| A Barnsley perspective.. 15:59 - Dec 31 with 5257 views | WhiteyBFC |
I know that some of you won't give a toss, and I understand that completely. However, I know some of you do, and so I'd like to just set the record straight with regards to Keith Hill, and his downfall..
First off, he himself was the cause of his own downfall.
I've been a regular at Oakwell for 25 seasons now, and never have I known such an overwhelming feeling of support/understanding for a manager who was basically failing.
Even on Saturday, there were no "Hill Out" chants at all. There were, however, a chorus of boos at both half and full time. And rightly so. It was the final straw.
As he himself admitted, our performances have been decent for most of the season. But a lack of goals, and a failure to keep clean sheets has seen us plummet to the foot of the table.
We haven't won a home game in FOUR months. Way back on September 1st. We have endured our worst run of home form in the clubs history. Only the 1952/53 season is equal to the sequence of league results we've been on. I've lost count, but it's something like 1 win in 15.
Under 18 months of his reign, we have never recovered from a deficit, to triumph in any league fixture. That's 71 games. The only time we've actually done it, was in beating you in the Summer, in the cup.
Against Cardiff a few weeks ago, top of the league, we played them off the park for large spells, but his 'favourites' failed to defend and we lost 2-1.
Against Wednesday, we had 63% of the ball and still lost. Ok, it was a dodgy goal, but still.
On Boxing Day against Birmingham we had 67% of the ball, and mullered them, without taking 1 of about 4 golden chances. They had two set-pieces and scored.
And Saturday, he dropped arguably our 4 best players from Boxing Day - Hassell, Dagnall, Greening and Stones - and selected his favourites once more - Wiseman, Done and McNulty. Lo and behold, Wiseman was at fault for 2 goals, McNulty the other.
He took Done and Wiseman off at half time, but it was too late, in many senses of the word...
His absolute blindness (or stubborn arrogance) with regards to certain players and team selection has brought about this awful form, and himself the sack.
He spent 90% of his tenure bemoaning a budget he called "competitive" upon his arrival. Every team we faced was better than us, apparently, due to money. Tactics, motivation, desire, coaching, didn't come into it with Keith, seemingly.
And then when he's given the funds to recruit players, he failed spectacularly. Certainly in addressing the blatant weakness in our squad - centre half.
His treatment of club legend Bobby Hassell has been disgraceful. There are many others now coming out of the woodwork, not happy about their treatment.
His frankly bizarre interviews, funny at first (especially when we weren't incapable of winning) became like watching a car crash. Gobbledygook I think is the best way to describe it.
He's been found out.
It's a lot easier to build a team in the lower leagues, to build that unity. You're given much more time/leeway. And the quality of players is very much of a muchness.
He expected to be able to do the same here, and failed miserably. He tried to control the press, media, the message boards, even the players who were on twitter or had newspaper columns - this is Barnsley. The longest serving second tier club. It was never going to be like Rochdale, where maybe he could develop a wall of silence, of propaganda. And I mean that in the best possible way. That's not me being arrogant about my club at all. Right now, we are the minnows of the division. But we are still a club that has far too much history, far too many achievements, for some jumped-up Boltonian to ride in and rule.
He got the backs up of many supporters with his digs at the fanbase, and whilst we were doing ok he revelled in it - arrogance. He thought he was untouchable. He linked himself to any job he could.
But as soon as the results went pear-shaped, he'd come back all humble, trying to get us back onside.
In all honesty, he was out of his depth.
He won't be the first manager to have a modicum of success at a League Two outfit, and then fail spectacularly in the big leagues. Steve Parkin, anyone?
It was only a couple of months ago that we thought he'd learned his lessons, and we were doing ok. But then he shoots his mouth off about other clubs and their finances and at the same time he's applying for the 4 Lancashire jobs that were at the time vacant. Unreal. And it's been downHILL ever since.
I expect him to show up at Gigg Lane, Boundary Park or some other shithole in the not too distant future, and good luck to him.
I just hope that when he does, he comes back for his sidekick, and the likes of Done, Wiseman and McNulty.
I sincerely hope that you lot steer clear of him. He shafted you, as did his mate Flitcroft. Don't forget that.
The unfortunate thing for us BFC fans is, our board are idiots - giving Flitcroft and Mellon it in the interim??? Lunacy.
Great win at the weekend for you lot though, and trust me I still keep an eye out for your results.
Have a great 2013.
Andy |  | | |  |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:03 - Dec 31 with 3619 views | TVOS1907 |
Serious question - have you ever thought you (Barnsley as a club and fans) might have ideas above your station about your place in the game? |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:06 - Dec 31 with 3595 views | Sheffdale |
Thanks for an insightful post - not too many surprises I suspect from the Dale faithful! |  | | |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:09 - Dec 31 with 3570 views | phomem |
The interesting thing will be how many ex dale players leave oakwell and where they end up |  | | |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:10 - Dec 31 with 3565 views | electricblue |
Well well what we said all along after he jumped ship....
But seriously Bury.......dont make me laugh..
Accrington would be a better place to restart.... [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:15 - Dec 31 with 3526 views | SalwaDale |
Hill left us on the way up, many have been proved correct with their belief that Barnsley was the wrong place. Oh well. |  |
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| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:15 - Dec 31 with 3524 views | DaleAwaydayBot |
what about your win over Birmingham City who are favorites to go back in The Premier League |  |
| After 3457 forum posts, 11 news comments & 1 match report....The Rochdale Information Robot were Born!!! |
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| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:15 - Dec 31 with 3522 views | BigKindo |
Some of your comments echo that which we often heard at Rochdale during his tenure. Perhaps somebody at your club should have read the small print on the label before opening the can. |  | | |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:17 - Dec 31 with 3503 views | phomem |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:15 - Dec 31 by DaleAwaydayBot |
what about your win over Birmingham City who are favorites to go back in The Premier League |
Skint Birmingham one of the favourites for relegation pre season in 20th place that is | | | |
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| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:21 - Dec 31 with 3478 views | judd |
As a matter of interest, how many managers have Barnsley had this century, and what was each tenure?
Dave Bassett (1999—00)
Eric Winstanley (Caretaker) (2000—01)
Nigel Spackman (2001)
Glyn Hodges (Caretaker) (2001)
Steve Parkin (2001—02)
Glyn Hodges (2002—03)
Gudjon Thordarson (2003—04)
Paul Hart (2004—05)
Andy Ritchie (2005—06)
Simon Davey (2006—09)
Mark Robins (2009—2011)
Keith Hill (2011—2012)
12 managers in that list, plus No. 13 as caretaker currently. Average tenure = 11 months.
Hill got 18 months.
Fookin' mongs club, totally diluted. |  |
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| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:31 - Dec 31 with 3438 views | R17ALE |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:15 - Dec 31 by BigKindo |
Some of your comments echo that which we often heard at Rochdale during his tenure. Perhaps somebody at your club should have read the small print on the label before opening the can. |
Thanks Whitey for a very interesting read! Little of it surprises me though, especially the bit about his comments putting fans' backs up.
We were saying on here when he left though, that Barnsley was a bad choice for his career path.
No disrespect intended, but for him to land a job the size of Bolton or Blackburn, he would have had to have had you challenging the play-off places and I know that the gap between your budget and the bigger Championship clubs is far bigger percentage wise, than the gap was with his Rochdale budget and League 2's big spenders.
He would have had to work a miracle of biblical proportions to have made a success of Barnsley, but he would have believed he could - typically.
And he definitely signed too many of his ex players who were good at our level, but found wanting at your level. At Dale he would generally either discover local talent, (eg Buckley), or would pick up the odd player from a bigger club who had lost their way and would "do them up" eg O'Grady.
At Barnsley, he looked down the leagues for a lot of his recruits, rather than at a lost soul from say, Leeds or Derby.
It's sad it hasn't worked out for him. I hope he has a good long think about what makes him get it right, and where he went wrong. Separate the 2 and have a good rest before landing another job this summer. He might like to add some humility to his varied cocktail of characteristics.
And thanks again for your insight. Some of us could have written most of it a year ago however!
And you've gone up in everybody's estimation for describing Gigg Lane as a shithole. You're right too! |  |
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| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:40 - Dec 31 with 3392 views | MoonyDale |
Andy you pretty much sum up the man perfectly, and for your sake I hope flicker does you some good even in the short term. He may surprise you.... |  |
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| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:45 - Dec 31 with 3360 views | R17ALE |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:40 - Dec 31 by MoonyDale |
Andy you pretty much sum up the man perfectly, and for your sake I hope flicker does you some good even in the short term. He may surprise you.... |
He may well MD, you're right.
Many thought Flicker was the brains of the operation.
There were times when comparisons of Hillcroft were made to the Clough/Taylor partnership.
Looking back I don't think it is unfair to reflect that it was perhaps Flicker who was nearer to Clough, and Hill was better on the recruitment side of things, like Taylor was.
Either way neither prospered without the other in the 80's and 90's, so it will be interesting to watch their careers unfurl. I wish them both luck. | |
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| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:50 - Dec 31 with 3335 views | SalwaDale |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:45 - Dec 31 by R17ALE |
He may well MD, you're right.
Many thought Flicker was the brains of the operation.
There were times when comparisons of Hillcroft were made to the Clough/Taylor partnership.
Looking back I don't think it is unfair to reflect that it was perhaps Flicker who was nearer to Clough, and Hill was better on the recruitment side of things, like Taylor was.
Either way neither prospered without the other in the 80's and 90's, so it will be interesting to watch their careers unfurl. I wish them both luck. |
If both their careers both go down the pan it is almost inevitable that we will see a reunion at Spotland at some point in the future. | |
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| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:52 - Dec 31 with 3325 views | ColDale |
If i had to split the differences between the two, I'd say Hill was the one with ambitions and drive, whilst Flicker is very much more empathetic and more grounded. |  | | |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:57 - Dec 31 with 3293 views | olympicdale |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:09 - Dec 31 by phomem |
The interesting thing will be how many ex dale players leave oakwell and where they end up |
Many of them would never ever have got to that level if it werent for hanging on Hills back, I'd expect quite a lot to be gone back to L1 or maybe even L2, cheeky bid for TK maybe? |  |
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| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:57 - Dec 31 with 3293 views | olympicdale |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:09 - Dec 31 by phomem |
The interesting thing will be how many ex dale players leave oakwell and where they end up |
DP [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| A Barnsley perspective.. on 17:08 - Dec 31 with 3242 views | Newbury_Dale |
What are Barnsley fans/board realistically expecting ? I would guess their playing budget is even smaller than Peterboro's | | | |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 17:12 - Dec 31 with 3223 views | kirbys |
As others say, thanks Whitey for the insights into KH's tenure at Barnsley.
From this side of the Pennines most Dale fans had mixed emotions about his departure to Oakwell. We had enjoyed a few seasons of success with football quality we had never seen before over a sustained period. The partnership with DF was brilliant and most of us forgave his occasional clumsy interview comments.
We knew it was only a matter of time before he left and rather optimistically hoped he would stay a little longer to steer us to greater success and yes, land a bigger job than the one he chose.
You don't mention the relationship with the Chairman. He was lucky here as he had Chris Dunphy and a board who gave total backing to Keith from the day he was given the chance to the day he began negotiations with you. Did he have that same relationship at Barnsley - I saw your chairman commenting on Sky and he appeared to be quite reasonable "given enough time, we liked his plans"etc? What I am saying is that he proved what he could do at Spotland and I don't buy the stuff about it being harder at a championship level. KH inherited a losing side, with no money and dwindling support. He introduced all the good modern supporting structures you take for granted. He was able to attract players at the right price and sold at a good price - sometimes when he would rather have kept them. Yes there were a few duff buys but on the whole he did very well.
I feel for the supporters at Oakwell who have had to endure at best mid table mediocrity for a long time and I think Keith had been given long enough to build success - or at least security. But something is wrong at Oakwell and it can't always be the manager - who will be next to do 12 to 18 months before the door is shown?
In conclusion you say little about Dave Flitcroft and his impact. The fact he remains as caretaker suggests the board like something about him.
In the meantime, I really hope Keith Hill can dust himself down after a good rest and carry on his career that fulfills the undoubted ability he showed us all at spotland - barring the one or two supporters who saw wrong in his balanced and undoubted success. Good luck to him and to you Andy.
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| A Barnsley perspective.. on 17:42 - Dec 31 with 3132 views | phomem |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 16:57 - Dec 31 by olympicdale |
DP [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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No chance wages would stop it ever happening | | | |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 18:01 - Dec 31 with 3080 views | SuddenLad |
In a nutshell, what Whitey is saying is that Keith Hill hasn't changed. He tried to carry on where he left off at Spotland.
Wherever he gets his next job, he needs to wise up as far as the media and supporters are concerned. When you're riding high it is easy to dismiss the comments. When you are struggling it accelerates your own demise.
He has the ability but not the common sense. Some people only learn the hard way - if at all. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| A Barnsley perspective.. on 18:35 - Dec 31 with 3029 views | middale |
Yes thanks Whitey. An extremely interesting read. One thing totally baffles me with Hill at Barnsley - why on earth he didn't get COG in? I know he was linked at least twice but it didn't happen. Perhaps he was scared of getting yet another ex Dale player in, but believe me if you'd had COG this season you wouldn't be in the relegation zone now.
I reckon HIll has been slightly unlucky at Barnsley. I saw them at Leicester where there was a very late equaliser, then there was the ridiculous Sheff Wed goal + dominating Birmingham. However, I also saw Barnsley away at Coventry last season and that was without doubt the worst performance I've ever seen from a Hill side. Totally negative for 90 minutes, what a contrast from his "no fear home or away" beginnings. So he's got himself to blame for abandoning his attacking principles.
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| A Barnsley perspective.. on 18:39 - Dec 31 with 3005 views | rafc1984 |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 18:35 - Dec 31 by middale |
Yes thanks Whitey. An extremely interesting read. One thing totally baffles me with Hill at Barnsley - why on earth he didn't get COG in? I know he was linked at least twice but it didn't happen. Perhaps he was scared of getting yet another ex Dale player in, but believe me if you'd had COG this season you wouldn't be in the relegation zone now.
I reckon HIll has been slightly unlucky at Barnsley. I saw them at Leicester where there was a very late equaliser, then there was the ridiculous Sheff Wed goal + dominating Birmingham. However, I also saw Barnsley away at Coventry last season and that was without doubt the worst performance I've ever seen from a Hill side. Totally negative for 90 minutes, what a contrast from his "no fear home or away" beginnings. So he's got himself to blame for abandoning his attacking principles.
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From what I can gather, COG isnt to bothered about playing for hill again. |  | | |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 18:55 - Dec 31 with 2976 views | ColDale |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 18:39 - Dec 31 by rafc1984 |
From what I can gather, COG isnt to bothered about playing for hill again. |
think thats a myth like the one that COG earns so much away from the game, he played for Dale for the love of the game. After his goal v Barnsley last month, he said: "The management team at Barnsley are the reason why I am playing in the Championship at Sheffield Wednesday. I am very respectful of what they have done for me. It was bittersweet to score against them." | | | |
| A Barnsley perspective.. on 19:39 - Dec 31 with 2858 views | Shun |
Can we have Wiseman back please? |  | | |
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