| Does Brexit die tonight? 11:59 - Sep 3 with 34900 views | westwalesed |
When this bill passes, which I expect it to, my understanding is that the EU theoretically can propose a different extension to the proposed January 31st, 2020 date currently in the bill.
The bill states that the PM has to accept that date, and that Parliament has two days to either accept or reject it (thereby putting any future extension date in the hands of Parliament as opposed to the PM). Given that we have a remain leaning parliament currently it's hard tp see how any proposed date would be rejected.
PM Johnson would then seek an election as he has stated, but now that it is looking as if the opposition parties may not get to the two-thirds of MPs required to trigger it, there will be no election at all. What then?
With a Govt that has to accept any date given and Parliament refusing to give him an opportunity to change the make up of the Commons, is this the day that Brexit dies?
Is it revoking A50 by the back door? |  |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:33 - Sep 9 with 1293 views | Catullus |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:18 - Sep 9 by LeonWasGod |
Yellowhammer is base case. It says so on the document. The people that contributed to it have also confirmed it. Gove is lying (again). |
I'll have to take your word for it because I haven't read it but again, Cameron and Osborne told blatant lies and yellowhammer was prepared by remainers.....depending on who you choose to believe.
As I have said many times, I don't know what brexit will bring but I hope for the best. When it comes to politicians I can't name one I trust. Whichever side they are on they lie to us. Whatever actually happens, good or bad, the only thing I will predict is if it's bad, the already rich, politicans, power brokers, they will be barely affected and it will be the likes of us who will foot the bill but if it's good the likes of us will see crumbs and the already rich and powerful will reap most of the benefits. That's how it always seems to go. But hey, Nostradamus I am not so maybe I will be entirely wrong. | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:34 - Sep 9 with 1286 views | exiledclaseboy |
Well we’re all about to see what Yellowhammer actually says because parliament just voted to force the government to release the whole thing. Another vote lost for Johnson. He IS doing well isn’t he. |  |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:36 - Sep 9 with 1278 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:33 - Sep 9 by Catullus |
I'll have to take your word for it because I haven't read it but again, Cameron and Osborne told blatant lies and yellowhammer was prepared by remainers.....depending on who you choose to believe.
As I have said many times, I don't know what brexit will bring but I hope for the best. When it comes to politicians I can't name one I trust. Whichever side they are on they lie to us. Whatever actually happens, good or bad, the only thing I will predict is if it's bad, the already rich, politicans, power brokers, they will be barely affected and it will be the likes of us who will foot the bill but if it's good the likes of us will see crumbs and the already rich and powerful will reap most of the benefits. That's how it always seems to go. But hey, Nostradamus I am not so maybe I will be entirely wrong. |
yellowhammer was prepared by remainers...
Nope. It was prepared by the civil service. | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:45 - Sep 9 with 1265 views | monmouth |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:36 - Sep 9 by exiledclaseboy |
yellowhammer was prepared by remainers...
Nope. It was prepared by the civil service. |
I don’t know why you bother, the utter crap and dross that’s being spewed out on here. I suppose it’s a habit. |  |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:46 - Sep 9 with 1261 views | Catullus |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:34 - Sep 9 by exiledclaseboy |
Well we’re all about to see what Yellowhammer actually says because parliament just voted to force the government to release the whole thing. Another vote lost for Johnson. He IS doing well isn’t he. |
A conspiracy theorist might say that when Yellowhammer was commissioned, if a remain PM asked for it might they have ensured remain supporting civil servants compiled it?
Although only politicians have seen the whole thing, there's a lot of people who seem to know exactly what it says!
Again, it comes down to what you choose to believe. If YH is as bad as all that, of course remain supporters want it published. If it spoke of golden unicorns, rainbows and glorious futures, remainers would be burying it, that's politics.
Us little people, we will never know the full truth of any of this. I'm a broken record on this but I want it over with, whichever way it goes. If you told me they were revoking A50 tomorrow and the EU had agreed we could stay on our previous terms I think I'd be happy with it. | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:49 - Sep 9 with 1256 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:46 - Sep 9 by Catullus |
A conspiracy theorist might say that when Yellowhammer was commissioned, if a remain PM asked for it might they have ensured remain supporting civil servants compiled it?
Although only politicians have seen the whole thing, there's a lot of people who seem to know exactly what it says!
Again, it comes down to what you choose to believe. If YH is as bad as all that, of course remain supporters want it published. If it spoke of golden unicorns, rainbows and glorious futures, remainers would be burying it, that's politics.
Us little people, we will never know the full truth of any of this. I'm a broken record on this but I want it over with, whichever way it goes. If you told me they were revoking A50 tomorrow and the EU had agreed we could stay on our previous terms I think I'd be happy with it. |
“A conspiracy theorist might say that when Yellowhammer was commissioned, if a remain PM asked for it might they have ensured remain supporting civil servants compiled it?”
That would be a particularly stupid conspiracy theory given that no one asks civil servant who they vote for and/or how they voted in the referendum.
“Although only politicians have seen the whole thing,”
That’s not true either.
Edit: May wasn’t a “remain PM” either. She may have been remain before the referendum but this nonsense that’s she did her damndest to keep us in all along is just that. She was utterly useless mind. [Post edited 9 Sep 2019 19:52]
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:11 - Sep 9 with 1229 views | Catullus |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:49 - Sep 9 by exiledclaseboy |
“A conspiracy theorist might say that when Yellowhammer was commissioned, if a remain PM asked for it might they have ensured remain supporting civil servants compiled it?”
That would be a particularly stupid conspiracy theory given that no one asks civil servant who they vote for and/or how they voted in the referendum.
“Although only politicians have seen the whole thing,”
That’s not true either.
Edit: May wasn’t a “remain PM” either. She may have been remain before the referendum but this nonsense that’s she did her damndest to keep us in all along is just that. She was utterly useless mind. [Post edited 9 Sep 2019 19:52]
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I didn't mean May was trying to scupper Brexit on purpose, sorry I wasn't clear. I simply meant her heart was with remain, maybe that's why she did so badly, she didn't believe in what she was doing. Or maybe she just is hopeless.
Personally I'd find it hard to believe that Mp's and Ministers didn't know which civil servants they can trust with which jobs. people build careers on making it obvious where their loyalties are and the rewards for good service can be enormous. Huge salaries, huge pensions, making the honours list and then, if you leave from the highest levels there's all sorts of top end private sector companies that will reward your contact lists....ahem, experience! | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:14 - Sep 9 with 1225 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:46 - Sep 9 by Catullus |
A conspiracy theorist might say that when Yellowhammer was commissioned, if a remain PM asked for it might they have ensured remain supporting civil servants compiled it?
Although only politicians have seen the whole thing, there's a lot of people who seem to know exactly what it says!
Again, it comes down to what you choose to believe. If YH is as bad as all that, of course remain supporters want it published. If it spoke of golden unicorns, rainbows and glorious futures, remainers would be burying it, that's politics.
Us little people, we will never know the full truth of any of this. I'm a broken record on this but I want it over with, whichever way it goes. If you told me they were revoking A50 tomorrow and the EU had agreed we could stay on our previous terms I think I'd be happy with it. |
“Although only politicians have seen the whole thing, there's a lot of people who seem to know exactly what it says! ”
That’s utter nonsense.
Hold onto your hat btw - they may have to reveal it. And then the cat will be among the pigeons.
Lol. | | | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:18 - Sep 9 with 1212 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:11 - Sep 9 by Catullus |
I didn't mean May was trying to scupper Brexit on purpose, sorry I wasn't clear. I simply meant her heart was with remain, maybe that's why she did so badly, she didn't believe in what she was doing. Or maybe she just is hopeless.
Personally I'd find it hard to believe that Mp's and Ministers didn't know which civil servants they can trust with which jobs. people build careers on making it obvious where their loyalties are and the rewards for good service can be enormous. Huge salaries, huge pensions, making the honours list and then, if you leave from the highest levels there's all sorts of top end private sector companies that will reward your contact lists....ahem, experience! |
Civil servants’ political leanings are never questioned or asked about and are entirely irrelevant anyway. The civil service code governs the political activities they can get involved in and the higher you get the more limited you are in that respect. Civil servants don’t change with the government, they’re there regardless of which shower are running things at any given time. Ministers come and go, most of them don’t stay long enough to get to know their officials all that well, especially these days, and no minister would have to ask a civil servant how they voted to ensure loyalty and trust. It’s there anyway, government wouldn’t function without it. | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:18 - Sep 9 with 1212 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:12 - Sep 9 by Catullus |
It always comes back to what you believe. Gove said it was worse case scenario but you prefer to believe he was lying and Yellowhammer is a statement of fact. As for government predictions, they are always accurate, they never lie eh? What about Cameron and Osborne, the emergency budget, tax raises etc. It was all lies. All these government predictions were prepared by people who wanted us to choose remain. You validate your position by calling some politicians that you want to disagree with liars and assuming others that you agree with are telling the truth!
Bojo is allegedly an expert politician, he's been foreign minister, Mayor of London etc so should know a lot more about it than us but who believes him.
Nobody can accurately predict where the economy will be in 10 years time and anyone claiming they can is a total liar. People have been having the jitters last week because we were heading for recession but a week later those worries were dispelled when the economy grew.
You say it's what I choose to believe and yes it is but it's the same for you. You want to remain so you choose to believe the worst. |
I don’t ‘prefer to believe’ that Gove was lying. I know.
And I haven’t said anything about where the economy will be in ten years. In fact, I’ve said all along that in the longer term it will be ok. Although how long it will take is difficult to say, Rees Mogg estimated 50 years.
BUT. And this is quite a big issue to be honest. They know a lot about the immediate impact. And it’s not good, a no deal is horrific. How long are you prepared to last? | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:20 - Sep 9 with 1205 views | Catullus |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:14 - Sep 9 by londonlisa2001 |
“Although only politicians have seen the whole thing, there's a lot of people who seem to know exactly what it says! ”
That’s utter nonsense.
Hold onto your hat btw - they may have to reveal it. And then the cat will be among the pigeons.
Lol. |
When you posted "Wait and see what’s in Yellowhammer (if they manage to get it released) if you don’t believe me" it sort of suggested you know wat's in it. | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:25 - Sep 9 with 1179 views | Catullus |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:18 - Sep 9 by exiledclaseboy |
Civil servants’ political leanings are never questioned or asked about and are entirely irrelevant anyway. The civil service code governs the political activities they can get involved in and the higher you get the more limited you are in that respect. Civil servants don’t change with the government, they’re there regardless of which shower are running things at any given time. Ministers come and go, most of them don’t stay long enough to get to know their officials all that well, especially these days, and no minister would have to ask a civil servant how they voted to ensure loyalty and trust. It’s there anyway, government wouldn’t function without it. |
Because no politician or civil servant has ever broken the rules? | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:28 - Sep 9 with 1172 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:20 - Sep 9 by Catullus |
When you posted "Wait and see what’s in Yellowhammer (if they manage to get it released) if you don’t believe me" it sort of suggested you know wat's in it. |
The ‘utter nonsense’ bit was in reply to you saying only politicians have seen it.
As you’ve been told by a few people now. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:30 - Sep 9 with 1164 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:25 - Sep 9 by Catullus |
Because no politician or civil servant has ever broken the rules? |
Where did breaking the rules come into it? | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:33 - Sep 9 with 1156 views | Jango |
Dominic Grieve claims he has inside information that Boris misled the queen. Surely he should disclose the proof of this information, given he’s dictating to everyone about being honest. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:36 - Sep 9 with 1147 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:33 - Sep 9 by Jango |
Dominic Grieve claims he has inside information that Boris misled the queen. Surely he should disclose the proof of this information, given he’s dictating to everyone about being honest. |
He’s has literally just put a motion in front of the house which has now been passed demanding the proof of what he has said be made public. What more can he do? | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:39 - Sep 9 with 1135 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:36 - Sep 9 by londonlisa2001 |
He’s has literally just put a motion in front of the house which has now been passed demanding the proof of what he has said be made public. What more can he do? |
Do why didn't he disclose that information if he had it?
Surely he couldn't be lying? | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:42 - Sep 9 with 1125 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:32 - Sep 9 by londonlisa2001 |
The article actually states:
“While fund exhaustion may be of little economic significance (it is an accounting curio rather than a real fund), it will be a symbolic event, indicating that the new state pension is unsustainable.”
See the bit where it says “IT IS AN ACCOUNTING CURIO RATHER THAN A REAL FUND”. what do you think that means? Do you think it means you are right that there’s an actual pot of money or I am right when I said it’s a nominal calculation done, there’s no actual pot.
Take your time.
You can be knocked out or not knocked out. I don’t care. I have no idea what other forum you are talking about. I’m finding the thought if you sitting there sniggering because you think you’ve caught me out yet missing the sentence above in the article you are quoting to be fairly hilarious to be honest. You have made yourself look even sillier than before. |
So there we have it, a Not real Fund that is an accounting Curio rather than a real fund that just happens to have real cash allocated to it that is decreasing and may run out.
That is something that everyone including the Government calls a Fund.
What do I think it means I think that of course there is a pot of money, you cannot make a "nominal calculation" without the basis of real cash being somewhere.
The fact that it is lumped in with NHS and Benefits still means that there ids cash paid in and has have cash allocated. The nominal calculation merely means the amount allocated to Pensions has to taken from the overall Pot.
Perhaps if you think there is no fund you can explain where the Cash comes from that the Government calls a Fund?
I don't call it a fund they do. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:44 - Sep 9 with 1111 views | rockinjk |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:36 - Sep 9 by londonlisa2001 |
He’s has literally just put a motion in front of the house which has now been passed demanding the proof of what he has said be made public. What more can he do? |
Dominic Grieve is an absolute diamond
He is why people vote Tory and why I’ve in the past vote Tory
He is a “conservative” a genuine conservative | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:44 - Sep 9 with 1107 views | Jango |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:36 - Sep 9 by londonlisa2001 |
He’s has literally just put a motion in front of the house which has now been passed demanding the proof of what he has said be made public. What more can he do? |
Tell us what the inside information he’s received is and who he got it off. While he’s at it let’s see his emails, what’s app messages Facebook messages etc between him and his mates at the EU. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:44 - Sep 9 with 1109 views | monmouth |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:39 - Sep 9 by bluey_the_blue |
Do why didn't he disclose that information if he had it?
Surely he couldn't be lying? |
I think we should rename you'Bluey the Bot'
Any old automated crap to try and defend the indefensible. | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:48 - Sep 9 with 1100 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 16:25 - Sep 9 by LeonWasGod |
You make it sound so simplistic.
- The executive said it would be a once in a lifetime vote, not Parliament, the leader of which then disappeared straight after said vote.
- It was only advisory, so despite the promises there is no legal requirement to implement (actually based on the advisory nature alone, there's no moral requirement either).
- The "Parliament of the day" initiated A50, according to the "will of the people"
- They're not collaborating, they simply checked what the response would be given a certain action - it simply an open dialogue, which has been sorely lacking throughout the whole mess.
- The next parliament agreed a deal with the EU in accordance with the outcome of the referendum (which would have passed if the Tory ERGers hadn't voted against it). That whole position has now been obfuscated by people shifting goal posts and saying only a hard Brexit is a pure Brexit.
- Jo Swinson represents a constituency that voted to remain by a majority of 71.4% and represents a Party that stands on a pro-EU ticket. She's every right to campaign to stay.
The Tories are committing political suicide if they don't deliver, for sure. They'll wreck trust for a couple of generations if they don't take us out of the EU. But if they don't, it wouldn't be illegal. They've backed themselves into to a corner. Either not implement Brexit and risk being ripped a new one by Nigel Farage (that's what this is really about) or Brexit and screw the country (again).
The potential illegality would occur if Johnson breaks the law as he's hinting he will. If he behaves autocratically like that, it's the literal definition of dictator (but I doubt he will, it's all bluster). |
You keep saying that the Referendum was only Advisory, you seem to have missed the point that it was written in to Law here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_(Withdrawal)_Act_2018 | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:49 - Sep 9 with 1093 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:36 - Sep 9 by exiledclaseboy |
yellowhammer was prepared by remainers...
Nope. It was prepared by the civil service. |
Who are all remainers. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:50 - Sep 9 with 1088 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:49 - Sep 9 by A_Fans_Dad |
Who are all remainers. |
All of them? Bloody hell, you get around. | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 20:52 - Sep 9 with 1080 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 19:49 - Sep 9 by exiledclaseboy |
“A conspiracy theorist might say that when Yellowhammer was commissioned, if a remain PM asked for it might they have ensured remain supporting civil servants compiled it?”
That would be a particularly stupid conspiracy theory given that no one asks civil servant who they vote for and/or how they voted in the referendum.
“Although only politicians have seen the whole thing,”
That’s not true either.
Edit: May wasn’t a “remain PM” either. She may have been remain before the referendum but this nonsense that’s she did her damndest to keep us in all along is just that. She was utterly useless mind. [Post edited 9 Sep 2019 19:52]
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"She may have been remain before the referendum but this nonsense that’s she did her damndest to keep us in all along is just that."
Just what do you think the withrawal deal actually did, because it certainly did not remove us from the control of the EU or the ECJ. | | | |
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