| Second BREXIT Referendum 16:30 - Dec 21 with 5903 views | johnlangy |
Time to put your thinking cap on again ohl  .
In my 'Thank You Nigel Farage' thread I suggested that Reform are going to have a huge bearing on the result of the next General Election. This thread is about the thought that things could go the completely opposite way.
One thing we know for certain (there's not many times you can say that in politics) is that Reform, aka Nigel Farage, are not going to stand on a platform of holding a second Brexit referendum at the next GE. Kemi Badenoch is a brexiteer so that rules out the Torys, at least while she's the leader.
So what if Labour does ? When a second ref has been talked about before now the general consensus has been that it's too early, that Brexit has to be given time to see how it works. If Labour do offer a second ref at the next GE and they win again the referendum probably wouldn't happen till at least 2032. So that would mean sixteen years after the first one. No one could argue that that is not enough time to see if Brexit was working or not.
And what would be the result. As far as i'm aware every single poll that has been taken over the last few years on how people would vote in another ref has shown a substantial majority for rejoining (in May it was 55% wrong to leave with 31% saying it was right to leave). And that majority will only get bigger. In the first ref it was mostly older people who voted to leave while younger people voted to remain. And there's only one way that different demography is going to change.
Over the next few years we may get caught up in a Trade war if Trump does follow up on his ideas about tarrifs. So little old UK would be stuck between the USA and the EU in that battle. And Labour will be in the perfect position to use that as an argument to rejoin especially as they'll have been working with the EU for a few years at that time trying to improve the current Brexit deal.
Another side benefit to Labour, who are a very pro Union party, is that a rejoin vote may also see off Scotlands fight for Indy. Just a thought. |  | | |  |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 15:31 - Jan 2 with 881 views | onehunglow |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 12:07 - Jan 2 by SullutaCreturned |
An 80 year old could still have plenty of younger family members and want the best for them
The average 16 year old isn't that well informed and doesn't care that much about anything much besides what they want. Here,
electoralcommission.org.uk/media-centre/young-voters-wales-need-more-support-engage-elections
And from that...
More education and engagement is needed to support young voters to understand and participate in Welsh elections, according to recent research and analysis by the Electoral Commission. Approximately one in five newly enfranchised 16-17 year olds in Wales registered to vote ahead of the local government election on 5 May, with turnout lowest amongst younger age groups.
Feedback gathered for the Commission’s post-poll report on the Welsh local government elections in 2022 found a lack of motivation to engage in elections amongst young people. Reasons given included not knowing enough about candidates, parties and the democratic process in general. The majority of voters in Wales remain confident the elections were well-run and satisfied with the process of voting and registering to vote.
The report also includes feedback from parents in Wales. While 77% of parents think it’s important that children learn the basics about politics, voting and democracy at school, just 22% think the current information their children get on these topics is sufficient. Parents in lower socio-economic households are also less likely to discuss politics at home, increasing the need for school-based learning.
So, 1 in 5 or 20% of 16 and 17 year olds voted. Understand that, 80% said they either didn't care or didn't know enough. More informed, definitely not, more stake in the future, I'm sure the average 80 year old still cares about their future.
You're very ageist as if old people don't matter anymore. I wonder how you'll feel when you're 80. |
The average 16 yr old today could be well informed as they have the technology
They are not however as their priorities are only those that are on their device
Many have zero inter personal skills
They are a generation that thinks they know it all but in essence know jaxkahite .
Working from home takes away human inter action and down at help them,if they are working | |
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| Second BREXIT Referendum on 15:38 - Jan 2 with 862 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 12:07 - Jan 2 by SullutaCreturned |
An 80 year old could still have plenty of younger family members and want the best for them
The average 16 year old isn't that well informed and doesn't care that much about anything much besides what they want. Here,
electoralcommission.org.uk/media-centre/young-voters-wales-need-more-support-engage-elections
And from that...
More education and engagement is needed to support young voters to understand and participate in Welsh elections, according to recent research and analysis by the Electoral Commission. Approximately one in five newly enfranchised 16-17 year olds in Wales registered to vote ahead of the local government election on 5 May, with turnout lowest amongst younger age groups.
Feedback gathered for the Commission’s post-poll report on the Welsh local government elections in 2022 found a lack of motivation to engage in elections amongst young people. Reasons given included not knowing enough about candidates, parties and the democratic process in general. The majority of voters in Wales remain confident the elections were well-run and satisfied with the process of voting and registering to vote.
The report also includes feedback from parents in Wales. While 77% of parents think it’s important that children learn the basics about politics, voting and democracy at school, just 22% think the current information their children get on these topics is sufficient. Parents in lower socio-economic households are also less likely to discuss politics at home, increasing the need for school-based learning.
So, 1 in 5 or 20% of 16 and 17 year olds voted. Understand that, 80% said they either didn't care or didn't know enough. More informed, definitely not, more stake in the future, I'm sure the average 80 year old still cares about their future.
You're very ageist as if old people don't matter anymore. I wonder how you'll feel when you're 80. |
No - i am for 80 year olds voting, but also for 16 year olds voting.
I was simply making a valid comparison for others who have a downer on young people for some reason.
When voting moves onto phones - like banking - then the young will vote in numbers.
Try sticking voting on mobile phones only - and see how the 80 year olds get on. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Second BREXIT Referendum on 15:40 - Jan 2 with 858 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 13:40 - Jan 2 by Whiterockin |
The 16 year olds will be old themselves one day. Short term ideology is no substitution for structured long term planning. |
Not all 80 year olds think short term to be fair. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Second BREXIT Referendum on 15:47 - Jan 2 with 845 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 15:38 - Jan 2 by Kilkennyjack |
No - i am for 80 year olds voting, but also for 16 year olds voting.
I was simply making a valid comparison for others who have a downer on young people for some reason.
When voting moves onto phones - like banking - then the young will vote in numbers.
Try sticking voting on mobile phones only - and see how the 80 year olds get on. |
Voting on mobile phones...then we'll see some vote rigging!
It's not a downer on young people either, it's a reality. I asked my son about his political views (bearing in mind politics is often discussed in this house) and he wasn't interested, didn't have a clue, says none of his friends ever talk politics and when it's been brought up in school most of his class are the same. He was 16 last September. Politics is boring to him, if it's not football, food or girls he's not bothered.
80 year olds now haven't used the technology like kids do. Try again in 30 years and then the 80 somethings will all know about the tech. You have to move with the times see. [Post edited 2 Jan 20:35]
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| Second BREXIT Referendum on 16:14 - Jan 2 with 833 views | Whiterockin |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 15:47 - Jan 2 by SullutaCreturned |
Voting on mobile phones...then we'll see some vote rigging!
It's not a downer on young people either, it's a reality. I asked my son about his political views (bearing in mind politics is often discussed in this house) and he wasn't interested, didn't have a clue, says none of his friends ever talk politics and when it's been brought up in school most of his class are the same. He was 16 last September. Politics is boring to him, if it's not football, food or girls he's not bothered.
80 year olds now haven't used the technology like kids do. Try again in 30 years and then the 80 somethings will all know about the tech. You have to move with the times see. [Post edited 2 Jan 20:35]
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Same with my grandchildren over the age of 16. None can name a Welsh politician or a politician apart from the PM. Just not interested in politics and personally I don't blame them. It's surprising how few youngsters watch the news. |  | | |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 17:27 - Jan 2 with 810 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 15:40 - Jan 2 by Kilkennyjack |
Not all 80 year olds think short term to be fair. |
Society grows great when old men plant trees in who’s shade they know they’ll never sit in. |  |
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| Second BREXIT Referendum on 20:38 - Jan 2 with 735 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 17:27 - Jan 2 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Society grows great when old men plant trees in who’s shade they know they’ll never sit in. |
Very stoic. | | | |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 07:20 - Jan 3 with 676 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 17:27 - Jan 2 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Society grows great when old men plant trees in who’s shade they know they’ll never sit in. |
Most tree planting is done by the young and fit, just saying …. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Second BREXIT Referendum on 07:24 - Jan 3 with 671 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 15:47 - Jan 2 by SullutaCreturned |
Voting on mobile phones...then we'll see some vote rigging!
It's not a downer on young people either, it's a reality. I asked my son about his political views (bearing in mind politics is often discussed in this house) and he wasn't interested, didn't have a clue, says none of his friends ever talk politics and when it's been brought up in school most of his class are the same. He was 16 last September. Politics is boring to him, if it's not football, food or girls he's not bothered.
80 year olds now haven't used the technology like kids do. Try again in 30 years and then the 80 somethings will all know about the tech. You have to move with the times see. [Post edited 2 Jan 20:35]
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My next door neighbours 16 year old loves politics, does that trump your son ?
See …… its almost like one or two examples does not end this much wider debate.
80 year olds will still lag behind the young in new tech take up. Fact. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Second BREXIT Referendum on 07:28 - Jan 3 with 667 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 16:14 - Jan 2 by Whiterockin |
Same with my grandchildren over the age of 16. None can name a Welsh politician or a politician apart from the PM. Just not interested in politics and personally I don't blame them. It's surprising how few youngsters watch the news. |
Well they don’t watch the news agreed, but they get news from the various internet platforms in real time. They also know the BBC is toxic and shite. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Second BREXIT Referendum on 07:34 - Jan 3 with 664 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 15:47 - Jan 2 by SullutaCreturned |
Voting on mobile phones...then we'll see some vote rigging!
It's not a downer on young people either, it's a reality. I asked my son about his political views (bearing in mind politics is often discussed in this house) and he wasn't interested, didn't have a clue, says none of his friends ever talk politics and when it's been brought up in school most of his class are the same. He was 16 last September. Politics is boring to him, if it's not football, food or girls he's not bothered.
80 year olds now haven't used the technology like kids do. Try again in 30 years and then the 80 somethings will all know about the tech. You have to move with the times see. [Post edited 2 Jan 20:35]
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Fair play great point on vote rigging, i heard some people think you can do complex banking on line. Its nuts right ?
Imagine the fraud.
Never risk that with my money, would you ?
24*7*365 they said …..
No …. putting a simple cross in a box online carries so much risk it will never happen …. Much better to spend millions on voting stations.
Its just a matter of time mun …. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Second BREXIT Referendum on 12:47 - Jan 3 with 582 views | pencoedjack |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 07:28 - Jan 3 by Kilkennyjack |
Well they don’t watch the news agreed, but they get news from the various internet platforms in real time. They also know the BBC is toxic and shite. |
Lucky for us, a lot are influenced by X & Elon Musk.
Bring on the Welsh elections! |  | | |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 13:01 - Jan 3 with 554 views | Whiterockin |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 07:28 - Jan 3 by Kilkennyjack |
Well they don’t watch the news agreed, but they get news from the various internet platforms in real time. They also know the BBC is toxic and shite. |
I would say the news they are interested in has nothing to do with politics, otherwise they would be more knowledgeable on the subject. | | | |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 13:25 - Jan 3 with 523 views | Boundy |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 07:20 - Jan 3 by Kilkennyjack |
Most tree planting is done by the young and fit, just saying …. |
Link, please to substantiate your claim . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Second BREXIT Referendum on 15:23 - Jan 3 with 484 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 07:24 - Jan 3 by Kilkennyjack |
My next door neighbours 16 year old loves politics, does that trump your son ?
See …… its almost like one or two examples does not end this much wider debate.
80 year olds will still lag behind the young in new tech take up. Fact. |
Well the official stats say only 1 in 5 16/17 year olds voted, as I told you earlier. So OFFICIALLY now, the vast majority aren';t interested.
Maybe the kids looking at those internet platforms are just browsing tiktok for fun things, looking on insta for football stuff. We all know you cannot trust the internet because there's a lot of fake stuff out there. It's even worse than the BBC for fake news.
So in the much wider debate, the facst are simple, 16 and 17 year olds don't vote in high numbers. An average 80 year old will still be better informed because they'll be more likely to take an interest, is that a fact? Maybe not but the over 65's turn out in higher numbers than young people, around the high 70% mark ever since they started checking, that's 1964 | | | |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 19:53 - Jan 3 with 413 views | union_jack |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 15:23 - Jan 3 by SullutaCreturned |
Well the official stats say only 1 in 5 16/17 year olds voted, as I told you earlier. So OFFICIALLY now, the vast majority aren';t interested.
Maybe the kids looking at those internet platforms are just browsing tiktok for fun things, looking on insta for football stuff. We all know you cannot trust the internet because there's a lot of fake stuff out there. It's even worse than the BBC for fake news.
So in the much wider debate, the facst are simple, 16 and 17 year olds don't vote in high numbers. An average 80 year old will still be better informed because they'll be more likely to take an interest, is that a fact? Maybe not but the over 65's turn out in higher numbers than young people, around the high 70% mark ever since they started checking, that's 1964 |
Enough of these FACTS Cat, they don’t tell some people what they want to hear. Vastly overrated 😁 |  |
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| Second BREXIT Referendum on 10:06 - Jan 4 with 351 views | controversial_jack |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 13:01 - Jan 3 by Whiterockin |
I would say the news they are interested in has nothing to do with politics, otherwise they would be more knowledgeable on the subject. |
They won't learn anything from the BBC or mainstream media except propaganda | | | |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 10:52 - Jan 4 with 338 views | Whiterockin |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 10:06 - Jan 4 by controversial_jack |
They won't learn anything from the BBC or mainstream media except propaganda |
I would say that youngsters fully understand BS, particularly when it is posted on websites like here and posted as fact. | | | |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 11:47 - Jan 5 with 224 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 13:25 - Jan 3 by Boundy |
Link, please to substantiate your claim . |
Its quite hard to plant a tree if you are aged and in a wheelchair in a care home.
Its a lot easier if you can walk to a planting area, dig a hole, plant a tree, and repeat.
The above is substantiated fact as published by the University of Stating the Bleedin Obvious. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Second BREXIT Referendum on 15:50 - Jan 5 with 191 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 07:20 - Jan 3 by Kilkennyjack |
Most tree planting is done by the young and fit, just saying …. |
Well that would have made a brilliant Greek proverb wouldn’t it.
“Only young and fit people can plant trees” Aristotles big bumper annual book of proverbs volume IV
Very insightful. | |
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| Second BREXIT Referendum on 16:30 - Jan 5 with 169 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 11:47 - Jan 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Its quite hard to plant a tree if you are aged and in a wheelchair in a care home.
Its a lot easier if you can walk to a planting area, dig a hole, plant a tree, and repeat.
The above is substantiated fact as published by the University of Stating the Bleedin Obvious. |
It’s not literally about old men planting trees. It’s a metaphor, an analogy. It’s about creating or doing something knowing you won’t be the one to reap the benefits from. The ancient Greeks weren’t running around forcing old men to plant trees knowing they’d be dead before they grew. There wasn’t a major policy for sustainable forest management in and around the city state of Athens.
You plonker. | |
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| Second BREXIT Referendum on 16:57 - Jan 5 with 146 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 07:34 - Jan 3 by Kilkennyjack |
Fair play great point on vote rigging, i heard some people think you can do complex banking on line. Its nuts right ?
Imagine the fraud.
Never risk that with my money, would you ?
24*7*365 they said …..
No …. putting a simple cross in a box online carries so much risk it will never happen …. Much better to spend millions on voting stations.
Its just a matter of time mun …. |
Because obviously there is no online banking fraud, none at all....wake up mun. People will go go great lengths to affect a political vote and making sure the party they want gets in can be worth millions, billions even.
No wonder some on here think you are about 12. You are so naive. It's like you look at the world through blinkers....oh hang on, I'm repeating myself. Lets call it tunnel vision then. | | | |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 19:24 - Jan 5 with 109 views | union_jack |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 16:57 - Jan 5 by SullutaCreturned |
Because obviously there is no online banking fraud, none at all....wake up mun. People will go go great lengths to affect a political vote and making sure the party they want gets in can be worth millions, billions even.
No wonder some on here think you are about 12. You are so naive. It's like you look at the world through blinkers....oh hang on, I'm repeating myself. Lets call it tunnel vision then. |
You only have to look at the high stake POTY last year to see evidence of on line manipulation😁 | |
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| Second BREXIT Referendum on 21:24 - Jan 5 with 76 views | Boundy |
| Second BREXIT Referendum on 11:47 - Jan 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Its quite hard to plant a tree if you are aged and in a wheelchair in a care home.
Its a lot easier if you can walk to a planting area, dig a hole, plant a tree, and repeat.
The above is substantiated fact as published by the University of Stating the Bleedin Obvious. |
Easier maybe but not impossible, is ageism I crime I wonder | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Second BREXIT Referendum on 22:43 - Jan 5 with 46 views | Dr_Winston |
There is a very strong argument to be made for increasing the voting age rather than reducing it.
What the hell would the average 16 yr old know about the World? At that age I was a Welsh Nationalist. Then time passed and I began to understand how the World worked and what a bonkers opinion that was.
Frankly I'd raise the voting age to 40. And then I'd only allow sufferage to people who had worked in the Private sector for the most part, excusing certain professions such as the NHS and Armed Forces. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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