| Hull Reflection 22:26 - Oct 1 with 20265 views | bluenwhite10 |
A strange one tonight, started really brightly for the 1st 15-20mins and if their keeper didn’t make those 3 quality saves in that period who knows what would have happened.
Got hit by a sucker punch, then look very vulnerable for the rest of the half which lead to us going 2 down.
Pulled one back just before half time and like the 1st half the 1st 15-20 of the 2nd half Rangers played some good stuff, but Hull got a 3rd from Miller who by the way caused us trouble all night and looked quality and I would of had Santos off at half time and Ashby on as Santos was getting done every time.
I look at Rangers and I can’t see us scoring many goals and the gap between what Hull could do in the final 3rd v what we can do was massive .
A couple of other things the movement is poor at throw ins and also when Nardi has the ball as he seems to be playing at a different speed to the rest of the team and yet again could not fault home with any of the goals and he looks like a quality addition.
We are far to open to play against when the line up contains Frey, Saito, Anderson and Dembele in it is one to many attack minded players as it leaves Field too exposed as Madsen even though he is good on the ball gives no support, but having said that I don't think apart from Colback who could fit in there as Dixon-Bonner simply ain’t up to it. He might have his critics but we are really missing Colback at the moment.
Smyth very poor when he come on by either slowing down the play or crossing straight into the keepers hands.
My opinion on Celar is we have brought a player in that can’t play in the system we want to play and can only play off of another forward and I can’t see us playing that way with the amount of number 10 type players we have.
I also do think we are stronger than we were 12 months ago and we might need to be a bit patient with the amount of changes we have had with the players coming in.
MOM nobody stood out but even though he might be a bit lightweight Saito .
Up the R’s
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| Hull Reflection on 10:52 - Oct 2 with 2428 views | TheChef |
| Hull Reflection on 10:07 - Oct 2 by GaryBannister86 |
Oh come on mate, you cannot seriously have watched Celar and think that he "shows a lot more awareness than Dykes". How? When?
Of course Dykes wasn't brilliant but he was a half-decent Championship striker. Now we have Frey, who apart from one brilliant performance against Luton has hardly torn it up and Celar, who despite us all desperately wanting to come good has so far shown the square root of sod all.
Selling Dykes for £1m in normal circumstances, decent business. My point is it has left us totally bereft up front. |
Fair enough if you disagree but I think over time Celar will prove to be a better striker than Dykes.
I mean Dykes is now playing in the division below. |  |
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| Hull Reflection on 10:52 - Oct 2 with 2428 views | daveB |
| Hull Reflection on 10:51 - Oct 2 by ParkRoyalR |
Time for a LfW group huddle and agree the answer is.......its all Jimmy Dunne's fault.
How Jimmy's stats have by-passed our Stats Dept and the next Pep Guardiola is beyond me. |
no one is saying it's all Jimmy Dunne's fault at all, far from it
It is Ok to say he didn't play well last night though, other than the keeper none of them did |  | | |
| Hull Reflection on 10:55 - Oct 2 with 2406 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Hull Reflection on 10:52 - Oct 2 by TheChef |
Fair enough if you disagree but I think over time Celar will prove to be a better striker than Dykes.
I mean Dykes is now playing in the division below. |
I seriously, seriously hope you are right. We so need Celar to come good.
I just can't see what you have seen to give you that hope (apart from YouTube videos). |  | | |
| Hull Reflection on 10:58 - Oct 2 with 2377 views | lassel |
We were a 17th place team before last night and we are a 17th place team today. |  | | |
| Hull Reflection on 11:01 - Oct 2 with 2368 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Hull Reflection on 10:52 - Oct 2 by TheChef |
Fair enough if you disagree but I think over time Celar will prove to be a better striker than Dykes.
I mean Dykes is now playing in the division below. |
By your logic Celar is a better player than Jay Stansfield who Birmingham just paid £10m quid for, lets hope so. | | | |
| Hull Reflection on 11:08 - Oct 2 with 2314 views | mart_Goblin |
Oh gawd. Who mentioned the D word? |  | | |
| Hull Reflection on 11:10 - Oct 2 with 2296 views | TheChef |
| Hull Reflection on 11:01 - Oct 2 by ParkRoyalR |
By your logic Celar is a better player than Jay Stansfield who Birmingham just paid £10m quid for, lets hope so. |
Hi Lyndon! | |
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| Hull Reflection on 11:26 - Oct 2 with 2234 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Hull Reflection on 11:10 - Oct 2 by TheChef |
Hi Lyndon! |
Haha, and hi Mystic Meg, I hope you're punt in the dark about Celar coming good is right, not sure I'd say its a 50/50 call but its as good a guess as anyone else's. Not sure I'd put together a squad to stay up in the championship on guesswork mind. | | | |
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| Hull Reflection on 11:26 - Oct 2 with 2230 views | ozexile |
| Hull Reflection on 10:52 - Oct 2 by TheChef |
Fair enough if you disagree but I think over time Celar will prove to be a better striker than Dykes.
I mean Dykes is now playing in the division below. |
We've all had a drink but.... come on. | | | |
| Hull Reflection on 11:38 - Oct 2 with 2174 views | TheChef |
| Hull Reflection on 11:26 - Oct 2 by ozexile |
We've all had a drink but.... come on. |
Well let's see who scores more goals come the end of the season.
Anyway the more direct comparison is Dykes and Frey, as Frey is more likely to start games.
Frey 4 goals in 9 matches
Dykes 0 goals in 5 matches | |
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| Hull Reflection on 11:54 - Oct 2 with 2106 views | ozexile |
| Hull Reflection on 11:38 - Oct 2 by TheChef |
Well let's see who scores more goals come the end of the season.
Anyway the more direct comparison is Dykes and Frey, as Frey is more likely to start games.
Frey 4 goals in 9 matches
Dykes 0 goals in 5 matches |
Frey brings something to the team. Celar, not so much. | | | |
| Hull Reflection on 11:56 - Oct 2 with 2099 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Hull Reflection on 23:47 - Oct 1 by Hunterhoop |
I’ll put it here again.
9 tackles made all game to Hull’s 18.
Madsen did not make challenge all game (no tackles or fouls).
Andersen made one challenge (a foul) and gifted them their second goal.
Our starting front 5 made one tackle all game (Saito)
Our subs made 1 tackle all game (Smyth)
Field made 2, Paal 2, Dunne 1, Cook 1, Santos 1. The back 4 at least made some clearances.
We have too many “ballers” and not enough footballers in the team. Footballers who know how to play out of possession. It’s no good being a baller if you don’t have possession and can’t win it back.
This imbalance coupled with the shape and system meant we were so easy to play against. Hull didn’t even have to work that hard to create chances. |
Agree with a lot of that, but Madsen won the ball three times in the first 15 minutes, one with an excellent sliding tackle.
Your point stands though. |  |
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| Hull Reflection on 12:06 - Oct 2 with 2075 views | PhilmyRs |
On Celar, I think people are being harsh, did some decent link up play when it came into feet, a decent bit of movement, but obvious rustiness made him do a weak left footed finish, but he looks lively to me and someone you can coach and improve.
The real problem, and not sure why people aren't focussing in on it as much, is the quality of service into him. If you have Celar up top, you should not be pinging 50 yard aerial balls to him to fight with 2 centre backs, Frey much more effective in that battle. We played some good stuff first half at times, then we seemed to revert (for a decent chunk of time in the second) to hopeful punts and I felt for Celar trying to deal with that. People judging him based on that type of service is unfair. | | | |
| Hull Reflection on 12:14 - Oct 2 with 2040 views | Sharpediver |
| Hull Reflection on 07:48 - Oct 2 by GaryBannister86 |
It was the first time for ages and ages that I felt a bit of antagonism towards the team and possibly manager today, which considering the nonsense dished up at LR for years is quite something. It all feels a bit wrong when we surely have a good manager and the team, individually, seems better than last year.
Makes me remember that the fans do play their part. Although saying that usually winds me up when we have to put up with midfielders not bothering to defend or deciding to try and beat a man on the edge of their own box, facing their own goal, with six opposition players bearing down on him. Hardly our fault for not singing louder.
But hey, maybe we could use Celar as a trigger. Turn him into a cult hero. "He's one of our own" - because (sadly) so far he looks like one of us out on the pitch. A huge flag singing his praises, some kind of chant, huge roars whenever he comes on the pitch. Celebrations when he does a lay off or heads towards goal, even if yards wide.
A gently tongue in cheek effort that is actually not designed to take the proverbial but get behind the lad and see if he can offer us anything.
Because until the next window, we need him, and badly. Somehow, he needs to get up and running. We all know he is probably one more appearance like that from really becoming the Boo Boys' favourite target and that never ends well.
There were, at least, a couple of lay offs and headers won yesterday. That opportunity he bungled though, not so good. [Post edited 2 Oct 7:49]
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Yes, I noticed this as well. Lot of fans round me in the SAR voicing frustrations particularly after first goal went in. You can't blame them - no win at home yet and was a miserable, wet, evening to come and watch a football match. Not seen the attendance figure but it looked like 11-12000 max to me. Lots of empty seats everywhere.
I'm not very savvy regarding formations and tactics etc -many people on this site are excellent at spotting things I would never notice, but I actually really enjoyed a great deal of the football we played last night. It was so much better than the Millwall game. We played with more purpose and energy and players were much more prepared to fight to win the ball back in the opposition half and were fighting for each other as well. Some of our passing and movement was superb and I really enjoyed watching Saito in particular. I came away thinking the score didn't really reflect the balance of play and on a different night we could have been 2-0 up after 15 minutes the way we came out the traps. I still think there's a very good team in there somewhere, we just need to be patient. To me, last night, strangely enough, felt like progress in the right direction. | | | |
| Hull Reflection on 12:18 - Oct 2 with 1998 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Hull Reflection on 12:06 - Oct 2 by PhilmyRs |
On Celar, I think people are being harsh, did some decent link up play when it came into feet, a decent bit of movement, but obvious rustiness made him do a weak left footed finish, but he looks lively to me and someone you can coach and improve.
The real problem, and not sure why people aren't focussing in on it as much, is the quality of service into him. If you have Celar up top, you should not be pinging 50 yard aerial balls to him to fight with 2 centre backs, Frey much more effective in that battle. We played some good stuff first half at times, then we seemed to revert (for a decent chunk of time in the second) to hopeful punts and I felt for Celar trying to deal with that. People judging him based on that type of service is unfair. |
I thought Celar came out with a rocket up his Rs. He was rampaging about, won a couple of headers, put himself about. Then he missed the header and Andersen played him a poor ball in the box for whatb should have been a great chance. Then couldn't sort his feet out for another chance. Grabbed the ball for a free kick (which was awful). Then his head went down. The bloke desperately, desperately needs a goal. I'm clinging to the fact that whenever he comes on he has more shots than anyone else, but he can't put the thing in the net. Yet. | |
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| Hull Reflection on 12:22 - Oct 2 with 1978 views | PhilmyRs |
| Hull Reflection on 12:14 - Oct 2 by Sharpediver |
Yes, I noticed this as well. Lot of fans round me in the SAR voicing frustrations particularly after first goal went in. You can't blame them - no win at home yet and was a miserable, wet, evening to come and watch a football match. Not seen the attendance figure but it looked like 11-12000 max to me. Lots of empty seats everywhere.
I'm not very savvy regarding formations and tactics etc -many people on this site are excellent at spotting things I would never notice, but I actually really enjoyed a great deal of the football we played last night. It was so much better than the Millwall game. We played with more purpose and energy and players were much more prepared to fight to win the ball back in the opposition half and were fighting for each other as well. Some of our passing and movement was superb and I really enjoyed watching Saito in particular. I came away thinking the score didn't really reflect the balance of play and on a different night we could have been 2-0 up after 15 minutes the way we came out the traps. I still think there's a very good team in there somewhere, we just need to be patient. To me, last night, strangely enough, felt like progress in the right direction. |
I think this is a fair reflection. For all the negativity and concerns about our shape and positioning when we didn't have the ball, within the first 15 minutes we should have been 1 or 2 up. Hull didn't really have much of a chance and we played some good football and looked dangerous. A goal, quite good one at that, goes in, and we seem to change, become hesitant in our play and lose our discipline - be it going long too soon or not tracking runners etc, which is surprising given some decent comebacks we've put together this season.
With the ball in the first half there was a lot to like for me. Saito looked v good at times, I thought Madsen looked really good at times too, lovely, intelligent passing, picking gaps and some decent first time inventive one touch passing too - and I'm not his biggest fan.
But then heads drop and it all goes wrong and everything we did well, stops, subs that come on don't really make a positive impact as you expect - thought Smyth was poor - and chasing the game just leaves you even more exposed. | | | |
| Hull Reflection on 12:24 - Oct 2 with 1971 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Hull Reflection on 12:06 - Oct 2 by PhilmyRs |
On Celar, I think people are being harsh, did some decent link up play when it came into feet, a decent bit of movement, but obvious rustiness made him do a weak left footed finish, but he looks lively to me and someone you can coach and improve.
The real problem, and not sure why people aren't focussing in on it as much, is the quality of service into him. If you have Celar up top, you should not be pinging 50 yard aerial balls to him to fight with 2 centre backs, Frey much more effective in that battle. We played some good stuff first half at times, then we seemed to revert (for a decent chunk of time in the second) to hopeful punts and I felt for Celar trying to deal with that. People judging him based on that type of service is unfair. |
Again, I hope you are proved right. But I fear you are clutching at straws. Why should he be rusty? He's had months here now.
And agreed on the service, but on the odd occasions he has been on the end of something, we have a big fat zilch to show for it.
Maybe all he does need is that goal off his backside, but let's hope it comes soon. | | | |
| Hull Reflection on 12:28 - Oct 2 with 1939 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Hull Reflection on 12:18 - Oct 2 by Antti_Heinola |
I thought Celar came out with a rocket up his Rs. He was rampaging about, won a couple of headers, put himself about. Then he missed the header and Andersen played him a poor ball in the box for whatb should have been a great chance. Then couldn't sort his feet out for another chance. Grabbed the ball for a free kick (which was awful). Then his head went down. The bloke desperately, desperately needs a goal. I'm clinging to the fact that whenever he comes on he has more shots than anyone else, but he can't put the thing in the net. Yet. |
Yes I agree with that actually. He definitely appeared to have more fire, even if nothing worked out. And he should have got his tap in if it was the Andersen of last season.
Can't believe no-one's mentioned Chair's shot yet. It was one of those laugh or you would cry moments, like when Frey did that air shot earlier in the season or when Andersen's "long throw" went two feet. Perhaps not good we've had three laugh out loud moments already. [Post edited 2 Oct 12:28]
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| Hull Reflection on 12:39 - Oct 2 with 1828 views | dmm |
Two football sites have rated Madsen as our best player last night. I'm not as critical as some of him but I did find that surprising. I'd have rated Saito our best player.
The attendance was 13,407. |  | | |
| Hull Reflection on 12:40 - Oct 2 with 1824 views | TheChef |
| Hull Reflection on 12:28 - Oct 2 by GaryBannister86 |
Yes I agree with that actually. He definitely appeared to have more fire, even if nothing worked out. And he should have got his tap in if it was the Andersen of last season.
Can't believe no-one's mentioned Chair's shot yet. It was one of those laugh or you would cry moments, like when Frey did that air shot earlier in the season or when Andersen's "long throw" went two feet. Perhaps not good we've had three laugh out loud moments already. [Post edited 2 Oct 12:28]
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Haha yes that Chair shot was a definite case of someone's not played for a few months! | |
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| Hull Reflection on 12:42 - Oct 2 with 1812 views | PhilmyRs |
| Hull Reflection on 12:24 - Oct 2 by GaryBannister86 |
Again, I hope you are proved right. But I fear you are clutching at straws. Why should he be rusty? He's had months here now.
And agreed on the service, but on the odd occasions he has been on the end of something, we have a big fat zilch to show for it.
Maybe all he does need is that goal off his backside, but let's hope it comes soon. |
Of course, we all hope it works out, and good chance it won't, but we should give him more time than what he's had so far before forming a judgement. There are precedents.
Go back to when HH was first with us, pre-Warnock, missed a lot of chances and was sent out on loan, a lot of fans, not sure if you were one, thought he was rubbish and should be sold. Warnock wanted him back, and the rest is history. Les Ferdinand, took a good chunk of time before he established himself. Away from Rangers, Harry Kane really struggled when out on loan, and took a bit of time to establish himself. Not a number 9, but Jack Clarke was written off by a lot of people because he failed to break into our side while on loan, now look at him?
Point being, we've written players off before and they've turned out to be pretty decent. The amount of time Celar has had on the pitch isn't sufficient to form a view of him yet. Dykes had countless minutes, people are more than entitled to take a view on him as a Rangers player - good or bad reviews. Celar is in a team with a lot of new players, all lacking in Championship experience, I'm willing to give him more time, especially when I've seen some glimpses - like how he approached the first 10 mins of being on the pitch yesterday - that he could add something. | | | |
| Hull Reflection on 12:48 - Oct 2 with 1783 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Hull Reflection on 12:28 - Oct 2 by GaryBannister86 |
Yes I agree with that actually. He definitely appeared to have more fire, even if nothing worked out. And he should have got his tap in if it was the Andersen of last season.
Can't believe no-one's mentioned Chair's shot yet. It was one of those laugh or you would cry moments, like when Frey did that air shot earlier in the season or when Andersen's "long throw" went two feet. Perhaps not good we've had three laugh out loud moments already. [Post edited 2 Oct 12:28]
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I mean, all teams do stuff like that. In the YouTube age, all we get is highlights and people forget even City players boot the ball into touch sometimes or balloon a shot. It happens. In every match.
I agree with Hunter we're too lopsided at the moment, and we need that tough streak we had later in the season.
However, while I'm still very guarded with regards to Nourry - in that it's very, very early days (I did say the shine would come off that boil quickly if we weren't winning), I do agree with him on something from Monday: progress is rarely smooth. Even last season, which we view as a success in the context of the Ainsworth disaster, that progression was not linear. It was up and down, right until the very end. We're on a bad run, but I disagree people saying we've been poor all season. We were good in both Luton games. Good eventually at Sheff U. Pretty OK v Plymouth, really. None of these performances have been in the realms of last season's early losses where we were lucky not be tonked by more than the 4 we were on a couple of occasions. The important thing is: do we trust the manager and think he's a good one? That's different to saying you can't criticise him, and different to saying he doesn't make what some fans might believe are poor decisions (I think a lot of fans get mixed up between what Marti (and any manager) might want and what we actually see - last night he was often gesturing to defenders to get it forward quicker and take a long pass on, but the perception is he's told them to only play short sideways passes). If we think he's a good one (I do), we have to be prepared for a rough ride at times, but trust he will find a way, as he did in a much worse situation last season. | |
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| Hull Reflection on 13:02 - Oct 2 with 1660 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Hull Reflection on 12:48 - Oct 2 by Antti_Heinola |
I mean, all teams do stuff like that. In the YouTube age, all we get is highlights and people forget even City players boot the ball into touch sometimes or balloon a shot. It happens. In every match.
I agree with Hunter we're too lopsided at the moment, and we need that tough streak we had later in the season.
However, while I'm still very guarded with regards to Nourry - in that it's very, very early days (I did say the shine would come off that boil quickly if we weren't winning), I do agree with him on something from Monday: progress is rarely smooth. Even last season, which we view as a success in the context of the Ainsworth disaster, that progression was not linear. It was up and down, right until the very end. We're on a bad run, but I disagree people saying we've been poor all season. We were good in both Luton games. Good eventually at Sheff U. Pretty OK v Plymouth, really. None of these performances have been in the realms of last season's early losses where we were lucky not be tonked by more than the 4 we were on a couple of occasions. The important thing is: do we trust the manager and think he's a good one? That's different to saying you can't criticise him, and different to saying he doesn't make what some fans might believe are poor decisions (I think a lot of fans get mixed up between what Marti (and any manager) might want and what we actually see - last night he was often gesturing to defenders to get it forward quicker and take a long pass on, but the perception is he's told them to only play short sideways passes). If we think he's a good one (I do), we have to be prepared for a rough ride at times, but trust he will find a way, as he did in a much worse situation last season. |
Yeah, but I also forgot that someone passed to Jude the Cat last night too :-) | | | |
| Hull Reflection on 13:31 - Oct 2 with 1452 views | Hunterhoop |
| Hull Reflection on 11:56 - Oct 2 by Antti_Heinola |
Agree with a lot of that, but Madsen won the ball three times in the first 15 minutes, one with an excellent sliding tackle.
Your point stands though. |
Not according to the stats houses. All have us down as 9 tackles. And SkySports who give you the breakdown per player had him with zero tackles and zero fouls. They don’t show interceptions so perhaps classed as that? I personally do not recall him making a tackle.
Details though. He’s pony out of possession. Everyone around me was moaning about him. For balance he played a couple of beautiful big diags out to the flank. He clearly has some technical ability but you cannot carry all these passengers out of possession. |  | | |
| Hull Reflection on 13:42 - Oct 2 with 1397 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Hull Reflection on 13:31 - Oct 2 by Hunterhoop |
Not according to the stats houses. All have us down as 9 tackles. And SkySports who give you the breakdown per player had him with zero tackles and zero fouls. They don’t show interceptions so perhaps classed as that? I personally do not recall him making a tackle.
Details though. He’s pony out of possession. Everyone around me was moaning about him. For balance he played a couple of beautiful big diags out to the flank. He clearly has some technical ability but you cannot carry all these passengers out of possession. |
Well stats houses miss stuff all the time. They're only human. The one I referred to was a big tackle that everyone actually cheered. Did you get there late?
I did say I agreed with your overall point though. | |
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