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Well, the money markets didn't like the mini budget. I met Liz Truss in a hotel in Monmouth a few years ago. She said her solution to pensioner poverty would be to feed them on Pedigree Chum. Not only would this save a lot of money, it would give them shiny coats and a nice cold nose.
So, just for clarity here.... This is our fault? It's our fault for paying our taxes and NI contributions and watching them being mismanaged and misappropriated on a grand scale? I can't say that I remember any politician from either side 'pandering' to any members of the public. All I remember is sections of the governing party lining their own pockets at a whim and at our expense. But of course, this is all our fault......
You are engaging with the latest manifestation of the usual suspect. Save your breath I say.
I assume he's got photos of Clive in a Chelsea shirt or something.
Just to clarify some earlier posts re conspiracy, bear this in mind. If you have to choose between conspiracy and cock-up, go for cock-up every time.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop
So, just for clarity here.... This is our fault? It's our fault for paying our taxes and NI contributions and watching them being mismanaged and misappropriated on a grand scale? I can't say that I remember any politician from either side 'pandering' to any members of the public. All I remember is sections of the governing party lining their own pockets at a whim and at our expense. But of course, this is all our fault......
A bit of a silly post.Billions of borrowed money and tax payers money is spent on the general public.Health,education and the welfare state just for starters.
The cost of bailing out the banks (which I agree was wrong in the way it was done) was £30 billion. As gov was repaid loans and in the form of shares sold as well to get money down to that
The Furlough scheme cost more than double the banks costs at £70 billion so your mistaken in what you say there. Also it had a much deeper problem of interrupting supply chains etc
While the energy bailout is £130 billion so more than 4 times the bank bailouts!!! And it’s going to be needed again next year
But our total debt is £2.4 trillion (which doesn't include unfunded pension promises) and that is spent on paying for public services beyond our means
So you can't blame just the bank bailouts. Or even just the furlough scheme. But for me the furlough scheme is a perfect example of the short sighted self entitled ignorant nature of the British public as it's the culture of expecting everything and not worrying about how it's paid for isn't even a consideration. It's not your problem, well that was true... until it isn't anymore
To put our national debt in context. To repay that money that it is today and we were to repay £10 million everyday more than we spend on services it would take us 657 years of doing that
So we would need severe austerity until the year 2679 and for everyday of those 657 years we are paying £10 million more than we spend!!! That’s why the pound is collapsing as the trust in fiat currency system is collapsing and hard assets and not imaginary money is where it’s going
[Post edited 27 Sep 2022 7:53]
Obviously I am on LFW for QPR news & chat and Clive's life-affirming writing.
However, football is the world's game, and I have often thought if you pick a football crowd at random, you will find every opinion under the sun housed within - from should we play a back 3 or a back 4 to debates like this one.
My point being, LFW is where I get out of my bubble of like minded friends and can read and debate contrasting views. I won't deny I use the block button now and again for those who I find especially confrontational - but I like the fact that this messageboard is equal parts football and wider issues. I was genuinely chuffed last week when Paul Parker nominated me as one of the "lefties he can debate sensibly with"; and genuinely enjoyed debating the monarchy with L Block during the jubilee. Love ya chaps ;)
This post has, though, left me completely open-mouthed (as did your one slightly further up the thread).
So I'm just going to settle for saying that it should be "you're mistaken", not "your mistaken." Sorry, cheap points scoring I know, but it's all I have the energy for. Right, I'm just off to indulge in some short sighted ignorance, with a dash of expecting everything for nothing - y'know, basic health care, roof over my head, that sort of thing.
From what I read at the weekend, any use by Russia of nuclear weapons in Ukraine would be punished by conventional weapons so there's no planning for nuclear war by the US.
Watching an interview with Lord Dannett this morning, former head of the armed forces he suggested that if the Russians did use a nuke in Ukraine then if he was a sailor in the Russian Black Sea fleet he would not be sleeping very easily. He reckons the US would sink the bloody lot.
So, just for clarity here.... This is our fault? It's our fault for paying our taxes and NI contributions and watching them being mismanaged and misappropriated on a grand scale? I can't say that I remember any politician from either side 'pandering' to any members of the public. All I remember is sections of the governing party lining their own pockets at a whim and at our expense. But of course, this is all our fault......
Spot-on. I would like to have see a government have the foresight to scrap income tax for everyone earning up to £30K pa. That would get real money back into the economy. We should have set-up a national investment bank and a sovereign fund back in the 80's when Thatcher had her oil money, but she chose to dismantle the industrial base of this country instead. Since 2010 the Tories have asked the poorest in this country to take the heavy lift and now they are adopting even more draconian measures against the poorest. Once we get a public Covid inquiry, it is going to become very clear how much this government lined the pockets of a few, costing you and I £Billions. It's now political mis-management on a massive scale and I would not be surprised to see the IMF knocking on the door. We are literally broke!
The expression trickle down economics originates from comedian Will Rogers.
This is from 1932:
"This election was lost four and six years ago, not this year. They [Republicans] didn’t start thinking of the old common fellow till just as they started out on the election tour. The money was all appropriated for the top in the hopes that it would trickle down to the needy. Mr. Hoover was an engineer. He knew that water trickles down. Put it uphill and let it go and it will reach the driest little spot. But he didn’t know that money trickled up. Give it to the people at the bottom and the people at the top will have it before night, anyhow. But it will at least have passed through the poor fellows hands. They saved the big banks, but the little ones went up the flue."
Worth reading the whole piece if this sort of stuff interests you. It's striking how little has changed in 90 years.
The cost of bailing out the banks (which I agree was wrong in the way it was done) was £30 billion. As gov was repaid loans and in the form of shares sold as well to get money down to that
The Furlough scheme cost more than double the banks costs at £70 billion so your mistaken in what you say there. Also it had a much deeper problem of interrupting supply chains etc
While the energy bailout is £130 billion so more than 4 times the bank bailouts!!! And it’s going to be needed again next year
But our total debt is £2.4 trillion (which doesn't include unfunded pension promises) and that is spent on paying for public services beyond our means
So you can't blame just the bank bailouts. Or even just the furlough scheme. But for me the furlough scheme is a perfect example of the short sighted self entitled ignorant nature of the British public as it's the culture of expecting everything and not worrying about how it's paid for isn't even a consideration. It's not your problem, well that was true... until it isn't anymore
To put our national debt in context. To repay that money that it is today and we were to repay £10 million everyday more than we spend on services it would take us 657 years of doing that
So we would need severe austerity until the year 2679 and for everyday of those 657 years we are paying £10 million more than we spend!!! That’s why the pound is collapsing as the trust in fiat currency system is collapsing and hard assets and not imaginary money is where it’s going
[Post edited 27 Sep 2022 7:53]
"...So you can't blame just the bank bailouts. Or even just the furlough scheme. But for me the furlough scheme is a perfect example of the short sighted self entitled ignorant nature of the British public as it's the culture of expecting everything and not worrying about how it's paid for isn't even a consideration..."
Bit off in my humble.
To that point in time, millions of Brits were really struggling. This is despite the fact they many were working and not living excessively privileged lifestyles. The fact that at the end of the month, people are unable - I accept many might not bother - to put a few bob away for a rainy day, is a worry of itself.
It is also worth remembering that the furlough scheme you deride, probably kept millions from starving and was of course, similarly replicated around the world.
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
The expression trickle down economics originates from comedian Will Rogers.
This is from 1932:
"This election was lost four and six years ago, not this year. They [Republicans] didn’t start thinking of the old common fellow till just as they started out on the election tour. The money was all appropriated for the top in the hopes that it would trickle down to the needy. Mr. Hoover was an engineer. He knew that water trickles down. Put it uphill and let it go and it will reach the driest little spot. But he didn’t know that money trickled up. Give it to the people at the bottom and the people at the top will have it before night, anyhow. But it will at least have passed through the poor fellows hands. They saved the big banks, but the little ones went up the flue."
Worth reading the whole piece if this sort of stuff interests you. It's striking how little has changed in 90 years.
Or more starkey: If trickle down economics did work then we wouldn't have had rising inequality for the last 50 yrs.
The trouble with markets/neo liberal intervention is that they are focused on making profit/GDP not promoting the public good. It might actually be okay if we had a government focused on looking after its citizens health and wellbeing & reducing the negative externalities private enterprise creates as opposed to their own self interest/ego/headlines.
From my basic understanding of economics, spending money stimulates economies. It supports businesses (big and small) and each transactions generates tax back into the treasury for the benefit of everyone. Therefore stifling the ability for 99% of the public to spend so that 1% can hoard even more money and not spend it seems bonkers to me. Or have I got it wrong and am missing something?
"...So you can't blame just the bank bailouts. Or even just the furlough scheme. But for me the furlough scheme is a perfect example of the short sighted self entitled ignorant nature of the British public as it's the culture of expecting everything and not worrying about how it's paid for isn't even a consideration..."
Bit off in my humble.
To that point in time, millions of Brits were really struggling. This is despite the fact they many were working and not living excessively privileged lifestyles. The fact that at the end of the month, people are unable - I accept many might not bother - to put a few bob away for a rainy day, is a worry of itself.
It is also worth remembering that the furlough scheme you deride, probably kept millions from starving and was of course, similarly replicated around the world.
"The fact that at the end of the month, people are unable - I accept many might not bother - to put a few bob away for a rainy day, is a worry of itself."
I suspect a key difference between a lot of us on here, is just how many people we consider "not bothering" to put anything away at the end of the month. I know people in their twenties who claim they can't afford to be in a pension scheme at work, and yet they roll around the office in Giuseppe Zanotti's.
It's easy to assume no one would do that - But they can, and they do.
[Post edited 27 Sep 2022 12:37]
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
"The fact that at the end of the month, people are unable - I accept many might not bother - to put a few bob away for a rainy day, is a worry of itself."
I suspect a key difference between a lot of us on here, is just how many people we consider "not bothering" to put anything away at the end of the month. I know people in their twenties who claim they can't afford to be in a pension scheme at work, and yet they roll around the office in Giuseppe Zanotti's.
It's easy to assume no one would do that - But they can, and they do.
[Post edited 27 Sep 2022 12:37]
One of the weakest cohort to cite for their financial astuteness: the financial priorities of 20-somethings.
I couldn't even spell penchon at that age, but certainly knew may around Heathrow's departure gates. I think financial illiteracy is common among younger people.
To what extent people can put a bit aside is a moot point of discussion, but I'm reasonably confident in stating many working folks in the UK right now can't or if they can, it ain't much.
Then again with inflation set to rise....
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
Spot-on. I would like to have see a government have the foresight to scrap income tax for everyone earning up to £30K pa. That would get real money back into the economy. We should have set-up a national investment bank and a sovereign fund back in the 80's when Thatcher had her oil money, but she chose to dismantle the industrial base of this country instead. Since 2010 the Tories have asked the poorest in this country to take the heavy lift and now they are adopting even more draconian measures against the poorest. Once we get a public Covid inquiry, it is going to become very clear how much this government lined the pockets of a few, costing you and I £Billions. It's now political mis-management on a massive scale and I would not be surprised to see the IMF knocking on the door. We are literally broke!
Well there was a 10% tax band, but that was scrapped by Labour, so they are all as bad as each other.
You are engaging with the latest manifestation of the usual suspect. Save your breath I say.
I assume he's got photos of Clive in a Chelsea shirt or something.
Do you think he is Russian Bot or........ heavens forbid.....
I do think there is some (I stress some) validity in his/her post and assessment of the situation.
That aside...... you can call people names, you can bring up lots about them, you can pour disdain on their arguments and you can prove your superior intellect but.....never, ever bring Chelscum into the argument as mud to throw at them.
There are lines Sir.
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
You are engaging with the latest manifestation of the usual suspect. Save your breath I say.
I assume he's got photos of Clive in a Chelsea shirt or something.
I've come round to your way of thinking on this too Baz, its a bit obvious in my view from the writing styles.
Shame as these things ARE interesting and it is interesting to hear a wide variety of normal people's views and anxieties, to know we're all in the same boat a bit trying to muddle through best we can.
But then the whole "I know better than you" routine soon wears thin, and whilst on a different matter I believe The Beast means well from their posts here and across the board, it must be exhausting to see conspiracies in everything and trying to connect every dot going.
I've read this thread mostly with genuine interest and fascination.
Clearly I'm on the record as to "never commenting on politics again" but on this I feel this is not about politics, it's about the thing that matters to all of us no matter your allegiance and that is the economy. I'm done with politics in this country - it's fcukd with the lines totally blurred between the traditional "big two". Brown fcukd it in 2008... successive governments have continued to do so with BoJo and Truss the latest to have overseen a worsening of the UK in terms of standards - living, respect, housing etc, etc. My personal concern there is the potential this gives to marginals - none of us really want to see us go the way of Italy or the left wing militant equivalent. It's those that make most gains in these worrying times.
The news this morning was a total shocker to me. In my lifetime I do not ever recall high street lenders removing the complete range of their lending products from offer. Huge alarm bells went off in my head. The meejah must take a huge slice of blame - they literally fall over themselves to turn a light shower into a Force 9 hurricane and like lemmings the British public laps it up and panics at every turn.
I've not a lot else to say other than I've learnt a lot from this thread with really interesting perspectives and some interesting advice. What I've learnt the most is really shocking -- a physcometric (SP) thing I did years back that told me I was a right sided Liberal seems to have been bang on!!! Well I never.....
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
Surely a huge problem is the government's admission that the pandemic business loan scheme wasn't means tested because they didn't have time. Estimated to have cost £8bn just in terms of non-repayments and then saying everyone would get X hundred £ during the energy crisis with the wealthy getting the same as the poorest, because they don't have time to means test the payments. If they had a system that actually was sensible enough to be means tested then the poorest of us would be getting the help they deserve, rather than the government flushing £8bn + on companies crashing during the pandemic with no need to repay the loan... but still managing to put a brand new car on the drive at home in the meantime!
"The clash between gelatinous jellyfish and hulking nuclear power plants has a long history. These spineless, brainless, bloodless creatures shut down the Torness nuclear power plant in 2011 at a cost of approximately $1.5 million per day, according to one estimate. Swarms of these invertebrates have also been responsible for nuclear power plant shutdowns in Israel, Japan, the United States, the Philippines, South Korea, and Sweden".
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
"The clash between gelatinous jellyfish and hulking nuclear power plants has a long history. These spineless, brainless, bloodless creatures shut down the Torness nuclear power plant in 2011 at a cost of approximately $1.5 million per day, according to one estimate. Swarms of these invertebrates have also been responsible for nuclear power plant shutdowns in Israel, Japan, the United States, the Philippines, South Korea, and Sweden".
We don't call them Jellyfish here....they're known as Pisgod Wibbli Wobbli.
We knew what was coming.Recently we had a surveyor in to discuss the Solar Panel grants being handed out to Welsh homes.He was banging on about selling his house and getting something else,we told him to sit on his hands because the strong indications were that a property/mortgage crash was coming.He was warned off getting a sucker mortgage at 1%.He would have ended up paying an extra £200 a week now.
I'm also seeing that in the States the only way they're selling properties between $1,000,000 and $3,000,000 is by cash.It'll happen here,what else can you negotiate with if you can't get a mortgage?
One of the weakest cohort to cite for their financial astuteness: the financial priorities of 20-somethings.
I couldn't even spell penchon at that age, but certainly knew may around Heathrow's departure gates. I think financial illiteracy is common among younger people.
To what extent people can put a bit aside is a moot point of discussion, but I'm reasonably confident in stating many working folks in the UK right now can't or if they can, it ain't much.
Then again with inflation set to rise....
Well speaking as a 20-something who had never thought about saving prior to lockdown, and then managed to save an entire house deposit during lockdown, I disagree.
Oh - And at no point did I even consider lowering, never mind stopping my 9.3% pension contribution
[Post edited 27 Sep 2022 14:42]
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
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