| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station 10:02 - Jul 25 with 18089 views | wroughtironron |
How wonderful that diversity and integration hasn't reached certain parts of the Town |  | | |  |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 21:43 - Jul 27 with 3935 views | 999Dale |
And to think Paul Waugh went straight to the family involved.
Disgraceful. |  | | |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 22:58 - Jul 27 with 3768 views | nordenblue |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 21:08 - Jul 27 by tony_roch975 |
Not particularly.
This looks like an excerpt from (official?) static CCTV footage whereas the original broadcast footage was from a private mobile phone which may not have captured all the incident. Even this footage doesn't show the start of the contact between the police officers and members of the public.
The question was never whether the officers had or hadn't been attacked but whether, whatever the provocation, their response was proportionate/professional etc |
Absolutely garbage....."Proportionality requires that any use of force correspond to the risk of harm the officer encounters,"..... they had already encountered such harm, the offenders clearly thought punching a female officer square in the face was also fair game, what happened to "proportionate' actions from their side, hopefully folk are waking up to the clear slanted bullshit we're consistently being fed by the media. [Post edited 27 Jul 23:00]
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| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 22:59 - Jul 27 with 3774 views | D_Alien |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 21:43 - Jul 27 by 999Dale |
And to think Paul Waugh went straight to the family involved.
Disgraceful. |
They're his constituents, the police involved aren't
His actions helped calm the racial tensions. If you're looking to stoke them up, you've come to the wrong place. Those involved in the initial attack on police looking to arrest them will receive sentences in line with their criminality |  |
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| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 23:47 - Jul 27 with 3692 views | sxdale |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 22:59 - Jul 27 by D_Alien |
They're his constituents, the police involved aren't
His actions helped calm the racial tensions. If you're looking to stoke them up, you've come to the wrong place. Those involved in the initial attack on police looking to arrest them will receive sentences in line with their criminality |
999's intention was so obvious that I genuinely thought nobshaker had got himself another username, disgraceful !! | | | |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 07:31 - Jul 28 with 3510 views | TalkingSutty |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 22:58 - Jul 27 by nordenblue |
Absolutely garbage....."Proportionality requires that any use of force correspond to the risk of harm the officer encounters,"..... they had already encountered such harm, the offenders clearly thought punching a female officer square in the face was also fair game, what happened to "proportionate' actions from their side, hopefully folk are waking up to the clear slanted bullshit we're consistently being fed by the media. [Post edited 27 Jul 23:00]
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At the time the original snippet of video became public it was obvious there was more to this incident, that's why i was surprised that the Rochdale MP was so quick to issue his one sided statement. A police woman with a broken nose and two other officers receiving hospital treatment tells you that there's been a very violent altercation. If you attack armed police officers in most other countries you'd probably be shot, especially if there's a fear that the officer could lose his weapon ( that's in the training manual). Police officers shoot to stop, they aim for the chest area, the vital organs. There's no training to start shooting for the arms, legs, foot etc, thats not a option unless things have changed recently. I carried a firearm for three years and that was how it was then so i'm speaking from experience. If it's so serious to deploy your weapon then it's a life or death situation and you aim to 'stop'. If they have to deploy and fire their weapons you will probably die. Thats how serious this incident is, especially at a International Airport. There was no justification for the family to start assaulting police officers anyway.
I'm also still struggling to justify the officer kicking the guy in the head and stamping on him when he's prone on the ground with other officers in attendance, red mist isn't a excuse as a police officer i'm afraid, especially a highly trained firearms officer. If there's an immediate threat to life then armed police officers are trained to 'stop' that person with their weapon, not by kicking them in the head. There wasn't a immediate threat to life at that point because the fella is prone on the floor so i think he will be struggling to explain his actions personally. You can use reasonable force in relation to the circumstances you are dealing with but you have to be able to justify it. Can he justify his actions at that moment in time? I think the officer is toast and will lose his job, probably be charged with assault alongside those who attacked the officers. Anyway, there will be a full investigation and there's plenty of evidence. There might be more that we dont know about, including verbal communication and intelligence that the officers in attendance had received prior to attending the incident. The violent reaction to the police and total lack of respect by the family during the incident wasn't normal though, it could have ended much worse than it actually did for them. [Post edited 28 Jul 9:07]
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| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 08:07 - Jul 28 with 3451 views | NorthernDale |
I think the officer may be removed from the firearms role, yes his reaction in kicking the man in the head was totally inappropriate, but hopefully he will be warned about his future actions and allowed to keep his job.
The new video puts the events into more context. | | | |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 08:30 - Jul 28 with 3418 views | TalkingSutty |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 08:07 - Jul 28 by NorthernDale |
I think the officer may be removed from the firearms role, yes his reaction in kicking the man in the head was totally inappropriate, but hopefully he will be warned about his future actions and allowed to keep his job.
The new video puts the events into more context. |
GMP don't warn officers if they are found guilty of kicking members of public in the head, they sack them and they are then subjected to criminal proccedings if the CPS deem it appropriate. As i stated previously the officer and those present will all be interviewed/ investigated and maybe there will be something to justify the action that the officer took. Fists and boots fly when you're dealing with violent situations but kicking somebody in the head when they are on the floor and stamping on them isn't something I've ever seen a police officer do. If you can justify your actions as reasonable force in relation to the immediate threat posed then you can do what you want, it's up to you to justify it though and that's what this officer will now have to do. Maybe he thought he was dealing with a terrorist threat, a person who could have had a explosive belt strapped to him which he was going to detonate? If that's the case a kick to the head and stamping still wouldn't have justified his actions because that's not what he's trained to do for that scenario. Deploying his firearm and issuing instructions and a warning would have been the correct course of action though if a terrorist threat was part of his thought process. Not sure how he will justify his actions but good luck to him. You don't get paid any extra money for putting yourself forward as a firearms officer and you get to meet and deal with the most violent and ruthless criminals walking the streets. This officer will be the type that we all need to protect us but unfortunately it appears that somethings gone wrong, the family involved in this shouldn't be held up as the innocent victims neither because they obviously weren't. [Post edited 28 Jul 9:02]
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| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 11:01 - Jul 28 with 3232 views | D_Alien |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 08:30 - Jul 28 by TalkingSutty |
GMP don't warn officers if they are found guilty of kicking members of public in the head, they sack them and they are then subjected to criminal proccedings if the CPS deem it appropriate. As i stated previously the officer and those present will all be interviewed/ investigated and maybe there will be something to justify the action that the officer took. Fists and boots fly when you're dealing with violent situations but kicking somebody in the head when they are on the floor and stamping on them isn't something I've ever seen a police officer do. If you can justify your actions as reasonable force in relation to the immediate threat posed then you can do what you want, it's up to you to justify it though and that's what this officer will now have to do. Maybe he thought he was dealing with a terrorist threat, a person who could have had a explosive belt strapped to him which he was going to detonate? If that's the case a kick to the head and stamping still wouldn't have justified his actions because that's not what he's trained to do for that scenario. Deploying his firearm and issuing instructions and a warning would have been the correct course of action though if a terrorist threat was part of his thought process. Not sure how he will justify his actions but good luck to him. You don't get paid any extra money for putting yourself forward as a firearms officer and you get to meet and deal with the most violent and ruthless criminals walking the streets. This officer will be the type that we all need to protect us but unfortunately it appears that somethings gone wrong, the family involved in this shouldn't be held up as the innocent victims neither because they obviously weren't. [Post edited 28 Jul 9:02]
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I completely get what you're saying, and appreciate your first hand experience
When you refer to the "family", i assume you mean those at the airport incident. When Paul Waugh visited the family at home before issuing his statement, his immediate concern was to defuse a potential powder keg within and between communities. The main point he made was that the family had no wish to associate themselves with extremists or ongoing violence. Waugh did the right thing, and did it well imo
The underlying issue here is, why the younger generations aren't being socialised by their elders to respect the law and the wider communities in which we all have to live | |
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| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 11:18 - Jul 28 with 3186 views | robshaker |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 11:01 - Jul 28 by D_Alien |
I completely get what you're saying, and appreciate your first hand experience
When you refer to the "family", i assume you mean those at the airport incident. When Paul Waugh visited the family at home before issuing his statement, his immediate concern was to defuse a potential powder keg within and between communities. The main point he made was that the family had no wish to associate themselves with extremists or ongoing violence. Waugh did the right thing, and did it well imo
The underlying issue here is, why the younger generations aren't being socialised by their elders to respect the law and the wider communities in which we all have to live |
'The underlying issue here is, why the younger generations aren't being socialised by their elders to respect the law and the wider communities in which we all have to live'
couldn't agree more young man!
how is Waugh pronounced?? | | | |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 11:30 - Jul 28 with 3143 views | nordenblue |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 11:18 - Jul 28 by robshaker |
'The underlying issue here is, why the younger generations aren't being socialised by their elders to respect the law and the wider communities in which we all have to live'
couldn't agree more young man!
how is Waugh pronounced?? |
Isn't it pronounced like 'war" | | | |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 11:57 - Jul 28 with 3099 views | robshaker |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 11:30 - Jul 28 by nordenblue |
Isn't it pronounced like 'war" |
i was thinking either woff, whoah or warr
i saw him on tv other week im sure he was introduced as 'wo' but didnt catch it | | | |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 12:08 - Jul 28 with 3089 views | wroughtironron |
Those lads throwing heavy punches at the Police were giving it everything - surely they should be in Paris representing the Pakistan Boxing Team ? | | | |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 12:25 - Jul 28 with 3048 views | D_Alien |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 11:30 - Jul 28 by nordenblue |
Isn't it pronounced like 'war" |
It's like the end of "quinoa"
Or as those who disagree with him might say, "For quinoa"
* not bad considering i'm only 17...
(Apols nb, this was intended for robbo) [Post edited 28 Jul 12:29]
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| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 12:53 - Jul 28 with 2958 views | TalkingSutty |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 11:01 - Jul 28 by D_Alien |
I completely get what you're saying, and appreciate your first hand experience
When you refer to the "family", i assume you mean those at the airport incident. When Paul Waugh visited the family at home before issuing his statement, his immediate concern was to defuse a potential powder keg within and between communities. The main point he made was that the family had no wish to associate themselves with extremists or ongoing violence. Waugh did the right thing, and did it well imo
The underlying issue here is, why the younger generations aren't being socialised by their elders to respect the law and the wider communities in which we all have to live |
There was only one family involved in the incident, so yes those at the airport incident. Waugh made no mention at the time of the three police officers who needed hospital treatment, he showed no concern or made no mention of their welfare. I don't think his initial response was appropriate at all but accept you see it differently. When it comes to younger generations not being socialised by their elders that's something that applies not only to the Asian community unfortunately. In a lot of cases you look at the offender and look at the parents and then you know, skin colour is irrelevant. The majority of youngsters are great, i don't think those from a Asian background are worse than any other. The family themselves had just been involved in extreme violence and assaulted three police officers so their appeal to the community was hardly heartfelt. The MP has rowed back on his initial response just like the BBC and other media outlets. Let's hear him publicly castigate the offenders from this family when they are found guilty of probably affray and police assault in court. The evidence is there for all to see and its damning. I'm willing to bet he will make no comment. [Post edited 28 Jul 13:06]
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| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 13:09 - Jul 28 with 2925 views | D_Alien |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 12:53 - Jul 28 by TalkingSutty |
There was only one family involved in the incident, so yes those at the airport incident. Waugh made no mention at the time of the three police officers who needed hospital treatment, he showed no concern or made no mention of their welfare. I don't think his initial response was appropriate at all but accept you see it differently. When it comes to younger generations not being socialised by their elders that's something that applies not only to the Asian community unfortunately. In a lot of cases you look at the offender and look at the parents and then you know, skin colour is irrelevant. The majority of youngsters are great, i don't think those from a Asian background are worse than any other. The family themselves had just been involved in extreme violence and assaulted three police officers so their appeal to the community was hardly heartfelt. The MP has rowed back on his initial response just like the BBC and other media outlets. Let's hear him publicly castigate the offenders from this family when they are found guilty of probably affray and police assault in court. The evidence is there for all to see and its damning. I'm willing to bet he will make no comment. [Post edited 28 Jul 13:06]
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Completely agree it's not confined to skin colour
I wouldn't say Waugh has rowed back since i stand by what i said about his immediate requirement in the heat of the situation - regarding his own constituents. The BBC have, but no surprise there
The reason why it's not a "skin colour" issue is because white criminals resisting arrest in the same way might well have seen the officer involved reacting the way he did
It's the extremists trying to make it a racist issue: Waugh's words ensured that tensions in the town didn't have petrol poured on them. Andy Burnham gave a more rounded view, having seen all the footage at an early stage, but he's not MP for Rochdale
Edit: i was referring to those members of the family at the airport, and those he visited at their home [Post edited 28 Jul 13:10]
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| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 13:30 - Jul 28 with 2879 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
Must admit I feel sorry for Mr Waugh, 3 weeks into a new job & he gets landed with a sh**show like this. |  | | |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 13:55 - Jul 28 with 2810 views | tony_roch975 |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 12:53 - Jul 28 by TalkingSutty |
There was only one family involved in the incident, so yes those at the airport incident. Waugh made no mention at the time of the three police officers who needed hospital treatment, he showed no concern or made no mention of their welfare. I don't think his initial response was appropriate at all but accept you see it differently. When it comes to younger generations not being socialised by their elders that's something that applies not only to the Asian community unfortunately. In a lot of cases you look at the offender and look at the parents and then you know, skin colour is irrelevant. The majority of youngsters are great, i don't think those from a Asian background are worse than any other. The family themselves had just been involved in extreme violence and assaulted three police officers so their appeal to the community was hardly heartfelt. The MP has rowed back on his initial response just like the BBC and other media outlets. Let's hear him publicly castigate the offenders from this family when they are found guilty of probably affray and police assault in court. The evidence is there for all to see and its damning. I'm willing to bet he will make no comment. [Post edited 28 Jul 13:06]
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You make some fair comments and I agree with you & DA that skin colour doesn't determine youth criminality but it isn't true Paul Waugh's comments were all biased against the police or lacking concern. Here are some of his comments:-
Parliament 24/7
"Our police face a very difficult job everyday in keeping us safe"
X 25/7
"The police have said that while trying to arrest a suspect, three of their officers were attacked. They said that one officer suffered a broken nose and all three needed hospital treatment."
Facebook 25/7
"I also asked the Assistant Chief Constable to pass on my thoughts and concern for the female police officer injured in the run up to this incident....There is a wider background and context to this incident which will be explored by the Independent Office for Police Conduct and it’s important not to rush to judgment based on social media clips."
X 27/7
"Yesterday's meeting in Rochdale made clear that this is a community that strongly believes in the rule of law, that the criminal justice system should follow the evidence wherever it leads, and that offenders should be punished appropriately."
Perhaps it's more about what selection the media make of someone's comments. Overall I share DA's view that Waugh has done well in attempting to defuse the situation whilst rightly representing his constituents. | |
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| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 13:59 - Jul 28 with 2805 views | TalkingSutty |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 13:09 - Jul 28 by D_Alien |
Completely agree it's not confined to skin colour
I wouldn't say Waugh has rowed back since i stand by what i said about his immediate requirement in the heat of the situation - regarding his own constituents. The BBC have, but no surprise there
The reason why it's not a "skin colour" issue is because white criminals resisting arrest in the same way might well have seen the officer involved reacting the way he did
It's the extremists trying to make it a racist issue: Waugh's words ensured that tensions in the town didn't have petrol poured on them. Andy Burnham gave a more rounded view, having seen all the footage at an early stage, but he's not MP for Rochdale
Edit: i was referring to those members of the family at the airport, and those he visited at their home [Post edited 28 Jul 13:10]
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Thanks for that. I think we can all agree that it was a incident that didn't need to escalate to the degree that it did. The officers were called to a incident and were subjected to a frenzied attack while carrying out their duties, it went downhill very quickly from there. Airports are the wrong place to start attacking police officers, security is on high alert as it is. Anyway, let's see how this all pans out. As i stated earlier, i'm struggling to explain why the officer did what he did but would doubt it was anything to do with skin colour. There are rogue cops who don't belong in the job, same as any other profession..doctors, nurses, teachers etc. I suspect he had a shed burst having seen a female police officer being assaulted, that's something that doesn't sit well at all with police officers. [Post edited 28 Jul 14:06]
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| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 14:02 - Jul 28 with 2795 views | 49thseason |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 13:30 - Jul 28 by Plattyswrinklynuts |
Must admit I feel sorry for Mr Waugh, 3 weeks into a new job & he gets landed with a sh**show like this. |
Hmmmm, not my MP but hopefully he will be learning very quickly that events like this are never what they appear to be at first sight and be much more circumspect in his actions until a full enquiry has been completed. Anyone who thinks its a good idea to attack someone carrying a gun needs psychiatric help. The guns are there for a purpose and those that carry them will use them to protect the innocent passengers minding their own business and themselves if neccessary.
Airports are a target-rich environment for terrorists and no place for idiots and stupidity. Whoever started this episode has none of the filters that most sensible people rely on to go about their business without causing " situations" . I cannot imagine the stress levels that the armed police at airports and similar venues must have when something kicks off. If the person causing trouble isnt smart enough to figure that out, they certainly shouldn't be allowed onto an aeroplane ever again.
The only fortunate thing is that everyone is still alive to tell the tale, there are many airports around the world where attacking a policeman would have resulted in dead people being flown home in wooden boxes and no questions asked. |  | | |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 14:38 - Jul 28 with 2738 views | SuddenLad |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 13:30 - Jul 28 by Plattyswrinklynuts |
Must admit I feel sorry for Mr Waugh, 3 weeks into a new job & he gets landed with a sh**show like this. |
I don't feel sorry for him. He was far too quick to condemn and lacked a balanced response. Too concerned with chasing the popular vote. It showed him as naive and gullible. Poor show. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 15:20 - Jul 28 with 2651 views | 442Dale |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 14:38 - Jul 28 by SuddenLad |
I don't feel sorry for him. He was far too quick to condemn and lacked a balanced response. Too concerned with chasing the popular vote. It showed him as naive and gullible. Poor show. |
With regards to liaising with constituents and looking to reduce tension and future issues, what could have been done differently? |  |
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| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 17:13 - Aug 7 with 1993 views | wroughtironron |
A 58 year old bloke involved in the Southport riots pleaded guilty to punching a Police Officer today and got 3 years for it.
The Rochdale lads who caused multiple injuries to the Police at Manchester Airport might be a bit concerned (but then again, they might not) | | | |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 17:39 - Aug 7 with 1864 views | sxdale |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 17:13 - Aug 7 by wroughtironron |
A 58 year old bloke involved in the Southport riots pleaded guilty to punching a Police Officer today and got 3 years for it.
The Rochdale lads who caused multiple injuries to the Police at Manchester Airport might be a bit concerned (but then again, they might not) |
And those just stop oil activists who organised the M25 protests but hit nobody got 5 years, go figure. | | | |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 22:09 - Aug 7 with 1463 views | love_the_dale |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 11:18 - Jul 28 by robshaker |
'The underlying issue here is, why the younger generations aren't being socialised by their elders to respect the law and the wider communities in which we all have to live'
couldn't agree more young man!
how is Waugh pronounced?? |
According to the Rochdale Edwin Waugh Dialect.Society., the renowned 19th century Lancashie dialect writer and poet, Edwin Waugh, who was born in Rochade, would have pronounced it"Woff". [Post edited 8 Aug 9:47]
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| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 10:32 - Aug 8 with 1099 views | turnthescrew |
| Demonstrations outside Rochdale Police Station on 17:39 - Aug 7 by sxdale |
And those just stop oil activists who organised the M25 protests but hit nobody got 5 years, go figure. |
And they deserved every single day of it. Just like the clowns who destroy and deface works of art and public buildings. They should also be made to pay for the repairs. | | | |
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