| Tutte situation? 22:07 - Mar 3 with 9213 views | officialdale |
What is actually going on with him? No doubt the lad is good enough to start, or get more than 10 minutes each week. Is there an attitude problem, or is he simply just not good enough? Because all 3 managers haven't had much faith in him.
From what I see, he's more than capable of changing games around. & atm, he's the only player we have that doesn't seem scared to have a drive, and a good dig at goal. |  | | |  |
| Tutte situation? on 19:05 - Mar 6 with 1222 views | TalkingSutty |
| Tutte situation? on 15:45 - Mar 6 by Daley_Lama |
"As for Tutte, he simply hasn't shown the attributes that Kennedy possesses and delivered upon. All I've seen is a player who takes an age to make a simple pass. He picks up the ball runs sideways (and back again) and then plays a five yard pass."
I remember another midfielder who used to be described in exactly the same way, he got the nickname "The Crab". Wonder what ever happened to him... |
Its impossible to compare Tutte with Jones, look at the service Jonah has given this club. look at the many man of the match awards/player of the season and remember all those goals he scored last season,was it nineteen ?
Now what has Tutte ever done in his two stints at Rochdale to even suggest he will be our next midfield maestro ? The lad is a waif for a start, he has a dodgy tempremant and needs to become a man before he can even be mentioned in the same breath as players like Jonah and Kennedy.
He has done rock all as yet and it cant just be coincidence that a succession of managers deem him not good enough to make the starting eleven on a regular basis. They cant all be wrong.
The misguided fans (minority) who labelled Jonah a crab where proved wrong and i suspect the ones who now assume Tutte could be the new Jonah will also be proved wrong, time will tell !! |  | | |
| Tutte situation? on 19:30 - Mar 6 with 1198 views | 442Dale |
| Tutte situation? on 19:05 - Mar 6 by TalkingSutty |
Its impossible to compare Tutte with Jones, look at the service Jonah has given this club. look at the many man of the match awards/player of the season and remember all those goals he scored last season,was it nineteen ?
Now what has Tutte ever done in his two stints at Rochdale to even suggest he will be our next midfield maestro ? The lad is a waif for a start, he has a dodgy tempremant and needs to become a man before he can even be mentioned in the same breath as players like Jonah and Kennedy.
He has done rock all as yet and it cant just be coincidence that a succession of managers deem him not good enough to make the starting eleven on a regular basis. They cant all be wrong.
The misguided fans (minority) who labelled Jonah a crab where proved wrong and i suspect the ones who now assume Tutte could be the new Jonah will also be proved wrong, time will tell !! |
But so far most of the arguments against Tutte have been proved to be less than factual (not been around for a few years, various managers have rated him enough to try and sign him)
What's Tutte ever done in two stints? He contributed to our excellent start to last season, despite playing wide. He was excellent at Birmingham for example. He's also displayed the ability to carry the ball forward at pace, something we don't have from midfield. It's been far from consistent but there's clearly ability there. And his attitude and body language in recent weeks has been very good, and I'm not too sure what he's done so wrong on the pitch before bar the odd tantrum - something others have been guilty of too.
Again, I'm not saying Tutte will be the answer, but he's yet to be given a sustained run in a position he prefers. It might be too late this season, but there was a time when a change should have been made and Jones rested. The captain's immediate upturn in performance upon Coleman's arrival served to illustrate this further.
We have to look to the future though, and players like Tutte (and it might not necessarily be Tutte himself) will have to be ahead of the likes of BBM and Jones more often than not for the club to progress.
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| Tutte situation? on 19:39 - Mar 6 with 1184 views | TalkingSutty |
| Tutte situation? on 19:30 - Mar 6 by 442Dale |
But so far most of the arguments against Tutte have been proved to be less than factual (not been around for a few years, various managers have rated him enough to try and sign him)
What's Tutte ever done in two stints? He contributed to our excellent start to last season, despite playing wide. He was excellent at Birmingham for example. He's also displayed the ability to carry the ball forward at pace, something we don't have from midfield. It's been far from consistent but there's clearly ability there. And his attitude and body language in recent weeks has been very good, and I'm not too sure what he's done so wrong on the pitch before bar the odd tantrum - something others have been guilty of too.
Again, I'm not saying Tutte will be the answer, but he's yet to be given a sustained run in a position he prefers. It might be too late this season, but there was a time when a change should have been made and Jones rested. The captain's immediate upturn in performance upon Coleman's arrival served to illustrate this further.
We have to look to the future though, and players like Tutte (and it might not necessarily be Tutte himself) will have to be ahead of the likes of BBM and Jones more often than not for the club to progress.
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I havent got a problem with Jonah being replaced but i have seen enough of Tutte to form the opinion that he isnt the one to do it.
From what i have seen he isnt good enough and regarding the suggestion that he hasnt played where he wants to play how do you know Tuttes preferred position ?
Its also not up to Tutte to dictate where he plays, thats down to the managers who react to what they see on the training pitch. We will have to disagree on this one. | | | |
| Tutte situation? on 19:43 - Mar 6 with 1172 views | Daley_Lama |
| Tutte situation? on 19:05 - Mar 6 by TalkingSutty |
Its impossible to compare Tutte with Jones, look at the service Jonah has given this club. look at the many man of the match awards/player of the season and remember all those goals he scored last season,was it nineteen ?
Now what has Tutte ever done in his two stints at Rochdale to even suggest he will be our next midfield maestro ? The lad is a waif for a start, he has a dodgy tempremant and needs to become a man before he can even be mentioned in the same breath as players like Jonah and Kennedy.
He has done rock all as yet and it cant just be coincidence that a succession of managers deem him not good enough to make the starting eleven on a regular basis. They cant all be wrong.
The misguided fans (minority) who labelled Jonah a crab where proved wrong and i suspect the ones who now assume Tutte could be the new Jonah will also be proved wrong, time will tell !! |
I agree, agree and agree some more.
I've not seen anything this season that has made me think Tutte is deserving of a starting place in the team, I can only remember 2 games where I thought he played well, away at Brum in his first stint at the club and then off the bench in the home game versus Bury.
I've missed a fair few this season so there may be more, but for tme the midfield trio of BBM. Jonah, JK can all start for the rest of the season.
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| Tutte situation? on 19:46 - Mar 6 with 1166 views | 442Dale |
| Tutte situation? on 19:39 - Mar 6 by TalkingSutty |
I havent got a problem with Jonah being replaced but i have seen enough of Tutte to form the opinion that he isnt the one to do it.
From what i have seen he isnt good enough and regarding the suggestion that he hasnt played where he wants to play how do you know Tuttes preferred position ?
Its also not up to Tutte to dictate where he plays, thats down to the managers who react to what they see on the training pitch. We will have to disagree on this one. |
The only way we can establish where he prefers to play is to listen to the player himself. Of course managers will have different views - look how Rooney has been used by Utd over the years.
If managers have decided Tutte wasn't better than what we had centrally earlier in the season, the big error wasn't bringing someone in who was. We have been nowhere near good enough going forward from midfield. We don't pose enough questions. | |
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| Tutte situation? on 20:07 - Mar 6 with 1158 views | pl56 |
| Tutte situation? on 19:05 - Mar 6 by TalkingSutty |
Its impossible to compare Tutte with Jones, look at the service Jonah has given this club. look at the many man of the match awards/player of the season and remember all those goals he scored last season,was it nineteen ?
Now what has Tutte ever done in his two stints at Rochdale to even suggest he will be our next midfield maestro ? The lad is a waif for a start, he has a dodgy tempremant and needs to become a man before he can even be mentioned in the same breath as players like Jonah and Kennedy.
He has done rock all as yet and it cant just be coincidence that a succession of managers deem him not good enough to make the starting eleven on a regular basis. They cant all be wrong.
The misguided fans (minority) who labelled Jonah a crab where proved wrong and i suspect the ones who now assume Tutte could be the new Jonah will also be proved wrong, time will tell !! |
Just a few of points on this that have to be challenged .
The suggestion that being a "waif" disqualifies you from being a competitive and effective footballer is clearly false - as evidence I give you one Lionel Messi and the majority of the Barcelona squad . Not saying that Tutte is anywhere near that class - just that the implied generalisation is rubbish .
Not sure where the "dodgy" temperament came from ; the lad had one bust up with Keith Hill and , as we all know , once was often enough for Keith on that score . Since then he's played consistently at Yeovil , and was wanted there , was clearly comfortable working with Steve Eyre , and as far as I'm aware , has been no trouble since signing . No doubt some more "informed" by club gossip may know more than me !
Tutte started the season as a regular under Eyre (not a recommendation , I know ) , and struggled more due to Eyre's lack of balance in his teams , and his obsession with playing Jones in a flat 4-4-2 as a central midfielder . Since then he was out of the picture with Chris Beech (perhaps a recommendation given the disorganisation and results that brought ?) , and is now selected for the match day squad on a regular basis by Coleman .
Yes , I still think Garry Jones no longer has the pace or inventiveness these days to make the sort of impact we need from the "attacking" midfield presence ; as evidence I offer the goals scored using the present formation compared to last year with the same formation whrn Jones was certainly close to the peak of his powers . I've never used the term "crab" re Jones but if that suggests lack of pace and positive , inventive forward movement , so be it .
Finally , if anyone who starts to look for a successor to Jones after his magnificent service is to be scorned as disrespecting that service , then we must all accept that here is a man whose performance will never wither with age , and who has a right to play unchallenged until a time of his choosing . |  | | |
| Tutte situation? on 20:09 - Mar 6 with 1145 views | NotEyreClue |
| Tutte situation? on 19:05 - Mar 6 by TalkingSutty |
Its impossible to compare Tutte with Jones, look at the service Jonah has given this club. look at the many man of the match awards/player of the season and remember all those goals he scored last season,was it nineteen ?
Now what has Tutte ever done in his two stints at Rochdale to even suggest he will be our next midfield maestro ? The lad is a waif for a start, he has a dodgy tempremant and needs to become a man before he can even be mentioned in the same breath as players like Jonah and Kennedy.
He has done rock all as yet and it cant just be coincidence that a succession of managers deem him not good enough to make the starting eleven on a regular basis. They cant all be wrong.
The misguided fans (minority) who labelled Jonah a crab where proved wrong and i suspect the ones who now assume Tutte could be the new Jonah will also be proved wrong, time will tell !! |
I have no absolutely no idea how you or anyone can already have such a damning opinion on Tutte. How many games has he started this season? I don't see many people on here suggesting that he is the long term answer to our problems but he's certainly an option, especially if Jonah needs a rest (he runs himself into the ground for 90 minutes so it's bound to catch up with him sooner or later). It's almost impossible to assess how good a player is/ could potentially be on the contribution he makes from the bench, which has very rarely been more than 20 minutes this season. |  |
| The modern pioneer of mealy mouthed bollocks. |
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| Tutte situation? on 20:17 - Mar 6 with 1138 views | TalkingSutty |
| Tutte situation? on 20:07 - Mar 6 by pl56 |
Just a few of points on this that have to be challenged .
The suggestion that being a "waif" disqualifies you from being a competitive and effective footballer is clearly false - as evidence I give you one Lionel Messi and the majority of the Barcelona squad . Not saying that Tutte is anywhere near that class - just that the implied generalisation is rubbish .
Not sure where the "dodgy" temperament came from ; the lad had one bust up with Keith Hill and , as we all know , once was often enough for Keith on that score . Since then he's played consistently at Yeovil , and was wanted there , was clearly comfortable working with Steve Eyre , and as far as I'm aware , has been no trouble since signing . No doubt some more "informed" by club gossip may know more than me !
Tutte started the season as a regular under Eyre (not a recommendation , I know ) , and struggled more due to Eyre's lack of balance in his teams , and his obsession with playing Jones in a flat 4-4-2 as a central midfielder . Since then he was out of the picture with Chris Beech (perhaps a recommendation given the disorganisation and results that brought ?) , and is now selected for the match day squad on a regular basis by Coleman .
Yes , I still think Garry Jones no longer has the pace or inventiveness these days to make the sort of impact we need from the "attacking" midfield presence ; as evidence I offer the goals scored using the present formation compared to last year with the same formation whrn Jones was certainly close to the peak of his powers . I've never used the term "crab" re Jones but if that suggests lack of pace and positive , inventive forward movement , so be it .
Finally , if anyone who starts to look for a successor to Jones after his magnificent service is to be scorned as disrespecting that service , then we must all accept that here is a man whose performance will never wither with age , and who has a right to play unchallenged until a time of his choosing . |
Good point in your last paragraph. I disagree with your comments about Jonah not having a positive inventive forward movement, look at the goal we scored at Charlton a couple of weeks ago !
Sorry , i cant be persuaded when it comes to Tuttes performances but what do i know, i am just a average footy fan. Its great we all have different opinions. | | | |
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| Tutte situation? on 20:54 - Mar 6 with 1099 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Tutte situation? on 15:45 - Mar 6 by Daley_Lama |
"As for Tutte, he simply hasn't shown the attributes that Kennedy possesses and delivered upon. All I've seen is a player who takes an age to make a simple pass. He picks up the ball runs sideways (and back again) and then plays a five yard pass."
I remember another midfielder who used to be described in exactly the same way, he got the nickname "The Crab". Wonder what ever happened to him... |
I'm sorry pal I don't buy into this David Tutte is Gary Jones mk II or his long term replacement.
They're both scousers and they both pass the ball sideways alot when they were (are) young. That's where the similarity firmly ends with me. There is nothing set in stone that Tutte will develop into a box-to-box midfielder with an eye for goal. Judging by Tutte's shooting this season he's got a long way to go in that department.
Supporters, and we're all guilty of it, always think a player is better when they're not in the team.
On what basis do people think Tutte should be in the team? It surely can't be his performances so far in a Dale shirt.
In that case what is it?
His performances at Yeovil last season? The fact Yeovil wanted to keep him? He's supposedly the next Gary Jones, despite the fact he hasn't scored and is not a box-to-box player? He played for Man City's youth team? Other teams wanted him? He's really an attacking midfielder? He prefers grannery and we're giving him wholemeal? He prefers dance music and the faux manc P.A guy on matchday keeps playing indie?
Every reason other than the fact that he's not in the team because....well, he doesn't deserve to be based on his performances when he's been in it.
It seems to be the opinion of Eyre, Beech and Coleman. And just to even out the balance of crap and good managers, Hill seemed to form the same opinion.
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| Tutte situation? on 20:57 - Mar 6 with 1090 views | Daley_Lama |
Neither do I Big Dave's Willy, I was simply drawing the comparison to your description of Tutte and how Jones was criticised during parts of his career. | |
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| Tutte situation? on 21:08 - Mar 6 with 1072 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Tutte situation? on 20:57 - Mar 6 by Daley_Lama |
Neither do I Big Dave's Willy, I was simply drawing the comparison to your description of Tutte and how Jones was criticised during parts of his career. |
Yeah, I suppose I did go on a bit. I dropped Philosophy A level for games when I was a kid and I've always had a chip on my shoulder abouth it I think.
Anyway, Simon Hackney. Injury prone crock or wing inigma who will keep us up in a Jimmy Glass stlyee way? He scored a goal against Southport's reserves in July you know!
Discuss | |
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| Tutte situation? on 21:47 - Mar 6 with 1046 views | 442Dale |
It'll be interesting to hear reports from those attended, but GMR had Tutte involved in all our best efforts and the goal. | |
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| Tutte situation? on 21:52 - Mar 6 with 1030 views | D_Alien |
| Tutte situation? on 21:47 - Mar 6 by 442Dale |
It'll be interesting to hear reports from those attended, but GMR had Tutte involved in all our best efforts and the goal. |
Tbh, it wouldn't bother me if Coleman started to really make some waves with the starting XI now. What's to lose?
Tutte for Jonah, Grimes for Symes and get Hackney match fit to replace Adams, who's been a huge disappointment since the bury game (along with others, I know)
I'd even give Twaddle a run out instead of Widdowson |  |
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| Tutte situation? on 21:57 - Mar 6 with 1018 views | 442Dale |
| Tutte situation? on 21:52 - Mar 6 by D_Alien |
Tbh, it wouldn't bother me if Coleman started to really make some waves with the starting XI now. What's to lose?
Tutte for Jonah, Grimes for Symes and get Hackney match fit to replace Adams, who's been a huge disappointment since the bury game (along with others, I know)
I'd even give Twaddle a run out instead of Widdowson |
We have to try something new. If we had someone to play on the opposite wing to Adams (Thompson/Hackney/JLAA/loanee), it'd be worth going 4-4-2 again. Grimes gets to play in a front two, his only really effective role, and finally try the one combination in midfield we've yet to see - Kennedy and Tutte.
There is nothing to lose. | |
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| Tutte situation? on 22:17 - Mar 6 with 993 views | TVOS1907 |
| Tutte situation? on 21:47 - Mar 6 by 442Dale |
It'll be interesting to hear reports from those attended, but GMR had Tutte involved in all our best efforts and the goal. |
Well, he is an ex-City player :) |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Tutte situation? on 22:18 - Mar 6 with 993 views | SalwaDale |
| Tutte situation? on 21:57 - Mar 6 by 442Dale |
We have to try something new. If we had someone to play on the opposite wing to Adams (Thompson/Hackney/JLAA/loanee), it'd be worth going 4-4-2 again. Grimes gets to play in a front two, his only really effective role, and finally try the one combination in midfield we've yet to see - Kennedy and Tutte.
There is nothing to lose. |
Agreed, now is the time for JC to set the wheels in motion on what he wants next season. I would like to see us base the team around Grimes, and if it doesn't work then ship him out as soon as possible.
I think formations etc don't matter too much when you have a team lacking that winning mentality. |  |
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| Tutte situation? on 22:43 - Mar 6 with 956 views | D_Alien |
| Tutte situation? on 22:40 - Mar 6 by 442Dale |
To write off someone who can score goals, no matter how poorly he's played or how bad his attitude was, would be beyond foolish. Like Tutte, let's at least see him in a role which might suit him.
Then send him to Macclesfield if it fails. |
I've heard Coventry need a goalscorer - if he doesn't score a hat-trick every game from now on, we should send him there | |
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| Tutte situation? on 22:46 - Mar 6 with 948 views | TalkingSutty |
| Tutte situation? on 22:40 - Mar 6 by 442Dale |
To write off someone who can score goals, no matter how poorly he's played or how bad his attitude was, would be beyond foolish. Like Tutte, let's at least see him in a role which might suit him.
Then send him to Macclesfield if it fails. |
Well at this level attitude and work rate are key, Grimes is lacking in those areas.
You have probably gathered Tutte and Grimes are not my type of player or character, ive seen enough of them both to last me a lifetime.
They both strike me as two lads who think they are better than they actually are. | | | |
| Tutte situation? on 22:51 - Mar 6 with 929 views | SalwaDale |
| Tutte situation? on 22:46 - Mar 6 by TalkingSutty |
Well at this level attitude and work rate are key, Grimes is lacking in those areas.
You have probably gathered Tutte and Grimes are not my type of player or character, ive seen enough of them both to last me a lifetime.
They both strike me as two lads who think they are better than they actually are. |
I actually agree 100% but sometimes the best managers find a way of working with these players. I don't actually think Tutte is that talented but I can see that Grimes is. The thing I really don't want is him being a peripheral figure at the club. Either our main man - or get shut. | |
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| Tutte situation? on 22:51 - Mar 6 with 927 views | NotEyreClue |
| Tutte situation? on 22:46 - Mar 6 by TalkingSutty |
Well at this level attitude and work rate are key, Grimes is lacking in those areas.
You have probably gathered Tutte and Grimes are not my type of player or character, ive seen enough of them both to last me a lifetime.
They both strike me as two lads who think they are better than they actually are. |
Grimes has been one of our most hard working players under Coleman | |
| The modern pioneer of mealy mouthed bollocks. |
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| Tutte situation? on 22:53 - Mar 6 with 924 views | SalwaDale |
| Tutte situation? on 22:51 - Mar 6 by NotEyreClue |
Grimes has been one of our most hard working players under Coleman |
Really? | |
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| Tutte situation? on 22:55 - Mar 6 with 919 views | TalkingSutty |
| Tutte situation? on 22:51 - Mar 6 by NotEyreClue |
Grimes has been one of our most hard working players under Coleman |
You really believe that ?? Analyse the last few games. | | | |
| Tutte situation? on 22:57 - Mar 6 with 914 views | 442Dale |
| Tutte situation? on 22:53 - Mar 6 by SalwaDale |
Really? |
He's put in far more effort.
We have to put the past behind us, certain players attitudes three months ago are still being used against them. Coleman wouldn't have anyone in the squad he didn't feel was putting everything towards the cause. That should be enough. | |
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