| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. 11:59 - May 9 with 5175 views | felixstowe_jack |
The USA, UK and France have snubbed the Russian victory day parade which celebrates the Allies victory of Hitler's Germany.
Rather ironic as Russian is at war with Ukraine, which as part of USSR, had the highest percentage of war time casualties and made up 20% of the red army at the time.
In another snub the EU President was visiting Kyiv today in support of Ukraine.
The Moscow parade was a much scaled down version with 25% less soldiers, less military hardware, no modern tanks on display and no air flypast. It was also an hour shorter than usual
The Russian people were banned from attending for the first time ever. Russian cited security issues and possible anti war protests as the reason for this.
Most victory parades in other Russian cities were either cancelled or much curtailed with Russian again citing security issues, possible anti war demonstrations and a lack of military hardware and personnel. |  |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 01:36 - May 13 with 1142 views | DJack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 22:55 - May 12 by controversial_jack |
As Stalin said, America gave the money, Russia gave the blood and Britain gave the time |
And you are forgetting the Ukranians and others again. |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 21:22 - May 13 with 1080 views | SullutaCreturned |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 22:55 - May 12 by controversial_jack |
As Stalin said, America gave the money, Russia gave the blood and Britain gave the time |
Actually the USA and britain gave plenty of blood too.
Many Sailors died on the arctic route taking supplies to Russia to start with.
The Jews gave plentu of blood too.
Something like 8.6 million Russian soldiers died but ask yourself this, how many more may have died without lend-lease? | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 21:35 - May 13 with 1075 views | controversial_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 21:22 - May 13 by SullutaCreturned |
Actually the USA and britain gave plenty of blood too.
Many Sailors died on the arctic route taking supplies to Russia to start with.
The Jews gave plentu of blood too.
Something like 8.6 million Russian soldiers died but ask yourself this, how many more may have died without lend-lease? |
I’m not saying it didn’t help , but it wasn’t a game changer.
How many Americans, Brits or Canadians would have died if the Red army hadn’t defeated the Nazis on the eastern front? They killed 4 times more than the other allies did combined | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 00:09 - May 14 with 1054 views | felixstowe_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 22:55 - May 12 by controversial_jack |
As Stalin said, America gave the money, Russia gave the blood and Britain gave the time |
Every country in WW11 gave blood a lot of it Russian blood as Stalin killed his own officers. Never forget the massacre of 10 of thousands of Polish prisoners of war executed on Stalin and the politburo orders. | |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 00:29 - May 14 with 1048 views | controversial_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 00:09 - May 14 by felixstowe_jack |
Every country in WW11 gave blood a lot of it Russian blood as Stalin killed his own officers. Never forget the massacre of 10 of thousands of Polish prisoners of war executed on Stalin and the politburo orders. |
Don’t forget Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, Hsmburg,cologne. Absolute slaughter of civilians | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 07:39 - May 14 with 1022 views | Boundy |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 00:29 - May 14 by controversial_jack |
Don’t forget Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, Hsmburg,cologne. Absolute slaughter of civilians |
To stop more deaths , a world war started by Russia Germany and Japan , despite appeasement by the west which was ignored due to despots willing to sacrifice their own . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. (n/t) on 10:38 - May 14 with 1007 views | controversial_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 07:39 - May 14 by Boundy |
To stop more deaths , a world war started by Russia Germany and Japan , despite appeasement by the west which was ignored due to despots willing to sacrifice their own . |
[Post edited 14 May 2023 10:40]
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 10:40 - May 14 with 1006 views | controversial_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 07:39 - May 14 by Boundy |
To stop more deaths , a world war started by Russia Germany and Japan , despite appeasement by the west which was ignored due to despots willing to sacrifice their own . |
Hundreds of thousands of civilians were purposefully targeted and killed . Made Russia seem like saints in comparison | | | |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 10:47 - May 14 with 1005 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 00:29 - May 14 by controversial_jack |
Don’t forget Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, Hsmburg,cologne. Absolute slaughter of civilians |
They were Nazis though and therefore deserved it. Just like those people in Mariupol.
Sarcasm: off. |  |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 14:41 - May 14 with 990 views | controversial_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 10:47 - May 14 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
They were Nazis though and therefore deserved it. Just like those people in Mariupol.
Sarcasm: off. |
I didn't realise Japs were NAZIS. I learn something every day. Did I not mention the illegal sanctions we put onto Iraq, where hundreds of thousands died, mostly children. | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 14:59 - May 14 with 985 views | SullutaCreturned |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 21:35 - May 13 by controversial_jack |
I’m not saying it didn’t help , but it wasn’t a game changer.
How many Americans, Brits or Canadians would have died if the Red army hadn’t defeated the Nazis on the eastern front? They killed 4 times more than the other allies did combined |
Of course it changed things, without those trucks the supply lines would have dried up because Russian trucks weren't good enough.
You do like talking up the Russians, here you go, twice as many,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_casualties_in_World_War_II
https://www.britannica.com/event/World-War-II/Costs-of-the-war
You will keep misrepresenting figures. it's almosy as if you love Russia  | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 15:43 - May 14 with 974 views | controversial_jack |
During the war the ZIS-5 was used on all fronts, where it was greatly appreciated for its remarkably simple and reliable construction. Apart from cargo duties, the ZIS-5 was used as a light artillery tractor and for troop transportation (25 soldiers could sit in five benches placed in the rear body). ZIS-5 served also as base for many special trucks like refuellers, field workshops, ambulances, portee guns, and AA platforms.
After the GAZ-AA, the ZIS-5 was the 2nd most used Red Army truck of 1933-1943 period. The intensive growth of Lend Lease trucks shipping in 1943-1944 did not affect the first line use of the "Tryohtonka" (as soldiers called the ZIS-5 for its 3-ton payload), while the GAZ-AA got somewhat phased out to secondary roles.
The ZIS-5 showed remarkable service on the "Road of Life", the only supply line to the besieged city of Leningrad, opened on the frozen surface of the Ladoga Lake in the winter months during 1941—1944. This truck has the nickname Zakhar (Захар, "за характер", on the character) | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 16:11 - May 14 with 965 views | SullutaCreturned |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 15:43 - May 14 by controversial_jack |
During the war the ZIS-5 was used on all fronts, where it was greatly appreciated for its remarkably simple and reliable construction. Apart from cargo duties, the ZIS-5 was used as a light artillery tractor and for troop transportation (25 soldiers could sit in five benches placed in the rear body). ZIS-5 served also as base for many special trucks like refuellers, field workshops, ambulances, portee guns, and AA platforms.
After the GAZ-AA, the ZIS-5 was the 2nd most used Red Army truck of 1933-1943 period. The intensive growth of Lend Lease trucks shipping in 1943-1944 did not affect the first line use of the "Tryohtonka" (as soldiers called the ZIS-5 for its 3-ton payload), while the GAZ-AA got somewhat phased out to secondary roles.
The ZIS-5 showed remarkable service on the "Road of Life", the only supply line to the besieged city of Leningrad, opened on the frozen surface of the Ladoga Lake in the winter months during 1941—1944. This truck has the nickname Zakhar (Захар, "за характер", on the character) |
The ZIS 5 was a 4X2 whereas the Studebaker was a 6X6, the ZIS was not very good in winter and often broke down or got stuck in deep mud.
The Studebaker also had a winch so it could pull other vehicles out of the mud or indeed, it could pull itself free.
It was called the "Victory truck"
https://www.rbth.com/history/333156-how-us-studebaker-became-soviet
From that link....“There were plenty of trucks, but they got stuck on the roads and had to be pulled out of the mud literally by hand,” signalman Semyon Brevdo recalled. “The U.S. Studebaker trucks were a lifesaver. They came with a steel-cable winch above the front bumper ... The truck could pull itself out as long as there was something to attach the end of the cable to, and it could drag out other trucks too. Having one or two Studebakers in the column was the difference between success and failure.”
NB "the difference between success and failure. | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 16:37 - May 14 with 953 views | controversial_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 16:11 - May 14 by SullutaCreturned |
The ZIS 5 was a 4X2 whereas the Studebaker was a 6X6, the ZIS was not very good in winter and often broke down or got stuck in deep mud.
The Studebaker also had a winch so it could pull other vehicles out of the mud or indeed, it could pull itself free.
It was called the "Victory truck"
https://www.rbth.com/history/333156-how-us-studebaker-became-soviet
From that link....“There were plenty of trucks, but they got stuck on the roads and had to be pulled out of the mud literally by hand,” signalman Semyon Brevdo recalled. “The U.S. Studebaker trucks were a lifesaver. They came with a steel-cable winch above the front bumper ... The truck could pull itself out as long as there was something to attach the end of the cable to, and it could drag out other trucks too. Having one or two Studebakers in the column was the difference between success and failure.”
NB "the difference between success and failure. |
There is no doubt whatsoever that the US Lend-Lease program helped the Soviet Union take Berlin and end World War II with German defeat. However, if one looks at the data, it becomes apparent that it was not the deciding factor for saving the Soviet Union from the German invasion. There is much academic support for the fact that the Soviets would have defeated Germany even without Lend-Lease.
From 1941 to 1945, total lend-lease aid to the Soviet Union accounted for only 5% of the Soviet GDP in total. And it is a salient point that over 80% of the aid was received after June 1942, when the tide of the war had already turned against the Germans on the Eastern Front. The Soviets had already won the critical battles of Moscow, Stalingrad, and Kursk. Germany was already losing the war when Lend-Lease to the Soviet Union had any significant effect, and that effect was minuscule compared with Soviet production at the time. By the time the first Sherman laid its tracks on Soviet soil, the writing was already very much on the wall for the Third Reich. | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 19:42 - May 14 with 935 views | SullutaCreturned |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 16:37 - May 14 by controversial_jack |
There is no doubt whatsoever that the US Lend-Lease program helped the Soviet Union take Berlin and end World War II with German defeat. However, if one looks at the data, it becomes apparent that it was not the deciding factor for saving the Soviet Union from the German invasion. There is much academic support for the fact that the Soviets would have defeated Germany even without Lend-Lease.
From 1941 to 1945, total lend-lease aid to the Soviet Union accounted for only 5% of the Soviet GDP in total. And it is a salient point that over 80% of the aid was received after June 1942, when the tide of the war had already turned against the Germans on the Eastern Front. The Soviets had already won the critical battles of Moscow, Stalingrad, and Kursk. Germany was already losing the war when Lend-Lease to the Soviet Union had any significant effect, and that effect was minuscule compared with Soviet production at the time. By the time the first Sherman laid its tracks on Soviet soil, the writing was already very much on the wall for the Third Reich. |
Russian academics push your line, Western a historians push my line, they both push it too hard and the truth is in the middle somewhere and in all honesty, nobody can really know what would have happened without lend lease.
I still believe it helped massively. | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 10:50 - May 15 with 892 views | felixstowe_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 16:37 - May 14 by controversial_jack |
There is no doubt whatsoever that the US Lend-Lease program helped the Soviet Union take Berlin and end World War II with German defeat. However, if one looks at the data, it becomes apparent that it was not the deciding factor for saving the Soviet Union from the German invasion. There is much academic support for the fact that the Soviets would have defeated Germany even without Lend-Lease.
From 1941 to 1945, total lend-lease aid to the Soviet Union accounted for only 5% of the Soviet GDP in total. And it is a salient point that over 80% of the aid was received after June 1942, when the tide of the war had already turned against the Germans on the Eastern Front. The Soviets had already won the critical battles of Moscow, Stalingrad, and Kursk. Germany was already losing the war when Lend-Lease to the Soviet Union had any significant effect, and that effect was minuscule compared with Soviet production at the time. By the time the first Sherman laid its tracks on Soviet soil, the writing was already very much on the wall for the Third Reich. |
Without the Artic convoys it is doubtful Russia would have been able to defend Moscow.
As General Zhokov with the aid delivered in the early days the UUSSR would not have been able to hold the German advance which gave the Russians time to mobilise his Eastern armies as well as transfers his manufacturing to beyond the Urals.
Another factor often overlooked is the allied Air raids on Germany which resulted in over a million German servicemen having to stay and defend Germany including most of its air force and heavy artillery. | |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 11:13 - May 15 with 885 views | controversial_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 10:50 - May 15 by felixstowe_jack |
Without the Artic convoys it is doubtful Russia would have been able to defend Moscow.
As General Zhokov with the aid delivered in the early days the UUSSR would not have been able to hold the German advance which gave the Russians time to mobilise his Eastern armies as well as transfers his manufacturing to beyond the Urals.
Another factor often overlooked is the allied Air raids on Germany which resulted in over a million German servicemen having to stay and defend Germany including most of its air force and heavy artillery. |
Of course. it was a combined allied effort. The red army killed 4 times more Germans than the other allies put together. They liberated most of east Europe and got to Berlin. The western front was on a much smaller scale, but still contributed to the defeat of the Nazis.The Russians also took on the Japs in Manchuria and gave them a good hiding.Saying that, the biggest defeat the Jap land armies suffered was in Burma at the hands of British and Indian troops | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 16:25 - May 15 with 870 views | SullutaCreturned |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 11:13 - May 15 by controversial_jack |
Of course. it was a combined allied effort. The red army killed 4 times more Germans than the other allies put together. They liberated most of east Europe and got to Berlin. The western front was on a much smaller scale, but still contributed to the defeat of the Nazis.The Russians also took on the Japs in Manchuria and gave them a good hiding.Saying that, the biggest defeat the Jap land armies suffered was in Burma at the hands of British and Indian troops |
Twice as many, not 4 times. A lot of German tropps died in Russia because of the cold and food shortages too.
Also, the Russians didn't have to cross a sea and make amphibious landings going up against heavily fortified beaches.
What the Western front didn't have was lethally cold winters. | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 16:48 - May 15 with 865 views | controversial_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 16:25 - May 15 by SullutaCreturned |
Twice as many, not 4 times. A lot of German tropps died in Russia because of the cold and food shortages too.
Also, the Russians didn't have to cross a sea and make amphibious landings going up against heavily fortified beaches.
What the Western front didn't have was lethally cold winters. |
About 80% of German deaths occurred in the east,so that would be about 4 times more.
The Red army had to make many river crossings on their way to Berlin.
Not all of the campaign happened during the winter, quite the opposite | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 06:48 - May 16 with 817 views | felixstowe_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 11:13 - May 15 by controversial_jack |
Of course. it was a combined allied effort. The red army killed 4 times more Germans than the other allies put together. They liberated most of east Europe and got to Berlin. The western front was on a much smaller scale, but still contributed to the defeat of the Nazis.The Russians also took on the Japs in Manchuria and gave them a good hiding.Saying that, the biggest defeat the Jap land armies suffered was in Burma at the hands of British and Indian troops |
The Russians did not even declare war on Japan until after the atomic bomb was.dropped on Hiroshima and the day before it was dropped on Nagasaki. By that time the war was Japan was over. Russia had no effect on the outcome of the war with Japan. The Russian army attacked what was left of Japan army in China which had been starved of any supplied for many months. Japan surrendered less than a week after the atomic bombs were dropped on 15th August.
The obvious question is why did Starlin wait so long before attacking the Japanese troops . | |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 09:46 - May 16 with 788 views | controversial_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 06:48 - May 16 by felixstowe_jack |
The Russians did not even declare war on Japan until after the atomic bomb was.dropped on Hiroshima and the day before it was dropped on Nagasaki. By that time the war was Japan was over. Russia had no effect on the outcome of the war with Japan. The Russian army attacked what was left of Japan army in China which had been starved of any supplied for many months. Japan surrendered less than a week after the atomic bombs were dropped on 15th August.
The obvious question is why did Starlin wait so long before attacking the Japanese troops . |
Probably because the wanted to occupy Japan before the Americans did. Maybe in revenge for their earlier defeat in the Japan Russian war , who knows?
It certainly wasn't the small affair you seem to assume it was
To the Soviet military, it is known as the Manchurian Strategic Offensive Operation. Although it had no official name to the Japanese, it has become known in the West as Operation August Storm. It was the greatest defeat in Japanese military history, yet few outside the circles of Japanese and Soviet history are even aware that it occurred. It ensured the end of World War II as much as the dropping of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki did, yet it is often ignored in Western studies of the war.
More than one million Japanese soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians were killed or captured in a month’s bitter fighting in a far-off land that even today remains somewhat mysterious.
https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/the-soviet-invasion-of-manchuria-led-t | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 11:13 - May 16 with 782 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 06:48 - May 16 by felixstowe_jack |
The Russians did not even declare war on Japan until after the atomic bomb was.dropped on Hiroshima and the day before it was dropped on Nagasaki. By that time the war was Japan was over. Russia had no effect on the outcome of the war with Japan. The Russian army attacked what was left of Japan army in China which had been starved of any supplied for many months. Japan surrendered less than a week after the atomic bombs were dropped on 15th August.
The obvious question is why did Starlin wait so long before attacking the Japanese troops . |
The answer to that is his army was probably knackered by that point. They’d just spent years grinding westward to Berlin losing millions of men and all their equipment. The idea that they would immediately then turn eastward, travel the other way across the biggest continent on the planet to fight a kamikaze brainwashed army who didn’t seemingly give a sh1t about dying probably wouldn’t have been a good one for morale. | |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 18:39 - May 16 with 752 views | felixstowe_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 11:13 - May 16 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
The answer to that is his army was probably knackered by that point. They’d just spent years grinding westward to Berlin losing millions of men and all their equipment. The idea that they would immediately then turn eastward, travel the other way across the biggest continent on the planet to fight a kamikaze brainwashed army who didn’t seemingly give a sh1t about dying probably wouldn’t have been a good one for morale. |
The Russians did not want to fight on more than one front they left that to . Americans, British and commonwealth and Chinese army.
Guess they could claim they beat the Germans that way while the British fought in Africa, Italy, France as well as Burma.
The British also fought in the longest battle of WW11, the battle of the Atlantic. | |
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| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 19:26 - May 16 with 746 views | controversial_jack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 18:39 - May 16 by felixstowe_jack |
The Russians did not want to fight on more than one front they left that to . Americans, British and commonwealth and Chinese army.
Guess they could claim they beat the Germans that way while the British fought in Africa, Italy, France as well as Burma.
The British also fought in the longest battle of WW11, the battle of the Atlantic. |
The Russians fought on a front of 1000 miles against 3 million of the finest units the Germans had. Britain and the others had nothing like that to face
Churchill picked the easier targets , the softer underbelly of the Enemy.
There’s no comparison. The red army had it much tougher and they accomplished much more | | | |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 00:32 - May 17 with 728 views | DJack |
| USA, UK, France and EU snub Russian victory day. on 19:26 - May 16 by controversial_jack |
The Russians fought on a front of 1000 miles against 3 million of the finest units the Germans had. Britain and the others had nothing like that to face
Churchill picked the easier targets , the softer underbelly of the Enemy.
There’s no comparison. The red army had it much tougher and they accomplished much more |
And did that "Red Army" include a very sizable Ukrainian element. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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