| Erected in Bristol this morning 13:55 - Jul 15 with 21613 views | Drizzy |
This will upset a few.
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 08:20 - Jul 21 with 1464 views | Drizzy |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 22:25 - Jul 20 by felixstowe_jack |
Your are even arguing against your own arguments. It is about time the mayor of London sorted out crime in London.
Black people commit far more crimes given their population size especially London. That is why they are arrested more often and convicted.
Some more facts for you to ignore.
Black people are more likely to be found Innocent by juries so our just system gives them a fair trial.
More white people plead guilty than black people. Anyone who pleads guilty gets a lesser sentence in the UK.
it is about time you accepted facts and stopped insulting anyone who uses free speech to point this out.
The majority will not be silenced by the easily offended snowflake generation |
You don't understand proportionality, like the others, you're reverting to more or less than which is so crude it's laughable.
In the case of drug offences you provided evidence to say black people are 1.3x as likely to use drugs but 5x as likely to be arrested. That's a massive disparity, did you know that before you posted your stats? You haven't addressed it since.
I've never claimed jurors were racist.
The difference in guilty pleas ranges from about 10% to 30% depending on the type of crime. Not a significant factor for our hideously skewed prison population.
You're not the majority and in 20 years you'll be even more of a minority. Young people don't think like you, generally they're better educated and more aware of these issues. Your lot don't do evidence based policy, because you can't interpret the evidence. | |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 08:22 - Jul 21 with 1463 views | Drizzy |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 21:42 - Jul 20 by Highjack |
I didn’t do O-levels because I wasn’t born in the 19th century. |
I'd strongly suggest doing some kind of maths qualification, HJ. I think key stage 3 level might be appropriate, especially after that discussion about the drug containers. | |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 08:51 - Jul 21 with 1452 views | Highjack |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 08:22 - Jul 21 by Drizzy |
I'd strongly suggest doing some kind of maths qualification, HJ. I think key stage 3 level might be appropriate, especially after that discussion about the drug containers. |
O-levels were abolished when I was 2. I was quite advanced for my age but they wouldn’t let me sit them no matter how much I asked, even though I was having the sort of toddler tantrum that you lot seem to have every day. |  |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 08:59 - Jul 21 with 1446 views | Drizzy |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 08:51 - Jul 21 by Highjack |
O-levels were abolished when I was 2. I was quite advanced for my age but they wouldn’t let me sit them no matter how much I asked, even though I was having the sort of toddler tantrum that you lot seem to have every day. |
Is that it? Kin hell at least Felixstowe has a go.
See you on the new forum X | |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 09:15 - Jul 21 with 1440 views | Highjack |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 08:59 - Jul 21 by Drizzy |
Is that it? Kin hell at least Felixstowe has a go.
See you on the new forum X |
You won’t but cheerio anyway. | |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 09:52 - Jul 21 with 1425 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 08:59 - Jul 21 by Drizzy |
Is that it? Kin hell at least Felixstowe has a go.
See you on the new forum X |
Well past A level standards in mathematics. That is why i understand the statistics that are provided i have an open mind.
There really is a culture problem they need good parental guidance and a good male role model. Too many are brought up in "it not our fault" time to take responsibility for their actions no one has to do the crime use drugs, join gangs to carry knives. |  |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 10:43 - Jul 21 with 1416 views | Highjack |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 09:52 - Jul 21 by felixstowe_jack |
Well past A level standards in mathematics. That is why i understand the statistics that are provided i have an open mind.
There really is a culture problem they need good parental guidance and a good male role model. Too many are brought up in "it not our fault" time to take responsibility for their actions no one has to do the crime use drugs, join gangs to carry knives. |
It doesn’t help that the teachers are racist too for expelling more black kids and not teaching a different type of history.
Police, teachers, judges. All racist. And the list grows every day. | |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 11:19 - Jul 21 with 1411 views | Drizzy |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 09:52 - Jul 21 by felixstowe_jack |
Well past A level standards in mathematics. That is why i understand the statistics that are provided i have an open mind.
There really is a culture problem they need good parental guidance and a good male role model. Too many are brought up in "it not our fault" time to take responsibility for their actions no one has to do the crime use drugs, join gangs to carry knives. |
Ah, right. We're at the absent black father trope now.
You clearly don't understand the statistics because you still haven't acknowledged why black people take drugs at 1.3x the rate of everyone else but get arrested for possession at 5x the average.
Rather than waffling platitudes, I'd prefer some cost effective and successful strategies for tackling knife crime. I'd prefer we didn't throw around custodial sentences for first time non-violent offenders and add to our huge prison population that we need to spend billions to maintain. I'd prefer we legalise certain drugs and address poverty, the two economic drivers of crime. | |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 11:46 - Jul 21 with 1404 views | Drizzy |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 10:43 - Jul 21 by Highjack |
It doesn’t help that the teachers are racist too for expelling more black kids and not teaching a different type of history.
Police, teachers, judges. All racist. And the list grows every day. |
I never claimed teachers were racist. I think the vast majority of individual teachers aren't racist. Nationwide statistics show a pattern of discrimination which is why the problem is institutional rather than individual.
The list of racists isn't getting bigger, it's getting smaller thanks to tireless campaigning. The same kind of campaigning that won black people the right to freedom, citizenship and employment opportunities. It's just now we've on from tackling outright race hate to more insidious problems. The problems are supported by data, if you have the ability to interpret it.
Do think it's a shame that you're not migrating to the new site even though I disagree with you on lots of things. Maybe it's for the best. You've already wasted enough time defending an unravelling clusterf*ck and it's only going to get worse. | |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 12:01 - Jul 21 with 1396 views | Highjack |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 11:46 - Jul 21 by Drizzy |
I never claimed teachers were racist. I think the vast majority of individual teachers aren't racist. Nationwide statistics show a pattern of discrimination which is why the problem is institutional rather than individual.
The list of racists isn't getting bigger, it's getting smaller thanks to tireless campaigning. The same kind of campaigning that won black people the right to freedom, citizenship and employment opportunities. It's just now we've on from tackling outright race hate to more insidious problems. The problems are supported by data, if you have the ability to interpret it.
Do think it's a shame that you're not migrating to the new site even though I disagree with you on lots of things. Maybe it's for the best. You've already wasted enough time defending an unravelling clusterf*ck and it's only going to get worse. |
What is the difference between racism and discrimination based on skin colour? | |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 12:32 - Jul 21 with 1376 views | Drizzy |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 12:01 - Jul 21 by Highjack |
What is the difference between racism and discrimination based on skin colour? |
Nothing it's just about the strength of evidence when you make a claim of institutional racism.
Expulsions of black children at 3x the rate of others is a form of racism but it's not enough evidence to say schools are institutionally racist. There might be more evidence either way, I just haven't seen it.
Judges given custodial sentences at 1.6x the average is a form of racism but not enough evidence to say the judicial system is institutionally racist.
Arresting black people at hugely disproportionate rates across all crimes, particularly non violent crimes, along with stop and search, the Macpherson report, Cressida Dick and black people's ancedotal experiences with the police gives me the confidence to say the police are still institutionally racist. | |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 12:51 - Jul 21 with 1367 views | Glossolalia |
Tireless campaigning will do very little to change the minds of entrenched bigots. People are just far more tolerant and accepting than the leftwaffe will lead us to believe. So many have got over the pernicious notion that people should be judged based on characteristics they have no control over. Identity politics and tribalism are now what's the most dangerous for fair-minded people, in that it maintains the idea that skin tone is a real separation marker. It espouses the regressive and hypocritical idea that my view on matters such as these are not as important or valid, given my sex and skin tone.
Not the way forward.
[Post edited 21 Jul 2020 12:56]
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 13:19 - Jul 21 with 1354 views | Highjack |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 12:32 - Jul 21 by Drizzy |
Nothing it's just about the strength of evidence when you make a claim of institutional racism.
Expulsions of black children at 3x the rate of others is a form of racism but it's not enough evidence to say schools are institutionally racist. There might be more evidence either way, I just haven't seen it.
Judges given custodial sentences at 1.6x the average is a form of racism but not enough evidence to say the judicial system is institutionally racist.
Arresting black people at hugely disproportionate rates across all crimes, particularly non violent crimes, along with stop and search, the Macpherson report, Cressida Dick and black people's ancedotal experiences with the police gives me the confidence to say the police are still institutionally racist. |
“Expulsions of black children at 3x the rate of others is a form of racism”
Not if their behaviour warranted the school to expel them. Expulsion is always the last resort for any school. I can’t imagine any school would take the decision to expel a pupil lightly. | |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 13:56 - Jul 21 with 1341 views | Drizzy |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 13:19 - Jul 21 by Highjack |
“Expulsions of black children at 3x the rate of others is a form of racism”
Not if their behaviour warranted the school to expel them. Expulsion is always the last resort for any school. I can’t imagine any school would take the decision to expel a pupil lightly. |
You can add control variables to check the influence of things like the severity of the misbehaviour. It's been done and black kids were expelled at 2.7x the rate of others when the misbehaviour was the same.
In other words, do you think it's alright that a black kid is 2.7x as likely to be expelled for the same misbehaviour as another kid? Especially when you consider the link between expulsions and youth offending. | |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 13:59 - Jul 21 with 1337 views | Highjack |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 13:56 - Jul 21 by Drizzy |
You can add control variables to check the influence of things like the severity of the misbehaviour. It's been done and black kids were expelled at 2.7x the rate of others when the misbehaviour was the same.
In other words, do you think it's alright that a black kid is 2.7x as likely to be expelled for the same misbehaviour as another kid? Especially when you consider the link between expulsions and youth offending. |
Who did that test? | |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 14:20 - Jul 21 with 1334 views | Drizzy |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 12:51 - Jul 21 by Glossolalia |
Tireless campaigning will do very little to change the minds of entrenched bigots. People are just far more tolerant and accepting than the leftwaffe will lead us to believe. So many have got over the pernicious notion that people should be judged based on characteristics they have no control over. Identity politics and tribalism are now what's the most dangerous for fair-minded people, in that it maintains the idea that skin tone is a real separation marker. It espouses the regressive and hypocritical idea that my view on matters such as these are not as important or valid, given my sex and skin tone.
Not the way forward.
[Post edited 21 Jul 2020 12:56]
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Your opinion is not invalid, it's just your opinion based solely on your own extremely limited experience.
I've provided data that shows discrimination based on skin colour is rife within the police, it also occurs in classrooms and courtrooms. This is robust evidence based on a large number of cases throughout the country, not just the case of Glossolalia.
Racism is measurable and it's quantifiable that's why people talk about its existence. It's pretty easy to see when you don't contort yourself around the reality that it exists. | |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 14:35 - Jul 21 with 1328 views | Drizzy |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 13:59 - Jul 21 by Highjack |
Who did that test? |
Study at Bristol Uni in 2008 found the 2.7x figure. I've mentioned it specifically in a last discussion, but you dismissed it as "waffle".
The discrimination is evident in most policy research, the latest is the Timpson review in 2019. Black Carribbean and Traveller children are consistently excluded at much higher rates than anyone else. [Post edited 21 Jul 2020 14:35]
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 15:53 - Jul 21 with 1311 views | Garyjack |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 08:10 - Jul 21 by Drizzy |
F*ck me can you read, Gaz? I didn't call it racism I said it's a form of discrimination but not clear cut racism like you see in arrest rates (5x average) and stop and search (13x average).
Are you aware of the difference of multiplying something by 1.6 compared to 5?
It's only difficult to understand if you don't understand proportionality, which is usually the case with your types. "Forget your stats etc"  That's what the whole argument is based on. It's not just more than and less than you aching simpleton. |
Yes i can read, do you understand what you are typing is what you should be asking yourself. Discriminating against someone because of the colour of their skin = Racism.
Just because they do not match up with the other 'stats' you've put up doesn't make it any less so. That's why i said 'forget your stats' and try to concentrate more on what you are actually saying. Maybe then you wouldn't have to sit in front of your device purple faced with steam coming out of your years screaming "Why does no one understand me!"   |  | | |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 16:24 - Jul 21 with 1295 views | Glossolalia |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 14:20 - Jul 21 by Drizzy |
Your opinion is not invalid, it's just your opinion based solely on your own extremely limited experience.
I've provided data that shows discrimination based on skin colour is rife within the police, it also occurs in classrooms and courtrooms. This is robust evidence based on a large number of cases throughout the country, not just the case of Glossolalia.
Racism is measurable and it's quantifiable that's why people talk about its existence. It's pretty easy to see when you don't contort yourself around the reality that it exists. |
Everyone's opinions are formed by what they learn and what they experience. By that token, everyone has an 'extremely limited' experience of the world. It is intrinsically subjective. On that then, there should be no scope for a hierarchical system of opinionated validity. But there is. Don't tell me my opinion on American police brutality, for example, would been deemed equally valid as a black person's, given the current narrative. Even if myself and my black counterpart had a very similar life experience, and even if I was well-informed, my skin tone would unfairly deem me unsuited to comment by some. Recognise this reality.
That is my point. I'm not arguing about statistics as present. Identity-driven outlooks threaten the chance of any one person to be taken just as seriously as anyone else, no matter the subject or race. I apply this to left and right extremism. But at present, it is the far left who are more guilty of this: people are far less likely to be listened to based off of their merits, and are more likely to be judged and belittled by things they don't control.
Who here is contorting the reality that racism exists? I certainly am not. And to portray racism, (an internal, often surreptitious trait) as somehow quantifiable to any degree of accuracy is ridiculous. If anyone is guilty of contorting the prevalence of racism, it's those trying to quantify it! Therein lie serious problems of over and maybe under-emphasis. | | | |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 18:07 - Jul 21 with 1256 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 11:19 - Jul 21 by Drizzy |
Ah, right. We're at the absent black father trope now.
You clearly don't understand the statistics because you still haven't acknowledged why black people take drugs at 1.3x the rate of everyone else but get arrested for possession at 5x the average.
Rather than waffling platitudes, I'd prefer some cost effective and successful strategies for tackling knife crime. I'd prefer we didn't throw around custodial sentences for first time non-violent offenders and add to our huge prison population that we need to spend billions to maintain. I'd prefer we legalise certain drugs and address poverty, the two economic drivers of crime. |
You still don't see the problem you commit crimes you get caught you get convicted. | |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 18:10 - Jul 21 with 1255 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 12:32 - Jul 21 by Drizzy |
Nothing it's just about the strength of evidence when you make a claim of institutional racism.
Expulsions of black children at 3x the rate of others is a form of racism but it's not enough evidence to say schools are institutionally racist. There might be more evidence either way, I just haven't seen it.
Judges given custodial sentences at 1.6x the average is a form of racism but not enough evidence to say the judicial system is institutionally racist.
Arresting black people at hugely disproportionate rates across all crimes, particularly non violent crimes, along with stop and search, the Macpherson report, Cressida Dick and black people's ancedotal experiences with the police gives me the confidence to say the police are still institutionally racist. |
It is not racist to arrest criminals. It is racist to ignore crimes committed by people who are not white as in rochdale and rotherham.
The police should do their job. | |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 14:10 - Jul 24 with 1159 views | Catullus |
I'll start with this,
https://www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/publications/cjm/article/truth-and-lies-about
but I'll move onto Drizzy's claim that young people are better educated. It's a dubious claim Drizzy, many employers moan about young people being poor at maths and spelling. My wife works with some young people who can't do simple maths without a calculator. My sister is degree educated, her son left school still struggling to write his own name. I have found that they are not teaching critical thinking, instead teaching young people what to think.
What annoyed me about this statue wasn't that a black woman was temporarily put there but that she was doing a black power salute. It only fuels resentment, causes more arguments and divisions. We won't stop any discrimination by causing more divisions but only by coming together. The black power salute probably had the committed racists foaming at the mouth, eager to get out and tear the statue down if the council didn't remove it.
Education is the key but we also have to stop so called positive discrimination. People should be given jobs on merit. Shoehorning people into jobs based on their ethnicity means we can end up with poor employees and we don't want more poor police or teachers now, do we?
I don't suppose we will cure any of these ills until we all have equal opportunities but as a working class white parent to a 12 year old boy, I know he won't get the equality of opportunity that a white boy from a well off family will get and that boy won't get as good treatment as a boy from a titled family or a rich and famous family.
Discrimination is everywhere, nepotism is everywhere, otherwise how do you explain Bojo and Steven Kinnock? | |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 09:10 - Jul 25 with 1111 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 14:35 - Jul 21 by Drizzy |
Study at Bristol Uni in 2008 found the 2.7x figure. I've mentioned it specifically in a last discussion, but you dismissed it as "waffle".
The discrimination is evident in most policy research, the latest is the Timpson review in 2019. Black Carribbean and Traveller children are consistently excluded at much higher rates than anyone else. [Post edited 21 Jul 2020 14:35]
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Three traveller children just go away with murder of a policeman trying to arrest them while stealing a quad bike. Jury only convicted them of manslaughter. The jury was also threatened by the traveller community. | |
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| Erected in Bristol this morning on 20:39 - Jul 25 with 1078 views | Catullus |
| Erected in Bristol this morning on 09:10 - Jul 25 by felixstowe_jack |
Three traveller children just go away with murder of a policeman trying to arrest them while stealing a quad bike. Jury only convicted them of manslaughter. The jury was also threatened by the traveller community. |
Where we used to live the traveller children down the road never went to school and nothing was ever done.
Poor treatment indeed. | |
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