| A Brexit Benefit 18:02 - Dec 27 with 5854 views | johnlangy |
I voted remain in the Brexit referendum but this to me appears to be an example of an enormous potential benefit to the UK of leaving the EU which I hadn’t thought of. Or rather an enormous potential benefit to working people in the UK of leaving the EU.
For the last fifty years or so businesses and governments have benefited enormously from access to cheap labour from the EU, mainly Eastern Europeans. Businesses didn’t have to bother particularly about recruitment and retention and training of UK workers because they could take the easy option of bringing in people who were already trained and who would work for less. Which means those businesses were more profitable.
Governments have taken the same attitude. Why spend a fortune training doctors for example when we can get them from other countries. Those countries will have borne the cost of the training and the UK could easily pay them more than their home countries. Everyone’s a winner.
Everyone except of course the other poorer countries who then had to spend more to train more doctors to replace the ones we’d stolen. Everyone also except the British people who may have wanted to train as doctors but found there were no training places for them. The government would have argued that because they were able to cut back on training places for our own doctors (because we’d imported foreign ones) that meant that there was more money available to spend elsewhere.
The problem is that eventually these things come back to bite you on the bum. And the problem has become so much worse over the last thirteen years. About a year ago a Health Trust in Cumbria asked for permission to train an extra thirty doctors that they desperately needed. The answer they got back from the NHS was that if they allowed them to do that they (the NHS) would have to cut thirty places elsewhere in the system. Because the government had cut back on investment in doctor training. This in the middle of a crisis in the numbers of doctors within the NHS.
Similar points could be made for nurses and care workers. Plus so many other groups. Remember two years ago when we didn’t have enough HGV drivers ? Again why train our own when we can take them from other countries.
Now we’ve got the strange situation of the government allowing three times as many immigrants into the country as compared with before Brexit in order to fill the gaps. You might ask what was the point of Brexit. And the answer might be that we’ve taken back control of our borders. The government is in control of who comes in which is what brexiteers wanted. Except people don’t want 750,000 immigrants coming in each year even when the government is in control.
So what’s going to happen ? What if we do really ‘take back control’ and the number of immigrants is cut drastically. Who is going to do the jobs that are left ? British people presumably. Except they’ll say no thank you. They’ll say why should I take a job in a care home, for example, at a low wage. Why should I take a job where I don’t get paid enough to live on, where I have to claim benefits just to get by.
And they’d be right to say no. It’s just a couple of years since people working in care homes were lauded as heroes. They were doing a crucial job in looking after the elderly. And many of them died doing that job because of the criminal decisions taken by the government. If it is a crucial job why doesn’t it pay more ?
And what about other jobs also shown to be crucial during Covid – binmen, supermarket workers, delivery drivers and so on. They are all basic jobs you might say but vitally important when it comes to the whole system working.
So, let’s say we stop most immigration. If businesses want to employ people they will have to actually train British workers to do all these jobs. And pay them a decent wage for doing them. And even if a lot of training is not needed for some jobs it’s been shown that those ‘basic’ jobs are so important in a decent society. So they also will have to be paid a decent, proper living wage.
Which all means that finally all British workers could start being paid a decent wage for their efforts. And in the sixth biggest economy in the world you would imagine that that is exactly as it should be.
Pie in the sky a lot of people will say. Maybe. But it appears that a large majority of British people don’t want mass immigration. So if that immigration is cut to the bone it’s either pay British workers a decent wage to do the jobs or the jobs don’t get done.
And the result of all those ‘crucial’ jobs not being done ? Ever bigger NHS waiting lists, less care home beds available etc etc,
We are in for some very interesting times. |  | | |  |
| A Brexit Benefit on 12:12 - Jan 2 with 1186 views | felixstowe_jack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 11:07 - Jan 2 by Kilkennyjack |
You cant bullshite reality …. |
You think after 7 years since the vote you would finally accept the democratic wishes of the Welsh and UK voters.
Make a New Year's resolution to support democracy. | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 22:00 - Jan 2 with 1125 views | Kilkennyjack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 12:12 - Jan 2 by felixstowe_jack |
You think after 7 years since the vote you would finally accept the democratic wishes of the Welsh and UK voters.
Make a New Year's resolution to support democracy. |
Democracy did not end 7 years ago.
It was based on Johnsons lies.
Maybe on Russian money…?
But when reality hits home then the UK will rejoin.
Starmer will call it alignment or whatever but its an inevitable outcome.
Brexit ended with the end of Johnson.
Maybe another vote 10/12 years after 2016 ?
Not too long to wait now.
Tick Tock. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| A Brexit Benefit on 10:51 - Jan 3 with 1092 views | felixstowe_jack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 22:00 - Jan 2 by Kilkennyjack |
Democracy did not end 7 years ago.
It was based on Johnsons lies.
Maybe on Russian money…?
But when reality hits home then the UK will rejoin.
Starmer will call it alignment or whatever but its an inevitable outcome.
Brexit ended with the end of Johnson.
Maybe another vote 10/12 years after 2016 ?
Not too long to wait now.
Tick Tock. |
Still refusing to accept the democratic results. Not as if tye Remainers did not tell lies as well. Remember they promised an extra 3 million unemployed and that the £ would crash.
Actual reality EU unemployed 50% higher than UK.
The £ is higher against both the € and $ over the last 5 years.
How is devolution going . Those who supported devolution said Wales would prosper will the new Welsh Assembly. In fact it has gone into decline in the last 25 years. Perhaps it is time to have another referendum as you seem so keen to have them. | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 12:29 - Jan 3 with 1070 views | controversial_jack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 10:51 - Jan 3 by felixstowe_jack |
Still refusing to accept the democratic results. Not as if tye Remainers did not tell lies as well. Remember they promised an extra 3 million unemployed and that the £ would crash.
Actual reality EU unemployed 50% higher than UK.
The £ is higher against both the € and $ over the last 5 years.
How is devolution going . Those who supported devolution said Wales would prosper will the new Welsh Assembly. In fact it has gone into decline in the last 25 years. Perhaps it is time to have another referendum as you seem so keen to have them. |
You wouldn't be against another referendum to rejoin then? | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 20:28 - Jan 3 with 1043 views | felixstowe_jack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 12:29 - Jan 3 by controversial_jack |
You wouldn't be against another referendum to rejoin then? |
A new referendum on rejoining after a period of 20 years seems sensible. We had a referendum on remaining in the common market in 1975 and the politicians promised a referendum if there were any major changes in our membership term.
Since 1975 it has changed from a trading block common market to a virtual federal state.
After all people have been call for a new referendum on devolution in Wales. The last one we had was 25 years ago so perhaps the time has come to hold one.
In Scotland they had an independence referendum in 2014 which the Scottish people decisively rejected. Despite 9 years of SNP rule support for independence has not increased. | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 22:01 - Jan 3 with 1027 views | controversial_jack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 20:28 - Jan 3 by felixstowe_jack |
A new referendum on rejoining after a period of 20 years seems sensible. We had a referendum on remaining in the common market in 1975 and the politicians promised a referendum if there were any major changes in our membership term.
Since 1975 it has changed from a trading block common market to a virtual federal state.
After all people have been call for a new referendum on devolution in Wales. The last one we had was 25 years ago so perhaps the time has come to hold one.
In Scotland they had an independence referendum in 2014 which the Scottish people decisively rejected. Despite 9 years of SNP rule support for independence has not increased. |
A vote after 20 years, that’s not very democratic is it? | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 08:17 - Jan 4 with 992 views | felixstowe_jack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 22:01 - Jan 3 by controversial_jack |
A vote after 20 years, that’s not very democratic is it? |
Certainly is we have general elections every 5 years. Any party can put proposals to hold referendum in their manifesto.
The SNP put it in every year. The Welsh government never give the voters any choice. The UK government have had two referendums in the last tens years. | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 10:54 - Jan 4 with 963 views | controversial_jack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 08:17 - Jan 4 by felixstowe_jack |
Certainly is we have general elections every 5 years. Any party can put proposals to hold referendum in their manifesto.
The SNP put it in every year. The Welsh government never give the voters any choice. The UK government have had two referendums in the last tens years. |
You stated every 20 years though! | | | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 19:14 - Jan 4 with 912 views | Kilkennyjack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 10:51 - Jan 3 by felixstowe_jack |
Still refusing to accept the democratic results. Not as if tye Remainers did not tell lies as well. Remember they promised an extra 3 million unemployed and that the £ would crash.
Actual reality EU unemployed 50% higher than UK.
The £ is higher against both the € and $ over the last 5 years.
How is devolution going . Those who supported devolution said Wales would prosper will the new Welsh Assembly. In fact it has gone into decline in the last 25 years. Perhaps it is time to have another referendum as you seem so keen to have them. |
The UK will rejoin the EU.
You know this, i know this, everyone knows this.
You posts are a denial of reality.
Brexit is dead.
I think the next vote must include joining the Euro.
The welsh europeans have been proven correct. 🏴🤝🇪🇺 | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| A Brexit Benefit on 19:46 - Jan 4 with 897 views | felixstowe_jack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 19:14 - Jan 4 by Kilkennyjack |
The UK will rejoin the EU.
You know this, i know this, everyone knows this.
You posts are a denial of reality.
Brexit is dead.
I think the next vote must include joining the Euro.
The welsh europeans have been proven correct. 🏴🤝🇪🇺 |
Wales and the UK voted to leave . Get over it and accept democracy. | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 19:49 - Jan 4 with 895 views | felixstowe_jack |
Yes that is a reasonable amount of time to gauge the benefits.
It is 25 years since the Welsh Devolution referendum I don't know anyone who thinks Wales has benefited from it except a few a Cardiff Bay. | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 23:04 - Jan 4 with 868 views | controversial_jack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 19:49 - Jan 4 by felixstowe_jack |
Yes that is a reasonable amount of time to gauge the benefits.
It is 25 years since the Welsh Devolution referendum I don't know anyone who thinks Wales has benefited from it except a few a Cardiff Bay. |
It’s not about gauging results, we know those already , it’s about a choice . 20 years is hardly democratic | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 09:16 - Jan 5 with 815 views | Kilkennyjack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 19:49 - Jan 4 by felixstowe_jack |
Yes that is a reasonable amount of time to gauge the benefits.
It is 25 years since the Welsh Devolution referendum I don't know anyone who thinks Wales has benefited from it except a few a Cardiff Bay. |
Lots of welsh people preferred Drakeford to the liar Johnson during the pandemic.
You needed to live in Wales to understand that i guess.
Although we do have the 60 year old BritNat yoons who regularly yell at the clouds. They shake their fists as well. This does not make them correct on many complex issues. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| A Brexit Benefit on 10:24 - Jan 5 with 802 views | felixstowe_jack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 09:16 - Jan 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Lots of welsh people preferred Drakeford to the liar Johnson during the pandemic.
You needed to live in Wales to understand that i guess.
Although we do have the 60 year old BritNat yoons who regularly yell at the clouds. They shake their fists as well. This does not make them correct on many complex issues. |
The minority Welsh Nationalist 20% of the population are nearly always wrong and never answer a direct question. Wonder why?
Very few Welsh people think Drakeford has done a good job. Most labour supporters cheered when he announced he was resigning . | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 10:38 - Jan 5 with 791 views | onehunglow |
| A Brexit Benefit on 09:16 - Jan 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Lots of welsh people preferred Drakeford to the liar Johnson during the pandemic.
You needed to live in Wales to understand that i guess.
Although we do have the 60 year old BritNat yoons who regularly yell at the clouds. They shake their fists as well. This does not make them correct on many complex issues. |
In fairness ,that’s a low bar | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 11:22 - Jan 30 with 606 views | SullutaCreturned |
| A Brexit Benefit on 23:04 - Jan 4 by controversial_jack |
It’s not about gauging results, we know those already , it’s about a choice . 20 years is hardly democratic |
You may be right, in which case why will the Senedd (or most of the devo supporters) sanction a referendum on devolution? It's been 25 years.
Kilkenny is always spouting democracy didn't end with brexit so why can't the pro UK people have their vote? | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 11:30 - Jan 30 with 600 views | SullutaCreturned |
| A Brexit Benefit on 09:16 - Jan 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Lots of welsh people preferred Drakeford to the liar Johnson during the pandemic.
You needed to live in Wales to understand that i guess.
Although we do have the 60 year old BritNat yoons who regularly yell at the clouds. They shake their fists as well. This does not make them correct on many complex issues. |
Drakeford, the lesser of two evils, hardly a good recommendation when even his own party want him gone now.
How do you know people shake their fists? How do yu know they yell at the clouds? Just more stupid hyperbole from you.
May on here laugh at you, I laugh at you. You refuse to answr questions which most likely means you don't know an answer or you know the answer makes you look even more.....well, you know. its about all you know.
Tell me, why would you wish for indy when even the Commission that say it is viable stated clearly that it will come with problems and that Wales will be financially worse off for years? You said only a fool votes to make themselves worse off, in this case self praise is spot on. You would vote to make all of us worse off.
I dont expect youll answwr that point though, if you do answer it'll be another tangent you spout off about, Bojo related, maybe the House f greedy Lords, Westmisnter waste could be...but you NEVER answer a direct question about an Indy Wales and the problems it would have. Maybe one day you will, go on, try it.... | | | |
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