |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 08:44 - Nov 8 by MoscowJack |
Brynmill, I disagree with you.
I have absolutely zero objection to BK, MM, HJ, LD, RD, JvZ & Co walking away with obscene amounts of money. They're lucky men.
All that I want is to see this - (obscene money - 10%).
If they donated 10% of their shares to the Trust in advance of settlement, it would give the Trust the 25%+ that they need. They can then take their money and, in my personal opinion, walk the streets of Swansea with their heads held high. Or should I say, 'drive the streets of Swansea in brand new cars' with their heads held high?
In a perfect world, the money from any sale would go back into the club, but that's not the case. It's a bit of a shame, but you can't expect these people to walk away from money that will set up their families for a very long time. You and I wouldn't walk away if we were in their position.
Nevertheless, it doesn't mean that we (the fans) have to sit back and watch it happen. We, via the Trust, need EVERYONE to know that there will be hell to play if any sale is made without the protection of the Trust being the secured first. That means 25% or more PLUS guaranteed protection from any future share issue or dilution. That's all.
If it means someone gets £9m instead of £10m or £4m instead of £5m, then that's what needs to happen. It's better to have 80% or 90% of something, than 100% of nothing. |
Given that the Swansea brand has been built on an inexhaustible supply of goodwill from fans who have supported the ethos of by the fans for the fans, it would indeed be wonderful if this was recognised by those seeking to cash in. | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:47 - Nov 8 with 1422 views | NOTRAC |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 22:34 - Nov 6 by Rancid |
Aye up until last year Huw was claiming Jobs Seekers allowance and 1 or 2 others on the board on the sick with bad backs.True that. |
Over the years the club has transacted day to day business with Companies owned by its Directors and shareholders.
For example in the last set of accounts to May 2013 note 33 shows that they had the following amount of transactions
With M W Morgans various companies £3,191,170
H D Cooze. £150,861
S R Penny. (For legal services). £71813
L Dineen. £91,278
Whilst the above are fully disclosed and are perfectly legal there have obviously been benefits to those directors from being associated with Swansea City.
Also of course all directors would receive the best seating and refreshments free of charge .
So to say that they have all enacted their Directorships for no rewards isn't quite the case. | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 10:32 - Nov 8 with 1389 views | _ |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 09:47 - Nov 8 by NOTRAC |
Over the years the club has transacted day to day business with Companies owned by its Directors and shareholders.
For example in the last set of accounts to May 2013 note 33 shows that they had the following amount of transactions
With M W Morgans various companies £3,191,170
H D Cooze. £150,861
S R Penny. (For legal services). £71813
L Dineen. £91,278
Whilst the above are fully disclosed and are perfectly legal there have obviously been benefits to those directors from being associated with Swansea City.
Also of course all directors would receive the best seating and refreshments free of charge .
So to say that they have all enacted their Directorships for no rewards isn't quite the case. |
Precisely and i've been trying to tell people this since 2005 or before!!! | |
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| Could the trust be doomed? on 10:54 - Nov 8 with 1376 views | Darran |
| Could the trust be doomed? on 10:32 - Nov 8 by _ |
Precisely and i've been trying to tell people this since 2005 or before!!! |
I know you're a bit thick but you do realise we would have had to pay that money out anyway and we might (I don't know) have possibly saved money on it yeah? |  |
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