| To loan or to buy 18:33 - Jun 18 with 8592 views | Swanseaman |
With loaning a player, while they could be of great help, and improve our chances of a promotion push. At the end of the season, all the work put in improving and developing them is for another club .
I would prefer to buy players who have potential and to develop them for us, so all the work put in is for us. This is also the better business, as the initial investment can increase quite a lot depending on how much they improve.
I think even if we get to the premiership again, it's better to find youngsters with potential that we can develop rather than the route jenkins went on of buying older experienced top players who were too expensive.
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| To loan or to buy on 12:03 - Jun 19 with 1580 views | jasper_T |
Think Sunderland are favourites for Shankland after they missed out on promotion. More his level. |  | | |
| To loan or to buy on 12:12 - Jun 19 with 1559 views | jackrmee |
| To loan or to buy on 12:01 - Jun 19 by jasper_T |
We shouldn't be buying another young, promising centreback when we have Cooper, Lewis and Cabango at the club behind Harries and Rodon. Chock full of prospects in that position.
Cameron Evans (brother of Jack) isn't awful either. |
OK, happy days. But do you think any of them are actually ready to step up if MVH or Joe were to get injured?
I wasn't talking about buying back up. I meant someone to directly challenge for a place, which is why I mentioned that Joe was not pissed of when he lost his place last season. If it were to happen again, fairly, I think he would accept that.
You obviously know much more than me in terms of the u23s, but I haven't heard many cries for any of them to start in the first team really.
This is why I thought we need to buy in this position, as opposed to loan. We need at least 3 CBs on our books who are actually good enough to play week in week out. |  |
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| To loan or to buy on 12:16 - Jun 19 with 1551 views | jackrmee |
| To loan or to buy on 12:03 - Jun 19 by jasper_T |
Think Sunderland are favourites for Shankland after they missed out on promotion. More his level. |
I don't think we really know his level.
OK, it's a big jump from Championship Scotland to Championship EFL, but others have done it. He obviously knows where the goal is and is still young. We should definitely be interested in the guy as he is FREE.
He wouldn't be expecting to walk straight into the team ahead of a 20 goal forward and an experienced player like Wayne, but could actually score a few off the bench early and end up our main man upfront, with Oli playing deeper.
I think Shankland would be a win win for us, as it's such low risk. Even if it didn't really work out, he would be pushing others and challenging for places. I think that's more important than getting a loanee in this position who would just put Oli or Wayne onto the bench. | |
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| To loan or to buy on 13:44 - Jun 19 with 1480 views | jasper_T |
| To loan or to buy on 12:12 - Jun 19 by jackrmee |
OK, happy days. But do you think any of them are actually ready to step up if MVH or Joe were to get injured?
I wasn't talking about buying back up. I meant someone to directly challenge for a place, which is why I mentioned that Joe was not pissed of when he lost his place last season. If it were to happen again, fairly, I think he would accept that.
You obviously know much more than me in terms of the u23s, but I haven't heard many cries for any of them to start in the first team really.
This is why I thought we need to buy in this position, as opposed to loan. We need at least 3 CBs on our books who are actually good enough to play week in week out. |
If Cooper feels we're short in the position and wants to bring in a CB it should be for the here and now. There's only so many u23s fixtures to go around, we've got 5 reserve centre halves on professional contracts aged 18-22, and only one looks at all comfortable in other positions. A single season loan of a more proven player would be better than another long term commitment imo. There are other areas in more need of strengthening, and the budget is clearly going to be limited.
Might see Cabango go out on loan again, hopefully to the Football League this time. Seems to have a bit of buzz around him. Or at least a proactive agent. Clear the decks a bit.
Big Joe needs regular games and it should be his shirt to lose going into the season. I'd be happy to see Cian or one of the others get some minutes, as I was happy with the idea of DJ and Byers getting time last summer. That's what the academy is for, and teams up and down the division are finding their inexperienced players are capable of making immediate impacts when given an opportunity. | | | |
| To loan or to buy on 13:45 - Jun 19 with 1477 views | jasper_T |
| To loan or to buy on 12:16 - Jun 19 by jackrmee |
I don't think we really know his level.
OK, it's a big jump from Championship Scotland to Championship EFL, but others have done it. He obviously knows where the goal is and is still young. We should definitely be interested in the guy as he is FREE.
He wouldn't be expecting to walk straight into the team ahead of a 20 goal forward and an experienced player like Wayne, but could actually score a few off the bench early and end up our main man upfront, with Oli playing deeper.
I think Shankland would be a win win for us, as it's such low risk. Even if it didn't really work out, he would be pushing others and challenging for places. I think that's more important than getting a loanee in this position who would just put Oli or Wayne onto the bench. |
He was here on trial two years ago and we said no, it's not like people at the club don't have a decent idea of his quality. | | | |
| To loan or to buy on 14:55 - Jun 19 with 1417 views | Badlands |
The problem we've had recently is loans going wrong for whatever reason; wrong type of player, injury, attitude, ability and very importantly cost and threats pressure from the lending club to play a loanee irrespective of their actual value to us on the field.
Add to that the loan fee, agents fee, wages and no end transfer value at the end and we see why Potter preferred to gamble on George Byers rather than bring in another player on loan.
While we will bring in players on loan I think we should really make sure the player wants the move.
And,
they really are up to the standard required. |  |
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| To loan or to buy on 15:23 - Jun 19 with 1404 views | vetchonian |
| To loan or to buy on 14:55 - Jun 19 by Badlands |
The problem we've had recently is loans going wrong for whatever reason; wrong type of player, injury, attitude, ability and very importantly cost and threats pressure from the lending club to play a loanee irrespective of their actual value to us on the field.
Add to that the loan fee, agents fee, wages and no end transfer value at the end and we see why Potter preferred to gamble on George Byers rather than bring in another player on loan.
While we will bring in players on loan I think we should really make sure the player wants the move.
And,
they really are up to the standard required. |
I think that applies to the majority of our first team recruitment especially so called Marque players!!!!
IT makes me cringe the money your mate wasted | |
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| To loan or to buy on 15:43 - Jun 19 with 1381 views | jack247 |
| To loan or to buy on 14:55 - Jun 19 by Badlands |
The problem we've had recently is loans going wrong for whatever reason; wrong type of player, injury, attitude, ability and very importantly cost and threats pressure from the lending club to play a loanee irrespective of their actual value to us on the field.
Add to that the loan fee, agents fee, wages and no end transfer value at the end and we see why Potter preferred to gamble on George Byers rather than bring in another player on loan.
While we will bring in players on loan I think we should really make sure the player wants the move.
And,
they really are up to the standard required. |
That’s not a loan problem, that’s just a recruitment problem.
Yes, Tammy and Sanches were loans. Borja, Bony, the Ayews, Mesa and Clucas weren’t. They caused (in some cases still are) causing us far bigger problems than the loanees, who we could at least send back. | | | |
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| To loan or to buy on 16:17 - Jun 19 with 1360 views | Luther27 |
At the end of the day we’ll go for the cheapest option whatever that turns out to be. | |
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| To loan or to buy on 16:24 - Jun 19 with 1352 views | karnataka |
| To loan or to buy on 13:45 - Jun 19 by jasper_T |
He was here on trial two years ago and we said no, it's not like people at the club don't have a decent idea of his quality. |
Tbf, 2 years ago, he hadn't made quite the impact he has since - 50 goals in 61 appearances for Ayr is an impressive strike rate at any level. From what I've seen of him which tbf isn't a huge amount, he looks like a striker who relies almost exclusively on good service and does almost all his work in the box rather than creating goals for himself (save for a couple of superb opportunist strikes from outside the box for St Mirren a couple of years ago). A right place, right time sort of striker rather like Teemu Pukki was for Norwich last season so who knows, if we can create a high number of decent chances per game, someone with those sort of instincts may be able to capitalise with 15-20 tap ins. Lineker, for example, made a very lucrative career out of doing excactly that with a very high conversion rate and probably scored 99% of his goals in the 6 yard box. If Shankland is available on a free, it's such a low risk, why not? |  | | |
| To loan or to buy on 16:51 - Jun 19 with 1323 views | jasper_T |
| To loan or to buy on 16:24 - Jun 19 by karnataka |
Tbf, 2 years ago, he hadn't made quite the impact he has since - 50 goals in 61 appearances for Ayr is an impressive strike rate at any level. From what I've seen of him which tbf isn't a huge amount, he looks like a striker who relies almost exclusively on good service and does almost all his work in the box rather than creating goals for himself (save for a couple of superb opportunist strikes from outside the box for St Mirren a couple of years ago). A right place, right time sort of striker rather like Teemu Pukki was for Norwich last season so who knows, if we can create a high number of decent chances per game, someone with those sort of instincts may be able to capitalise with 15-20 tap ins. Lineker, for example, made a very lucrative career out of doing excactly that with a very high conversion rate and probably scored 99% of his goals in the 6 yard box. If Shankland is available on a free, it's such a low risk, why not? |
Because his agent has been shipping him about and other clubs are as interested as we've supposedly been. He's not run his contract at Ayr down to go cheap.
36 year old Stephen Dobbie is a 20 goal a season striker at that level. It's an astonishingly poor league. | | | |
| To loan or to buy on 17:46 - Jun 19 with 1288 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| To loan or to buy on 16:51 - Jun 19 by jasper_T |
Because his agent has been shipping him about and other clubs are as interested as we've supposedly been. He's not run his contract at Ayr down to go cheap.
36 year old Stephen Dobbie is a 20 goal a season striker at that level. It's an astonishingly poor league. |
Again, only going by videos and reviews of others, but he seems like a poor mans Borja Baston to me. Can’t see how he would fit into how we play. |  | | |
| To loan or to buy on 17:54 - Jun 19 with 1276 views | TNT |
I've got Walter Boyd scoring a wonder goal, on VHS, if anyone wants to loan / buy him based on that.  | |
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| To loan or to buy on 18:07 - Jun 19 with 1264 views | jasper_T |
Should get this Belgium u21 keeper. Relegated from the Jupiler Pro with his club but he's class.
Lend them Nordfeldt. About his level. | | | |
| To loan or to buy on 18:39 - Jun 19 with 1235 views | jackrmee |
| To loan or to buy on 13:45 - Jun 19 by jasper_T |
He was here on trial two years ago and we said no, it's not like people at the club don't have a decent idea of his quality. |
We said no when we were in the prem, but were looking at him again last year. He's got more experience now and smashed in a fukload of goals too. Well worth a punt for free IMO. | |
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| To loan or to buy on 18:42 - Jun 19 with 1235 views | jackrmee |
| To loan or to buy on 16:24 - Jun 19 by karnataka |
Tbf, 2 years ago, he hadn't made quite the impact he has since - 50 goals in 61 appearances for Ayr is an impressive strike rate at any level. From what I've seen of him which tbf isn't a huge amount, he looks like a striker who relies almost exclusively on good service and does almost all his work in the box rather than creating goals for himself (save for a couple of superb opportunist strikes from outside the box for St Mirren a couple of years ago). A right place, right time sort of striker rather like Teemu Pukki was for Norwich last season so who knows, if we can create a high number of decent chances per game, someone with those sort of instincts may be able to capitalise with 15-20 tap ins. Lineker, for example, made a very lucrative career out of doing excactly that with a very high conversion rate and probably scored 99% of his goals in the 6 yard box. If Shankland is available on a free, it's such a low risk, why not? |
Such a different mould to Wayne and Oli too. COuld be a good fit.
Maybe there are matches where Cooper will be aware that we are likely to make plenty of chances in the area, which would benefit a player like Shankland by the sounds of it, as opposed to the other 2. | |
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| To loan or to buy on 19:33 - Jun 19 with 1198 views | jack247 |
| To loan or to buy on 16:24 - Jun 19 by karnataka |
Tbf, 2 years ago, he hadn't made quite the impact he has since - 50 goals in 61 appearances for Ayr is an impressive strike rate at any level. From what I've seen of him which tbf isn't a huge amount, he looks like a striker who relies almost exclusively on good service and does almost all his work in the box rather than creating goals for himself (save for a couple of superb opportunist strikes from outside the box for St Mirren a couple of years ago). A right place, right time sort of striker rather like Teemu Pukki was for Norwich last season so who knows, if we can create a high number of decent chances per game, someone with those sort of instincts may be able to capitalise with 15-20 tap ins. Lineker, for example, made a very lucrative career out of doing excactly that with a very high conversion rate and probably scored 99% of his goals in the 6 yard box. If Shankland is available on a free, it's such a low risk, why not? |
If we are going to play the kind of football Cooper says we are, I can’t see where a goal poacher fits in. Unless it’s as an impact sub.
I’d imagine whoever plays up front is going to have to get involved in the build up, either by holding the ball up for players to run through, or more likely, be part of a fluid front three, ie be able to drift out wide and interchange with at least one of the wingers.
I don’t know if Shankland could do that or not, but going by your description sounds more of a finisher who comes alive in the box. | | | |
| To loan or to buy on 20:19 - Jun 19 with 1160 views | Nortbankboy |
| To loan or to buy on 02:48 - Jun 19 by Brynmill_Jack |
And due to the money wasted on lazy transfers like Andre Ayew , Wilf and Baston that very academy’s future could be in doubt. You and “Huwther “ can't have it both ways. |
Ayew was not a good signing,but his brother Jordan is still the best forward on our books.
Baston at the time everyone thought he was a great signing,scoring goals for fun.
But he could not adapt to the British game.
As far as boney is concerned.We bought him for £12 mill sold him for £28 mill and bought again for £12.he scored a lot of goals for us.But had had bad luck with a serious injury.
You can never get it right all the time,
But over the last 15 yrs we have made more good signings than bad. | | | |
| To loan or to buy on 20:23 - Jun 19 with 1147 views | jasper_T |
| To loan or to buy on 20:19 - Jun 19 by Nortbankboy |
Ayew was not a good signing,but his brother Jordan is still the best forward on our books.
Baston at the time everyone thought he was a great signing,scoring goals for fun.
But he could not adapt to the British game.
As far as boney is concerned.We bought him for £12 mill sold him for £28 mill and bought again for £12.he scored a lot of goals for us.But had had bad luck with a serious injury.
You can never get it right all the time,
But over the last 15 yrs we have made more good signings than bad. |
Bony had multiple serious injuries and malaria before we signed him back. | | | |
| To loan or to buy on 20:26 - Jun 19 with 1133 views | jack247 |
| To loan or to buy on 20:19 - Jun 19 by Nortbankboy |
Ayew was not a good signing,but his brother Jordan is still the best forward on our books.
Baston at the time everyone thought he was a great signing,scoring goals for fun.
But he could not adapt to the British game.
As far as boney is concerned.We bought him for £12 mill sold him for £28 mill and bought again for £12.he scored a lot of goals for us.But had had bad luck with a serious injury.
You can never get it right all the time,
But over the last 15 yrs we have made more good signings than bad. |
Your last sentence is correct. Unfortunately, over the last 3, we’ve made far more bad than good. That’s what relegated us and put us up shit creek.
Baston wasn’t scouted properly. You can’t play as a lone striker if you’ve got no strength or bottle. It doesn’t matter how good Jordan Ayew is, he’s got no desire to be here and we can’t afford his wages. | | | |
| To loan or to buy on 20:29 - Jun 19 with 1128 views | Nortbankboy |
| To loan or to buy on 20:23 - Jun 19 by jasper_T |
Bony had multiple serious injuries and malaria before we signed him back. |
I wonder if Cooper will use the ages brothers if we can't move then on?
If that is the case,the is already looking stronger | | | |
| To loan or to buy on 20:33 - Jun 19 with 1119 views | jasper_T |
| To loan or to buy on 20:29 - Jun 19 by Nortbankboy |
I wonder if Cooper will use the ages brothers if we can't move then on?
If that is the case,the is already looking stronger |
We can't afford their appearance fees. Got help us if we have to pay out goal bonuses.
They'll both be gone for whatever % of their basic wage we can recover, on loan if no permanent sale can be found (who is going to touch Andre near his £80k a week?). Birch has said as much, dealing with the crippling legacy contracts is a priority for him. | | | |
| To loan or to buy on 20:39 - Jun 19 with 1112 views | dobjack2 |
| To loan or to buy on 20:19 - Jun 19 by Nortbankboy |
Ayew was not a good signing,but his brother Jordan is still the best forward on our books.
Baston at the time everyone thought he was a great signing,scoring goals for fun.
But he could not adapt to the British game.
As far as boney is concerned.We bought him for £12 mill sold him for £28 mill and bought again for £12.he scored a lot of goals for us.But had had bad luck with a serious injury.
You can never get it right all the time,
But over the last 15 yrs we have made more good signings than bad. |
The problem is that the bad signings were really bad and have crippled us financially
A ayew was probably the worst signing we have ever made. 3 1/2 year contract in our position on those wages was insane.
Jordan wants to be here as much as he wanted to be at Villa after they were relegated
Baston wasn’t scouted properly so a complete waste of money
Bony wasn’t fit a wtf signing.
Our recruitment got progressively worse with Andre ayew being a millstone that could feck us up for another couple of seasons. | | | |
| To loan or to buy on 20:42 - Jun 19 with 1109 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| To loan or to buy on 20:33 - Jun 19 by jasper_T |
We can't afford their appearance fees. Got help us if we have to pay out goal bonuses.
They'll both be gone for whatever % of their basic wage we can recover, on loan if no permanent sale can be found (who is going to touch Andre near his £80k a week?). Birch has said as much, dealing with the crippling legacy contracts is a priority for him. |
I thought you said the appearance fees were a myth last year? Lol | | | |
| To loan or to buy on 20:51 - Jun 19 with 1094 views | jasper_T |
| To loan or to buy on 20:42 - Jun 19 by 34dfgdf54 |
I thought you said the appearance fees were a myth last year? Lol |
You thought wrong. Why would I say that? And when?
Lol | | | |
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