| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 18:35 - Mar 30 with 994 views | Whiterockin |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 18:02 - Mar 30 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Not half of them though? |
True. |  | |  |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 18:53 - Mar 30 with 988 views | SullutaCreturned |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 18:19 - Mar 30 by Gwyn737 |
If the job (NHS) had better terms and conditions we’d have no problem filling the posts.
It would help if they weren’t run down by tories at every turn for being lazy and waiting for their gold plated pensions. |
Which in itself is a massive irony, those lazy, greedy, gasping feckers in the tory party who enrich themselves at the publics expense, calling others who work long hours, in much harder jobs and ften get a lot of abuse in return, calling them lazy and/or greedy?
The tories need to be put back in their box and forgotten about fir a decade to give the bvius winners a chane to change things for the better.
The sad truth is though, all the damage that has been done by both parties over the last 40 years will need closer to 60 years of good government to fix properly, it's a generation of hard work yet the people who have caused this will sit back and laugh with their massive pensions and 3 part time jobs that pay tens or even hundreds of thousands for a few hours work per month.
What the politicians have done to this country is criminal. |  | | |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 19:54 - Mar 30 with 949 views | AnotherJohn |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 17:29 - Mar 30 by Gwyn737 |
It’s not a failure of education. As you say, we are the the 6th wealthiest economy in the world so schooling can’t be that bad.
There are plenty bright enough to enter the profession but choose not to. If those reasons were addressed we’d have much less of a problem.
NB. Bear in mind that outside of Black Caribbean boys the worst performing group academically are white working class boys. A huge group that pulls the average down. |
I don't think the problem is that young people don't want to enter what is a prestigious and pretty well-paid occupation. The problem to my mind is that successive governments have operated with caps on numbers of funded studentships and were very slow to expand the number of medical schools. Applications for places have always comfortably exceeded places available. It is also the case that nursing studentship numbers have been capped. In both cases, government workforce planning has been abysmal, including in our own neck of the woods right back to Welsh Office days. Instead, policy makers have preferred to recruit professionals trained overseas, very often in lower or middle income countries that are then left with workforce shortages. The only exception is probably GPs in remote rural areas like the Welsh valleys where South Asian doctors did step in to work in locations that others were not keen on (Julian Tudor Hart being a notable exception). | | | |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 20:22 - Mar 30 with 929 views | Dr_Winston |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 19:54 - Mar 30 by AnotherJohn |
I don't think the problem is that young people don't want to enter what is a prestigious and pretty well-paid occupation. The problem to my mind is that successive governments have operated with caps on numbers of funded studentships and were very slow to expand the number of medical schools. Applications for places have always comfortably exceeded places available. It is also the case that nursing studentship numbers have been capped. In both cases, government workforce planning has been abysmal, including in our own neck of the woods right back to Welsh Office days. Instead, policy makers have preferred to recruit professionals trained overseas, very often in lower or middle income countries that are then left with workforce shortages. The only exception is probably GPs in remote rural areas like the Welsh valleys where South Asian doctors did step in to work in locations that others were not keen on (Julian Tudor Hart being a notable exception). |
Probably a lot of truth to that. Far easier and cheaper to import already qualified (or near to it) staff from abroad.
I've always maintained that certain NHS professions requiring a degree should be subsidised significantly by the Govt in return for a commitment to NHS service once fully qualified. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 20:31 - Mar 30 with 912 views | Whiterockin |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 20:22 - Mar 30 by Dr_Winston |
Probably a lot of truth to that. Far easier and cheaper to import already qualified (or near to it) staff from abroad.
I've always maintained that certain NHS professions requiring a degree should be subsidised significantly by the Govt in return for a commitment to NHS service once fully qualified. |
10 years service get 50% of your university fees back. 15 years the other 50%. | | | |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 20:39 - Mar 30 with 899 views | AnotherJohn |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 20:22 - Mar 30 by Dr_Winston |
Probably a lot of truth to that. Far easier and cheaper to import already qualified (or near to it) staff from abroad.
I've always maintained that certain NHS professions requiring a degree should be subsidised significantly by the Govt in return for a commitment to NHS service once fully qualified. |
Yes, this is an approach that several lower and middle income countries take, partly to stop countries like ours plundering their recent graduates. In some schemes students have to agree to a period of working in rural areas as well as a specified number of years in country. Actually NHS Wales operates a pale shadow of this with the NHS bursary scheme. Nurses have to agree to work in Wales for two years (for those on a 3 year course). The scheme also applies to some other health professions, but crucially not medicine or dentistry. All I'd say is that the bursaries are not particularly generous.
https://heiw.nhs.wales/files/faq-general-bursary-terms-conditions/ | | | |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 20:57 - Mar 30 with 887 views | Dr_Winston |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 20:31 - Mar 30 by Whiterockin |
10 years service get 50% of your university fees back. 15 years the other 50%. |
Not even claim it back. I'd subsidise the entire training. Fees, accommodation costs and even a moderate stipend in return for exclusive NHS service for an appropriate length of time depending upon outlay.
I've banged this drum before, but all politicians (and senior civil servants) seem to want to do is more of the same. I was actually kinda hoping that Dominic Cummings "Tear it all down" approach would actually come to something because doing the same stuff that we've always done isn't working. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 11:24 - Mar 31 with 786 views | controversial_jack |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 20:31 - Mar 30 by Whiterockin |
10 years service get 50% of your university fees back. 15 years the other 50%. |
I doubt anyone would tie themselves down to 10 years of service, after doing 7 in training. It's a non starter | | | |
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| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 11:53 - Mar 31 with 775 views | Whiterockin |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 11:24 - Mar 31 by controversial_jack |
I doubt anyone would tie themselves down to 10 years of service, after doing 7 in training. It's a non starter |
I didn't say they had to tie themselves down, just have it as an incentive to stay in the NHS. Obviously they are going to do the "service" somewhere, it might just be enough of a sweeter to stop them taking a job abroad. | | | |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 12:15 - Mar 31 with 756 views | JumpingJackFlash |
People doing nursing degrees and some other health professional qualifications in Wales don’t pay course fees. They also get a bursary which is at least £1000 non means tested but can rise to £5000 means tested.
They have to agree to work in the Welsh NHS for a minimum of two years to access the funding.
Personally, I would make it 5 years working in Wales. Despite this, applications for nursing declined by 16% in 2023 and have declined further for the selection process which is currently ongoing at Swansea University. Many universities’ figures are even worse than the Swansea ones. Swansea is very highly rated by the NMC for nurse education.
The Welsh government decides the number of places that they fund and constantly seem to be reactive rather than proactive. Looking even three years ahead (the time it takes to train a nurse) seems to be too difficult for them. | | | |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 12:47 - Mar 31 with 729 views | majorraglan |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 12:15 - Mar 31 by JumpingJackFlash |
People doing nursing degrees and some other health professional qualifications in Wales don’t pay course fees. They also get a bursary which is at least £1000 non means tested but can rise to £5000 means tested.
They have to agree to work in the Welsh NHS for a minimum of two years to access the funding.
Personally, I would make it 5 years working in Wales. Despite this, applications for nursing declined by 16% in 2023 and have declined further for the selection process which is currently ongoing at Swansea University. Many universities’ figures are even worse than the Swansea ones. Swansea is very highly rated by the NMC for nurse education.
The Welsh government decides the number of places that they fund and constantly seem to be reactive rather than proactive. Looking even three years ahead (the time it takes to train a nurse) seems to be too difficult for them. |
Some really good points here.
In terms of the lack of long term planning, it’s a major issue in the UK as all the governments are kicking the can down the road in terms of long term decisions, we see it in health, energy security, transportation etc. We need to revisit our approach to our strategic planning. | | | |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 12:53 - Mar 31 with 702 views | Gwyn737 |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 20:57 - Mar 30 by Dr_Winston |
Not even claim it back. I'd subsidise the entire training. Fees, accommodation costs and even a moderate stipend in return for exclusive NHS service for an appropriate length of time depending upon outlay.
I've banged this drum before, but all politicians (and senior civil servants) seem to want to do is more of the same. I was actually kinda hoping that Dominic Cummings "Tear it all down" approach would actually come to something because doing the same stuff that we've always done isn't working. |
It’s very likely Labour will bring something of this nature for teaching in its first parliament.
Last year secondary teacher trainees only recruited around half those required. There are some stark figures in that figure such as 57% of physicians places were taken from candidates from abroad.
As I said about the NHS, it’s not just pay that is putting people off, there are other factors that need sorting too. | | | |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 14:14 - Mar 31 with 656 views | Dr_Winston |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 12:53 - Mar 31 by Gwyn737 |
It’s very likely Labour will bring something of this nature for teaching in its first parliament.
Last year secondary teacher trainees only recruited around half those required. There are some stark figures in that figure such as 57% of physicians places were taken from candidates from abroad.
As I said about the NHS, it’s not just pay that is putting people off, there are other factors that need sorting too. |
From what I can gather from people I know who are or were teachers, the biggest problem with recruitment and retention in that profession is the poor behaviour of the kids and the complete lack of support from parents and appropriate authorities in dealing with it. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 15:42 - Mar 31 with 623 views | Gwyn737 |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 14:14 - Mar 31 by Dr_Winston |
From what I can gather from people I know who are or were teachers, the biggest problem with recruitment and retention in that profession is the poor behaviour of the kids and the complete lack of support from parents and appropriate authorities in dealing with it. |
Very much so.
It’s also the impact of the crisis in health and social care. Issues not addressed there find their ways into schools. | | | |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 19:49 - Mar 31 with 576 views | SullutaCreturned |
| This is yet another reason why this country is doomed on 15:42 - Mar 31 by Gwyn737 |
Very much so.
It’s also the impact of the crisis in health and social care. Issues not addressed there find their ways into schools. |
What it all comes back to is a failue of government.
I'm not confident labour will be better but we have to be rid of this tory nonsense, whatever happens. | | | |
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