| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? 08:33 - May 17 with 6031 views | trampie |
Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ?
I wonder if some party leaders will vote 'remain' but wont mind 'leave' winning, last polls I saw had N.I, Scotland and Wales 'remain' but England 'leave', if that happened and the weight of numbers in England was just enough to drag the UK out of Europe then what ?
In the above scenario the R.O.I would be in Europe and in the Euro with the North wanting to be in Europe with nearly half the population 'nationalists', some say if Scotland get dragged out of Europe against their will there will be a second independence referendum and Wales being one area that apparently benefits from EU money might see some Welsh unhappy to 'leave'.
Many Little Englanders will want to be out, but that could lead to a breaking up of the UK down the line and little Englanders tend to be unionists and want the UK to stay together. [Post edited 17 May 2016 8:36]
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 14:53 - May 17 with 1463 views | swanjackal |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 12:22 - May 17 by Highjack |
We could get the Russians to join too and call it Eurasia. |
Or, could ask the Australians to join in and call it the Eurovision Union. |  |
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Hypocritically hypocritical ! |
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 15:00 - May 17 with 1455 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 14:15 - May 17 by blueytheblue |
The Tories won't be in turmoil.
I suspect Cameron is in the "leave" camp to be honest. If he came out lobbying to leave and the vote was stay, then he'd be slaughtered in European talks. Now, he can say he tried to get change, tried to stay using hyperbole... knowing he'll be standing down anyway.
Corbyn on the other hand is in a whole heap of trouble over it. Voted against everything EU, realpolitik demanded he backed the remain camp despite it not being his real view... |
That logic is f*cking mental. Cameron's leading a party which is split in two. He's had to suspend collective responsibility to allow ministers to campaign against government policy. His authority will be shot if he loses the referendum. Even if he wins it, half his party will still hate him and his allies given the scaremongering tactics they've been employing.
Corbyn has hardly said anything during the campaign, regardless of what his personal views may be these days. Doesn't really need to. Labour is more or less united, at least publicly, on the remain side. And the grass roots of the party which elects the leader, loves him and will elect him again if they have to. Probably by a wider margin.
And you think Corbyn's got more to lose? Crazy. Take off the blue tints, um, Bluey. |  |
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 15:16 - May 17 with 1442 views | acejack3065 |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 15:00 - May 17 by exiledclaseboy |
That logic is f*cking mental. Cameron's leading a party which is split in two. He's had to suspend collective responsibility to allow ministers to campaign against government policy. His authority will be shot if he loses the referendum. Even if he wins it, half his party will still hate him and his allies given the scaremongering tactics they've been employing.
Corbyn has hardly said anything during the campaign, regardless of what his personal views may be these days. Doesn't really need to. Labour is more or less united, at least publicly, on the remain side. And the grass roots of the party which elects the leader, loves him and will elect him again if they have to. Probably by a wider margin.
And you think Corbyn's got more to lose? Crazy. Take off the blue tints, um, Bluey. |
what does Corybn have to lose over this? The bulk of the Labour party is campaigning for "remain" and everyone is well aware of his prior political leanings on this. Frustratingly his approval with members is at an all time high and its not like the EU is going to push him either closer or further away from electability.
Over half of the big personalities in this campaign are playing politics with their stance. Borris is directly angling to be PM. The only leader really sweating over this one is Cameron. |  | | |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 15:35 - May 17 with 1430 views | donkeylabour |
A labour press release has said I should vote to stay in.
In it is. |  |
| My father voted labour and his father voted labour and his father voted labour so I vote labour |
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 16:00 - May 17 with 1411 views | yescomeon |
I definitely understand logic of the question posed in the OP. I'm pretty sure I will be voting in as I am 90% it will be better for me long term, and better for Wales. However, I don't necessarily see it as a disaster for the UK if out wins, aside from the whole breakup of the UK thing, but that is no disaster. For me the fact that we would still have to abide by EU laws if we left but would have no say in the making of them is what is clinching the in vote for me. |  |
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 16:06 - May 17 with 1395 views | Joe_bradshaw |
I tend to agree with you. Whether we like it or not Europe has a massive role in our trade whether we're in or out. The difference being that we have no say in rules that we have to abide by if we're out.
I see the out campaign want a replay if they suffer a narrow defeat.  |  |
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 16:10 - May 17 with 1390 views | AnotherJohn |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 16:00 - May 17 by yescomeon |
I definitely understand logic of the question posed in the OP. I'm pretty sure I will be voting in as I am 90% it will be better for me long term, and better for Wales. However, I don't necessarily see it as a disaster for the UK if out wins, aside from the whole breakup of the UK thing, but that is no disaster. For me the fact that we would still have to abide by EU laws if we left but would have no say in the making of them is what is clinching the in vote for me. |
Fact? I know this is a commonly made argument, but many countries trade with the EU without accepting EU laws (or the rules of the single market). Quite where we would end up seems a matter for negotiation. What scares me is that if we stay in I see no way of keeping the UK population below 70 million in the quite near term, and that will have consequences. |  | | |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 16:53 - May 17 with 1359 views | blueytheblue |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 15:00 - May 17 by exiledclaseboy |
That logic is f*cking mental. Cameron's leading a party which is split in two. He's had to suspend collective responsibility to allow ministers to campaign against government policy. His authority will be shot if he loses the referendum. Even if he wins it, half his party will still hate him and his allies given the scaremongering tactics they've been employing.
Corbyn has hardly said anything during the campaign, regardless of what his personal views may be these days. Doesn't really need to. Labour is more or less united, at least publicly, on the remain side. And the grass roots of the party which elects the leader, loves him and will elect him again if they have to. Probably by a wider margin.
And you think Corbyn's got more to lose? Crazy. Take off the blue tints, um, Bluey. |
It's all a meta game. No sitting PM will come out and say they want out... Cameron's hyperbole is telling on this matter. This way he gets to go, party gets a Eurosceptic PM on the basis of a leave vote.
Corbyn has publicly backed remain, a complete U turn in his view in a very short space of time. Whereas the Tories may be split over the EU, Corbyn is as popular amongst his own MPs as a fart in an elevator. Grass roots may well love him, electorate however don't.
Corbyn has more to lose because Labour are typically more pro-EU. He is anti-EU. Lose the vote, those anti-Corbynistas have far more ammunition - can point to his lacklustre defence of EU membership as being down to his personal views...
Cameron is hardly in a lose-lose scenario. He's going to step down at some point regardless. Has done what he had to, namely to be seen as pushing the remain case. When he loses, can then turn round to rest of EU and point out he tried... push the leave case, he can't do that. So it's all a meta game about exiting gracefully... | |
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 17:04 - May 17 with 1349 views | yescomeon |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 16:10 - May 17 by AnotherJohn |
Fact? I know this is a commonly made argument, but many countries trade with the EU without accepting EU laws (or the rules of the single market). Quite where we would end up seems a matter for negotiation. What scares me is that if we stay in I see no way of keeping the UK population below 70 million in the quite near term, and that will have consequences. |
Sorry, figure of speech. My understanding is that a UK independent of the EU would pursue a similar kind of set-up to Norway or Switzerland, in which case we would still indirectly or directly be subject to EU regulations. If that is the case then easily better off in the EU. I am not stating this as a fact, simply what I have picked up from the frankly quite confused debate. | |
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 17:13 - May 17 with 1340 views | blueytheblue |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 17:04 - May 17 by yescomeon |
Sorry, figure of speech. My understanding is that a UK independent of the EU would pursue a similar kind of set-up to Norway or Switzerland, in which case we would still indirectly or directly be subject to EU regulations. If that is the case then easily better off in the EU. I am not stating this as a fact, simply what I have picked up from the frankly quite confused debate. |
Uk is in far better shape to demand better than the Norwegian or Swiss model. Trade with the EU as a percentage is fallen, after all.
if Britain leaves, the Eu will collapse. Merkel will quickly get fed up funding the other weak economies. other nations will want to follow Britain's lead. | |
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? (n/t) on 17:15 - May 17 with 1331 views | VetchitBack |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 15:35 - May 17 by donkeylabour |
A labour press release has said I should vote to stay in.
In it is. |
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| The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 17:39 - May 17 with 1281 views | VetchitBack |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 16:06 - May 17 by Joe_bradshaw |
I tend to agree with you. Whether we like it or not Europe has a massive role in our trade whether we're in or out. The difference being that we have no say in rules that we have to abide by if we're out.
I see the out campaign want a replay if they suffer a narrow defeat. |
Yeah ask the Irish about that one... | |
| The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 17:44 - May 17 with 1273 views | donkeylabour |
Farage like Boris are both the same. It's all about them and their egos not Europe.
The ideal result for both is around 45-50% out.
I'm so pleased we have committed pro EU leader's like Jeremy Corbyn who has been committed to the project for years and shown real decisive leadership.
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| My father voted labour and his father voted labour and his father voted labour so I vote labour |
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 19:03 - May 17 with 1183 views | yescomeon |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 17:13 - May 17 by blueytheblue |
Uk is in far better shape to demand better than the Norwegian or Swiss model. Trade with the EU as a percentage is fallen, after all.
if Britain leaves, the Eu will collapse. Merkel will quickly get fed up funding the other weak economies. other nations will want to follow Britain's lead. |
I wouldn't like to see the EU collapse, whether we are in it or not. | |
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 19:32 - May 17 with 1162 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 16:53 - May 17 by blueytheblue |
It's all a meta game. No sitting PM will come out and say they want out... Cameron's hyperbole is telling on this matter. This way he gets to go, party gets a Eurosceptic PM on the basis of a leave vote.
Corbyn has publicly backed remain, a complete U turn in his view in a very short space of time. Whereas the Tories may be split over the EU, Corbyn is as popular amongst his own MPs as a fart in an elevator. Grass roots may well love him, electorate however don't.
Corbyn has more to lose because Labour are typically more pro-EU. He is anti-EU. Lose the vote, those anti-Corbynistas have far more ammunition - can point to his lacklustre defence of EU membership as being down to his personal views...
Cameron is hardly in a lose-lose scenario. He's going to step down at some point regardless. Has done what he had to, namely to be seen as pushing the remain case. When he loses, can then turn round to rest of EU and point out he tried... push the leave case, he can't do that. So it's all a meta game about exiting gracefully... |
I try to remain polite as you know, and I long since accepted your "Tory great, everything else terrible" thing you've got going on. But that logic is so twisted and against every possible reality that I can't do anything with it. | |
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 19:49 - May 17 with 1147 views | donkeylabour |
Cameron has always been a committed europhile, as is Osborne (more so)
The hatred between the right and left of the tories is coming to the fore and is probably unable to be repaired. | |
| My father voted labour and his father voted labour and his father voted labour so I vote labour |
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 21:23 - May 17 with 1100 views | WarwickHunt |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 17:13 - May 17 by blueytheblue |
Uk is in far better shape to demand better than the Norwegian or Swiss model. Trade with the EU as a percentage is fallen, after all.
if Britain leaves, the Eu will collapse. Merkel will quickly get fed up funding the other weak economies. other nations will want to follow Britain's lead. |
The EU won't collapse.
You're normally sensible, have you taken some idiot pills? |  | | |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 21:30 - May 17 with 1089 views | blueytheblue |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 21:23 - May 17 by WarwickHunt |
The EU won't collapse.
You're normally sensible, have you taken some idiot pills? |
Hardly.
Britain leaves, then Germany is even further way ahead of every other economy there. Think Merkel will be incredibly popular when the Germans then bear the brunt of subsidising everyone else even more? There are nations looking to see how this vote goes - if Britain leaves, others will want to.
Anyone with common sense wants the monolithic, undemocratic farce that the EU is dead, replaced with what it should be - a trading block. Trying to harmonise many disparate nations with different rules, cultures is stupid. USA can do it, the commonality is there. Europe? Forget it. The fact many want Turkey in just shows how ridiculous it is. Erdogan is possibly madder than Putin. | |
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 21:37 - May 17 with 1082 views | WarwickHunt |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 21:30 - May 17 by blueytheblue |
Hardly.
Britain leaves, then Germany is even further way ahead of every other economy there. Think Merkel will be incredibly popular when the Germans then bear the brunt of subsidising everyone else even more? There are nations looking to see how this vote goes - if Britain leaves, others will want to.
Anyone with common sense wants the monolithic, undemocratic farce that the EU is dead, replaced with what it should be - a trading block. Trying to harmonise many disparate nations with different rules, cultures is stupid. USA can do it, the commonality is there. Europe? Forget it. The fact many want Turkey in just shows how ridiculous it is. Erdogan is possibly madder than Putin. |
I'm going to stock up on dry goods.
Wibble. | | | |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 00:28 - May 18 with 1016 views | DJack |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 21:37 - May 17 by WarwickHunt |
I'm going to stock up on dry goods.
Wibble. |
You'd best buy any British dry goods now. When we leave Europe all the Brits will buy British and what's left will be exported all over the world making us a powerhouse...Honest, guv! |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 12:07 - May 18 with 962 views | WarwickHunt |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 00:28 - May 18 by DJack |
You'd best buy any British dry goods now. When we leave Europe all the Brits will buy British and what's left will be exported all over the world making us a powerhouse...Honest, guv! |
Innit.
Some spectacularly low wattage stuff on this thread, even by PS standards. | | | |
| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 12:40 - May 18 with 934 views | felixstowe_jack |
Now that Welsh unemployed is 4.8% less than the UK average 5.1% Wales can no longer be classed as a "poor" region of the EU. Looks like all the EU grants will now go to the other poor regions of England. | |
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| Who's voting for 'remain' but hope 'leave' wins ? on 13:25 - May 18 with 920 views | WxmJax |
When I look at those that want us to leave my tendency is to vote the opposite. |  |
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