| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong 18:40 - Oct 4 with 3241 views | CaliforniaJack |
I am starting to get fed up of Monk's inability to work out a team's counter tactics. It happened against Chelsea, Southampton and now Newcastle. He needs to look at how to adapt our set up and tactics when the opposition changes theirs that affect the game. How on earth he persisted with Dyer all game when clearly he was not getting any change out of their full back is beyond me !!! Montero should have been brought on a lot earlier - whats the point in bringing him on with 6 minutes to go. Also Ash was poor today his positioning for both goals was awful - for the second he was more interested in telling Taylor to cover the wingers run. Mr Monk you need to start learning how to adapt our play during games otherwise 2-3 points will slip out of our grasp each week !!! |  | | |  |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 18:50 - Oct 4 with 3181 views | LeonisGod |
How did Newcastle change their tactics? |  | | |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 18:52 - Oct 4 with 3163 views | scottishjack |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 18:50 - Oct 4 by LeonisGod |
How did Newcastle change their tactics? |
The rotten ba***ds played to their strengths and then refused to roll over for us apparently?
Very cunning from Pardew, the Cad! |  | | |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 19:01 - Oct 4 with 3124 views | CaliforniaJack |
Pardew brought on Ameobi and Riviere (for the ineffective Colback and Gouffran) and changed his setup to play with more pace and more direct balls into the box. Obertan was pushed out wider and caught Ash/Taylor (with Fernandez out of position) asleep for the second goal. All of this happened on the 60 minute mark shortly after Routledge scored. | | | |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 19:15 - Oct 4 with 3076 views | ScoobyWho |
Monk has a solid structure behind him and a sound way of coaching brought about by years of playing football in a certain way at Swansea. His game management is currently in question and I can see why, however he may need time just like Bony ?
Or maybe he just isn't bright enough to be able to see a situation requires a remedy ?
Very Hollinsesque today, subs too late, tactics too obvious, ponderous and lethargic.
POOR, and not different in any way to Southampton.
A real top side would have killed us today.
PS - Jazz and Taylor ? NO !  why are they allowed in the premier league ! |  |
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| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 19:16 - Oct 4 with 3071 views | LeonisGod |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 19:01 - Oct 4 by CaliforniaJack |
Pardew brought on Ameobi and Riviere (for the ineffective Colback and Gouffran) and changed his setup to play with more pace and more direct balls into the box. Obertan was pushed out wider and caught Ash/Taylor (with Fernandez out of position) asleep for the second goal. All of this happened on the 60 minute mark shortly after Routledge scored. |
That's one phase of play. Fernandez got pulled out and missed his tackle so they got round the back. They only did that to effect twice all match. Otherwise, there was little difference in their set up after the subs. I thought they played fewer direct balls after the changes and were the team playing better football. Because we kept conceding possession with lazy long balls. | | | |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 19:18 - Oct 4 with 3065 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 19:01 - Oct 4 by CaliforniaJack |
Pardew brought on Ameobi and Riviere (for the ineffective Colback and Gouffran) and changed his setup to play with more pace and more direct balls into the box. Obertan was pushed out wider and caught Ash/Taylor (with Fernandez out of position) asleep for the second goal. All of this happened on the 60 minute mark shortly after Routledge scored. |
OK, what should he have done to prevent it?
Certainly not take Dyer off earlier as it would have made no difference as the attacks came down our Left wing. | | | |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 19:48 - Oct 4 with 2991 views | CaliforniaJack |
It was clear that we should have brought on Montero to play in front of Taylor so that Montero could have attacked their right back at pace and put them on the back foot (rather than them coming at us down their right wing which they ended up scoring from). If we had switched Routledge to the left (and taken off Dyer for Montero earlier) he could have played better through balls into Bony/Sigurdsson rather than Dyers several failed attempts to get past Dummett. | | | |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 19:55 - Oct 4 with 2941 views | CaliforniaJack |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 19:18 - Oct 4 by A_Fans_Dad |
OK, what should he have done to prevent it?
Certainly not take Dyer off earlier as it would have made no difference as the attacks came down our Left wing. |
So are you saying that Dyer had a good game and affected the outcome in a positive way today? If so at what point? I like Dyer as a player when he is in form and can change the outcome with his forward and defensive play - he did neither today. | | | |
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| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 20:01 - Oct 4 with 2920 views | Dr_Winston |
We were pedestrian in possession (no movement ahead of the ball, no desire to take ownership of the situation) and just about got a point where all three were there for the taking.
Fairly piss poor performance overall. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 20:08 - Oct 4 with 2883 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 19:55 - Oct 4 by CaliforniaJack |
So are you saying that Dyer had a good game and affected the outcome in a positive way today? If so at what point? I like Dyer as a player when he is in form and can change the outcome with his forward and defensive play - he did neither today. |
No, their Left Back did to Dyer most of the time what our Left Back didn't do. | | | |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 20:10 - Oct 4 with 2871 views | max936 |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 19:01 - Oct 4 by CaliforniaJack |
Pardew brought on Ameobi and Riviere (for the ineffective Colback and Gouffran) and changed his setup to play with more pace and more direct balls into the box. Obertan was pushed out wider and caught Ash/Taylor (with Fernandez out of position) asleep for the second goal. All of this happened on the 60 minute mark shortly after Routledge scored. |
Obertan was great fair do's his pedegree is a good one, but for once he lived up to it today. |  |
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| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 20:35 - Oct 4 with 2777 views | LeonisGod |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 20:01 - Oct 4 by Dr_Winston |
We were pedestrian in possession (no movement ahead of the ball, no desire to take ownership of the situation) and just about got a point where all three were there for the taking.
Fairly piss poor performance overall. |
I thought so. Not blaming individuals, or timings of subs or anything like that. We were just off the pace - seemed bleeding obvious to me. Pick the tempo up and 3 points were there for the taking. | | | |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 20:38 - Oct 4 with 2761 views | Dr_Winston |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 20:35 - Oct 4 by LeonisGod |
I thought so. Not blaming individuals, or timings of subs or anything like that. We were just off the pace - seemed bleeding obvious to me. Pick the tempo up and 3 points were there for the taking. |
The whole thing struck me as a very "Rodgers" performance. Lots of unnecessary passes. Lots of ball retention for the sake of it when there were better attacking options available.
It'll keep us in the division without doubt, but it's a step down from early Laudrup (before he went mental). | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 21:04 - Oct 4 with 2708 views | 3swan |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 20:01 - Oct 4 by Dr_Winston |
We were pedestrian in possession (no movement ahead of the ball, no desire to take ownership of the situation) and just about got a point where all three were there for the taking.
Fairly piss poor performance overall. |
Just about what the conversation coming home in the car.
WE play well when we play at a high tempo. Today was pedestrian , and seemed that a few players thought it was a turn up and win game.
Garry Monk says he is telling the players about being strong mentally in games, well it's back to the classroom for some | | | |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 06:23 - Oct 5 with 2498 views | Dr_Winston |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 21:04 - Oct 4 by 3swan |
Just about what the conversation coming home in the car.
WE play well when we play at a high tempo. Today was pedestrian , and seemed that a few players thought it was a turn up and win game.
Garry Monk says he is telling the players about being strong mentally in games, well it's back to the classroom for some |
Agreed. Tempo is everything to us. When it's not there we look bang average, which makes it even more puzzling as to why Montero kicked his heels on the bench until we were past the 80 minute mark. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 09:38 - Oct 5 with 2360 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 19:18 - Oct 4 by A_Fans_Dad |
OK, what should he have done to prevent it?
Certainly not take Dyer off earlier as it would have made no difference as the attacks came down our Left wing. |
Against Everton Jeff covered Taylor superbly and if he had come on earlier yesterday perhaps Newcastle's second goal may have been prevented. Probably their first if Jeff had started. Dyer could do with a rest as he looked tired as hell yesterday and Routs just looks like he can produce something out if nothing at any given moment so undropable for me at the moment.
Bringing Montero on with less than 10 minutes to go was a complete waste of time. He was never going to be able to have an influence the game in such a short amount of time. Monk must have had a brain freeze |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 09:41 - Oct 5 with 2352 views | epaul |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 20:35 - Oct 4 by LeonisGod |
I thought so. Not blaming individuals, or timings of subs or anything like that. We were just off the pace - seemed bleeding obvious to me. Pick the tempo up and 3 points were there for the taking. |
Now that is bang on the money |  |
| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
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| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 09:46 - Oct 5 with 2343 views | Jackfath |
I was going to start a thread this morning virtually identical to the OP.
What possible reason would you leave a potential match winner in Montero on the bench for so long? What's the point in bringing him on with less that 10 minutes to go. It was obvious to those with less footballing pedigree than Mr Monk that Dyer was not having his best return out there, which makes all the more puzzling and frustrating.
First signs of concern for me. |  |
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| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 09:49 - Oct 5 with 2333 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 06:23 - Oct 5 by Dr_Winston |
Agreed. Tempo is everything to us. When it's not there we look bang average, which makes it even more puzzling as to why Montero kicked his heels on the bench until we were past the 80 minute mark. |
Winnie do you think that it's the combination of Shelvey and Ki which isn't really balanced that is causing this? It will be interesting to see when Leon comes back if our tempo increases for the better with Ki or JJS in front of him. My money is on the former as JJS doesn't have the finesse that Ki possesses. It will be a case of horses for courses , perhaps playing JJS in the games against the more physical sides a la Stokes/ West Hams of the division.
One has to wonder what difference JDG would have made to this side in place of JJS yesterday for example. Don't get me wrong I don't dislike Jonjo (and we couldn't prevent JDG leaving) it's all about the most effective XI we can put out on the pitch/ could have put out on the pitch. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 10:04 - Oct 5 with 2299 views | Dr_Winston |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 09:49 - Oct 5 by Brynmill_Jack |
Winnie do you think that it's the combination of Shelvey and Ki which isn't really balanced that is causing this? It will be interesting to see when Leon comes back if our tempo increases for the better with Ki or JJS in front of him. My money is on the former as JJS doesn't have the finesse that Ki possesses. It will be a case of horses for courses , perhaps playing JJS in the games against the more physical sides a la Stokes/ West Hams of the division.
One has to wonder what difference JDG would have made to this side in place of JJS yesterday for example. Don't get me wrong I don't dislike Jonjo (and we couldn't prevent JDG leaving) it's all about the most effective XI we can put out on the pitch/ could have put out on the pitch. |
Number of reasons I reckon.
Monk is reverting to the kind of "possession rules" style Brendan preferred, which is a natural thing for a rookie manager to do. Base your approach on a system that you know to be fairly effective. It'll win us points and keep us in the division, but there will be games like yesterday where a more aggressive attitude (like early Laudrup) would in all likelihood have seen us take all three.
The other main reason is a lot of our attacking threat comes from the fullbacks, and we had none of that yesterday. Taylor has never been particularly good going forward, even before he got injured. Richards didn't link with Dyer anything like as effectively as Rangel does. We've seen time and again that those two are far better as a pairing than individually.
Midfield did ok for me for the most part, although the lack of willingness to carry the ball forward (from defence too in fairness) and play tedious and unnecessary sideways and backwards passes when there was 20/30 yards of free space to attack didn't help their cause. [Post edited 5 Oct 2014 10:05]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 10:16 - Oct 5 with 2266 views | icecoldjack |
Plenty of good constructive comments above.
IMO Monk was slow to change things and it cost us 3 pts. Dyer was getting no joy from the full back and Montero should have been on much sooner, he would have given Newcastle something to think about which would have meant us apply ing a bit more pressure on them.
This was also a typical Swans game when being favourites to win!
The players seem to drop intensity when playing against the type of sides where you would expect 3 pts( out of form teams not doing well) i was worried about this fixture for just that reason and to me it looked that the players either sometimes think they are better than they actually are or seem to think they can do the bare minimum to secure the result!
It was just a bit dissapointing all round for me, to go ahead twice and not secure the win was a real shame, we are throwing away points at the moment and most of it is down to us not the other teams!
Southampton,Sunderland and Newcastle were games where we helped the opposition achieve something by being sloppy.
We need to be mentally stronger and learn how to become more ruthless, the last 2 games have been a regression for me. |  | | |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 10:20 - Oct 5 with 2250 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 10:16 - Oct 5 by icecoldjack |
Plenty of good constructive comments above.
IMO Monk was slow to change things and it cost us 3 pts. Dyer was getting no joy from the full back and Montero should have been on much sooner, he would have given Newcastle something to think about which would have meant us apply ing a bit more pressure on them.
This was also a typical Swans game when being favourites to win!
The players seem to drop intensity when playing against the type of sides where you would expect 3 pts( out of form teams not doing well) i was worried about this fixture for just that reason and to me it looked that the players either sometimes think they are better than they actually are or seem to think they can do the bare minimum to secure the result!
It was just a bit dissapointing all round for me, to go ahead twice and not secure the win was a real shame, we are throwing away points at the moment and most of it is down to us not the other teams!
Southampton,Sunderland and Newcastle were games where we helped the opposition achieve something by being sloppy.
We need to be mentally stronger and learn how to become more ruthless, the last 2 games have been a regression for me. |
The last 3 for me. A more aggressive mindset as the Dr mentioned above might have seen us in third or second right now. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 10:27 - Oct 5 with 2235 views | bluenile |
| Poor Counter Tactics and Subs All Wrong on 10:16 - Oct 5 by icecoldjack |
Plenty of good constructive comments above.
IMO Monk was slow to change things and it cost us 3 pts. Dyer was getting no joy from the full back and Montero should have been on much sooner, he would have given Newcastle something to think about which would have meant us apply ing a bit more pressure on them.
This was also a typical Swans game when being favourites to win!
The players seem to drop intensity when playing against the type of sides where you would expect 3 pts( out of form teams not doing well) i was worried about this fixture for just that reason and to me it looked that the players either sometimes think they are better than they actually are or seem to think they can do the bare minimum to secure the result!
It was just a bit dissapointing all round for me, to go ahead twice and not secure the win was a real shame, we are throwing away points at the moment and most of it is down to us not the other teams!
Southampton,Sunderland and Newcastle were games where we helped the opposition achieve something by being sloppy.
We need to be mentally stronger and learn how to become more ruthless, the last 2 games have been a regression for me. |
Agree with most of your points there..........................for me the most disappointing thing was the unbelievably slow tempo, I don't mind the passing and possession stats, but we thrive on a faster pace and struggle, always, with a much slower one. Listen, it's not the end of the world, we are in early October and stand 4th in the Premier League (at least for this morning), and there isn't anyone on here who wouldn't have accepted that at this stage. It's just that I wish the players and staff realised that we can't afford to be 'off the pace' in too many games, especially when we have the chance to put a game to bed so easily..............it'll be sorted though, i'm sure. |  |
| Open the ipod bay doors Hal |
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