| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? 10:50 - Jul 8 with 15178 views | RsinWales |
I am not usually a 'sky is falling in' kind of person, but I am starting to get a feeling of dread about the new season.
We've said goodbye to a few players, which is fine, but we seem to be very vulnerable now.
No Director of Football to be in place before the start of the season, and yet surely we need to do a lot of recruitment to be anywhere near competitive for next season. Surely this is a crucial phase for having a strategic approach to building a way forward, after a somewhat fragmented approach over several years e.g. having a supposed strategy but regularly deviating from it.
I can't see the sense in assembling a new squad in the absence of a DoF, and then bringing one on board?
Clive has been clear that we need income to begin any significant recruitment, but other than Dieng, we don't look close to selling any of the players that might enable that.
I think we could all see how far off the pace we were last year, and the last time I felt so concerned about our chances of success, was at the time of the no cash, no players summer under Holloway. At least that was in League One.
If we do bring in any players, it looks like there will be relatively little time to integrate into the team. It just feels like we are wandering into calamity, with little more than hope associated with Ainsworth's optimism. I love the guy and want him to succeed, but we seem to be creating the conditions for failure. |  | | |  |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 16:14 - Jul 8 with 3126 views | VancouverHoop |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 11:52 - Jul 8 by TomMorgz7 |
Middlesbrough look like they might be going for it too... |
Yup. Signed six players this week. | | | |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 16:56 - Jul 8 with 3018 views | QPROslo |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 15:49 - Jul 8 by MelakaRanger |
Me too. And that first year in Divison 1 where we won just 3 games. Lets hope next season isnt as bad as that one.......... |
Sorry, down voted by mistake. | | | |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 16:56 - Jul 8 with 3017 views | Antti_Heinola |
I'm usually very optimistic. I was even optimistic under JFH.
But this season is going to be dreadful - and we're far from bottoming out - that's still a couple of seasons away. |  |
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| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 17:58 - Jul 8 with 2927 views | Sakura |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 16:56 - Jul 8 by Antti_Heinola |
I'm usually very optimistic. I was even optimistic under JFH.
But this season is going to be dreadful - and we're far from bottoming out - that's still a couple of seasons away. |
This is the last season before the 21/22 season blow out drops out
So I'm wondering if the late reporting of accounts has confused you into thinking the bottoming is a couple of seasons out
We are allowed £39m loss across three years.
20/21 - we know we lost £4.1m
21/22- we know we lost £24.7m
22/23- we can lose then £10.1m. So unless you believe we failed FFP that means our budget for this season can be a £4.2m loss:
21/22- we lost £24.7m
22/23- we can assume lost at a maximum £10.1m.
23/24- we can lose £4.2m
That would mean next summer we would be going into the season
22/23- can assume £10.1m loss
23/24- can assume £4.2m loss
24/25- Have £24.7m headroom back again so can reinvest
So with this time next year we have a lot of room again with the budget so can't see why you think bottoming out is a couple of years away | | | |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 18:05 - Jul 8 with 2892 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 11:11 - Jul 8 by GaryBannister86 |
Good post. Dieng and Dickie may have lost form, but they were quite clearly players who had (i) talent and (ii) the ability to actually get on the pitch week after week.
To remove them and have to rely on ageing crocks and whatever cloggers Ainsworth can dig up has to be worrying. All logic states we are going to be in for an almighty struggle and the starting fixtures just add to the problems.
Dykes signing was absolutely vital to us having any chance, so there is that glimmer. Smyth may be OK, but I hope we don't re-sign Martin and Balogun.
I will be pleasantly surprised if GA is still our manager by late October and we aren't in the bottom three. |
Dieng and Dickie clearly didn't want to sign new contracts and wanted to leave, though at the same time, poor though they were for much of last season, I don't see us replacing them. More and more, with the amaterish releases/retentions of Balogu and Martin, the League 1/2 recruitment and noises about a 'smaller squad', as I've pointed out before, it's clear to me that the club is engaging in downwardly managed expectations. GA has already said it was some kind of miracle achievement we stayed up last season, even though we were still well ahead of the bottom three when he arrived, which told me a lot. I strongly suspect his disingenuous rhetoric is ventriloquised from Hoos and the owners, and as usual it's we fans who are taken for mugs.
As for this season, I'm sh*tting myself. |  |
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| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 19:42 - Jul 8 with 2801 views | connell10 |
I personally think we are f ucked. |  |
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| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 19:57 - Jul 8 with 2780 views | BushRanger82 |
Unless the squad drastically improves, I expect our best starting eleven to start every competitive first team game.
The only changes I want to see next season to any starting eleven, is enforced ones.
And by enforced, I mean changes due to injuries or suspensions.
We haven't a squad capable of fielding 2 almost entirely different teams in the space of a few days, and it's no good pretending otherwise. |  | | |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 20:01 - Jul 8 with 2754 views | Sonofpugwash |
The only light at the end of the tunnel is on the front of a train coming the way.
Can't remember when I've been so pessimistic about an upcoming season. |  |
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| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 20:02 - Jul 8 with 2755 views | Rangersw12 |
Genuinely think we will be bottom 3 come 5 pm on the opening day and we will stay there all season . | | | |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 21:28 - Jul 8 with 2677 views | bongo_king |
There's a lot of doom and gloom on here. And sadly I hold a lot of the same fears at the mo.
Team clearly short; financial constraints; no DOF to oversee the signings, so a manger who the jury is very much out on having free reign for the foreseeable; and a crap result today with not the greatest friendly line up for the rest of our preseason.
The bits which give me hope are: the signings have been quite OK so far (IMO); we've kind of been here before (bits of last season remind me of the 2009/10 one and we all know what happened next); and finally good off the pitch news in the training ground.
My gut says that either next season will be the massive struggle we fear (i.e. constantly in the bottom 6) or we'll massively exceed expectations and find ourselves top 10. At the minute the struggle seems more likely but lets see what the next weeks bring in terms of squad and pre season performances. | | | |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 22:13 - Jul 8 with 2614 views | SimonD |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 17:58 - Jul 8 by Sakura |
This is the last season before the 21/22 season blow out drops out
So I'm wondering if the late reporting of accounts has confused you into thinking the bottoming is a couple of seasons out
We are allowed £39m loss across three years.
20/21 - we know we lost £4.1m
21/22- we know we lost £24.7m
22/23- we can lose then £10.1m. So unless you believe we failed FFP that means our budget for this season can be a £4.2m loss:
21/22- we lost £24.7m
22/23- we can assume lost at a maximum £10.1m.
23/24- we can lose £4.2m
That would mean next summer we would be going into the season
22/23- can assume £10.1m loss
23/24- can assume £4.2m loss
24/25- Have £24.7m headroom back again so can reinvest
So with this time next year we have a lot of room again with the budget so can't see why you think bottoming out is a couple of years away |
As reluctant as I am to risk dragging this thread down the financial route, there are a couple of oversights which I cannot let pass.
These figures ignore the fact that, in an attempt to minimize the effects of covid, 2019/20 and 2020/21 season are, for FFP purposes, averaged and treated as one season. This results in an averaged loss of £10,254 for those seasons. The second oversight is there is no consideration for the disallowable costs which have been estimated by Swiss Ramble at £4m per season.
I will take a lot of persuading to believe that last season’s loss was over £14m less than the previous season. £27.4m down to £10.1m? How likely does that seem? | | | |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 22:35 - Jul 8 with 2568 views | Lblock |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 22:13 - Jul 8 by SimonD |
As reluctant as I am to risk dragging this thread down the financial route, there are a couple of oversights which I cannot let pass.
These figures ignore the fact that, in an attempt to minimize the effects of covid, 2019/20 and 2020/21 season are, for FFP purposes, averaged and treated as one season. This results in an averaged loss of £10,254 for those seasons. The second oversight is there is no consideration for the disallowable costs which have been estimated by Swiss Ramble at £4m per season.
I will take a lot of persuading to believe that last season’s loss was over £14m less than the previous season. £27.4m down to £10.1m? How likely does that seem? |
Pointless asking this individual sensible questions
They refuse to face facts or back up their views |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 08:57 - Jul 9 with 2270 views | Sakura |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 22:13 - Jul 8 by SimonD |
As reluctant as I am to risk dragging this thread down the financial route, there are a couple of oversights which I cannot let pass.
These figures ignore the fact that, in an attempt to minimize the effects of covid, 2019/20 and 2020/21 season are, for FFP purposes, averaged and treated as one season. This results in an averaged loss of £10,254 for those seasons. The second oversight is there is no consideration for the disallowable costs which have been estimated by Swiss Ramble at £4m per season.
I will take a lot of persuading to believe that last season’s loss was over £14m less than the previous season. £27.4m down to £10.1m? How likely does that seem? |
Firstly to add context for others while the accounts being published next, in February 2024 those will be reporting the accounting period 1/6/22- 31/5/23
So whether you think it’s likely we got a loss down from £24.7m to £10.1m depends on whether you think we have already failed FFP. So regardless if we suddenly get £10m+ for Chair and another £8m or so for Willock and Field it won’t matter. We will have failed FFP as we needed to lose £10.1m at most during the period 1/6/22- 31/5/23
Can you make clear what you see as the amount lost by the club for:
- 20/21 season
- 21/22 season
As then we can make an estimate of max loss for 22/23 season to meet FFP £39m across three seasons
And from that you can make a projection of max loss for this 1/6/23- 31/5/24 season
From your post here it seems you are saying:
- 20/21 season £10.25m loss
- 21/22 season £10.25m loss
So 22/23 we could lose £18.5m
Which would mean for this 23/24 season we can lose £10.25m which is an £8.25m saving on last season
And for me that’s the important context what do we believe we lost last season and so how much savings do we need to make compared to that for this season
If you’re saying it’s £8.25m of savings well that’s great news, Dieng and Dickie sales, Eze add ons (England cap at least), a lot of significant wages not on the books now. I think we are a long way there
(EDIT I am asking this to put some context around the incessant doom posting - when posters claim “we have no money”, well let’s set the context how much are we saying? Is it an £8m saving vs last season, ok how are we tracking on that. Not just doom posting about financials without knowing the actual numbers) [Post edited 9 Jul 2023 9:34]
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| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 08:58 - Jul 9 with 2266 views | Sakura |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 22:35 - Jul 8 by Lblock |
Pointless asking this individual sensible questions
They refuse to face facts or back up their views |
Meow | | | |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 12:38 - Jul 9 with 2113 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 21:28 - Jul 8 by bongo_king |
There's a lot of doom and gloom on here. And sadly I hold a lot of the same fears at the mo.
Team clearly short; financial constraints; no DOF to oversee the signings, so a manger who the jury is very much out on having free reign for the foreseeable; and a crap result today with not the greatest friendly line up for the rest of our preseason.
The bits which give me hope are: the signings have been quite OK so far (IMO); we've kind of been here before (bits of last season remind me of the 2009/10 one and we all know what happened next); and finally good off the pitch news in the training ground.
My gut says that either next season will be the massive struggle we fear (i.e. constantly in the bottom 6) or we'll massively exceed expectations and find ourselves top 10. At the minute the struggle seems more likely but lets see what the next weeks bring in terms of squad and pre season performances. |
I'm confused - you have two guts? | |
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| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 12:52 - Jul 9 with 2092 views | E17hoop |
I'm not apprehensive. We are a lower half Championship club and to assume we're anything other is when we're in a performing year. So my expectation is lower half of the Championship and I haven't seen anything to challenge that view yet.
For example, how have Cardiff been doing pre-season? 2 wins against Welsh Prem teams and a draw against Cambridge. Can't afford a tour and are scrimping to save cash everywhere.
What happens to Hudderrsfield if they don't destroy Bodmin Town tomorrow?
Plymouth beat Hearts in a very casual friendly in Ibiza. Does that make them a top 6 contender.
I have no idea. We have no idea. We're still 3 weeks out and lots will happen before the start of the season - have we seen Smyth or Kelman in a pre-season friendly yet?
Let's have a look after the first few games before we decide to destroy the team. |  |
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| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 13:22 - Jul 9 with 2042 views | BrianWilson |
Gotta say I'm disappointed in Ainsworths interviews. There's a lot of BS. For instance Europa Conference Lge? doesn't get anyway serious until latter stages and Praha came third in a very average group.
It's unneccesary deflection to mention stuff like this. We know they are ahead of us in terms of pre-season. He talks about being ready for kickoff with nothing to back it up. I've never felt less confident in a QPR manager. He needs to be given a chance now of course but it looks very bleak. |  |
| "a diseased bunch of mofos if there ever was one, their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons."
- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys |
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| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 14:13 - Jul 9 with 1969 views | kensalriser |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 12:38 - Jul 9 by stainrods_elbow |
I'm confused - you have two guts? |
Small intestine and large intestine. |  |
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| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 14:18 - Jul 9 with 1953 views | Sonofpugwash |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 12:38 - Jul 9 by stainrods_elbow |
I'm confused - you have two guts? |
Semi colon? | |
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| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 15:03 - Jul 9 with 1922 views | SimonD |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 08:57 - Jul 9 by Sakura |
Firstly to add context for others while the accounts being published next, in February 2024 those will be reporting the accounting period 1/6/22- 31/5/23
So whether you think it’s likely we got a loss down from £24.7m to £10.1m depends on whether you think we have already failed FFP. So regardless if we suddenly get £10m+ for Chair and another £8m or so for Willock and Field it won’t matter. We will have failed FFP as we needed to lose £10.1m at most during the period 1/6/22- 31/5/23
Can you make clear what you see as the amount lost by the club for:
- 20/21 season
- 21/22 season
As then we can make an estimate of max loss for 22/23 season to meet FFP £39m across three seasons
And from that you can make a projection of max loss for this 1/6/23- 31/5/24 season
From your post here it seems you are saying:
- 20/21 season £10.25m loss
- 21/22 season £10.25m loss
So 22/23 we could lose £18.5m
Which would mean for this 23/24 season we can lose £10.25m which is an £8.25m saving on last season
And for me that’s the important context what do we believe we lost last season and so how much savings do we need to make compared to that for this season
If you’re saying it’s £8.25m of savings well that’s great news, Dieng and Dickie sales, Eze add ons (England cap at least), a lot of significant wages not on the books now. I think we are a long way there
(EDIT I am asking this to put some context around the incessant doom posting - when posters claim “we have no money”, well let’s set the context how much are we saying? Is it an £8m saving vs last season, ok how are we tracking on that. Not just doom posting about financials without knowing the actual numbers) [Post edited 9 Jul 2023 9:34]
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What the accounts show the club lost in any season and the loss for FFP purposes are not the same. There are disallowable costs to be taken into consideration and for the combined 2019/20 and 20/21 seasons there are additional Covid losses to be deducted. We also have the amortised cost charge for our FFP fine to remove from the loss. The third table in the attached article list these out. It then goes on to explain why I believe we need to reduce our loss by £10m this season.
to this effect, I think both Dickie and Dieng were entering the last year of their respective contracts so we can count all of their transfer fees towards that figure. Extending Dykes' contract will also reduce his amortisation cost as his remaining net book value will now be spread across a longer period.
Hopefully Eze's England cap will trigger a payment from Palace, but obviously we don't know how much that will be. Releasing players like Amos will obviously reduce our wage bill, but we will have to sign some more players to bolster the squad and even if these are free transfers there will still be signing on fees and agents' fees to take into consideration. This all becomes little more than speculation as these wages and fees are not known.
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/news/59765/on-the-edge- [Post edited 9 Jul 2023 15:04]
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| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 16:38 - Jul 9 with 1820 views | davman |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 20:02 - Jul 8 by Rangersw12 |
Genuinely think we will be bottom 3 come 5 pm on the opening day and we will stay there all season . |
Think you might be optimistic. We'll be in the bottom one and will stay there all season... |  |
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| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 17:01 - Jul 9 with 1754 views | extratimeR |
There are some excellent posts on here, ( and the comparison to the Holloway side is spot on).
It's as grim as I can remember, and although we will be attending all home games we will perhaps be concentrating more on the socialising side, in order to deaden the pain. | | | |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 17:19 - Jul 9 with 1701 views | charmr |
Yes | | | |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 19:30 - Jul 9 with 1569 views | Sakura |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 15:03 - Jul 9 by SimonD |
What the accounts show the club lost in any season and the loss for FFP purposes are not the same. There are disallowable costs to be taken into consideration and for the combined 2019/20 and 20/21 seasons there are additional Covid losses to be deducted. We also have the amortised cost charge for our FFP fine to remove from the loss. The third table in the attached article list these out. It then goes on to explain why I believe we need to reduce our loss by £10m this season.
to this effect, I think both Dickie and Dieng were entering the last year of their respective contracts so we can count all of their transfer fees towards that figure. Extending Dykes' contract will also reduce his amortisation cost as his remaining net book value will now be spread across a longer period.
Hopefully Eze's England cap will trigger a payment from Palace, but obviously we don't know how much that will be. Releasing players like Amos will obviously reduce our wage bill, but we will have to sign some more players to bolster the squad and even if these are free transfers there will still be signing on fees and agents' fees to take into consideration. This all becomes little more than speculation as these wages and fees are not known.
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/news/59765/on-the-edge- [Post edited 9 Jul 2023 15:04]
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It seems we agree on my original point that brought the finances side back up here 21/22 blow out Warburton promotion push season drops out after this season. Not after that as Antti’s post had seemed to imply
So let’s go with that £10m of savings vs last seasons spending
I agree it becomes speculation but the default amongst the fan base is to be overly negative and I think that can harm things. I just want to put a more positive view point out there because I get tired of the relentless pessimism from some
Mentioned before it seems a psychological defence mechanism amongst the fan base so scarred by the last 18 months they just want to have no hope at all. “The hope that kills you” means that chunks of our fans have decided to have no hope at all. I see the attitude of the likes of Wilkinswatercarrier on here as the equivalent of a 38 year old women buying a cat and deleting Tinder off the phone because “all men are bastards”. But instead Wilkins says he’s given up because “we have no money!!!”
Well, is that true?
Turns out we need to find roughly £10m of savings compared to last year. Then the £20m loss drops out and we have headroom back again to push on. So let’s not get toxic we can get through this season with a solid base and push on. Let’s have some optimism for the future
So back to that £10m of savings compared to last season
We know the Eze deal had add ons of £4m and it is perfectly reasonable to say that it’s much more likely that they will have all been triggered by the end of this season (if not already). We know the England cap was part of it as well
So that’s £6m left to find. World Cup money is £500k so that leaves £5.5m
Then fees for Dieng and Dickie. Plus amortisation improvement on Dickie means we have just £2.5m left to find
Off the wage bill already are Roberts, Laird, Amos, Johansen, Dickie, Dieng, Masterson, Travelman, Shodipo, Bonne, Thomas, Balogun. £90,000 a week combined at a conservative estimate. That is £4.7m saved
So £2.2m in the black so stopping there gives £42,000 a week wages to put replacements together
A sale for Chair or Field would need to be a proper fee and there is no longer a need to accept a low ball offer on 31st August as we are already there
But if it happens it can now go straight into improving the squad and not covering financial holes because of the work already done
Willock too is the early sale the club would like to further strengthen but I suspect he’s going to need to prove his form and fitness before that happens maybe mid August
The released players, the early sales and clear out of Johansen and likes of Travelman mean we have a good foundation to begin the rebuild now [Post edited 9 Jul 2023 19:35]
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| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 20:12 - Jul 9 with 1519 views | essextaxiboy |
| Anyone else getting a bit apprehensive? on 17:01 - Jul 9 by extratimeR |
There are some excellent posts on here, ( and the comparison to the Holloway side is spot on).
It's as grim as I can remember, and although we will be attending all home games we will perhaps be concentrating more on the socialising side, in order to deaden the pain. |
With respect , speak for yourself .
I will be there to watch and get behind the team . |  | | |
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