| The squad 15:16 - Dec 31 with 6883 views | geraldo |
We started this season with our biggest and most expensive ( eg Wilbraham on £3k per week) squad ever and I now think we have the worst squad I can remember.
At half time on Saturday I looked at our bench and wondered who we could bring on to change things and I came to the conclusion that there was nobody!!
We have no game changer ( on his way to Portsmouth) only one decent goalscorer, a porous defence and 3 calamity goalkeepers.
Where did it all go wrong ..................... |  | | |  |
| The squad on 15:32 - Dec 31 with 6824 views | SalwaDale |
We're 16th in League One.
Where did it all go right?
I remember - Keith Hill. |  |
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| The squad on 16:07 - Dec 31 with 6743 views | electricblue |
As nobody ever thought that it one or two seasons its going to be a struggle!
That is whats happening now....
Dale have done well on the budgets of the past seasons and it will catch up and in fact it as..
I for one dont understand paying £3k a week if its true to a 38yr old and similar to perkins...
I suppose you have to sign players of experience to give Morley and Adshead the experience of playing and training along the side of them.... |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| The squad on 17:38 - Dec 31 with 6538 views | Dale92 |
| The squad on 16:07 - Dec 31 by electricblue |
As nobody ever thought that it one or two seasons its going to be a struggle!
That is whats happening now....
Dale have done well on the budgets of the past seasons and it will catch up and in fact it as..
I for one dont understand paying £3k a week if its true to a 38yr old and similar to perkins...
I suppose you have to sign players of experience to give Morley and Adshead the experience of playing and training along the side of them.... |
That should be the role and was the role of BBM, Joey T could also do it. To give apparently 5k a week on to veterans who can't do it on the pitch anymore is bleeding this club, we need players we can sell on and good pros 29-33 who can still do a good job ie Hendo, Stephen Dawson etc. We need to do everything we can to get them both out, I'm sure they're great guys, I know perks is, but at this level and were we are we simply can't afford them.
People throw Andrew in there and I get that but at least he offers something different, but I'd have him over Wilbs any day.
With Cannon going, I could also see us try and unload Inman, good player but we have so many players like him or want that position and he isn't a striker.
I want McGahey to stay, I think he's our best defender(which doesn't say a lot) but with the right investment in a decent experienced CB would make him so, much better.
I see McNulty staying obviously well liked behind the scenes and I doubt t anyone would take over he has 18months left doesn't he?
Jordan Williams deserves to be keep, and Dooley needs a go on the wings when he's fit.
Get Sam Hart on a permanent, if he's fit and not playing though I'd assume he's going in January to a bigger fish or back to Blackburn.
Edit: Norman has to go back, I think Lillie may be a dead man and a new goalkeeper altogether coming in.
Lots of possibilities, probably go to the last day like usual and pick up from the reduced to clear section and get stuck with another Clough. [Post edited 31 Dec 2018 17:41]
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| This is the One, I've waited for |
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| The squad on 18:00 - Dec 31 with 6473 views | dale1968 |
Wage payments are surely just speculation and hear say,surely they are not publicly announced?
Maybe I am wrong? |  |
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| The squad on 18:21 - Dec 31 with 6400 views | ColDale |
| The squad on 18:00 - Dec 31 by dale1968 |
Wage payments are surely just speculation and hear say,surely they are not publicly announced?
Maybe I am wrong? |
"Wages" seem to go up after each defeat |  | | |
| The squad on 18:24 - Dec 31 with 6389 views | JimmyRustler |
If this is the worst squad you can remember then you're probably not old enough to drink. Hope you were tucked up in bed when you posted this! |  | | |
| The squad on 18:28 - Dec 31 with 6376 views | D_Alien |
| The squad on 18:24 - Dec 31 by JimmyRustler |
If this is the worst squad you can remember then you're probably not old enough to drink. Hope you were tucked up in bed when you posted this! |
On the other end of the age scale, i think, but still needs to be tucked up in bed |  |
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| The squad on 18:35 - Dec 31 with 6346 views | scarrow |
On paper the signings of wilbraham and Perkins were welcomed by virtually everyone. Have they paid off no that's the same for Inman.
To be fair they could have been fantastic. Recruitment is areal issue though. Randall (disaster), Norman (disaster). Clough (injury ruined), finnerty (gone), Dooley and MJ (flashes of promise but injury prone), Hart (out of favour)
Looking at the list they are either young and inexperienced or Inman apart old.
I would like to see a couple of quality players added who are experienced and hungry for success with a couple of hundred league appearances. Where has the recruitment of the Vincenti's or McNulty (of 4-5 years ago gone?) |  |
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| The squad on 19:02 - Dec 31 with 6272 views | ColDale |
| The squad on 18:35 - Dec 31 by scarrow |
On paper the signings of wilbraham and Perkins were welcomed by virtually everyone. Have they paid off no that's the same for Inman.
To be fair they could have been fantastic. Recruitment is areal issue though. Randall (disaster), Norman (disaster). Clough (injury ruined), finnerty (gone), Dooley and MJ (flashes of promise but injury prone), Hart (out of favour)
Looking at the list they are either young and inexperienced or Inman apart old.
I would like to see a couple of quality players added who are experienced and hungry for success with a couple of hundred league appearances. Where has the recruitment of the Vincenti's or McNulty (of 4-5 years ago gone?) |
Thing is Vincenti was signed as a player who had just been relegated from the FL and McNUlty was signed as someone deemed not good enough for Bury. When you're constantly hunting for bargains, which we always are no matter what division we are in, signings tend to be more of a gamble. Even Henderson was deemed a gamble at the time having been drummed out of Colchester with reported attitude issues and a goals record no better than say a bog standard Lge 2 striker.
Perks and Wilbraham were both signed as a lack of experience and the ability to manage games was a problem last year. There's still a role in Perkins to do that but that has to be in a more successful side to take full advantage, and I'd say the same with Inman who in a flourishing side could be a real threat to any team.
Said before, I think the transfer window is something that we have struggled with in the last couple of years where we've not had the same access to the loan market like we did in years gone by. We've not had the ongoing ability to tweak like we would have done in years gone by. Hill would often leave some of the wage budget to the side and then recruit as to what was needed. Now it's a case of getting everything together and holding our breath from September 1st to Jan 1st. He's attempted to deal with that this time by building a squad to cope but it's not had the success he or anyone would have wanted it to. Perhaps the window is something we need to learn to handle better or its just something that will forever be a hindrance to us. | | | |
| The squad on 19:38 - Dec 31 with 6186 views | Shun |
For want of a better place to post it, I just wanted to spread a bit of happiness by pointing out that with 13 goals and 5 assists Ian Henderson has been involved in more goals (3 more than the next closest) than anyone in League One. What a god. |  | | |
| The squad on 20:29 - Dec 31 with 6069 views | DaleiLama |
| The squad on 19:38 - Dec 31 by Shun |
For want of a better place to post it, I just wanted to spread a bit of happiness by pointing out that with 13 goals and 5 assists Ian Henderson has been involved in more goals (3 more than the next closest) than anyone in League One. What a god. |
………… following presentation of the match ball by Shun
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| The squad on 02:31 - Jan 1 with 5816 views | Creepy |
| The squad on 19:02 - Dec 31 by ColDale |
Thing is Vincenti was signed as a player who had just been relegated from the FL and McNUlty was signed as someone deemed not good enough for Bury. When you're constantly hunting for bargains, which we always are no matter what division we are in, signings tend to be more of a gamble. Even Henderson was deemed a gamble at the time having been drummed out of Colchester with reported attitude issues and a goals record no better than say a bog standard Lge 2 striker.
Perks and Wilbraham were both signed as a lack of experience and the ability to manage games was a problem last year. There's still a role in Perkins to do that but that has to be in a more successful side to take full advantage, and I'd say the same with Inman who in a flourishing side could be a real threat to any team.
Said before, I think the transfer window is something that we have struggled with in the last couple of years where we've not had the same access to the loan market like we did in years gone by. We've not had the ongoing ability to tweak like we would have done in years gone by. Hill would often leave some of the wage budget to the side and then recruit as to what was needed. Now it's a case of getting everything together and holding our breath from September 1st to Jan 1st. He's attempted to deal with that this time by building a squad to cope but it's not had the success he or anyone would have wanted it to. Perhaps the window is something we need to learn to handle better or its just something that will forever be a hindrance to us. |
That is a great post. Think your view on the current situation depends entirely on what type of Dale you’ve seen in the past and how you feel about swapping managers. I’ve seen some dross in my time and although Keith isn’t getting things right just now I’m happy to stick with him and think he deserves it for his past achievements. If we did go down, is there a better manager around to take us back up? Anyone who’s managed a team knows how difficult it it to get the dynamics just right and I’m sure he wants to make a success of things. A decent bit of business in January and league 1 survival will be enough for me this season and fingers crossed for 2019/20. I think we were all happy with the preseason signings and Zac Clough but sometimes things don’t work out as you’d hoped. My best memories of supporting Rochdale have come with Keith in charge and he’ll continue to have my backing. He might not be some peoples cup of tea and I can get that but I’d rather give him the chance to get it right than bring somebody else in. Happy new year to all dale fans whatever your views. We all want the best for the club and when we’re debating the complexities of our situation, nobody is wrong or right, we just have different ways of looking at the world !! |  | | |
| The squad on 08:37 - Jan 1 with 5685 views | funkkk |
| The squad on 18:35 - Dec 31 by scarrow |
On paper the signings of wilbraham and Perkins were welcomed by virtually everyone. Have they paid off no that's the same for Inman.
To be fair they could have been fantastic. Recruitment is areal issue though. Randall (disaster), Norman (disaster). Clough (injury ruined), finnerty (gone), Dooley and MJ (flashes of promise but injury prone), Hart (out of favour)
Looking at the list they are either young and inexperienced or Inman apart old.
I would like to see a couple of quality players added who are experienced and hungry for success with a couple of hundred league appearances. Where has the recruitment of the Vincenti's or McNulty (of 4-5 years ago gone?) |
RE us lot welcoming the signings of Perkins and Wilbraham. We're not experts are we? Presumably both players were scouted and deemed good enough to sign on allegedly good wages. That's the concern for me alongside not getting the most out of players we know to be good enough; Cannon, Hart, Clough etc. |  | | |
| The squad on 09:07 - Jan 1 with 5639 views | DaleiLama |
| The squad on 02:31 - Jan 1 by Creepy |
That is a great post. Think your view on the current situation depends entirely on what type of Dale you’ve seen in the past and how you feel about swapping managers. I’ve seen some dross in my time and although Keith isn’t getting things right just now I’m happy to stick with him and think he deserves it for his past achievements. If we did go down, is there a better manager around to take us back up? Anyone who’s managed a team knows how difficult it it to get the dynamics just right and I’m sure he wants to make a success of things. A decent bit of business in January and league 1 survival will be enough for me this season and fingers crossed for 2019/20. I think we were all happy with the preseason signings and Zac Clough but sometimes things don’t work out as you’d hoped. My best memories of supporting Rochdale have come with Keith in charge and he’ll continue to have my backing. He might not be some peoples cup of tea and I can get that but I’d rather give him the chance to get it right than bring somebody else in. Happy new year to all dale fans whatever your views. We all want the best for the club and when we’re debating the complexities of our situation, nobody is wrong or right, we just have different ways of looking at the world !! |
Exactly. Good post too. | |
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| The squad on 09:17 - Jan 1 with 5608 views | DaleiLama |
In response to the OP "Where did it all go wrong ....................."
I think the question that should have been posed is why isn't it as good as it was when we were nibbling around the edges of a play-off place in L1 (weren't we up to 4th one season a fair way in?) but aren't doing quite as well now?
I am sure that CD doesn't read this forum, but after he has just handed the club over to a new leadership team in really, really good shape compared to the situation he inherited, I would suggest he would be quite insulted by the question you did actually pose. | |
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| The squad on 10:38 - Jan 1 with 5447 views | 442Dale |
We were fourth after the new year’s fixtures exactly two years ago. What’s happened since has been both avoidable and needs to be learnt from. That requires a level of accountability and recognition that getting things wrong is fine, but to continue in the same vein means that criticism is perfectly justifiable.
It’s been debated to death on here, but I’ve yet to see any decent argument that supports us carrying such a large squad of players who, in the main, are all much the same level. To use one example (and it’s not to start a debate about the individuals involved), if the manager has such faith in a young player like Gillam, why have we got all of Williams11, Inman, Dooley, Clough, Thompson all at the club? If we have promising youngsters, they should be competing for a shirt with one or two others, instead we have the frankly ridiculous and unnecessary rotation of players who are all costing the club money but not moving us forwards. For another example, look at the goalkeeping situation, one which hasn’t been learnt from over a number of years.
Where we are in the league as a club is fine, it’s better than fine. However, for those loyal fans who are going regularly to games will openly admit, the actual reality isn’t as enjoyable as it once was. As said, that has to be recognised and accountability to be taken for it to start to change. It’s certainly not an impossible job. |  |
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| The squad on 11:16 - Jan 1 with 5358 views | midlandsdale |
| The squad on 10:38 - Jan 1 by 442Dale |
We were fourth after the new year’s fixtures exactly two years ago. What’s happened since has been both avoidable and needs to be learnt from. That requires a level of accountability and recognition that getting things wrong is fine, but to continue in the same vein means that criticism is perfectly justifiable.
It’s been debated to death on here, but I’ve yet to see any decent argument that supports us carrying such a large squad of players who, in the main, are all much the same level. To use one example (and it’s not to start a debate about the individuals involved), if the manager has such faith in a young player like Gillam, why have we got all of Williams11, Inman, Dooley, Clough, Thompson all at the club? If we have promising youngsters, they should be competing for a shirt with one or two others, instead we have the frankly ridiculous and unnecessary rotation of players who are all costing the club money but not moving us forwards. For another example, look at the goalkeeping situation, one which hasn’t been learnt from over a number of years.
Where we are in the league as a club is fine, it’s better than fine. However, for those loyal fans who are going regularly to games will openly admit, the actual reality isn’t as enjoyable as it once was. As said, that has to be recognised and accountability to be taken for it to start to change. It’s certainly not an impossible job. |
Agree 100% It's not that we don't appreciate the difficulties of being successful at our club or that KH hasn't done a superb job in past seasons in getting us into and back to L1. For me it's more about his lack of humility, his constant sulking and his reluctance to just be more communicative.
He seems to be quite an insecure individual who takes any criticism totally to heart. If he loosened up a bit, accepted that we all just want to understand a little more what he is trying to do, then it would all be received with much more support. |  | | |
| The squad on 11:34 - Jan 1 with 5304 views | JimmyRustler |
| The squad on 10:38 - Jan 1 by 442Dale |
We were fourth after the new year’s fixtures exactly two years ago. What’s happened since has been both avoidable and needs to be learnt from. That requires a level of accountability and recognition that getting things wrong is fine, but to continue in the same vein means that criticism is perfectly justifiable.
It’s been debated to death on here, but I’ve yet to see any decent argument that supports us carrying such a large squad of players who, in the main, are all much the same level. To use one example (and it’s not to start a debate about the individuals involved), if the manager has such faith in a young player like Gillam, why have we got all of Williams11, Inman, Dooley, Clough, Thompson all at the club? If we have promising youngsters, they should be competing for a shirt with one or two others, instead we have the frankly ridiculous and unnecessary rotation of players who are all costing the club money but not moving us forwards. For another example, look at the goalkeeping situation, one which hasn’t been learnt from over a number of years.
Where we are in the league as a club is fine, it’s better than fine. However, for those loyal fans who are going regularly to games will openly admit, the actual reality isn’t as enjoyable as it once was. As said, that has to be recognised and accountability to be taken for it to start to change. It’s certainly not an impossible job. |
As an aside, Gillam must perform absolute miracles in training because the fact that he gets in ahead of any of our current forwards baffles me | | | |
| The squad on 11:55 - Jan 1 with 5234 views | fitzochris |
| The squad on 10:38 - Jan 1 by 442Dale |
We were fourth after the new year’s fixtures exactly two years ago. What’s happened since has been both avoidable and needs to be learnt from. That requires a level of accountability and recognition that getting things wrong is fine, but to continue in the same vein means that criticism is perfectly justifiable.
It’s been debated to death on here, but I’ve yet to see any decent argument that supports us carrying such a large squad of players who, in the main, are all much the same level. To use one example (and it’s not to start a debate about the individuals involved), if the manager has such faith in a young player like Gillam, why have we got all of Williams11, Inman, Dooley, Clough, Thompson all at the club? If we have promising youngsters, they should be competing for a shirt with one or two others, instead we have the frankly ridiculous and unnecessary rotation of players who are all costing the club money but not moving us forwards. For another example, look at the goalkeeping situation, one which hasn’t been learnt from over a number of years.
Where we are in the league as a club is fine, it’s better than fine. However, for those loyal fans who are going regularly to games will openly admit, the actual reality isn’t as enjoyable as it once was. As said, that has to be recognised and accountability to be taken for it to start to change. It’s certainly not an impossible job. |
These are my thoughts exactly. |  |
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| The squad on 12:02 - Jan 1 with 5222 views | davidab2202 |
If we enter the loan market again to solve our alleged goalkeeping issues(assuming that we have seen enough of Norman as I suspect we have and the young lad Wade looks as though he may be doing a "Diba")lets hope for a Fielding ,Heaton, Hammerman or even a Tommy Lee type of success rather than someone who is no better than what we have already got.
It must do absolutely nothing for any player's confidence to be replaced by someone that they see as not being any better than they are.
A manager can only imply that a player is not up to the job so many times before the player believes it (e.g United defenders) and that can't be good | | | |
| The squad on 12:33 - Jan 1 with 5115 views | electricblue |
All depends if Dale are willing to pay towards the GK wages if they want a decent option....
I for one cannot see that happening..... | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| The squad on 13:23 - Jan 1 with 4966 views | isitme |
| The squad on 10:38 - Jan 1 by 442Dale |
We were fourth after the new year’s fixtures exactly two years ago. What’s happened since has been both avoidable and needs to be learnt from. That requires a level of accountability and recognition that getting things wrong is fine, but to continue in the same vein means that criticism is perfectly justifiable.
It’s been debated to death on here, but I’ve yet to see any decent argument that supports us carrying such a large squad of players who, in the main, are all much the same level. To use one example (and it’s not to start a debate about the individuals involved), if the manager has such faith in a young player like Gillam, why have we got all of Williams11, Inman, Dooley, Clough, Thompson all at the club? If we have promising youngsters, they should be competing for a shirt with one or two others, instead we have the frankly ridiculous and unnecessary rotation of players who are all costing the club money but not moving us forwards. For another example, look at the goalkeeping situation, one which hasn’t been learnt from over a number of years.
Where we are in the league as a club is fine, it’s better than fine. However, for those loyal fans who are going regularly to games will openly admit, the actual reality isn’t as enjoyable as it once was. As said, that has to be recognised and accountability to be taken for it to start to change. It’s certainly not an impossible job. |
The team when we played Walsall away on 2/1/17 was:
Logan
Rafferty
Keane
McNulty
Bunney
Rathbone
Lund
Camps
Thompson
Andrew
Henderson
With a bench of Lillis, Canavan, McGahey, Allen, Noble-Lazarus, Mendez-Laing and Davies.
If you compare that to the squad we started the season you would say we were much better served, on paper this season, but it has not been the case. The goalkeeper issues have again not been solved. It should be play Lillis or sign someone else and release Josh, rather than keep giving him contract extensions. As you and many other have rightly said we have too many players, who are too similar in ability and playing style. Where is our quick forward? Where is our physical midfielder?
There is no doubt that we miss the likes of Mendez-Laing, Allen and a fit Lund but players such as Rafferty and Camps have stagnated, if not gone backwards in terms of development.
What is the answer? There are a number of players out of contract in the summer so there could be a rebalancing of the squad but we have half a season to go and a league one place to secure. Surely a smaller squad with different options would be better. This would also provide more bench options to younger players like Morley who, in my opinion offer more to the club long term than a revolving door of fringe players. |  | | |
| The squad on 13:46 - Jan 1 with 4885 views | SalwaDale |
Some very good logic in this thread. Agree with most of it. RAFC New Year resolutions:
1) Stop treating the fans as idiots - we’re not
2) Be positive | |
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| The squad on 14:55 - Jan 1 with 4709 views | DaleiLama |
| The squad on 10:38 - Jan 1 by 442Dale |
We were fourth after the new year’s fixtures exactly two years ago. What’s happened since has been both avoidable and needs to be learnt from. That requires a level of accountability and recognition that getting things wrong is fine, but to continue in the same vein means that criticism is perfectly justifiable.
It’s been debated to death on here, but I’ve yet to see any decent argument that supports us carrying such a large squad of players who, in the main, are all much the same level. To use one example (and it’s not to start a debate about the individuals involved), if the manager has such faith in a young player like Gillam, why have we got all of Williams11, Inman, Dooley, Clough, Thompson all at the club? If we have promising youngsters, they should be competing for a shirt with one or two others, instead we have the frankly ridiculous and unnecessary rotation of players who are all costing the club money but not moving us forwards. For another example, look at the goalkeeping situation, one which hasn’t been learnt from over a number of years.
Where we are in the league as a club is fine, it’s better than fine. However, for those loyal fans who are going regularly to games will openly admit, the actual reality isn’t as enjoyable as it once was. As said, that has to be recognised and accountability to be taken for it to start to change. It’s certainly not an impossible job. |
Agree - the issues have been done to death as have the solutions - my intention was not to stir the pot and re-rehash everything, just to suggest that there is a difference in it "all having gone wrong" and being out of the L1 relegation zone and needing to tweak some stuff and make some changes. Apologies if that didn't come over.
The only thing I'll add is that "it certainly isn't as enjoyable as it was" is an understatement if ever there was one. We need to take a leaf out of the OGS coaching manual! Again, though, it's all been said already. | |
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| The squad on 15:49 - Jan 1 with 4612 views | CanaDale |
| The squad on 16:07 - Dec 31 by electricblue |
As nobody ever thought that it one or two seasons its going to be a struggle!
That is whats happening now....
Dale have done well on the budgets of the past seasons and it will catch up and in fact it as..
I for one dont understand paying £3k a week if its true to a 38yr old and similar to perkins...
I suppose you have to sign players of experience to give Morley and Adshead the experience of playing and training along the side of them.... |
It's not just about struggling to decent teams, it is about decisions the manager is making, with team selection and tactics, that are destroying the house from the inside. |  | | |
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