| Watching Forest tonight 20:36 - Oct 10 with 4553 views | KeithHaynes |
I can see why their fans are frustrated, it’s similar in a lot of ways to when Cooper was at Swansea. The obvious passes being missed, frantic determination on the ball. Credit to then, god loves a trier. |  |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 07:53 - Oct 11 with 767 views | STID2017 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 07:34 - Oct 11 by Dr_Winston |
If they succeed then they're Cooper signings. If they fail then they were foisted on him and actually he wanted someone else.
That's generally how it works. |
Indeed.
Makes no sense that when his stock was highest following the promotion in the summer, he would allow himself ( by some accounts ) to be bullied into taking players he didn't want.
Then now it is a done deal he accepts the contract ?
As a couple have said he will be gone well before season's end |  |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 08:04 - Oct 11 with 745 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 07:34 - Oct 11 by Dr_Winston |
If they succeed then they're Cooper signings. If they fail then they were foisted on him and actually he wanted someone else.
That's generally how it works. |
Not at all, I think it’s pretty obvious which are his players and which aren’t. You don’t have to be Einstein to figure that out - but when you have a vendetta against him it’s easy to pretend you don’t know how it works.
I have no idea who will be (or has been) successful, it’s only been a handful of games. But it’s fairly obvious Gibbs White, Williams and Hennessy are his signings - the rest don’t appear Cooper type signings, many not even starting regularly.
Very similar to his January here when he was given Jordan Morris, Ben Hamer, Kieron Freeman and Paul Arriola - or are we going to pretend he wanted all them too?
All for Cooper discussions, but they get very silly with people suddenly forgetting how football works as and when convenient. |  |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 08:04 - Oct 11 with 750 views | GixerJack |
| Watching Forest tonight on 07:39 - Oct 11 by Whiterockin |
The new contract means nothing if they want him out he will be gone, just the same as if he wants to leave he will. |
The difference being with 3 years on his contract he’ll get a handsome payoff |  | | |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:07 - Oct 11 with 743 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 07:53 - Oct 11 by STID2017 |
Indeed.
Makes no sense that when his stock was highest following the promotion in the summer, he would allow himself ( by some accounts ) to be bullied into taking players he didn't want.
Then now it is a done deal he accepts the contract ?
As a couple have said he will be gone well before season's end |
Nothing to do with being bullied. It’s how football works.
Was he bullied into taking on the glut of players in January for us?
Was Russell Martin bullied into taking Ogbeta, Oko-Flex, Ntcham, Walsh, Williams and Burns? Or are we perfectly understanding how football works when it comes to Russell Martin?
Sense chaps, sense. | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 08:12 - Oct 11 with 721 views | magicdaps10 |
Watched it last night and it was shocking stuff, both teams who have spent millions of pounds to produce that garbage......there is certainly better quality football in the champ.
The passing, movement and control was absolutely shocking.
You can understand why both managers have been mentioned for the chop and if they carry on producing that garbage then they will be gone soon enough, of course they can turn it around but they haven't shown any indications of it this season and have to pull their socks up very quickly.
There we go that's my opinion on it and it's 90 odd minutes I will be er have returned........it was honestly that bad 🙈 |  |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 08:13 - Oct 11 with 717 views | Dr_Winston |
| Watching Forest tonight on 07:53 - Oct 11 by STID2017 |
Indeed.
Makes no sense that when his stock was highest following the promotion in the summer, he would allow himself ( by some accounts ) to be bullied into taking players he didn't want.
Then now it is a done deal he accepts the contract ?
As a couple have said he will be gone well before season's end |
I don't doubt that they signed a certain amount of players just to fill the squad up and he probably wouldn't have been all that bothered about some of them. There are players that they brought in and then immediately sent back out on loan, plus the traditional experienced heads that a lot of promoted teams bring in, like Kouyate.
There's no way on Earth that he didn't have input into some of the biggest though. MGW was absolutely someone he insisted on given the price that they went to. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 08:21 - Oct 11 with 691 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:13 - Oct 11 by Dr_Winston |
I don't doubt that they signed a certain amount of players just to fill the squad up and he probably wouldn't have been all that bothered about some of them. There are players that they brought in and then immediately sent back out on loan, plus the traditional experienced heads that a lot of promoted teams bring in, like Kouyate.
There's no way on Earth that he didn't have input into some of the biggest though. MGW was absolutely someone he insisted on given the price that they went to. |
So you agree with me then.
Gibbs White, Williams and the keepers being the obvious ones.
The rest I have severe reservations about with regards to his input, as should everyone else with a fair mind. Not that a fair mind is of course something many wish to apply considering we are talking about Cooper who is of course still public enemy #1 after making so many look so silly. | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 08:23 - Oct 11 with 687 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:12 - Oct 11 by magicdaps10 |
Watched it last night and it was shocking stuff, both teams who have spent millions of pounds to produce that garbage......there is certainly better quality football in the champ.
The passing, movement and control was absolutely shocking.
You can understand why both managers have been mentioned for the chop and if they carry on producing that garbage then they will be gone soon enough, of course they can turn it around but they haven't shown any indications of it this season and have to pull their socks up very quickly.
There we go that's my opinion on it and it's 90 odd minutes I will be er have returned........it was honestly that bad 🙈 |
What happened to patience?
He’s been in that job less time than our Russ. Don’t think you have ever called any of our awful performances (and there have been many) “garbage”.
Understanding and patience. Come on Daps you know that don’t you?  | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 08:25 - Oct 11 with 686 views | Whiterockin |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:04 - Oct 11 by GixerJack |
The difference being with 3 years on his contract he’ll get a handsome payoff |
You are assuming there is not the walk away clause in the contract working both ways. |  | | |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:29 - Oct 11 with 673 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:25 - Oct 11 by Whiterockin |
You are assuming there is not the walk away clause in the contract working both ways. |
Seems extremely unlikely to me. Hardly something to tempt him to sign when he could walk into most available jobs underneath the big 4.
It appears to be more likely that assurances have been given over control of incoming players. He wasn’t signing the contract when they were bringing in players left, right and centre - if that was with the blessing of Coops then he would be signing right away, thrilled with the backing.
He’s a canny manager as we have seen and as he has shown over his career, one of the best in the country. He will know more than most that you don’t get success or build team spirit by signing 25 players in one summer.
But we all know that. | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 08:31 - Oct 11 with 666 views | Whiterockin |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:29 - Oct 11 by Dr_Parnassus |
Seems extremely unlikely to me. Hardly something to tempt him to sign when he could walk into most available jobs underneath the big 4.
It appears to be more likely that assurances have been given over control of incoming players. He wasn’t signing the contract when they were bringing in players left, right and centre - if that was with the blessing of Coops then he would be signing right away, thrilled with the backing.
He’s a canny manager as we have seen and as he has shown over his career, one of the best in the country. He will know more than most that you don’t get success or build team spirit by signing 25 players in one summer.
But we all know that. |
We shall just have to wait and see how it pans out.  | | | |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:56 - Oct 11 with 640 views | jack247 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:07 - Oct 11 by Dr_Parnassus |
Nothing to do with being bullied. It’s how football works.
Was he bullied into taking on the glut of players in January for us?
Was Russell Martin bullied into taking Ogbeta, Oko-Flex, Ntcham, Walsh, Williams and Burns? Or are we perfectly understanding how football works when it comes to Russell Martin?
Sense chaps, sense. |
Were you defending Martin over those signings?
It does kind of seem that if Martin does well, there’s a caveat, if Cooper does badly, there’s a caveat. |  | | |
| Watching Forest tonight on 09:04 - Oct 11 with 630 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:56 - Oct 11 by jack247 |
Were you defending Martin over those signings?
It does kind of seem that if Martin does well, there’s a caveat, if Cooper does badly, there’s a caveat. |
Defending in terms of what?
I have never claimed he brought them in if that is your question, it seems perfectly obvious he didn’t, doesn’t it?
There is no caveat to either doing well or badly, it’s simply reality. Martin is doing well now, great but we all know that is because he changed the style. Right? Nobody has made that up.
Forest not doing great at the moment. But it’s fairly obvious that is to do with what has gone on in the summer, we all know bringing in a whole new squad isn’t going make things click. Nobody has made that up either right?
So the truth is being stated, but there are twists put on them to defy common sense and logic.
1) we are to believe Martin’s new system was the plan along… despite it obviously not being the case by bringing in the likes of Fisher and drilling into the team to keep possession and pass count as high as possible at all costs - only to totally scrap both.
2) we are to believe Cooper knocked on the door of the owners to bring in 25 players, many of which he doesn’t look interested in playing, knowing full well how modern football works and how Cooper works… yet we are to forget common sense and believe the fantasy.
So the twists are being put on both, but probably not by the people you are referring to. | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 09:11 - Oct 11 with 622 views | jack247 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 09:04 - Oct 11 by Dr_Parnassus |
Defending in terms of what?
I have never claimed he brought them in if that is your question, it seems perfectly obvious he didn’t, doesn’t it?
There is no caveat to either doing well or badly, it’s simply reality. Martin is doing well now, great but we all know that is because he changed the style. Right? Nobody has made that up.
Forest not doing great at the moment. But it’s fairly obvious that is to do with what has gone on in the summer, we all know bringing in a whole new squad isn’t going make things click. Nobody has made that up either right?
So the truth is being stated, but there are twists put on them to defy common sense and logic.
1) we are to believe Martin’s new system was the plan along… despite it obviously not being the case by bringing in the likes of Fisher and drilling into the team to keep possession and pass count as high as possible at all costs - only to totally scrap both.
2) we are to believe Cooper knocked on the door of the owners to bring in 25 players, many of which he doesn’t look interested in playing, knowing full well how modern football works and how Cooper works… yet we are to forget common sense and believe the fantasy.
So the twists are being put on both, but probably not by the people you are referring to. |
You haven’t claimed he brought them in, but you also haven’t used them to defend poor results, as you did with Cooper when he was here and now he’s at Forest.
There’s nothing to say Martins style, as crazy as it was, wouldn’t have been more effective with the type of player he would have wanted. Same goes for Cooper. | | | |
| Watching Forest tonight on 09:16 - Oct 11 with 604 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 09:11 - Oct 11 by jack247 |
You haven’t claimed he brought them in, but you also haven’t used them to defend poor results, as you did with Cooper when he was here and now he’s at Forest.
There’s nothing to say Martins style, as crazy as it was, wouldn’t have been more effective with the type of player he would have wanted. Same goes for Cooper. |
I’m unsure what point you are making there.
Are you saying that you believe the signings of Ogbeta and Walsh are the reason we are not doing well and it’s something I have intentionally overlooked?
There is a rather large difference between brining in 25 players and brining in a few. One has a massive effect on the club, the other has minimal.
Pato, Obafemi, Fisher, Darling, Laird, Downes are all players I’m sure he wanted. That is on top of Allen (probably not his signing), Piroe, Grimes, Naughton et al.
Who do you think he would like to replace and isn’t up to his old way of playing do you think?
We seem to be skirting into the fantasy again here, see what I mean? | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 09:33 - Oct 11 with 580 views | jack247 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 09:16 - Oct 11 by Dr_Parnassus |
I’m unsure what point you are making there.
Are you saying that you believe the signings of Ogbeta and Walsh are the reason we are not doing well and it’s something I have intentionally overlooked?
There is a rather large difference between brining in 25 players and brining in a few. One has a massive effect on the club, the other has minimal.
Pato, Obafemi, Fisher, Darling, Laird, Downes are all players I’m sure he wanted. That is on top of Allen (probably not his signing), Piroe, Grimes, Naughton et al.
Who do you think he would like to replace and isn’t up to his old way of playing do you think?
We seem to be skirting into the fantasy again here, see what I mean? |
Same as bringing 25 in? No. Very similar to the scenario when we brought Arriola, Morris, Freeman in, absolutely.
As you say, minimal effect, but it was heavily alluded to by SC multiple times after that window.
It seems it’s a fair excuse for him, but with Martin, he gets roasted for not playing the likes of Ogbeta.
If Cooper changed Forests playing style now and went on a decent run, maybe took them to mid table, would you be caveating his success, or lauding him? | | | |
| Watching Forest tonight on 10:32 - Oct 11 with 523 views | SkipTheJack |
It's the same as when Cooper was here. He did really well with the players he already had, but the recruitment was generally awful. After two years at the club he hadn't made one permanent signing that was a regular in the team. After he left there was a major rebuilding job needed.
I know people could blame the owners for not giving him the players he wanted, but there will always be restrictions and good managers will work within them. It's probably a good thing we didn't sneak up under him, just to watch him chuck that amount of money down the drain. |  | | |
| Watching Forest tonight on 10:49 - Oct 11 with 512 views | STID2017 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 09:33 - Oct 11 by jack247 |
Same as bringing 25 in? No. Very similar to the scenario when we brought Arriola, Morris, Freeman in, absolutely.
As you say, minimal effect, but it was heavily alluded to by SC multiple times after that window.
It seems it’s a fair excuse for him, but with Martin, he gets roasted for not playing the likes of Ogbeta.
If Cooper changed Forests playing style now and went on a decent run, maybe took them to mid table, would you be caveating his success, or lauding him? |
For a poster who is lauded as being very astute by several on here, l find it amazing how many times he comes out with sentences like " Not sure what your point is ?" ( or similar ) as he has done in reply to you.
Not sure if it is a failure to understand your very clear and accurate argument or an unwillingness to understand it ? 🤔 | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 10:50 - Oct 11 with 512 views | magicdaps10 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 08:23 - Oct 11 by Dr_Parnassus |
What happened to patience?
He’s been in that job less time than our Russ. Don’t think you have ever called any of our awful performances (and there have been many) “garbage”.
Understanding and patience. Come on Daps you know that don’t you? |
I haven't called for either to be sacked and stated they can turn things around.
Unfortunately playing garbage whilst being in the relegation zone with little to no sign of improvement is not going to help the cause and can clearly be understood. | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 10:57 - Oct 11 with 508 views | STID2017 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 10:50 - Oct 11 by magicdaps10 |
I haven't called for either to be sacked and stated they can turn things around.
Unfortunately playing garbage whilst being in the relegation zone with little to no sign of improvement is not going to help the cause and can clearly be understood. |
Thing is ( and Dr P knows this ) the only opinion that matters is the powers that be at NFFC.
Their patience will not last too long if they fail to climb out of the relegation places.
Apart from a short period earlier this season, we have not been in a relegation position.
Therefore Dr P's ongoing comparison between SC at Forest and RM at Swans is like comparing apples and pears | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 11:53 - Oct 11 with 469 views | magicdaps10 |
| Watching Forest tonight on 10:57 - Oct 11 by STID2017 |
Thing is ( and Dr P knows this ) the only opinion that matters is the powers that be at NFFC.
Their patience will not last too long if they fail to climb out of the relegation places.
Apart from a short period earlier this season, we have not been in a relegation position.
Therefore Dr P's ongoing comparison between SC at Forest and RM at Swans is like comparing apples and pears |
I just wanted to clarify my post and my opinion.
I am not interested and have no time for the antagonising responses to try and belittle and create conflict.
The match was shocking and both managers are clearly in a bit of bother and you can understand why.........premier league survival is the holy grail, once there its all about staying there and doing what's needed to achieve that. | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 11:58 - Oct 11 with 462 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 09:33 - Oct 11 by jack247 |
Same as bringing 25 in? No. Very similar to the scenario when we brought Arriola, Morris, Freeman in, absolutely.
As you say, minimal effect, but it was heavily alluded to by SC multiple times after that window.
It seems it’s a fair excuse for him, but with Martin, he gets roasted for not playing the likes of Ogbeta.
If Cooper changed Forests playing style now and went on a decent run, maybe took them to mid table, would you be caveating his success, or lauding him? |
Not at all, what we didn’t bring in was being alluded to as why we couldn’t push on in January. He wanted a striker (we didn’t have one) yet was given everything but that. It’s a very important difference.
As I’ve asked. Who has Martin been crying out for but not been given in order to play his initial ridiculous style? I can’t think of a single position and all the signings seemed to be filled by players he used to work with.
Cooper has proven his style is successful, he got promoted with it in one of the best Championship seasons of any club in the leagues history - there would be no need for a caveat. However if he was playing a ludicrous style for 3 years with zero success on the spin - then he went on a run of 6 games, I’m sure their fans would be praising him with trepidation, I’m sure you agree.
We are dipping into the fantasy here again when the obvious answer is slapping us in the face. No need for the mental gymnastics with it. | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 12:00 - Oct 11 with 451 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 10:49 - Oct 11 by STID2017 |
For a poster who is lauded as being very astute by several on here, l find it amazing how many times he comes out with sentences like " Not sure what your point is ?" ( or similar ) as he has done in reply to you.
Not sure if it is a failure to understand your very clear and accurate argument or an unwillingness to understand it ? 🤔 |
So I have to understand every single point made?
I have no idea what the point is hence why we are discussing it further in depth, that’s what a debate is.
It turns out he has conflated who we didn’t bring in, with who we did bring in - hence the confusion. It has no likeness to the original discussion when it was being alluded to that it did. I had to press for better explanation to find that out because initially it wasn’t making sense, it turns out my initial thoughts were correct.
Pretty simple STID. | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 12:01 - Oct 11 with 449 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 10:50 - Oct 11 by magicdaps10 |
I haven't called for either to be sacked and stated they can turn things around.
Unfortunately playing garbage whilst being in the relegation zone with little to no sign of improvement is not going to help the cause and can clearly be understood. |
But others said Martin could theoretically turn it around if he changes the style, but you have accused them of lacking patience.
You need to be consistent here. | |
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| Watching Forest tonight on 12:04 - Oct 11 with 447 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Watching Forest tonight on 10:57 - Oct 11 by STID2017 |
Thing is ( and Dr P knows this ) the only opinion that matters is the powers that be at NFFC.
Their patience will not last too long if they fail to climb out of the relegation places.
Apart from a short period earlier this season, we have not been in a relegation position.
Therefore Dr P's ongoing comparison between SC at Forest and RM at Swans is like comparing apples and pears |
Where have I compared them?
I think you may be reading what you want to read.
My point is them signing 25+ players hasn’t helped matters, especially when most of them are clearly committee signings. I likened it to his January here where he needed a striker and got a load of un-needed rubbish.
How is that comparing him to RM?
Everyone’s opinion matters otherwise this thread wouldn’t exist. | |
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