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Over many years of watching Dale, I've often stood on the terraces and wondered if our manager is watching a different game to me. I first started to notice it when Graham Barrow was manager but last night I stood on Sandy Lane and shook my head in disbelief at some of the things I was watching and wondered how JM didn't see the same things as me.
Practically every fan around me was in disbelief that Devonte Rodney played 86 minutes for example. Why didn't our manager see he was offering nothing and practically giving the ball away every time he got it? Harvey Gilmour was the same. He lost possession every time he tried a forward pass, he was outmuscled constantly and yet he played all game.
We continued to hoof the ball upfield towards Kairo Mitchell, yet at no stage did we give him any support or play a second striker. What did we expect him to do? There is no point him flicking it on, he's upfront on his own ffs. If that is our only form of attack, which it clearly was, get somebody around him and try to play off the second ball. Even when Hendo came on, he didn't play as a striker, he played as number 10 and so nothing changed.
No Plan B whatsoever but it just frustrates me when our manager sees things so differently to the fans on the terraces.
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Why Do Managers See Different? on 14:06 - Feb 8 with 3325 views
Why Do Managers See Different? on 09:33 - Feb 9 by fitzochris
Easy to say in hindsight. I doubt you’d have posted this had we won yesterday, for example.
I may not, however I believe my point is correct, and I do not believe Jim McNulty is a good manager, any more than Simon Gauge is a good Co Chairman. Both are stubborn individuals and Gauge would rather support his manager despite his continual deployment of negative anti entertainment football. McNulty has made me lose any sense of expectation that we may win. Consistency is non existent - you might as well draw lots to decide our results. You will no doubt cite the Yeovil result as counter evidence; but that would ignore the circumstances surrounding Yeovil, a squad demoralised by the departure of a key player on the eve of the match, a squad looking forward to a week off to reset after a run of poor results, a squad not looking forward to playing on our sodden pitch. The Yeovil result was at least as much to do with Yeovil as it was Dale. The Oldham and Ebbsfleet performances reveal more, if you have resolve and determination to compete, McNulty ball will fail.
If you don’t like hindsight, here’s a prediction, we won’t get promoted being managed by Jim McNulty. I’m personally sick to death with this division but I’m even more sick to death of the acceptance many have for where we have found ourselves through mismanagement on and off the pitch.
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Why Do Managers See Different? on 11:10 - Feb 9 with 2651 views
Why Do Managers See Different? on 10:38 - Feb 9 by Rodingdale
I may not, however I believe my point is correct, and I do not believe Jim McNulty is a good manager, any more than Simon Gauge is a good Co Chairman. Both are stubborn individuals and Gauge would rather support his manager despite his continual deployment of negative anti entertainment football. McNulty has made me lose any sense of expectation that we may win. Consistency is non existent - you might as well draw lots to decide our results. You will no doubt cite the Yeovil result as counter evidence; but that would ignore the circumstances surrounding Yeovil, a squad demoralised by the departure of a key player on the eve of the match, a squad looking forward to a week off to reset after a run of poor results, a squad not looking forward to playing on our sodden pitch. The Yeovil result was at least as much to do with Yeovil as it was Dale. The Oldham and Ebbsfleet performances reveal more, if you have resolve and determination to compete, McNulty ball will fail.
If you don’t like hindsight, here’s a prediction, we won’t get promoted being managed by Jim McNulty. I’m personally sick to death with this division but I’m even more sick to death of the acceptance many have for where we have found ourselves through mismanagement on and off the pitch.
You’ve made a lot of assumptions towards the end of that post about the mindset of many of our supporters.
I don’t think anyone is accepting of where we are as a club right now. The litany of off-field decisions that may or may not have led us here are all well documented. I don’t think you will find anyone who knows me personally, say anything other than how vociferously I shouted about a lot of this, often to my own detriment.
However, I don’t blow hot and cold. I’m reacting game by game, like everyone else, but my overall assessment is that we are currently eighth (with games in hand) and in a quarter-final of a decent trophy. We are on the cusp of something, so I’m not going to get hysterical just yet. If we go on to fluff this advantageous position we are currently in, then my assessment will change, obviously.
I will also add that I agree that the past two performances have been way short of what is acceptable, in my opinion. Again, if it continues, then we aren’t going to go on to achieve anything this season.
But it’s not fair to use the Yeovil game as an outlier for your argument. Their players wouldn’t have known what the pitch was like until they stepped on it. If anything, our players should’ve felt the apprehension worse.
I think we need to guard against collective arrogance creeping in too. We can’t be too dismissive of the standard of the level we are at. Certainly Division 4 in the 80s wasn’t much better week in, week out. That’s not me saying we had no right to beat Ebbsfleet, because we really should have done, but a lot of teams at this level are a lot more professional in terms of preparation and the like than they are given credit for. I found that out last season when speaking to operatives at these clubs. It cannot simply be dismissed as a “shit league”. We don’t want to start sounding like Oldham fans, do we? 😉
Why Do Managers See Different? on 11:10 - Feb 9 by fitzochris
You’ve made a lot of assumptions towards the end of that post about the mindset of many of our supporters.
I don’t think anyone is accepting of where we are as a club right now. The litany of off-field decisions that may or may not have led us here are all well documented. I don’t think you will find anyone who knows me personally, say anything other than how vociferously I shouted about a lot of this, often to my own detriment.
However, I don’t blow hot and cold. I’m reacting game by game, like everyone else, but my overall assessment is that we are currently eighth (with games in hand) and in a quarter-final of a decent trophy. We are on the cusp of something, so I’m not going to get hysterical just yet. If we go on to fluff this advantageous position we are currently in, then my assessment will change, obviously.
I will also add that I agree that the past two performances have been way short of what is acceptable, in my opinion. Again, if it continues, then we aren’t going to go on to achieve anything this season.
But it’s not fair to use the Yeovil game as an outlier for your argument. Their players wouldn’t have known what the pitch was like until they stepped on it. If anything, our players should’ve felt the apprehension worse.
I think we need to guard against collective arrogance creeping in too. We can’t be too dismissive of the standard of the level we are at. Certainly Division 4 in the 80s wasn’t much better week in, week out. That’s not me saying we had no right to beat Ebbsfleet, because we really should have done, but a lot of teams at this level are a lot more professional in terms of preparation and the like than they are given credit for. I found that out last season when speaking to operatives at these clubs. It cannot simply be dismissed as a “shit league”. We don’t want to start sounding like Oldham fans, do we? 😉
Ha ha, no hysteria here! On the game by game point, you are right, there is absolutely no point getting carried away with a win, because a loss or a poor draw is just as likely to follow. McNulty’s team don’t do consistency or build momentum. The NL isn’t a shit league, it’s Division 5 - but being in it means we have to qualify to get into the FACup, we replace the League Cup with the FAT, we get to play in the U21 cup whatever it’s called. The product is devalued, the fixture list becomes confused and congested. Witness record low attendances. Couple that with McNulty ball… it’s rubbish. His run into the pitch to applaud the Sandy was a particularly low. He’s somehow deluding himself into believing his own nonsensical utterances. No Jim, Ebbsfleet we’re not a good side, he tried to have us believe Fylde were last season. There’s a hype around Jim at Forums and his post match interviews are frankly Trumpian. But there’s a huge difference between arrogance and expecting better. Arrogance to me is Jim trying to justify his poor performance - he clearly thinks fans are unjustified in being critical, I wonder how he’d get in with say Pat Murphy asking the questions? But Jim and Gauge see criticism - as not supporting. I personally expect more honesty openness and commitment to achieving better, not the usual drone of excuses we are fed.
I’ve long given up on Gauge and McNulty being able to change, I’ve posted many times to that effect. Eventually the Ogdens will take proper control and ring the changes, but until we do we’re stuck in this doom loop.
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Why Do Managers See Different? on 12:15 - Feb 9 with 2506 views
Why Do Managers See Different? on 12:06 - Feb 9 by Rodingdale
Ha ha, no hysteria here! On the game by game point, you are right, there is absolutely no point getting carried away with a win, because a loss or a poor draw is just as likely to follow. McNulty’s team don’t do consistency or build momentum. The NL isn’t a shit league, it’s Division 5 - but being in it means we have to qualify to get into the FACup, we replace the League Cup with the FAT, we get to play in the U21 cup whatever it’s called. The product is devalued, the fixture list becomes confused and congested. Witness record low attendances. Couple that with McNulty ball… it’s rubbish. His run into the pitch to applaud the Sandy was a particularly low. He’s somehow deluding himself into believing his own nonsensical utterances. No Jim, Ebbsfleet we’re not a good side, he tried to have us believe Fylde were last season. There’s a hype around Jim at Forums and his post match interviews are frankly Trumpian. But there’s a huge difference between arrogance and expecting better. Arrogance to me is Jim trying to justify his poor performance - he clearly thinks fans are unjustified in being critical, I wonder how he’d get in with say Pat Murphy asking the questions? But Jim and Gauge see criticism - as not supporting. I personally expect more honesty openness and commitment to achieving better, not the usual drone of excuses we are fed.
I’ve long given up on Gauge and McNulty being able to change, I’ve posted many times to that effect. Eventually the Ogdens will take proper control and ring the changes, but until we do we’re stuck in this doom loop.
The definition of madness etc., etc., etc.
Much of the post-match chat we had consisted of our inability to beat low-lying teams, as we struggled similarly last season, and consequently how we could help deliver on Project 5000?
It is probably easier to sell Trump tee shirts in Greenland.
Why Do Managers See Different? on 12:15 - Feb 9 by judd
The definition of madness etc., etc., etc.
Much of the post-match chat we had consisted of our inability to beat low-lying teams, as we struggled similarly last season, and consequently how we could help deliver on Project 5000?
It is probably easier to sell Trump tee shirts in Greenland.
That opening line is something that really needs focusing on. That we aren’t changing formation to at least make the opposition think differently is infuriating.
Imagine if the last two games we did go to a 4-3-3 or a 4-4-2, or even a 3-5-2, then Oldham and Ebbsfleet would have had to react accordingly. As it was they could remain in their positions knowing the only thing that would change is the personnel.
That tactical inflexibility is holding us back, no matter what type of football we play.
Jim McNulty will not change his style of play, same as any other manager wouldn't, based on the opinions of supporters. Yet he nor his assistant Kevin Gibbins appear to see it?
We're stuck with this until the Ogdens realise the cheap option isn't going to get us anywhere. Oh and in that, get rid of Gauge. Buy his shares and rid the club of him. He hired Stockdale and unforgivably allowed him to sign awful players for silly money, he hired Bentley and he gave the job to McNulty (Who, may I add, has been part of the coaching team for the last 4 years under both of those previous managers...). Cheap options every time which in turn cost the club money and its Football League status. People claiming he saved the club by putting his own money in... If he'd listened to the people around him that knew how to run a football club he would probably still have 500k in his pocket and we'd still be a Football League team.
I don't think there's any pressure on McNulty from the board, I honestly don't. So I think we're going to be served up this utterly boring dross week after week for a long time to come.
Why Do Managers See Different? on 09:58 - Feb 10 by Daleaholic
Jim McNulty will not change his style of play, same as any other manager wouldn't, based on the opinions of supporters. Yet he nor his assistant Kevin Gibbins appear to see it?
We're stuck with this until the Ogdens realise the cheap option isn't going to get us anywhere. Oh and in that, get rid of Gauge. Buy his shares and rid the club of him. He hired Stockdale and unforgivably allowed him to sign awful players for silly money, he hired Bentley and he gave the job to McNulty (Who, may I add, has been part of the coaching team for the last 4 years under both of those previous managers...). Cheap options every time which in turn cost the club money and its Football League status. People claiming he saved the club by putting his own money in... If he'd listened to the people around him that knew how to run a football club he would probably still have 500k in his pocket and we'd still be a Football League team.
I don't think there's any pressure on McNulty from the board, I honestly don't. So I think we're going to be served up this utterly boring dross week after week for a long time to come.
Jim needs a director of football to put rockets up his jacksie.
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Why Do Managers See Different? on 20:47 - Feb 10 with 1535 views
Why Do Managers See Different? on 11:52 - Feb 10 by watford_dale
Jim needs a director of football to put rockets up his jacksie.
What I find frustrating is we’ve just had a fans forum but in the games leading up to it we’ve put in some decent performances so this debate on tactics isn’t raised much. Same as last season when we beat Wealdstone at home. Afterwards we then revert to some boring abject performances again.
As with a lot of managers nowadays Jim is a philosophy manager where sticking to the philosophy is seems to be priority no matter what the state of the game. So many games this season and last have just meandered along with very little attempt to change thing apart swapping like for like. And even going a goal down such as at Dagenham the same approach continues with very little urgency to get back into the game.
There been a lot of talk of total options but all the players have been signed to fit into the one philosophy so there isn’t the big target man to throw onto try and get back level. It’s just swapping like for like. Philosophy over results. It’s crazy but it seems to be norm at the moment.
I’d love us to get someone like Dean Brennan at Barnet who seems to be one manager that plays to win.
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Why Do Managers See Different? on 01:02 - Feb 11 with 1382 views
There's been a fair few post-match interviews by Jim where he states "performance" is the main thing for him, irrespective of result. He doesn't state that after the awful performance v Ebbsfleet and dances round the awful performance v Oldham. Unconvincing, Greg.
It's been mentioned in other posts. I don't like the guy but his apology for his team providing rubbish, with a team that was awful, is honest. He aims for change, apologises to travelling fans and takes responsibility. Dale fans travelled from Malta to watch that aberration v Oldham. Our manager gives them nothing. Speaks volumes, Greg.
[Post edited 11 Feb 1:30]
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Why Do Managers See Different? on 12:48 - Feb 11 with 1127 views
The problem is that you can't manage the game. I sometimes think that good players are coached to do things that do not come naturally to them instead of selecting good players who do what they do and to try and mold those attributes into a team. The idea that you can put 11 individuals on a pitch to kick a ball against 11 other players and control the outcome with some sort of " system" is a nonsense. Especially when players cannot really carry out what you want them to do in any given situation because there is another player trying his best to stop them. Managers of old simply put their best 11 footballers onto the pitch in their best positions and let them get in with it... I get the impression that modern managers do exactly the opposite, they pick players to fit a system that they have seen on TV they employ players to fit that system, they coach them to play in that system at which point plan "B" becomes impossible. Brian Clough had a system and told his players what their jobs were, striker.. score goals... goalkeepers stop the opposition from scoring...defenders tackle and head the ball away from the goal...wingers stay with your heels on the line... midfielders, feed the wingers...simple... no recycling play nonsense, no mumbo jumbo, just simple instructions repeated often...... Its a simple game, the winner scores more goals than the loser...so make sure you can score goals, lots of them. Goals are what fans want to see, not endless passing. Shots not recycling for a better opportunity, not tippy tappy around their own penalty area, not fullback / wingers who are only average at both, not strikers who dont strike and can't head a ball or trap a bag of cement.. Goals and more goals thats all that counts.. if we won every home game 5-4 there would be 1000s more at every game...not scoring twice in a week at home is just pitiful, not scoring against Ebbsfleet should be illegal. Low block, high block, false number 9s and all the rest is just trying to make something simple seem like an intellectual challenge for those who are not party to the inane nonsense of UEFA coaching manuals. Encouraged by the BBC and a whole raft of wannabee managers who want their 5 minutes of fame and half a million quid a year at a Premiership club with a 3 year contract. It even infected Keith Hill eventually and BBM relegated us with quasi intellectual BS that got him a dream job and never mind the consequences.. I am afraid that McNulty is BBM Mk2, swap the Brogue for a hint of Scouse and the result is the same, word salad and not enough goals..No one watches football because they enjoy watching toothless 0-0 draws or 0-1 losses, Its about goals, it always was and always will be.
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Why Do Managers See Different? on 17:43 - Feb 11 with 759 views
Why Do Managers See Different? on 20:38 - Feb 11 by EllDale
Going off comments during the game tonight is it worth giving Corey Edwards an extended run,
Yes he did well along with many others....Kelly in goal , Akpan, Horne.......Jili had a great game till hauled off for protection.
Burger took a big hit from Hubner (who should have walked, eventually getting the equaliser and pen). Looked in pain. He had done really well too, proper tidy player.
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Why Do Managers See Different? on 21:54 - Feb 11 with 444 views
Why Do Managers See Different? on 21:30 - Feb 11 by Yorkshire_Dale
Yes he did well along with many others....Kelly in goal , Akpan, Horne.......Jili had a great game till hauled off for protection.
Burger took a big hit from Hubner (who should have walked, eventually getting the equaliser and pen). Looked in pain. He had done really well too, proper tidy player.
I thought Kelly has been great this season in this mickey mouse cup, Ferguson was good tonight as well. I think that's the biggest loss from not progressing, lack of game time for fringe and young players
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