| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! 19:45 - Nov 25 with 9184 views | philbozz |
My son and I were sitting next to Michael Gove on Saturday afternoon.
Fair play to the guy, I'm sure he could have sat somewhere in the posh seats, but he was behind the goal with his son and a few of his sons friends.
So whether one likes his politics or not (and I definitely don't, especially as my wife is a teacher who works 60 hours a week +), he was just a normal bloke, who was enjoying watching the R's with his son, wearing an old dog eared QPR scarf!
He jumped up and went as mad as the rest of us when Charlie Austin scored, we had a great view - he obviously wasn't a newcomer to football, he was very in tune with the game, clapping great tackles (Richard Dunne) and joined in a bit with the tiny bit of occasional chanting and clapped AJ when he came out for a warm up.
He almost made me think he was a good guy, until I saw him on Sunday morning on the Andrew Marr show, changed out of his jeans and back into the politicians suit (on a Sunday morning - what's that all about!)
Still - fair enough, on a Saturday afternoon he was an R's supporter, just like the rest of us!! |  | | |  |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 22:43 - Nov 25 with 1981 views | izlingtonhoop |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 22:27 - Nov 25 by ThGrimRanger |
He just wants to bring his boy to football on a Saturday so they can enjoy supporting their team together as a normal father and son.
Amazed he doesn't sit in exec seats, or go to Fulham.
I bet he takes some abuse in the Loft judging by the moronic comments above. |
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| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 05:44 - Nov 26 with 1899 views | hoopdog |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 21:59 - Nov 25 by QPRMUSO |
Fair post, I actually think he is one of the bravest ministers in recent times, prepared to make changes that are controversial but at least he is prepared to change things as our education sucks with no accountability for teachers, I know as my wife is one too. 17 sackings in 10 years in the entire country says it all. The teachers don't like change and that is why nearly all of them moan. There is also a very socialist mentality in schools so they will always hate the Tories. Gove gets my vote and the fact he is a Ranger makes him an even better bloke. |
Good teachers cover up for useless teachers ,
think they are above critisism as a profession and many of them are just wage takers , farking up kids chances , I make
Gove right trying to sort out these head up rses .
He's just about the only Tory out of this present mob that is trying do something worthwhile |  | | |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 09:03 - Nov 26 with 1817 views | QPRMUSO |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 05:44 - Nov 26 by hoopdog |
Good teachers cover up for useless teachers ,
think they are above critisism as a profession and many of them are just wage takers , farking up kids chances , I make
Gove right trying to sort out these head up rses .
He's just about the only Tory out of this present mob that is trying do something worthwhile |
Right on both counts Hoopdog! | | | |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 09:10 - Nov 26 with 1809 views | A40Bosh |
As all the education experts on this forum, those who know absolutely everything about teaching practices, will therefore also know that the status quo is about to change because as of Sept 13 the pay policy has changed to a more performance related pay structure so that teachers don't get a pay rise just on the basis of having completed another year in post, they have to prove they have performed to a high standard against agreed targets.
But of course you knew that. |  |
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| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 09:47 - Nov 26 with 1773 views | ElHoop |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 09:10 - Nov 26 by A40Bosh |
As all the education experts on this forum, those who know absolutely everything about teaching practices, will therefore also know that the status quo is about to change because as of Sept 13 the pay policy has changed to a more performance related pay structure so that teachers don't get a pay rise just on the basis of having completed another year in post, they have to prove they have performed to a high standard against agreed targets.
But of course you knew that. |
I think that many of us will be consumers of education via our kids.
I'm not particularly interested in teachers' pay or what goes on to measure performance, any more than I am interested in what a supermarket manager earns or a policeman is rewarded. I just wanted a decent education for my kids and for two out of three of them I don't think that they got one. They all went to grammar school too, and i don;t see that as the answer to all of our problems. Discipline is the elephant in this particular room.
I don't think that Gove is much good. He doesn't seem to have addressed enough of the ongoing issues, and they don't look like being addressed anytime soon. |  | | |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 10:56 - Nov 26 with 1726 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 09:47 - Nov 26 by ElHoop |
I think that many of us will be consumers of education via our kids.
I'm not particularly interested in teachers' pay or what goes on to measure performance, any more than I am interested in what a supermarket manager earns or a policeman is rewarded. I just wanted a decent education for my kids and for two out of three of them I don't think that they got one. They all went to grammar school too, and i don;t see that as the answer to all of our problems. Discipline is the elephant in this particular room.
I don't think that Gove is much good. He doesn't seem to have addressed enough of the ongoing issues, and they don't look like being addressed anytime soon. |
I have to say, el, that the modern fascination with 'consuming' education, tables of performance, yardmarks and all the other management speak leaves me cold too.
I read somewhere that to educate comes from latin and means to "draw out of". It doesn't mean "to hammer into", or " to regulate into".
The whole idea of education lacks inspiration. If we're ever going to draw out what's already there then it needs people who want to teach as a vocation, who want to improve minds and open up vistas for kids. It doesn't need civil servants and robots.
The only two approaches I've ever seen to education are stupifying violence and stupefying regulation. |  |
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| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 11:04 - Nov 26 with 1722 views | A40Bosh |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 10:56 - Nov 26 by BrianMcCarthy |
I have to say, el, that the modern fascination with 'consuming' education, tables of performance, yardmarks and all the other management speak leaves me cold too.
I read somewhere that to educate comes from latin and means to "draw out of". It doesn't mean "to hammer into", or " to regulate into".
The whole idea of education lacks inspiration. If we're ever going to draw out what's already there then it needs people who want to teach as a vocation, who want to improve minds and open up vistas for kids. It doesn't need civil servants and robots.
The only two approaches I've ever seen to education are stupifying violence and stupefying regulation. |
The only two approaches I've ever seen to education are stupifying violence and stupefying regulation.
That was the regime I was educated under too. | |
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| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 11:10 - Nov 26 with 1714 views | Kendo_Nagasaki |
He's allowing certain schools to teach creationism. The blokes a typical Tory **** |  |
| Psycho killer Qu'est-ce que c'est? |
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| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 11:35 - Nov 26 with 1692 views | Phildo |
Interesting thread this.
I finished a BA at the beginning of the nineties and a lot of the people I was there with became teachers because it was easy to become one and they couldn't think of anything else to do. It was not a particularly vocational choice. Some of them were hard working and some were not. A lot of them are still friends and i do not see that this has changed. I don't know how you fix it but i do think you need people who really want to teach.
I am a governor at my kids school though so try and help as much as I can. The majority of staff are brilliant although education is a little world of its own. We cannot touch the staff we know are poor though so they just go on making the same mistakes forever. One bloke we moved out of the classroom so that we were effectively paying him to sit in the staff room or photocopy things and the money for his salary could not be applied elsewhere. We could not longer inflict him on the kids though.The other staff accepted that he was very poor but could not countenance him losing his job as that simply does not happen in education. I think this sort of thing goes on in a lot of schools. Overall I think Gove has tried to take on this mentality and the academies thing has young teachers working very hard - totally different to a few years ago. Not sure how sustainable in the long term that will be. |  | | |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 12:11 - Nov 26 with 1659 views | QPRMUSO |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 11:35 - Nov 26 by Phildo |
Interesting thread this.
I finished a BA at the beginning of the nineties and a lot of the people I was there with became teachers because it was easy to become one and they couldn't think of anything else to do. It was not a particularly vocational choice. Some of them were hard working and some were not. A lot of them are still friends and i do not see that this has changed. I don't know how you fix it but i do think you need people who really want to teach.
I am a governor at my kids school though so try and help as much as I can. The majority of staff are brilliant although education is a little world of its own. We cannot touch the staff we know are poor though so they just go on making the same mistakes forever. One bloke we moved out of the classroom so that we were effectively paying him to sit in the staff room or photocopy things and the money for his salary could not be applied elsewhere. We could not longer inflict him on the kids though.The other staff accepted that he was very poor but could not countenance him losing his job as that simply does not happen in education. I think this sort of thing goes on in a lot of schools. Overall I think Gove has tried to take on this mentality and the academies thing has young teachers working very hard - totally different to a few years ago. Not sure how sustainable in the long term that will be. |
With you on both points Phildo. | | | |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 12:19 - Nov 26 with 1651 views | ElHoop |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 10:56 - Nov 26 by BrianMcCarthy |
I have to say, el, that the modern fascination with 'consuming' education, tables of performance, yardmarks and all the other management speak leaves me cold too.
I read somewhere that to educate comes from latin and means to "draw out of". It doesn't mean "to hammer into", or " to regulate into".
The whole idea of education lacks inspiration. If we're ever going to draw out what's already there then it needs people who want to teach as a vocation, who want to improve minds and open up vistas for kids. It doesn't need civil servants and robots.
The only two approaches I've ever seen to education are stupifying violence and stupefying regulation. |
Brian, you can't teach anyone anything if they're all mucking around.
If you then try to teach them something that they'll listen to without mucking about so much, then you'll miss out on boring but essential stuff. It's got nothing to do with cramming them with this that or the other, it's about having enough control to teach them what they really want to know. Grammar schools, syllabuses - whatever, they don't matte rif you don't have enough control over the class, and from what my kids have told me, that's a problem even in what are reckoned to be quite good schools. God knows what it's like down in the struggling schools.
I agree on the league tables. I think that there's too much emphasis on all that stuff and schools try to get out of teaching stuff which yields low grades or where they can't get good teachers, and that's not good. | | | |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 12:23 - Nov 26 with 1645 views | hovehoop |
Teaching is possibly the most important job in our country. I have friends that are teachers. One was disenchanted with the school and teaching for some while yet she hung around until something better came along. What kind of education did her students get in that time? I don't know though I'm not sure it bothered our friend that much. My kids are now through the schooling system. I met some teachers that were good and some were frustratingly poor. I met several teachers occupying senior positions for say 20 years who just threw their arms up and said it's difficult to motivate boys and that we/they should accept that as the status quo. Thankfully my son did well though largely because mum and dad were on his case. The education system has a lot of space for average and poor teachers to hide. In my book they should be accountable and the good teachers properly rewarded for their efforts. This also means paying good teachers their worth.
I live in Brighton and Hove and there are lots of foreign language students. Lots of foreign nationals are able to speak better English than many UK students the same age. This is a worry. There should be some recognition that many schools are shipping out kids with below average skills. It may also be that the definition of average ability is already set unreasonably low in some subjects. For a start, all able UK educated kids should be able to speak and write English than those that learn it as a second language. Or is that unreasonable? | | | |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 12:28 - Nov 26 with 1639 views | Metallica_Hoop |
I went to a state primary,
Mr Williams, Wimbledon fan, steel rimmed specs, cord patches "Erm c'mon guys" picked the football team on how good you were in class...
Anyway for once he was talking about something interesting (I used to get sent out to the library so I could read on my own as I was more advanced than erm..others) so I told everyone to shut up and listen and he sent me out. (again, not my fault you cant control a class)
The sooner this breed of teacher are eradicated/die out the better  |  |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 13:45 - Nov 26 with 1574 views | WestminsteRs |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 20:36 - Nov 25 by ElHoop |
Yeah as against almost 100% being written off at 11 now, if you exclude public schools. |
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| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 13:47 - Nov 26 with 1572 views | derbyhoop |
A good education results from good teachers being led well. The system used is not that important. When Labour brought in academies, it was an attempt to find a solution that was otherwise failing. In those cases, rebranding a school, forcing teachers to re-apply for their jobs and then only appointing the best has, in many cases, led to massively improved performance. The cosy closed shop where very poor teachers are allowed to continue in post should not be allowed to continue. Whoever is in power. But performance related pay, when there is no more money in the budget, is hardly a recipe for harmony in the staff room.
In many cases, academies work well. Whether they are any better than the LA schools they replaced is highly contentious. What people fail to realise is that certain services, for example those related to children with special needs, are an expensive option for a single school. Groups of schools (academies and non acadmeies) can work together to commission those services from a Local Authority or an external body. However, if the LA's funding is all transferred to academies in their area, the LA is no longer in a position to provide a cost effective service, forcing the schools to use more expensive, external providers.
It's also worth remembering that both academies and free schools are recipients of public money. In the case of a growing number of free schools, it is clear that the recipients of that public money have been effectively unaccountable.
As far as I am concerned Gove is well-meaning (The UK languishes behind enough countries, which is reason enough not to accept the status quo) but is carrying out a massive experiment with the Education system of this country. Too many initiatives smack of something sketched out on the bag of a fag packet. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 13:57 - Nov 26 with 1515 views | A40Bosh |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 13:47 - Nov 26 by derbyhoop |
A good education results from good teachers being led well. The system used is not that important. When Labour brought in academies, it was an attempt to find a solution that was otherwise failing. In those cases, rebranding a school, forcing teachers to re-apply for their jobs and then only appointing the best has, in many cases, led to massively improved performance. The cosy closed shop where very poor teachers are allowed to continue in post should not be allowed to continue. Whoever is in power. But performance related pay, when there is no more money in the budget, is hardly a recipe for harmony in the staff room.
In many cases, academies work well. Whether they are any better than the LA schools they replaced is highly contentious. What people fail to realise is that certain services, for example those related to children with special needs, are an expensive option for a single school. Groups of schools (academies and non acadmeies) can work together to commission those services from a Local Authority or an external body. However, if the LA's funding is all transferred to academies in their area, the LA is no longer in a position to provide a cost effective service, forcing the schools to use more expensive, external providers.
It's also worth remembering that both academies and free schools are recipients of public money. In the case of a growing number of free schools, it is clear that the recipients of that public money have been effectively unaccountable.
As far as I am concerned Gove is well-meaning (The UK languishes behind enough countries, which is reason enough not to accept the status quo) but is carrying out a massive experiment with the Education system of this country. Too many initiatives smack of something sketched out on the bag of a fag packet. |
Very good post Derby, nice to see some proper thought going into a post on a tetchy subject. | |
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| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 13:58 - Nov 26 with 1514 views | WestminsteRs |
At the risk of igniting a full on LFW war over education policy and generally start a competition to see who hates Tories most, as well as agreeing with what he's trying to do I've also had the pleasure of working with him a few years ago. Very sharp, hugely impressive intelligence and unbelievably polite and respectful. For a long time afterwards if he saw me he would make a point of saying hello by name and asking how I was etc. Seems like a fairly normal thing but it's surprisingly unusual.
He's passionate about reforming the education system and as someone who suffered the displeasure of being educated at an inner city comprehensive in the late 90s/early 00s, it's long overdue. I also think that quality of teachers is hugely variable and many that I encountered were below par and ill equipped. Putting aside modesty for a second, I was one of the brighter kids but was left to my own devices as they mostly made do with the bare minimum. Most of my working life and most of my social life is spent with people who went to private schools and I find myself envying their experiences. It's not right in my view to just say either (a) you get a good education in private schools but if you can't afford it you're buggered, or (b) let's just spend loads more, employ more teachers on better salaries etc - Labour tried it, it failed.
The education system is largely rotten and needs reform.
Oooh, political. | | | |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 14:15 - Nov 26 with 1491 views | CanadaRanger |
When it gets to 3 pm on a Saturday at LR, there are no Cabinet Ministers or MPs or Judges or Doctors or Lawyers... only supporters.
Everyone deserves their personal space to do things with their family.
Now if only the personal space at LR could include more leg room! |  | | |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 14:34 - Nov 26 with 1479 views | Monahoop |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 11:04 - Nov 26 by A40Bosh |
The only two approaches I've ever seen to education are stupifying violence and stupefying regulation.
That was the regime I was educated under too. |
A witness and victim of the psychopathic Christian Brotherhood per chance? |  |
| There aint half been some clever bastards. |
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| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 14:48 - Nov 26 with 1470 views | hovehoop |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 14:34 - Nov 26 by Monahoop |
A witness and victim of the psychopathic Christian Brotherhood per chance? |
My dad is 74 and went to a Christian Brothers school in Letterkenny. Even now he'd like a chance of payback for the hidings he received. | | | |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 14:59 - Nov 26 with 1464 views | A40Bosh |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 14:34 - Nov 26 by Monahoop |
A witness and victim of the psychopathic Christian Brotherhood per chance? |
Not Christian Brothers but still a fair number of men of the cloth at a Catholic school not far from LR who enjoyed dishing it out. Very disciplined and still is to this day. | |
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| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 15:13 - Nov 26 with 1451 views | MrSheen |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 14:15 - Nov 26 by CanadaRanger |
When it gets to 3 pm on a Saturday at LR, there are no Cabinet Ministers or MPs or Judges or Doctors or Lawyers... only supporters.
Everyone deserves their personal space to do things with their family.
Now if only the personal space at LR could include more leg room! |
Not a problem for Gove. |  | | |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 15:14 - Nov 26 with 1448 views | MrSheen |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 14:59 - Nov 26 by A40Bosh |
Not Christian Brothers but still a fair number of men of the cloth at a Catholic school not far from LR who enjoyed dishing it out. Very disciplined and still is to this day. |
Cardinal Vaughan? Or were you a Benny Boy like me? | | | |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 15:35 - Nov 26 with 1430 views | BlackCrowe |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 15:14 - Nov 26 by MrSheen |
Cardinal Vaughan? Or were you a Benny Boy like me? |
How's the Marin Mr Sheen? |  |
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| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 15:35 - Nov 26 with 1427 views | A40Bosh |
| Cabinet Minister in the Lower Loft on Saturday !! on 15:14 - Nov 26 by MrSheen |
Cardinal Vaughan? Or were you a Benny Boy like me? |
CV mate. | |
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