| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. 11:59 - May 9 with 5174 views | felixstowe_jack |
The USA, UK and France have snubbed the Russian victory day parade which celebrates the Allies victory of Hitler's Germany.
Rather ironic as Russian is at war with Ukraine, which as part of USSR, had the highest percentage of war time casualties and made up 20% of the red army at the time.
In another snub the EU President was visiting Kyiv today in support of Ukraine.
The Moscow parade was a much scaled down version with 25% less soldiers, less military hardware, no modern tanks on display and no air flypast. It was also an hour shorter than usual
The Russian people were banned from attending for the first time ever. Russian cited security issues and possible anti war protests as the reason for this.
Most victory parades in other Russian cities were either cancelled or much curtailed with Russian again citing security issues, possible anti war demonstrations and a lack of military hardware and personnel. |  |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 09:19 - May 10 with 3356 views | felixstowe_jack |
No response from our Russian correspondent. | |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 10:34 - May 10 with 3345 views | Togg |
The war in Ukraine is becoming Russia's Vietnam. It could drag on for years. | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 11:17 - May 10 with 3329 views | controversial_jack |
I'm sure Putin would have lost sleep over that.Shame on these countries though for not acknowledging Russia's huge sacrifice in defeating the NAZIs | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 12:07 - May 10 with 3312 views | felixstowe_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 11:17 - May 10 by controversial_jack |
I'm sure Putin would have lost sleep over that.Shame on these countries though for not acknowledging Russia's huge sacrifice in defeating the NAZIs |
Shame that Russia was on the same side as Hitlers side at the start of the war and they both invaded. They only became our allies once Hitler invaded them. Thankfully the allies, plane, tanks ammunition into Russia via the Russian convoys which gave Russia enough time to halt Hitler's advance.
Sounds very familiar the West helping to arm a country invaded by hostile forces. | |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 13:34 - May 10 with 3278 views | Togg |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 11:17 - May 10 by controversial_jack |
I'm sure Putin would have lost sleep over that.Shame on these countries though for not acknowledging Russia's huge sacrifice in defeating the NAZIs |
Shame on them for exterminating minorities. Shame on them for having a brutal despot of a leader. A megalomaniac the equal of most. Shame on them for creating the Iron Curtain and persecuting any residence or people who didn't fit in with their brutal Communist ideal. | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 14:02 - May 10 with 3271 views | Togg |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 12:07 - May 10 by felixstowe_jack |
Shame that Russia was on the same side as Hitlers side at the start of the war and they both invaded. They only became our allies once Hitler invaded them. Thankfully the allies, plane, tanks ammunition into Russia via the Russian convoys which gave Russia enough time to halt Hitler's advance.
Sounds very familiar the West helping to arm a country invaded by hostile forces. |
USA were sending weaponry to Russia before they got physically involved. | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 15:24 - May 10 with 3250 views | controversial_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 13:34 - May 10 by Togg |
Shame on them for exterminating minorities. Shame on them for having a brutal despot of a leader. A megalomaniac the equal of most. Shame on them for creating the Iron Curtain and persecuting any residence or people who didn't fit in with their brutal Communist ideal. |
Yes, shame on the Ukranian nazi brigades for doing that to Russian separatists in the Donbass. | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 15:26 - May 10 with 3247 views | controversial_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 14:02 - May 10 by Togg |
USA were sending weaponry to Russia before they got physically involved. |
Lend lease didn't reach Russia until after the battle of Stalingrad. However, Britain was sending convoys well before that. Up to a third of their equipment in the battle for Moscow was British tanks and fighter aircraft | | | |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 17:50 - May 10 with 3220 views | Togg |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 15:24 - May 10 by controversial_jack |
Yes, shame on the Ukranian nazi brigades for doing that to Russian separatists in the Donbass. |
A land which is in Ukraine. Look stop defending the indefensible. 'Special Operation ' or whatever it was called, just a euphemism for declaring war on a sovereign country. You've obviously got a thing for Russia and the old USSR but hey it's like you're supporting your local football team. We are talking about people dying. Many Ukrainians died fighting Hitler. | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 17:59 - May 10 with 3216 views | Togg |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 17:50 - May 10 by Togg |
A land which is in Ukraine. Look stop defending the indefensible. 'Special Operation ' or whatever it was called, just a euphemism for declaring war on a sovereign country. You've obviously got a thing for Russia and the old USSR but hey it's like you're supporting your local football team. We are talking about people dying. Many Ukrainians died fighting Hitler. |
A lot of the media believe that most of the persecution of the Russian speakers in Donbass is propaganda and excuse.
https://bitterwinter.org/donbass-did-ukraine-kill-14000-pro-russians/ | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 17:59 - May 10 with 3216 views | SullutaCreturned |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 15:26 - May 10 by controversial_jack |
Lend lease didn't reach Russia until after the battle of Stalingrad. However, Britain was sending convoys well before that. Up to a third of their equipment in the battle for Moscow was British tanks and fighter aircraft |
Wrong, the first deliveries happened in 1941, Stalingrad was August 42.
Takem from Wiki,
"Pre Lend-lease" June 22, 1941, to September 30, 1941 (paid for in gold and other minerals)
First protocol period from October 1, 1941, to June 30, 1942 (signed October 7, 1941),[55] these supplies were to be manufactured and delivered by the UK with US credit financing.
Second protocol period from July 1, 1942, to June 30, 1943 (signed October 6, 1942)
Third protocol period from July 1, 1943, to June 30, 1944 (signed October 19, 1943)
Fourth protocol period from July 1, 1944 (signed April 17, 1945), formally ended May 12, 1945, but deliveries continued for the duration of the war with Japan (which the Soviet Union entered on August 8, 1945) under the "Milepost" agreement until September 2, 1945, when Japan capitulated. On September 20, 1945, all Lend-Lease to the Soviet Union was terminated.
The first deliveries were non miliyary though. | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 18:02 - May 10 with 3213 views | SullutaCreturned |
The Russians in the Donbass started the whole thing off, they were using force to try and split from Ukraine.
There were no modern tanks at this "parade" because most of them have been destroyed in Ukraine and quite a few of the burned out hulks are on display in Kyiv! | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 23:23 - May 10 with 3186 views | DJack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 11:17 - May 10 by controversial_jack |
I'm sure Putin would have lost sleep over that.Shame on these countries though for not acknowledging Russia's huge sacrifice in defeating the NAZIs |
You've not once mentioned that of the Soviet forces that fought the Nazi's one of the biggest contingent were Ukranians... |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 23:50 - May 10 with 3181 views | controversial_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 17:59 - May 10 by SullutaCreturned |
Wrong, the first deliveries happened in 1941, Stalingrad was August 42.
Takem from Wiki,
"Pre Lend-lease" June 22, 1941, to September 30, 1941 (paid for in gold and other minerals)
First protocol period from October 1, 1941, to June 30, 1942 (signed October 7, 1941),[55] these supplies were to be manufactured and delivered by the UK with US credit financing.
Second protocol period from July 1, 1942, to June 30, 1943 (signed October 6, 1942)
Third protocol period from July 1, 1943, to June 30, 1944 (signed October 19, 1943)
Fourth protocol period from July 1, 1944 (signed April 17, 1945), formally ended May 12, 1945, but deliveries continued for the duration of the war with Japan (which the Soviet Union entered on August 8, 1945) under the "Milepost" agreement until September 2, 1945, when Japan capitulated. On September 20, 1945, all Lend-Lease to the Soviet Union was terminated.
The first deliveries were non miliyary though. |
You may find this an interesting read. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/lend-lease-helped-win-world-war-ii-not-ea | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 00:39 - May 11 with 3172 views | DJack |
"Most famously, Soviet dictator Josef Stalin raised a toast to the Lend-Lease program at the November 1943 Tehran conference with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill and U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt.
"I want to tell you what, from the Russian point of view, the president and the United States have done for victory in this war," Stalin said. "The most important things in this war are the machines.... The United States is a country of machines. Without the machines we received through Lend-Lease, we would have lost the war."
Nikita Khrushchev offered the same opinion.
"If the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war," he wrote in his memoirs. "One-on-one against Hitler's Germany, we would not have withstood its onslaught and would have lost the war. No one talks about this officially, and Stalin never, I think, left any written traces of his opinion, but I can say that he expressed this view several times in conversations with me."
In 1963, KGB monitoring recorded Soviet Marshal Georgy Zhukov saying: "People say that the allies didn't help us. But it cannot be denied that the Americans sent us materiel without which we could not have formed our reserves or continued the war. The Americans provided vital explosives and gunpowder. And how much steel! Could we really have set up the production of our tanks without American steel? And now they are saying that we had plenty of everything on our own.""
https://www.rferl.org/a/did-us-lend-lease-aid-tip-the-balance-in-soviet-fight-ag | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 00:43 - May 11 with 3171 views | DJack |
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| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 08:25 - May 11 with 3124 views | felixstowe_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 18:02 - May 10 by SullutaCreturned |
The Russians in the Donbass started the whole thing off, they were using force to try and split from Ukraine.
There were no modern tanks at this "parade" because most of them have been destroyed in Ukraine and quite a few of the burned out hulks are on display in Kyiv! |
They had one vintage 70 year old tank in the parade. | |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 10:05 - May 11 with 3098 views | controversial_jack |
Churchill expressed support for the USSR practically on the day of the German invasion and Roosevelt — almost immediately thereafter, but no practical assistance from the expectant allies followed till November 15. The first protocol on military supplies planned for the period of time from October 1, 1941 till June 30, 1942 was signed in Moscow on October 1, 1941, and the first convoy carrying 150 aircrafts, 150 tanks, 52 anti-aircraft cannons, 156 anti-tank cannons, and other materiel reached Russia's northern city of Arkhangelsk on August 23.
It has to be taken into account that quantities never reflect the whole picture. For example, timing is also a significant parameter, and, notably, the volumes of the US, British, and Canadian aid peaked in the summer of 1943 — the fall of 1945, that is, after it became clear that the Soviet Union was prevailing. This should explain why, watching the footage dating back to the pivotal Battle of Stalingrad or the battle over the coal-rich Donbass, you will not spot the Studebaker trucks, the Dodge and Willys army jeeps, the General Grant and Valentine tanks, the Airacobra and Spitfire aircrafts, etc.
It is indicative of the allies' attitude that it took the Red Army to deal the Wehrmacht a devastating blow in the Battle of Stalingrad to give a boost to the US and British supplies to the USSR. Studebakers, undoubtedly the best trucks at the time, showed up in Russia in numbers only by the spring of 1943 along with other US vehicles and aircrafts, and the supply of military ships to the USSR rose to considerable proportions only in the spring of 1944 | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 12:13 - May 11 with 3085 views | SullutaCreturned |
Yes, we know, the Russians say leand-lease didn't make the difference to which I will say, why were they so keen to get the help then?
When Lend-lease started the Russians were very short of tanks and the materiels to make them. When they started turning out the far superior T34 the tide well and truly turned but without lend-lease the Germans may have beaten them before they got that far.
As that link states, lend lease did start before Stalingrad with the unsung hero of it all being the humble truck.
It doesn't validate either of our arguments in the end either, it says "inconclusive" | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 22:27 - May 11 with 3036 views | controversial_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 12:13 - May 11 by SullutaCreturned |
Yes, we know, the Russians say leand-lease didn't make the difference to which I will say, why were they so keen to get the help then?
When Lend-lease started the Russians were very short of tanks and the materiels to make them. When they started turning out the far superior T34 the tide well and truly turned but without lend-lease the Germans may have beaten them before they got that far.
As that link states, lend lease did start before Stalingrad with the unsung hero of it all being the humble truck.
It doesn't validate either of our arguments in the end either, it says "inconclusive" |
I never stated it didn’t help, but as was stated, the bulk of the equipment didn’t arrive till much later. It wasn’t a game changer | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 15:58 - May 12 with 2988 views | SullutaCreturned |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 22:27 - May 11 by controversial_jack |
I never stated it didn’t help, but as was stated, the bulk of the equipment didn’t arrive till much later. It wasn’t a game changer |
AGAIN, without the help they got the Russians may have been beaten. Stalingrad may have fallen, Moscow may have fallen because without the lend lease equipment many more Russian soldiers would have been killed.
Without the trucks who knows...
https://www.rbth.com/history/333156-how-us-studebaker-became-soviet
They first arrived in the Autumn of 1941, long before Stalingrad, it could well have been the game changer as many Russina troops have stated great things about these trucks. | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 17:36 - May 12 with 2969 views | controversial_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 15:58 - May 12 by SullutaCreturned |
AGAIN, without the help they got the Russians may have been beaten. Stalingrad may have fallen, Moscow may have fallen because without the lend lease equipment many more Russian soldiers would have been killed.
Without the trucks who knows...
https://www.rbth.com/history/333156-how-us-studebaker-became-soviet
They first arrived in the Autumn of 1941, long before Stalingrad, it could well have been the game changer as many Russina troops have stated great things about these trucks. |
30% of the tanks and fighter aircraft at the battle of Moscow was British made. Britain was sending the arctic convoys, but it was insufficient. Don't forget, the NAZIS, launched operation Barbarosa on the 3 fronts with 3 Army groups. about 3 million men, plus the equipment. A few poxy trucks wouldn't make the slightest difference | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 18:09 - May 12 with 2960 views | felixstowe_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 17:36 - May 12 by controversial_jack |
30% of the tanks and fighter aircraft at the battle of Moscow was British made. Britain was sending the arctic convoys, but it was insufficient. Don't forget, the NAZIS, launched operation Barbarosa on the 3 fronts with 3 Army groups. about 3 million men, plus the equipment. A few poxy trucks wouldn't make the slightest difference |
Glad you agree the Russians only halted the German advance on Moscow will the help of the UK. | |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 18:35 - May 12 with 2957 views | SullutaCreturned |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 17:36 - May 12 by controversial_jack |
30% of the tanks and fighter aircraft at the battle of Moscow was British made. Britain was sending the arctic convoys, but it was insufficient. Don't forget, the NAZIS, launched operation Barbarosa on the 3 fronts with 3 Army groups. about 3 million men, plus the equipment. A few poxy trucks wouldn't make the slightest difference |
Well it was a lot, lot more that " a few poxy trucks" at over 200,000 in the end. Those trucks were used for everything and anything and were credited with making a big difference, by the Russians.
No army can win if it's supply lines don't work. | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 22:55 - May 12 with 2924 views | controversial_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 18:35 - May 12 by SullutaCreturned |
Well it was a lot, lot more that " a few poxy trucks" at over 200,000 in the end. Those trucks were used for everything and anything and were credited with making a big difference, by the Russians.
No army can win if it's supply lines don't work. |
As Stalin said, America gave the money, Russia gave the blood and Britain gave the time | | | |
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