| Hillsborough 13:10 - Sep 12 with 8787 views | exiled_dictator |
Just been listening to the Prime Ministers speech in Parliament regarding the findings of the latest report.
Absolute tragedy & travesty for the 96 families.
Checking for alcohol levels in children?
Blatantly lying
Ignoring evidence
Kelvin MacKenzie, I hope you can still sleep at night.
A long time coming, but still very difficult to comprehend. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Hillsborough on 16:10 - Sep 12 with 1069 views | Cliff |
| Hillsborough on 15:57 - Sep 12 by daveB |
so has this report shown that fans didn't turn up late and charge in causing a crush. Blame on all sides in this sorry incident |
I agree people on here are spouting out crap based on what they've heard over the last 23 years. The simple fact is a lot of the truth has only been revealed TODAY, how about reading it? |  | | |
| Hillsborough on 16:13 - Sep 12 with 1058 views | Bluce_Ree |
This subject literally cannot be debated properly.
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| Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. |
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| Hillsborough on 16:13 - Sep 12 with 1054 views | QPR1882 |
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| Hillsborough on 16:14 - Sep 12 with 1051 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
I read the Taylor Report and have followed the story along the way so was not expecting anything much that was new. The 'truth' has been public knowledge for a very long time, though not acknowledged in some quarters. It never will be. It's time to move on. It seems that won't be possible for the families but nevertheless it's the right thing to do.
You cannot objectively judge events of decades ago by the standards, attitudes and circumstances of today. To an extent, appalling as it was, what happened was a product of its times. Only four years before Hillsborough there was Heysel and the authorities had a lot of reasons to treat football supporters the way they did at the time.
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| Hillsborough on 16:15 - Sep 12 with 1044 views | daveB |
| Hillsborough on 16:10 - Sep 12 by Cliff |
I agree people on here are spouting out crap based on what they've heard over the last 23 years. The simple fact is a lot of the truth has only been revealed TODAY, how about reading it? |
at work so don't really have time to read it at the moment, so to clairfy no blame given to any of the fans who turned up without tickets?
I know the stadium wasn't fit for purpose and the police lied about it all but i've never been able to understand why it's so terrible to suggest thousands turning up with no tickets would have caused at issue at any stadium in Britain back then |  | | |
| Hillsborough on 16:17 - Sep 12 with 1035 views | stowmarketrange |
| Hillsborough on 16:10 - Sep 12 by Cliff |
I agree people on here are spouting out crap based on what they've heard over the last 23 years. The simple fact is a lot of the truth has only been revealed TODAY, how about reading it? |
Have you seen the cctv pictures released today then?That shows a lot of young men running through the open gates.You can't tell whether there are drunk or not,but they don't seem to care where they are running too.
I can't believe some people on here can't seem to see that some Liverpool supporters were partly to blame for the deaths.
If you were killed in the riots of last year,would the cause of your death be that there were no police to save you.Or would the person who killed you nor bear some responsibility? |  | | |
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| Hillsborough on 16:19 - Sep 12 with 1027 views | Bedford_R |
| Hillsborough on 16:15 - Sep 12 by daveB |
at work so don't really have time to read it at the moment, so to clairfy no blame given to any of the fans who turned up without tickets?
I know the stadium wasn't fit for purpose and the police lied about it all but i've never been able to understand why it's so terrible to suggest thousands turning up with no tickets would have caused at issue at any stadium in Britain back then |
The report says the police exaggerated the number of dunk and ticketless fans as part of the cover up. No more than usual. That falsehood was crushed today. |  |
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| Hillsborough on 16:21 - Sep 12 with 1016 views | Bedford_R |
| Hillsborough on 16:17 - Sep 12 by stowmarketrange |
Have you seen the cctv pictures released today then?That shows a lot of young men running through the open gates.You can't tell whether there are drunk or not,but they don't seem to care where they are running too.
I can't believe some people on here can't seem to see that some Liverpool supporters were partly to blame for the deaths.
If you were killed in the riots of last year,would the cause of your death be that there were no police to save you.Or would the person who killed you nor bear some responsibility? |
Don't let the truth get in the way of your opinion... | |
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| Hillsborough on 16:22 - Sep 12 with 1009 views | stowmarketrange |
| Hillsborough on 16:21 - Sep 12 by Bedford_R |
Don't let the truth get in the way of your opinion... |
What truth have iI missed? | | | |
| Hillsborough on 16:26 - Sep 12 with 1002 views | loftboy |
Anyone remember west ham at home in the cup in 88, had we had fences then I'm positives there would of been casualties in the paddocks, IMHO the steel fencing was the ultimate reason most didn't survive.
Hillsborough was and still is a very sad day for football, the pub I drank in at the time raised thousands for the victims and I will always be proud of helping in that, hopefully now the truth has come out everyone can move on. |  |
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| Hillsborough on 16:30 - Sep 12 with 987 views | Aunt_Nelly |
| Hillsborough on 16:26 - Sep 12 by loftboy |
Anyone remember west ham at home in the cup in 88, had we had fences then I'm positives there would of been casualties in the paddocks, IMHO the steel fencing was the ultimate reason most didn't survive.
Hillsborough was and still is a very sad day for football, the pub I drank in at the time raised thousands for the victims and I will always be proud of helping in that, hopefully now the truth has come out everyone can move on. |
Yep, also the Spurs game where the stanchion in the Loft collapsed.
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| Hillsborough on 16:33 - Sep 12 with 978 views | Metallica_Hoop |
I remember during the Rangers Vs Notts Forest/Middlesboro (i forget I was 11/12) game our PA 'announced crown trouble at Hillsborough' and everyone let out a collective tut/groan.
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| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| Hillsborough on 16:34 - Sep 12 with 975 views | Cliff |
| Hillsborough on 16:15 - Sep 12 by daveB |
at work so don't really have time to read it at the moment, so to clairfy no blame given to any of the fans who turned up without tickets?
I know the stadium wasn't fit for purpose and the police lied about it all but i've never been able to understand why it's so terrible to suggest thousands turning up with no tickets would have caused at issue at any stadium in Britain back then |
All I'm saying is try reading the full new report based on the newly disclosed evidence BEFORE spouting off | | | |
| Hillsborough on 16:36 - Sep 12 with 966 views | Cliff |
| Hillsborough on 16:17 - Sep 12 by stowmarketrange |
Have you seen the cctv pictures released today then?That shows a lot of young men running through the open gates.You can't tell whether there are drunk or not,but they don't seem to care where they are running too.
I can't believe some people on here can't seem to see that some Liverpool supporters were partly to blame for the deaths.
If you were killed in the riots of last year,would the cause of your death be that there were no police to save you.Or would the person who killed you nor bear some responsibility? |
All I'm saying (and I have said this before) is try reading the full new report based on the newly disclosed evidence BEFORE spouting off | | | |
| Hillsborough on 16:37 - Sep 12 with 957 views | Cliff |
| Hillsborough on 16:22 - Sep 12 by stowmarketrange |
What truth have iI missed? |
seethe 2 posts above!
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| Hillsborough on 16:38 - Sep 12 with 954 views | TacticalR |
| Hillsborough on 16:36 - Sep 12 by Cliff |
All I'm saying (and I have said this before) is try reading the full new report based on the newly disclosed evidence BEFORE spouting off |
But that would require reading, thought and reflection. And who knows where that would end? |  |
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| Hillsborough on 16:40 - Sep 12 with 947 views | stowmarketrange |
| Hillsborough on 16:36 - Sep 12 by Cliff |
All I'm saying (and I have said this before) is try reading the full new report based on the newly disclosed evidence BEFORE spouting off |
Ok,I will,but I also know what some fans were like back then and sometimes still are. | | | |
| Hillsborough on 16:43 - Sep 12 with 928 views | daveB |
| Hillsborough on 16:19 - Sep 12 by Bedford_R |
The report says the police exaggerated the number of dunk and ticketless fans as part of the cover up. No more than usual. That falsehood was crushed today. |
I'm sure they did exagerate it but they still have plenty of ticketless fans turn up and try and get in, just as they did every year when they played us and recently in the champions league final when they blamed the Greek stadium and police for it as they should be able to handle people with no tickets trying to push into a stadium.
As I say I am not suggesting it was all down to Liverpool fans but to claim they are blameless is riddiculous, they played a small part in all this along with many other factors. | | | |
| Hillsborough on 16:47 - Sep 12 with 920 views | Rangersw12 |
The bit below is from the report very interesting reading
The Circumstances
Consistent with the Operational Order, many spectators arriving in Sheffield on trains and coaches were escorted by the police from their point of arrival to the stadium. As they approached the stadium there was no filtering of the crowd and the bottleneck at the concourse in front of the turnstiles became tightly packed. With walls, fences or gates to the sides and front of this small area, the only relief was to move backwards. Many more fans arrived, oblivious to the mounting crush at the front, and the situation in the vicinity of the turnstiles soon became critical.
1.78 As kick-off time approached, the crush worsened, and men, women, children and police officers struggled to breathe. Mounted police officers were trapped in the crowd. In later testimonies police officers stated that the crowd grew ‘unruly’, ‘nasty’ and ‘violent’, but people caught in the crush gave a contrasting account. They felt there had been no attempt to manage the crowd, no filtering and no queuing.
1.79The Police Control Box, the centre of the policing operation at the stadium,
was positioned inside the ground, elevated above the Leppings Lane terrace, giving a
commanding view of the pens below. At 2.30pm the bank of CCTV monitors in the box
showed the build-up of fans in Leppings Lane and at the turnstiles.
1.80 As the crush became critical, C/Supt Duckenfield faced a serious dilemma. The senior officer outside the ground, Superintendent Roger Marshall, radioed that unless the large exit gates were opened to relieve the crush there would be serious injuries, possibly deaths. Hesitating, C/Supt Duckenfield gave the command to open the gates.
1.81 Gate C was adjacent to the turnstiles and once opened the crowd walked through into the inner concourse behind the Leppings Lane terrace and the North Stand. Fans recalled ‘hanging back’ to wait for the congestion to ease. When Gate C opened they walked onto the inner concourse and down the tunnel.
1.82 The tunnel was directly opposite Gate C and the sign above read: STANDING. The gates at the head of the tunnel were fastened back against the wall. Oblivious to the layout of the terrace, and unable to view the terrace from the tunnel entrance, more than 2,000 fans descended into the already packed central pens.
1.83 When they arrived at the bottom of the tunnel the central fence forced them left into pen 4 or right into pen 3. There were no stewards at either end of the tunnel. The central pens soon held twice their capacity. There was no respite to the sides or front and the sheer volume of people prevented escape back up the tunnel.
1.84 As the teams ran onto the pitch for the 3pm kick-off, the crowd cheered but already in the central pens people were screaming. Others fell silent, already unconscious. Survivors described being gradually compressed, unable to move, their heads ‘locked between arms and shoulders ... faces gasping in panic’. They were aware that people were dying and they were helpless to save themselves. | | | |
| Hillsborough on 16:53 - Sep 12 with 906 views | Rangersw12 |
From what I have read I can't see how the Liverpool fans are blameless to be honest | | | |
| Hillsborough on 17:06 - Sep 12 with 862 views | VancouverHoop |
200+ witness statements altered?
Blood tests to try to prove that fans were drunk?
That as many as 41 of the victims "had potential to survive"? (but police would not let ambulances into the ground)
This is all new information , and extensively documented. | | | |
| Hillsborough on 17:17 - Sep 12 with 1018 views | Hunterhoop |
I'm sorry, Dave. I think you, and one or two others are spouting absolute nonsense.
To say Liverpool fans were to blame for trying to watch their team without a ticket is one thing. Some people are chancers. This thing happens in society and large crowds.
To say Liverpool fans were in any way to blame for the tragedy and deaths that occurred is another. They weren't. The report proves and concludes this without doubt.
It is the police's role in society to maintain the safety of the general public. They completely failed to do so. They then failed to let ambulances onto the pitch to save lives. They then lied and launched a smear campaign on the deceased and survivors to distort the truth. That is abhorrent.
The Liverpool fans can't be blamed for any of that. That is all that matters.
Large crowds happen in the world. Sometimes, especially at sporting venues, they include some people who are drunk. The report concludes the amount was no more than normal and this aspect, and their behavious, was exaggerated by the Police.
The Police failed to managed the crowd. They failed in their duty and then lied and covered it up afterwards all the while blaming the fans.
You can't blame a large crowd for being a large crowd. The report proves they weren't behaving badly and did not cause the deaths. Bad policing did.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply someone unwilling to admit that a previous held belief of theirs on this topic was wrong.
Have some balls, be a man and accept that, with the findings from this report, you're opinion on this event has been proved wrong. |  | | |
| Hillsborough on 17:35 - Sep 12 with 979 views | THEBUSH |
| Hillsborough on 15:26 - Sep 12 by willis1980 |
surely its the responsibility of those that serve and protect to ensure that even if hoards of drunk late comers turn up that the situation is dealt with accordingly, not completely fouled up and covered up.
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Well said, we don't expect the police to lie or do we ? |  | | |
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