| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm 18:10 - Aug 11 with 28489 views | Hubert |
Just seen it on twitter, Mail journo |  | | |  |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:14 - Aug 12 with 2143 views | _ |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:02 - Aug 12 by reddythered |
Wrong.
Fabianski made it plain he was leavign Arsenal for first team football. Any observer would thus know he was not going to you lot to "fight for the position". He was going as clear number one. Vorm was thus the backup.
I'll grant you pres-season could change that, but at the time of Fabianski signing the intent was clear.
So, say Vorm was on 2m a year wages, a madeup figure to serve as an example. Assume Fabianksi is on higher - by what degrree isn't necessarily important.
You've thus got a backup keeper on a wage you had determined he, as first choice keeper, should be on. Players generally won't renegotiate downwards so letting him go for free trims the wage bill by 2m.
Say he stayed until January, to get say 2m as a fee, a figure bandied about. Guess what? Made 2m. Paid out around 1m in wages. Profit 1m. Subtract Utrecht money from that.
So either save 2m now or make 350-500k later - and don't forget that the less games Vorm plays this season drives his value down. |
Assuming Vorm was on an astronomical salary like that, bearing in mind he came in on a fee and from the Dutchleague, hardly renowned as well paid over there in salaries.
I agree that there was very clear writing on the walls in terms of the number 1 position but don't agree Vorm was worth less than we paid for him. It's just been creatively drafted up to avoid the sell on fee, legally fine, I don't doubt otherwise, but tough on Utrecht and no club would like that if it happened to them. |  |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:26 - Aug 12 with 2114 views | Uxbridge |
He signed a new contract with us. |  |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:28 - Aug 12 with 2109 views | _ |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:26 - Aug 12 by Uxbridge |
He signed a new contract with us. |
Ok fair enough - but £2m a year??
And by doing so therefore ensuring we'd get a fee for him? | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:31 - Aug 12 with 2100 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:28 - Aug 12 by _ |
Ok fair enough - but £2m a year??
And by doing so therefore ensuring we'd get a fee for him? |
Think it was after his stellar first year. 40k a week is hardly a stretch is it? | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:38 - Aug 12 with 2083 views | _ |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:31 - Aug 12 by Uxbridge |
Think it was after his stellar first year. 40k a week is hardly a stretch is it? |
Well I think it is. I thought that sort of figure was at the very top end of our salary budget.
And I just didn't think he was at that top-end.
The club must have at one point though, if that's the case, and while under a lengthy contract would add more substance to obtaining a decent fee for him. | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:41 - Aug 12 with 2075 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:02 - Aug 12 by reddythered |
Wrong.
Fabianski made it plain he was leavign Arsenal for first team football. Any observer would thus know he was not going to you lot to "fight for the position". He was going as clear number one. Vorm was thus the backup.
I'll grant you pres-season could change that, but at the time of Fabianski signing the intent was clear.
So, say Vorm was on 2m a year wages, a madeup figure to serve as an example. Assume Fabianksi is on higher - by what degrree isn't necessarily important.
You've thus got a backup keeper on a wage you had determined he, as first choice keeper, should be on. Players generally won't renegotiate downwards so letting him go for free trims the wage bill by 2m.
Say he stayed until January, to get say 2m as a fee, a figure bandied about. Guess what? Made 2m. Paid out around 1m in wages. Profit 1m. Subtract Utrecht money from that.
So either save 2m now or make 350-500k later - and don't forget that the less games Vorm plays this season drives his value down. |
Oh God, I now find myself in the somewhat strange position of completely agreeing with a Cardiff fan ;-)
On the subject of Cardiff and keepers - are you keeping Marshall or will he be off? I watched the game last Friday evening and was quite surprised to see him playing (I'm afraid I haven't followed the ins and outs at the CCS this summer). | | | |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:44 - Aug 12 with 2062 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:38 - Aug 12 by _ |
Well I think it is. I thought that sort of figure was at the very top end of our salary budget.
And I just didn't think he was at that top-end.
The club must have at one point though, if that's the case, and while under a lengthy contract would add more substance to obtaining a decent fee for him. |
I had understood that Vorm was one of our top earners (that may of course be incorrect, but I thought that was the case from rumour at the time). And that would equally lend substance to us getting him off the books if he was only going to be a back up. Much the same as getting Michu off the books (at no or very small loan fee) after it was clear he couldn't add the value that we needed this season (albeit for the very different reason that he didn't want to play for us). | | | |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:50 - Aug 12 with 2048 views | Shaky |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 18:43 - Aug 12 by reddythered |
Are you thick? Actually, scrub that, already been proven.
There is no market price. There's no such thing, never will be. Stated that one already, covered by my point about people seeing values in Football Manager and wanting to bandy figures about.
For Utrecht to have a valid complaint, they would either need evidence there was a monetary value attached to Vorm's sale which has been covered up or ( and less likely to succeed ) argue that he has a market value which it would be scarcely credible wasn't paid.
To come up with such a market value, some arbitrary formula would have to be applied. As I also said previously, the value of a player is the negotiated result from what a buying club want to play and what a selling club would accept. It's way too fluid and dynamic to magically pluck a formula out of your behind... too many factors to calculate in.
So, assuming somewhere decides having some "market value" formula would be - which it isn't - some form of statistical analysis and manipulation has to take place, I'm sure you'd agree. You can't take the highest anymore than you can take the lowest; average can be swayed by both extremes, median may be better but not ideal.
Based upon your logic, all players like Joe Allen at the same age, same position would go for £15m. After all, that was the market value, right? |
By jove I think you've cracked it.
The market price for Joe Allen and any other players with exactly the same attributes two years ago was in fact £15 million.
Now we can move on to advanced pricing theory under supply/demand equilibrium conditions.
Q. Sally has 20p and is feeling peckish. How many 2p pick and mix sweets can she buy?
You have 2 weeks to formulate your answer, so there are no excuses for carelessness, ya hear? |  |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:58 - Aug 12 with 2027 views | Uxbridge |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:38 - Aug 12 by _ |
Well I think it is. I thought that sort of figure was at the very top end of our salary budget.
And I just didn't think he was at that top-end.
The club must have at one point though, if that's the case, and while under a lengthy contract would add more substance to obtaining a decent fee for him. |
The opposite I would argue. If he's coining, for example, 2m a year and has two years left we'd be more desperate to get rid than if he was "only" on 10k.
His market value would have plummeted since 2012 plus our desire to keep him would be approaching zero. Both of those would lead me to think we'd sell for a lot less than some seem to think he's worth | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 20:41 - Aug 12 with 1995 views | coolair |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:52 - Aug 12 by JackSomething |
If we've followed the rules, then I fail to understand how any supporter of the club could want us to hand over a substantial amount of money when we don't have to.
Especially when those same supporters want money spent on the squad, expanding the stadium, lowering ticket prices, etc... |
So as long as it's you club pulling a fast one on another club and you are a fan it doesn't matter?
Nobody in their right mind would believe that Swansea would let Vorm go for free, The only reason that happened is because of the Davies deal.
How can Swansea even think about that. The club got close to at 100 million after last season in TV money. And then they wont pay less than 1/2 million to Utrecht. Bad form | | | |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 20:52 - Aug 12 with 1973 views | Jackbustard |
We do have form for this sort of thing. We did the same to Ipswich a few seasons back when we tried to get out of a loan clause when we got promoted and Priskin had played for us and we eventually had to pay upo.
Granted it was probably above board but it doesnt make it right, we have deliberately shafted another club out of money they were entitled too.
The board might think theyve played a blinder here but carry on like that and other clubs wont want to do business with us. | | | |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 21:00 - Aug 12 with 1954 views | raynor94 |
God there's some drama queens on here, we have played by the rules many times over the years and been shafted, stop being so precious let's wait and see what the outcome is before crucifying the club |  |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 21:04 - Aug 12 with 1943 views | Starsky |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 21:00 - Aug 12 by raynor94 |
God there's some drama queens on here, we have played by the rules many times over the years and been shafted, stop being so precious let's wait and see what the outcome is before crucifying the club |
Init.
I'm waiting for someone to mention how upset Sheffield Wednesday were when we only paid them £25K for Dave Rushberry. |  |
| It's just the internet, init. |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 21:08 - Aug 12 with 1933 views | Jackbustard |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 21:00 - Aug 12 by raynor94 |
God there's some drama queens on here, we have played by the rules many times over the years and been shafted, stop being so precious let's wait and see what the outcome is before crucifying the club |
If this was done to us we would be tamping and rightly so. No doubt the club have done everything above board but we have let Vorm go for free and recouped money in other ares just to avoid paying out a sell of fee to a club who could probably do with the money. | | | |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 22:28 - Aug 12 with 1858 views | raynor94 |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 21:08 - Aug 12 by Jackbustard |
If this was done to us we would be tamping and rightly so. No doubt the club have done everything above board but we have let Vorm go for free and recouped money in other ares just to avoid paying out a sell of fee to a club who could probably do with the money. |
Why don't you wait for the outcome before the castigation, do you honestly believe we did the deal to do utrecht out of money? | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 22:34 - Aug 12 with 1849 views | reddythered |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:50 - Aug 12 by Shaky |
By jove I think you've cracked it.
The market price for Joe Allen and any other players with exactly the same attributes two years ago was in fact £15 million.
Now we can move on to advanced pricing theory under supply/demand equilibrium conditions.
Q. Sally has 20p and is feeling peckish. How many 2p pick and mix sweets can she buy?
You have 2 weeks to formulate your answer, so there are no excuses for carelessness, ya hear? |
A. Obviously 10. Because all those pick and mix sweets can be different individual sweet types but are priced identically.
You have two weeks to examine the logic behind your questions and work out why it's got no relation whatsoever to the point you're trying and struggling to make.
It's an open book test, you may confer with others. | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 22:39 - Aug 12 with 1838 views | reddythered |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:41 - Aug 12 by londonlisa2001 |
Oh God, I now find myself in the somewhat strange position of completely agreeing with a Cardiff fan ;-)
On the subject of Cardiff and keepers - are you keeping Marshall or will he be off? I watched the game last Friday evening and was quite surprised to see him playing (I'm afraid I haven't followed the ins and outs at the CCS this summer). |
You watched the game? I was at Butlins for the weekend, wife refused to allow me to disappear and watch the match... made claims about how I'd be an accessory to attempted murder when the kids were sent flying out of the window having driven her nuts all day.
As I understand it, we've rejected all offers for Marshall, which were rumoured to be in the 6-8m range. Think a figure of 17m as a minimum was mooted somewhere, not sure where that came from.
He's signed a new deal taking him up to 2017, crucial player for us, settled in the area. Medel, Caulker and Mutch going means we don't need to sell Marshall from a financial persective. | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 22:44 - Aug 12 with 1820 views | WarwickHunt |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 21:04 - Aug 12 by Starsky |
Init.
I'm waiting for someone to mention how upset Sheffield Wednesday were when we only paid them £25K for Dave Rushberry. |
Yeah - and we got Dave Rushbury instead...  |  | | |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 22:56 - Aug 12 with 1802 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 22:39 - Aug 12 by reddythered |
You watched the game? I was at Butlins for the weekend, wife refused to allow me to disappear and watch the match... made claims about how I'd be an accessory to attempted murder when the kids were sent flying out of the window having driven her nuts all day.
As I understand it, we've rejected all offers for Marshall, which were rumoured to be in the 6-8m range. Think a figure of 17m as a minimum was mooted somewhere, not sure where that came from.
He's signed a new deal taking him up to 2017, crucial player for us, settled in the area. Medel, Caulker and Mutch going means we don't need to sell Marshall from a financial persective. |
Yes - I had a pile of work to get done so had it on in the background!
Good news for you if you can keep Marshall although thought the game was a bit poor (albeit not as poor as us on Saturday)!!
I think the championship is such a hard league to get out of and have no idea what the other teams are like. In some ways, hard though it is to stay up, I'm sure it is harder to get promoted.
I'd wish you luck if I was more grown up about these things ;-) | | | |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 23:04 - Aug 12 with 1793 views | reddythered |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 22:56 - Aug 12 by londonlisa2001 |
Yes - I had a pile of work to get done so had it on in the background!
Good news for you if you can keep Marshall although thought the game was a bit poor (albeit not as poor as us on Saturday)!!
I think the championship is such a hard league to get out of and have no idea what the other teams are like. In some ways, hard though it is to stay up, I'm sure it is harder to get promoted.
I'd wish you luck if I was more grown up about these things ;-) |
We had Cala and Turner missing from central defence; no Dikacgoi in the DM role; Noone injured, no Guerra or Macheda so had a few players missing.
Thought we did ok against a decent but very physical side, especially away from home.
The Championship is tough, a lot of good teams in there. Difference from under Mackay is we now have goals in the side but may leak some. Get the balance right, we should be up there. | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 15:46 - May 28 with 1354 views | Darran |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 19:02 - Aug 11 by swanseacityfan |
What's unprofessional about it?
It looks like Spurs had Vorm for free and we are getting them to pay a % of Gylfi's wages for the duration. That is great business.
Some fans are completely getting out of control. |
Well said Haylz. |  |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:20 - May 28 with 1310 views | Lord_Bony |
Does anyone think it would be nice to see some of the posters above back on here?
Only asking. |  |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:23 - May 28 with 1301 views | Darran |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:20 - May 28 by Lord_Bony |
Does anyone think it would be nice to see some of the posters above back on here?
Only asking. |
I'd love to see reddythered back on here I miss him.
PM him Bony with your mod hat on and ask him if he's ok. | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:26 - May 28 with 1292 views | Lord_Bony |
I was thinking more T2C and Shaky amongst others in the thread. | |
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| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:29 - May 28 with 1283 views | Darran |
| Swans reported to FIFA by Utrecht over Vorm on 16:26 - May 28 by Lord_Bony |
I was thinking more T2C and Shaky amongst others in the thread. |
F*ck them your boss banned them.
PM Reddy. | |
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