| Tonight's AGM 18:13 - Dec 21 with 17926 views | 100notout |
Won't be able to make it tonight. Hopefully there will be plenty of questions asked from shareholders and informative answers provided and challenged where appropriate. |  |
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| Tonight's AGM on 10:58 - Dec 23 with 3439 views | scooby |
Not a fan of further shares going out to fans, I said at the time that this would make it harder to sell the club. Surely, as this was even mentioned that an investor wants 70+ percentage, this is just making it more convoluted? No issues if it was just to the trust, but it’s a no from me to offer fans again. | | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 11:08 - Dec 23 with 3400 views | nordenblue |
| Tonight's AGM on 10:58 - Dec 23 by scooby |
Not a fan of further shares going out to fans, I said at the time that this would make it harder to sell the club. Surely, as this was even mentioned that an investor wants 70+ percentage, this is just making it more convoluted? No issues if it was just to the trust, but it’s a no from me to offer fans again. |
That's what I'm thinking, the board have already said the fact the distribution of previous shares currently makes a takeover of the club more difficult whilst offering shares for sale to potentially an even wider audience... its a sticky one as we clearly do need an influx of cash sharpish. | | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 11:11 - Dec 23 with 3379 views | 100notout |
| Tonight's AGM on 03:17 - Dec 23 by TalkingSutty |
One big thing that i took out of the AGM is that the club is now breaking even financially, the Chairman stated that to the shareholders. Probably just me but I was under the impression we were losing about £1 milion every year. If you then factor in we own the stadium then that makes the club an attractive proposition for investors.There should be no talk about losing the club under those circumstances and at a time when we are supposedly desperate for investors why arent we shouting this positive from the rooftops instead of painting a picture of a club on the brink of extinction, or liquidation, whatever you want to call it? In fact i would suggest we are in far better financial health than a lot of lower league clubs. Rich in assets but cash poor was how those on the top table described the situation. Looking at that in isolation I'm not sure why there seems to be a narrative that we are on the brink because had it not been for the losses incurred prior to the current situation we would be a sustainable club and one that could be fan owned and fan run, which is what some of us want.
The outside investors would be able to do something that the fans themselves wont probably be able to do, invest money into the infrastructure and playing budget and give us a much greater chance of returning to the EFL. They would also hopefully be able to reimburse a chunk of the Chairman and Directors considerable outlay. So a constructive AGM but one with contradicting messages was how I would describe it, especially when it came to the financial health of the club and the forecast going forward. There is also no reason whatsoever to sell the club to people with the wrong credentials so it's important that we all continue to keep a eye on what is happening with the club and who is sniffing around. If we let one bad apple in we will end up with a orchard and lose the club. [Post edited 23 Dec 2023 6:50]
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Would agree with that but one thing that I must pick you up on - "Looking at that in isolation I'm not sure why there seems to be a narrative that we are on the brink".
You were one of the first to suggest that we were on the brink - i.e that we were going to go into liquidation because you said that was what what the chairman said. You continued with this mantra and amplified it and not surprisingly many other fans became worried that we were going to go into liquidation - magnified further by some of the idiots on social media.
The chairman did not say that at all - he said that he would lend the money to the club but wanted security because IF and I repeat IF the club ever went into liquidation he would then rank ahead of other creditors in terms of getting repaid - totally reasonable IMHO.
I'm glad you've changed your view and I'm even more pleased that we are now breaking even. That's not to say there is still a massive job to do, that we face continual and significant cash flow pressures and that we all need to pull together and head towards calmer waters. As a club and as supporters, I'm confident we can do that - the directors have cut their cloth and despite their weaknesses, lack of communication etc. seem to have acknowledged this and pledged to improve. We've heard it before of course so as always we must keep challenging where appropriate.
Up the Dale! | |
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| Tonight's AGM on 12:11 - Dec 23 with 3235 views | 442Dale |
| Tonight's AGM on 11:11 - Dec 23 by 100notout |
Would agree with that but one thing that I must pick you up on - "Looking at that in isolation I'm not sure why there seems to be a narrative that we are on the brink".
You were one of the first to suggest that we were on the brink - i.e that we were going to go into liquidation because you said that was what what the chairman said. You continued with this mantra and amplified it and not surprisingly many other fans became worried that we were going to go into liquidation - magnified further by some of the idiots on social media.
The chairman did not say that at all - he said that he would lend the money to the club but wanted security because IF and I repeat IF the club ever went into liquidation he would then rank ahead of other creditors in terms of getting repaid - totally reasonable IMHO.
I'm glad you've changed your view and I'm even more pleased that we are now breaking even. That's not to say there is still a massive job to do, that we face continual and significant cash flow pressures and that we all need to pull together and head towards calmer waters. As a club and as supporters, I'm confident we can do that - the directors have cut their cloth and despite their weaknesses, lack of communication etc. seem to have acknowledged this and pledged to improve. We've heard it before of course so as always we must keep challenging where appropriate.
Up the Dale! |
See Wozz’s post on page 1 about inconsistencies in the messaging around the club’s future.
The statement from the club yesterday is a good start to communicating better on what the position is. It has to continue. |  |
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| Tonight's AGM on 17:41 - Dec 23 with 2935 views | TalkingSutty |
| Tonight's AGM on 11:11 - Dec 23 by 100notout |
Would agree with that but one thing that I must pick you up on - "Looking at that in isolation I'm not sure why there seems to be a narrative that we are on the brink".
You were one of the first to suggest that we were on the brink - i.e that we were going to go into liquidation because you said that was what what the chairman said. You continued with this mantra and amplified it and not surprisingly many other fans became worried that we were going to go into liquidation - magnified further by some of the idiots on social media.
The chairman did not say that at all - he said that he would lend the money to the club but wanted security because IF and I repeat IF the club ever went into liquidation he would then rank ahead of other creditors in terms of getting repaid - totally reasonable IMHO.
I'm glad you've changed your view and I'm even more pleased that we are now breaking even. That's not to say there is still a massive job to do, that we face continual and significant cash flow pressures and that we all need to pull together and head towards calmer waters. As a club and as supporters, I'm confident we can do that - the directors have cut their cloth and despite their weaknesses, lack of communication etc. seem to have acknowledged this and pledged to improve. We've heard it before of course so as always we must keep challenging where appropriate.
Up the Dale! |
The Chairman mentioned a doom and gloom scenario again at the AGM. He mentioned the word liquidation in relation to the club first, not me. Take it up with him, not me. |  | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 17:53 - Dec 23 with 2889 views | 100notout |
| Tonight's AGM on 17:41 - Dec 23 by TalkingSutty |
The Chairman mentioned a doom and gloom scenario again at the AGM. He mentioned the word liquidation in relation to the club first, not me. Take it up with him, not me. |
Context - I don't need to take it up with him. He said IF we went into liquidation, you implied we were going to go into liquidation. You misrepresented his comments. | |
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| Tonight's AGM on 18:31 - Dec 23 with 2787 views | TalkingSutty |
| Tonight's AGM on 17:53 - Dec 23 by 100notout |
Context - I don't need to take it up with him. He said IF we went into liquidation, you implied we were going to go into liquidation. You misrepresented his comments. |
Point out were I implied we were going into liquidation. It's the Chairman who mentioned that possibility not me. 😃 | | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 18:39 - Dec 23 with 2746 views | pioneer |
| Tonight's AGM on 11:08 - Dec 23 by nordenblue |
That's what I'm thinking, the board have already said the fact the distribution of previous shares currently makes a takeover of the club more difficult whilst offering shares for sale to potentially an even wider audience... its a sticky one as we clearly do need an influx of cash sharpish. |
Yes, and we cannot keep going to the same ‘trough’ ……its increased revenue streams we need, not one off income injections such as offered by selling ever more shares so weakening the influence of individual shareholders.
There does seem to be a lack of ‘joined up’ thinking.
I wasnt at the AGM but can somebody explain if we are currently breaking even, which I assume to mean covering all our costs, why have we had an issue in making the payroll? If its down to directors putting their hands in their pockets then that can hardly be described as breaking even. | | | |
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| Tonight's AGM on 19:27 - Dec 23 with 2638 views | James1980 |
Would the following be an acceptable way forward to incorporate a new investor/owner.
See if a they would be willing to share ownership with the trust with split ranging between 60-70% for the new investor(s)
40-30% in the hands of the trust
. Shareholders transfer there holding to the trust
.New investors buy the new shares and also shares from the board
. Anyone who donates over 10000 shares to the trust gets an honorary lifetime season ticket.
.All season ticket holders will have an option to join The Dale Trust at the point of buying/renewing their season ticket. | |
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| Tonight's AGM on 19:40 - Dec 23 with 2609 views | 100notout |
| Tonight's AGM on 18:31 - Dec 23 by TalkingSutty |
Point out were I implied we were going into liquidation. It's the Chairman who mentioned that possibility not me. 😃 |
I've got better things to do than go back over old posts but I distinctly remember you quoting the Chairman saying liquidation was likely which he absolutely didn't say. I think you know that but if you don't want to admit it thats fine.
As stated I agreed with a lot of what you said so I'll leave it at that. Merry Xmas. | |
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| Tonight's AGM on 20:06 - Dec 23 with 2537 views | TalkingSutty |
| Tonight's AGM on 19:40 - Dec 23 by 100notout |
I've got better things to do than go back over old posts but I distinctly remember you quoting the Chairman saying liquidation was likely which he absolutely didn't say. I think you know that but if you don't want to admit it thats fine.
As stated I agreed with a lot of what you said so I'll leave it at that. Merry Xmas. |
Merry Xmas to you also👍 | | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 23:21 - Dec 23 with 2306 views | Sandyman |
| Tonight's AGM on 10:58 - Dec 23 by scooby |
Not a fan of further shares going out to fans, I said at the time that this would make it harder to sell the club. Surely, as this was even mentioned that an investor wants 70+ percentage, this is just making it more convoluted? No issues if it was just to the trust, but it’s a no from me to offer fans again. |
See where you're coming from, but....
We have a large number of small shareholders (holding hundreds of shares)
We have a small number of large shareholders (holding tens of thousands of shares)
Should anyone want to buy out the club, all they need to do is to buy out the unsold shares and convince those with big shareholdings to sell up. The small shareholder (I'm one) becomes irrelevant. Morton Louse were able to attempt a hostile takeover without a small shareholder ever being offered a bean.
Offering shares to fans again might earn a few quid for RAFC, and give those fans a closer connection with the club, but if it came to a potential takeover it would matter little that small scale share ownership is widespread. |  | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 00:18 - Dec 24 with 2231 views | wozzrafc |
| Tonight's AGM on 11:11 - Dec 23 by 100notout |
Would agree with that but one thing that I must pick you up on - "Looking at that in isolation I'm not sure why there seems to be a narrative that we are on the brink".
You were one of the first to suggest that we were on the brink - i.e that we were going to go into liquidation because you said that was what what the chairman said. You continued with this mantra and amplified it and not surprisingly many other fans became worried that we were going to go into liquidation - magnified further by some of the idiots on social media.
The chairman did not say that at all - he said that he would lend the money to the club but wanted security because IF and I repeat IF the club ever went into liquidation he would then rank ahead of other creditors in terms of getting repaid - totally reasonable IMHO.
I'm glad you've changed your view and I'm even more pleased that we are now breaking even. That's not to say there is still a massive job to do, that we face continual and significant cash flow pressures and that we all need to pull together and head towards calmer waters. As a club and as supporters, I'm confident we can do that - the directors have cut their cloth and despite their weaknesses, lack of communication etc. seem to have acknowledged this and pledged to improve. We've heard it before of course so as always we must keep challenging where appropriate.
Up the Dale! |
Don’t get the wrong end of the stick about breaking even. We just about broke even for the first half of the year but that would have been with the upfront season ticket money.
The message was if we didn’t sell the remaining shares there was £800 k hole in the budget for this season and the there is zero cash flow at the moment hench the loans by directors..
Be under no doubts if a buyer / investor isn’t found soon we are still in a perilous state. That was the upshot of the message from the AGM.
As I said in my post earlier I thought there were very mixed messaging in how imminent that may be. We got different answers to how far the directors loan would cover us, or if we sell players in jan would that buy us only a few more months? It was a bit more in the air.
What was clear was the only way forward being considered is to sell, so its all our eggs in one basket time and cross our fingers. [Post edited 24 Dec 2023 0:27]
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| Tonight's AGM on 10:41 - Dec 24 with 1990 views | Duckegg |
Might be to much to ask but the Trust as around 1000 members and if they sre willing(like myself) if they can put up £100 each to purchase more shares via the trust..
If this can be done say 3 times between January and the end of season it would help the Trust share wise and give the club a much needed cash boost....
We can be wating for ever for that right person/s to come along and invest or own a controlling stake... |  | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 11:40 - Dec 24 with 1897 views | EllDale |
Can I pose a hypothetical question please?
If I was given £200 in Christmas money which would be the best way of spending it to benefit the club most?
£150 wall plaque and £50 worth of Christmas Draw tickets
£200 direct donation to the club
£200 direct donation to the trust
Put the £200 towards personal share purchase
Any other method | | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 11:50 - Dec 24 with 1883 views | Duckegg |
| Tonight's AGM on 11:40 - Dec 24 by EllDale |
Can I pose a hypothetical question please?
If I was given £200 in Christmas money which would be the best way of spending it to benefit the club most?
£150 wall plaque and £50 worth of Christmas Draw tickets
£200 direct donation to the club
£200 direct donation to the trust
Put the £200 towards personal share purchase
Any other method |
I would personally use it to purchase shares...
Does the taxman get a % of the money to purchase shares..! | | | |
| Tonight's AGM on 11:57 - Dec 24 with 1870 views | D_Alien |
| Tonight's AGM on 11:40 - Dec 24 by EllDale |
Can I pose a hypothetical question please?
If I was given £200 in Christmas money which would be the best way of spending it to benefit the club most?
£150 wall plaque and £50 worth of Christmas Draw tickets
£200 direct donation to the club
£200 direct donation to the trust
Put the £200 towards personal share purchase
Any other method |
Put it behind the bar in the Ratcliffe about 1pm on Boxing Day, and let us know
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| Tonight's AGM on 15:57 - Dec 24 with 1652 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Tonight's AGM on 10:41 - Dec 24 by Duckegg |
Might be to much to ask but the Trust as around 1000 members and if they sre willing(like myself) if they can put up £100 each to purchase more shares via the trust..
If this can be done say 3 times between January and the end of season it would help the Trust share wise and give the club a much needed cash boost....
We can be wating for ever for that right person/s to come along and invest or own a controlling stake... |
The last line is key for me.
When the club was set up in 1910 its Articles deliberately prevented a controlling stake, as was normal for co-operative movements at the time. 11 equal subscribers, no controlling party and rules to prevent a controlling party. As time passed on times financial distress led to that being tested but the model passed on to the next local business man to see the club through.
For all the hype and hyperbole which existed over three or four weeks, there still isn't any form of agreement of how to take the club forward, save for everyone agreeing the funding is key.
I'm certain that we will have moved more toward "breakeven" but won't be self sufficient, no club is and those that are not above Dale in the English pyramid all have someone rich to underwrite that overspend. The biggest expense is the playing squad and that has been trimmed substantially in terms of numbers and therefore cost.
What we are looking for is an "Investor" is the completely wrong term - coined by the 2019/20 Board of the time and continued. Investment is the practice of placing money with an upfront motive of making a profit.
What I think we seek is financial sustainability and stable ownership. Hopefully between individual shareholders and the Trust that objective can be obtained at whatever level we can best operate.
Anyone seeking 70% of the club has their work cut out without bringing a lot of money to the table, something that 2019 onwards suggests isn't very likely.
As someone else said how much time and money the Chairman, Directors, Trust and others have voluntary sunk into the club in an effort to keep it going on a day-to-day basis is extremely creditable when the alternatives from outside of the town appear very limited. |  |
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| Tonight's AGM on 17:26 - Dec 24 with 1524 views | Duckegg |
| Tonight's AGM on 15:57 - Dec 24 by RAFCBLUE |
The last line is key for me.
When the club was set up in 1910 its Articles deliberately prevented a controlling stake, as was normal for co-operative movements at the time. 11 equal subscribers, no controlling party and rules to prevent a controlling party. As time passed on times financial distress led to that being tested but the model passed on to the next local business man to see the club through.
For all the hype and hyperbole which existed over three or four weeks, there still isn't any form of agreement of how to take the club forward, save for everyone agreeing the funding is key.
I'm certain that we will have moved more toward "breakeven" but won't be self sufficient, no club is and those that are not above Dale in the English pyramid all have someone rich to underwrite that overspend. The biggest expense is the playing squad and that has been trimmed substantially in terms of numbers and therefore cost.
What we are looking for is an "Investor" is the completely wrong term - coined by the 2019/20 Board of the time and continued. Investment is the practice of placing money with an upfront motive of making a profit.
What I think we seek is financial sustainability and stable ownership. Hopefully between individual shareholders and the Trust that objective can be obtained at whatever level we can best operate.
Anyone seeking 70% of the club has their work cut out without bringing a lot of money to the table, something that 2019 onwards suggests isn't very likely.
As someone else said how much time and money the Chairman, Directors, Trust and others have voluntary sunk into the club in an effort to keep it going on a day-to-day basis is extremely creditable when the alternatives from outside of the town appear very limited. |
I think they need to consult the fans via the trust about the value the season cards as at present the overall value is costing the club much needed finances.... | | | |
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