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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 10:00 - Dec 14 by Rochdale_ger
I think Jess Phillips would get worse numbers then Jeremy corbyn. All she is about is identity politics. In an age where most people don’t discriminate or care what race/sexuality/gender/ religion you are she is the ultimate turn off. It’s one of the reasons Labour lost, the constant bleating on about how people from ethnic minorities have it worse then most folk etc. Labour have a white people problem more specifically a white working class people problem.
As bad as homelessness is in our city centres most people don’t see that. When I used to work for a company in Rochdale I used to drop my work mate off on kirkolt and in the summer months all of his neighbours would be sat out in their front gardens drinking cans of skol. Absolutely none of them worked yet the tax on his labour is basically funding these people’s lifestyles. It’s not hard to see where the perception that most people that don’t work are scroungers come from. People are literally standing outside that job centre in Rochdale drinking cans of white lightning before they go in and sign on.
That’s fine but why, after nine years of Conservative rule, do you not associate the problem with the Conservatives? This is a genuine question. Why is this deemed to be a Labour problem?
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 10:45 - Dec 14 by BigDaveMyCock
That’s fine but why, after nine years of Conservative rule, do you not associate the problem with the Conservatives? This is a genuine question. Why is this deemed to be a Labour problem?
[Post edited 14 Dec 2019 10:51]
Goddamnit. Labour caused the global banking crash 12 years ago and wrote a joke about the country being skint when leaving office 10 years ago. Of course it’s labours fault FFS.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 11:00 - Dec 14 with 1961 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 10:37 - Dec 14 by BigDaveMyCock
Labour poll far better in metropolitan areas and amongst graduates. I live in Manchester Central and they absolutely pIssed it. The Tories won, and UKIP/Brexit Party did far better, in areas more associated with flat caps and whippets. In fact it was these very people Jeremy Corbyn was said to have forgotten about.
I may be wrong but I think TodDale is saying Labour's assumption that the northern working class are still class-loyal, socially-liberal, big-state supporting is as wrong & patronising as assuming they all wear flat caps & run whippets? Labour 'forgot' about them by opposing Leave.
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 11:00 - Dec 14 by tony_roch975
I may be wrong but I think TodDale is saying Labour's assumption that the northern working class are still class-loyal, socially-liberal, big-state supporting is as wrong & patronising as assuming they all wear flat caps & run whippets? Labour 'forgot' about them by opposing Leave.
Apologies, what I was trying to say was that you can’t have it both ways. You can’t bemoan Labour for being too socially liberal and at the same time criticise them for leaving behind the white working classes in northern towns. That indicates the white working classes in northern towns should indeed be treated differently but that’s not what, in my opinion, Tod seems to be saying. He’s saying Labour is and it shouldn’t do that. But if it doesn’t it is often accused of leaving them behind? Social liberalism is by definition universal and shouldn’t matter whether you live in Wimbledon or Workington. It strikes me that the white working classes referred to do indeed want to be treated differently.
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 11:36 - Dec 14 by BigDaveMyCock
Apologies, what I was trying to say was that you can’t have it both ways. You can’t bemoan Labour for being too socially liberal and at the same time criticise them for leaving behind the white working classes in northern towns. That indicates the white working classes in northern towns should indeed be treated differently but that’s not what, in my opinion, Tod seems to be saying. He’s saying Labour is and it shouldn’t do that. But if it doesn’t it is often accused of leaving them behind? Social liberalism is by definition universal and shouldn’t matter whether you live in Wimbledon or Workington. It strikes me that the white working classes referred to do indeed want to be treated differently.
[Post edited 14 Dec 2019 11:44]
and that's the crunch for the left under FPTP - a progressive alliance (the 52% who voted on Thursday against the right) with mix & match broadly liberal policies but which will largely ignore the socially conservative white working class or radical economic policies with less liberal social policies which will animate that white working class (the Rochdale_ger pespective?).
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 11:48 - Dec 14 by tony_roch975
and that's the crunch for the left under FPTP - a progressive alliance (the 52% who voted on Thursday against the right) with mix & match broadly liberal policies but which will largely ignore the socially conservative white working class or radical economic policies with less liberal social policies which will animate that white working class (the Rochdale_ger pespective?).
Its the use of words like "progressive" - when in fact the policies are anything but - that's such a turn off to many former Labour voters who are being casually lumped together as "white working class"
These are the politics of old (of yesteryear) and if voters in former mining constituencies can move on from those same stale arguments its time to call a halt. The only thing that matters is to improve people's lives, and for those voters to see voting Tory as the (current) answer is an overwhelming indictment of the leftward lurch in Labour and those who still use the language of class war
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 11:36 - Dec 14 by BigDaveMyCock
Apologies, what I was trying to say was that you can’t have it both ways. You can’t bemoan Labour for being too socially liberal and at the same time criticise them for leaving behind the white working classes in northern towns. That indicates the white working classes in northern towns should indeed be treated differently but that’s not what, in my opinion, Tod seems to be saying. He’s saying Labour is and it shouldn’t do that. But if it doesn’t it is often accused of leaving them behind? Social liberalism is by definition universal and shouldn’t matter whether you live in Wimbledon or Workington. It strikes me that the white working classes referred to do indeed want to be treated differently.
[Post edited 14 Dec 2019 11:44]
Naz shah the mp for Bradford joked that white girls raped and groomed by Asian grooming gangs should just shut up for the sake of diversity. Groups like Britain first and the edl tweeting and copying that quote over Facebook are going to send white working class people into the hands of the Conservative party. And rightly so. Labour fooked this election up for themselves with stuff like that and having the most stupid stance ever on Brexit also throw in the identity politics, waving Palestine flags at party conference (while being accused of antisemitism) and a bit of Dianne abbot and there is your answer. The whetherspooners pissed on your chips and it was Labours fault.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 12:18 - Dec 14 with 1888 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 11:59 - Dec 14 by D_Alien
Its the use of words like "progressive" - when in fact the policies are anything but - that's such a turn off to many former Labour voters who are being casually lumped together as "white working class"
These are the politics of old (of yesteryear) and if voters in former mining constituencies can move on from those same stale arguments its time to call a halt. The only thing that matters is to improve people's lives, and for those voters to see voting Tory as the (current) answer is an overwhelming indictment of the leftward lurch in Labour and those who still use the language of class war
[Post edited 14 Dec 2019 12:00]
'Progressive' is a precise term which applies to all UK political parties except the DUP, Tories (except when Boris pretends) , Brexit/UKIP - it doesn't equal 'best' or 'new'. You're right, not all white working class folk are socially conservative but enough are as Rochdale_ger argues.
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 12:18 - Dec 14 by tony_roch975
'Progressive' is a precise term which applies to all UK political parties except the DUP, Tories (except when Boris pretends) , Brexit/UKIP - it doesn't equal 'best' or 'new'. You're right, not all white working class folk are socially conservative but enough are as Rochdale_ger argues.
[Post edited 14 Dec 2019 12:19]
And it has about the same relevance to the issues which matter to people in 2020 as "progressive" music did by the mid-1970s, which is where it belongs
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 12:18 - Dec 14 by tony_roch975
'Progressive' is a precise term which applies to all UK political parties except the DUP, Tories (except when Boris pretends) , Brexit/UKIP - it doesn't equal 'best' or 'new'. You're right, not all white working class folk are socially conservative but enough are as Rochdale_ger argues.
[Post edited 14 Dec 2019 12:19]
I’ve argued the opposite. I’ve said that I think most people have moved beyond identity politics and don’t care about your race/religion/sexuality etc. But the Left who are stuck in the past as d_alien points out and keep harping on about this country as though it’s the fourth reich and bang the class war and identity politics drum. The conservatives and UKIP aren’t the equivalent of the BNP or the NF. Far right politics are dead in this country. Gone. Finished and done.
[Post edited 14 Dec 2019 12:27]
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 12:32 - Dec 14 with 1864 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 12:25 - Dec 14 by Rochdale_ger
I’ve argued the opposite. I’ve said that I think most people have moved beyond identity politics and don’t care about your race/religion/sexuality etc. But the Left who are stuck in the past as d_alien points out and keep harping on about this country as though it’s the fourth reich and bang the class war and identity politics drum. The conservatives and UKIP aren’t the equivalent of the BNP or the NF. Far right politics are dead in this country. Gone. Finished and done.
[Post edited 14 Dec 2019 12:27]
Sorry, I thought you were arguing that Labour's decision to support 'loony lefty' identity politics etc was what lost them the election because white working class people are turned off by such policies ? The dilemma for the 'left' ( the 52%) is they still believe in 'identity politics' but under FPTP they lose!
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 06:55 - Dec 14 by BartRowou
I think all these Northerners voting Conservative have handed Johnson a poisoned chalice. Having got rid of the enemy within, he'd have been far happier with a sizeable majority of about 35-40. Apparently, he's in the North today with his diluted new friends. He's not going to find it easy keeping them happy with Scotland, N Ireland and most of Europe on his back.
Hopefully, when it all starts to unravel in Workington and the like, the disaffection will snowball across the country and in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, will step forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.
The quotation from one of Churchill's WW2 speeches, prompts the thought that he'd probably not have got into the Commons if he'd had to have a local connection with a constituency. Before WW1 he represented Oldham and Dundee - neither places he had links with.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 19:31 - Dec 14 with 1702 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 10:57 - Dec 14 by Ancoats_Blue
Goddamnit. Labour caused the global banking crash 12 years ago and wrote a joke about the country being skint when leaving office 10 years ago. Of course it’s labours fault FFS.
Labour caused the global banking crash ! Are you for real ? Did the bankers in the the UK and the USA have no part in it in your world then ?
Labour under Brown and Darling acted with great skill and energy in the aftermath so when you went to the hole in the wall the next day money came out of it. It was touch and go wether the whole system fell down.
[Post edited 14 Dec 2019 19:35]
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 19:59 - Dec 14 with 1680 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 19:31 - Dec 14 by mingthemerciless
Labour caused the global banking crash ! Are you for real ? Did the bankers in the the UK and the USA have no part in it in your world then ?
Labour under Brown and Darling acted with great skill and energy in the aftermath so when you went to the hole in the wall the next day money came out of it. It was touch and go wether the whole system fell down.
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