| So what happens now? 18:47 - Jun 2 with 10322 views | suc |
We all agree last night was a pivotal moment. We have got rid of the pantomime clown and his accomplice, the chairman obviously has no bottle throwing a sicky for both the fans forum and the EGM, yet he has beeni well enough to discuss selling the club for the last four months, so who is going to run the club now. I have heard nothing about where we go from here, suggestions on a postcard to the club please as no one there has a clue. |  | | |  |
| So what happens now? on 19:46 - Jun 2 with 6952 views | blackdogblue |
Ask Baz for a BBM out banner?
Time for wholesale changes & bring CD back 👠|  |
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| So what happens now? on 09:01 - Jun 3 with 6488 views | electricblue |
| So what happens now? on 19:46 - Jun 2 by blackdogblue |
Ask Baz for a BBM out banner?
Time for wholesale changes & bring CD back 👠|
For me bringing back CD would help to heal the discontent from the supporters towards the board also im sure that CD would bring some much needed stability.
But for CD to walk back through that door DB would have to be completely removed...
Didnt one main shareholder say they have interests from 4 business people !.... |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| So what happens now? on 10:05 - Jun 3 with 6393 views | tony_roch975 |
| So what happens now? on 09:01 - Jun 3 by electricblue |
For me bringing back CD would help to heal the discontent from the supporters towards the board also im sure that CD would bring some much needed stability.
But for CD to walk back through that door DB would have to be completely removed...
Didnt one main shareholder say they have interests from 4 business people !.... |
That was Graham Morris I think - he mentioned Richard Knight, Jonathon Whitworth, James Garsfield, Simon Gage; are you suggesting they might be a 'front' for a CD return? | |
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| So what happens now? on 12:45 - Jun 3 with 6141 views | 1907 |
| So what happens now? on 10:05 - Jun 3 by tony_roch975 |
That was Graham Morris I think - he mentioned Richard Knight, Jonathon Whitworth, James Garsfield, Simon Gage; are you suggesting they might be a 'front' for a CD return? |
As far as I remember David Kilpatrick was hugely critical of Chris Dunphy at the AGM following his exit from the club. Mainly around the issue of what it actually cost to buy back the ground. I would be extremely surprised if Kilpatrick & Morris wanted Dunphy back involved. | | | |
| So what happens now? on 14:07 - Jun 3 with 5984 views | Nafelad |
| So what happens now? on 10:05 - Jun 3 by tony_roch975 |
That was Graham Morris I think - he mentioned Richard Knight, Jonathon Whitworth, James Garsfield, Simon Gage; are you suggesting they might be a 'front' for a CD return? |
Wondering why Kilpatrick, Morris, Butterworth, et al, have not said anything about the Club's administration until the AGM/EGM. Have rhey not been aware of the 'goings on' previously? |  |
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| So what happens now? on 14:32 - Jun 3 with 5902 views | SuddenLad |
| So what happens now? on 14:07 - Jun 3 by Nafelad |
Wondering why Kilpatrick, Morris, Butterworth, et al, have not said anything about the Club's administration until the AGM/EGM. Have rhey not been aware of the 'goings on' previously? |
Of course they have been aware, but they have had no authority to intervene and no physical presence within to change or influence things. In some ways, they themselves have felt the brunt of what's been going on.
The whole EGM/AGM process has been brought to fruition so that people with a shareholders voice can use the proper forum to express views, challenge people and vote accordingly.
That's what happened and there was a successful outcome from a supporters perspective.
Make no mistake these people you mention are as upset and angry as anyone as was evidenced at the meeting.
They didn't stand aside and allow the sh!tshow to continue. With their help, it's been derailed and we can now start the process of making sure we (as supporters) help the club go forward with a brighter outlook and less murkiness hanging over Spotland. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| So what happens now? on 15:11 - Jun 3 with 5749 views | Nafelad |
| So what happens now? on 14:32 - Jun 3 by SuddenLad |
Of course they have been aware, but they have had no authority to intervene and no physical presence within to change or influence things. In some ways, they themselves have felt the brunt of what's been going on.
The whole EGM/AGM process has been brought to fruition so that people with a shareholders voice can use the proper forum to express views, challenge people and vote accordingly.
That's what happened and there was a successful outcome from a supporters perspective.
Make no mistake these people you mention are as upset and angry as anyone as was evidenced at the meeting.
They didn't stand aside and allow the sh!tshow to continue. With their help, it's been derailed and we can now start the process of making sure we (as supporters) help the club go forward with a brighter outlook and less murkiness hanging over Spotland. |
Thanks for the response, SL. I now better appreciate and understand their situation. It seems to me that there needs to be more Board Meetings during the year, where challenges and questions can be made, as a check on administration, employment and 'the running' of the Club. I realise the pandemic has had a significant part to play in the postponements of AGM, etc, this past year, but there must be a better way to enable shareholders to 'exert influence', than to have to wait for an AGM, or to decide to hold an EGM. | |
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| So what happens now? on 15:13 - Jun 3 with 5730 views | DaleiLama |
| So what happens now? on 15:11 - Jun 3 by Nafelad |
Thanks for the response, SL. I now better appreciate and understand their situation. It seems to me that there needs to be more Board Meetings during the year, where challenges and questions can be made, as a check on administration, employment and 'the running' of the Club. I realise the pandemic has had a significant part to play in the postponements of AGM, etc, this past year, but there must be a better way to enable shareholders to 'exert influence', than to have to wait for an AGM, or to decide to hold an EGM. |
Was the Chairman of the Trust to be elected to sit on the board, then the interests of the fanbase would be represented. Not difficult. |  |
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| So what happens now? on 15:20 - Jun 3 with 5690 views | James1980 |
| So what happens now? on 15:13 - Jun 3 by DaleiLama |
Was the Chairman of the Trust to be elected to sit on the board, then the interests of the fanbase would be represented. Not difficult. |
If fans could raise the funds to buy him a place on the board would the trust chairman take the position? | |
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| So what happens now? on 15:25 - Jun 3 with 5685 views | DaleiLama |
| So what happens now? on 15:20 - Jun 3 by James1980 |
If fans could raise the funds to buy him a place on the board would the trust chairman take the position? |
That's a question that only the current chairman could answer, but if the board position went with the role, I'm sure fans would chip in (look how many would like to buy shares). I chucked an extra £20 in when I joined the Trust just in case a fighting fund were needed. The Trust must have funds. The credit card purchase thing raises money. Where there's a will ........... | |
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| So what happens now? on 15:43 - Jun 3 with 5630 views | tony_roch975 |
| So what happens now? on 15:13 - Jun 3 by DaleiLama |
Was the Chairman of the Trust to be elected to sit on the board, then the interests of the fanbase would be represented. Not difficult. |
Yes but that also creates conflicts of loyalty /confidentiality - if a Trust representative on the Board is party to decisions the Trust subsequently oppose or to confidential Board information they can't pass on to the Trust, that could undermine their Trust relationship; or the Board might make private decisions outside their meetings in order to keep things from a Trust rep. Not saying I disagree but it's a thorny issue. Perhaps the Trust could ballot members on this and other current issues | |
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| So what happens now? on 15:49 - Jun 3 with 5598 views | D_Alien |
| So what happens now? on 15:43 - Jun 3 by tony_roch975 |
Yes but that also creates conflicts of loyalty /confidentiality - if a Trust representative on the Board is party to decisions the Trust subsequently oppose or to confidential Board information they can't pass on to the Trust, that could undermine their Trust relationship; or the Board might make private decisions outside their meetings in order to keep things from a Trust rep. Not saying I disagree but it's a thorny issue. Perhaps the Trust could ballot members on this and other current issues |
I agree, and one solution might be to have an (independent) Trust chair and a separate Trust representative on the Board
There will be issues arising whatever the conditions of Trust representation are, but having that "separation of powers" (as it were) might mitigate some of them
Edit: it might also help if the Trust rep on the Board was for a fixed term of no more than say, two years, to prevent Stockholm Syndrome!
[Post edited 3 Jun 2021 15:52]
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| So what happens now? on 15:51 - Jun 3 with 5579 views | DaleiLama |
| So what happens now? on 15:43 - Jun 3 by tony_roch975 |
Yes but that also creates conflicts of loyalty /confidentiality - if a Trust representative on the Board is party to decisions the Trust subsequently oppose or to confidential Board information they can't pass on to the Trust, that could undermine their Trust relationship; or the Board might make private decisions outside their meetings in order to keep things from a Trust rep. Not saying I disagree but it's a thorny issue. Perhaps the Trust could ballot members on this and other current issues |
Good points. | |
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| So what happens now? on 16:17 - Jun 3 with 5481 views | tony_roch975 |
| So what happens now? on 15:49 - Jun 3 by D_Alien |
I agree, and one solution might be to have an (independent) Trust chair and a separate Trust representative on the Board
There will be issues arising whatever the conditions of Trust representation are, but having that "separation of powers" (as it were) might mitigate some of them
Edit: it might also help if the Trust rep on the Board was for a fixed term of no more than say, two years, to prevent Stockholm Syndrome!
[Post edited 3 Jun 2021 15:52]
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Get where your coming from but not sure it solves the problem - doesn't matter who represents the Trust on the Board, the key issue is they represent the Trust not the Board. the Board and the Trust have different purposes (however much we all hope they coalesce) - the Trust (fans) aren't responsible for the Club's viability, only shareholders are; if all fans held a share (part of the ticket price?) we wouldn't need a Trust - there's something to aim for?? I think more regular shareholder gatherings (which would include the Trust) might be an improvement? | |
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| So what happens now? on 17:10 - Jun 3 with 5335 views | D_Alien |
| So what happens now? on 16:17 - Jun 3 by tony_roch975 |
Get where your coming from but not sure it solves the problem - doesn't matter who represents the Trust on the Board, the key issue is they represent the Trust not the Board. the Board and the Trust have different purposes (however much we all hope they coalesce) - the Trust (fans) aren't responsible for the Club's viability, only shareholders are; if all fans held a share (part of the ticket price?) we wouldn't need a Trust - there's something to aim for?? I think more regular shareholder gatherings (which would include the Trust) might be an improvement? |
A better case scenario would be one where the Board itself was seen - and very clearly seen - as representative of fans
Claims by board members to be fans have been tarnished to some extent and need to be removed from any element of trying to manipulate people's perceptions
A reconstituted Board that included people whose Dale credentials were beyond reproach would be a different matter, particularly if said Board went about its business in a manner that was genuinely empathetic to fans' concerns
That wouldn't mean that an independent Trust shouldn't continue to ask questions, or indeed that any fan shouldn't be able to do so independently of the Trust | |
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| So what happens now? on 17:11 - Jun 3 with 5337 views | Nafelad |
| So what happens now? on 16:17 - Jun 3 by tony_roch975 |
Get where your coming from but not sure it solves the problem - doesn't matter who represents the Trust on the Board, the key issue is they represent the Trust not the Board. the Board and the Trust have different purposes (however much we all hope they coalesce) - the Trust (fans) aren't responsible for the Club's viability, only shareholders are; if all fans held a share (part of the ticket price?) we wouldn't need a Trust - there's something to aim for?? I think more regular shareholder gatherings (which would include the Trust) might be an improvement? |
Regular shareholders meetings - I think that may be a solution. (In a previous post I was suggesting more regular Board meetings). [Post edited 3 Jun 2021 17:12]
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| So what happens now? on 18:42 - Jun 3 with 5118 views | 49thseason |
The aim now must be to become the club with the widest and deepest shareholder base amongst its fans. The trust needs to argue the case for the creation of "shadow committees" whereby fans can add experience and expertise to areas of the club that clearly do not have sufficient people to grow as quickly as they might do and the board needs to recognise the need to pay attention.
The Lotto in particular and sales and marketing in general being an easy example and fundraising being an urgent one. That the Gold Bond once had 17,000 participants indicates that there is widespread passive support for the club, if we could take a pound a week from that base of support we would be on our way to raising an extra £1m. With some investment and excitement £2 a week per person would be incredible and a worthwhile target.
The new board needs to be told in no uncertain terms that they work for the shareholders and the fans and that they should support fans who want to become shareholders to do so, irrespective of the number of shares involved.
Having thrown the handgrenade , supporters now need to help to pick up the pieces by supporting, buy season tickets if possible, buy shares if you can, maybe help to restore the Gold Bond by buying tickets and encouraging your friends, family and neighbours to do the same. The financial danger is real, the board now has to first of all attract new members as a matter of urgency, ideally people with energy and leadership skills. The club must become self sufficient and responsible for its own destiny and quickly. |  | | |
| So what happens now? on 19:06 - Jun 3 with 5052 views | Newbury_Dale |
Whilst Bottomley and to a lesser extent Fielding remain employees of the club, I am not quite sure how we move forward, personally.
A new CEO accountable to a new board of directors. | | | |
| So what happens now? on 19:15 - Jun 3 with 5010 views | electricblue |
| So what happens now? on 10:05 - Jun 3 by tony_roch975 |
That was Graham Morris I think - he mentioned Richard Knight, Jonathon Whitworth, James Garsfield, Simon Gage; are you suggesting they might be a 'front' for a CD return? |
Who knows !
Would it be a bad move! I dont think so..... | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| So what happens now? on 20:32 - Jun 3 with 4866 views | boromat |
For me I think we need a board that is much bigger and maybe even larger than the minimum required. It also should be varied people from different backgrounds with different perspectives and skills to bring to the table.
We've now only got 3. I think it's been mentioned on here the minimum is 7 but maybe we could get 10 or 12. That way it's much more likely that we have better debate and discussion on topics before decisions are made. It also takes the pressure off and spreads the load. For me a CEO should never again be a director of any kind, shareholder fine but not a director.
Just from posts on here it sounds like Graham Morris proposed 4 people that would be interested, Richard Wild Francis and Dunphy have all shown some interest and then there is Dan and Emre as well. That's 11 right there with the existing 3. | |
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| So what happens now? on 21:02 - Jun 3 with 4799 views | tony_roch975 |
| So what happens now? on 15:20 - Jun 3 by James1980 |
If fans could raise the funds to buy him a place on the board would the trust chairman take the position? |
As the Trust already hold more shares than Tony Pockney they wouldn't need to buy new shares | |
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| So what happens now? on 21:23 - Jun 3 with 4755 views | James1980 |
| So what happens now? on 21:02 - Jun 3 by tony_roch975 |
As the Trust already hold more shares than Tony Pockney they wouldn't need to buy new shares |
So the £25K wouldn't need to be paid. | |
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| So what happens now? on 21:39 - Jun 3 with 4698 views | tony_roch975 |
| So what happens now? on 21:23 - Jun 3 by James1980 |
So the £25K wouldn't need to be paid. |
Someone else may be able to enlighten us but I don't know what that figure refers to except that the 12500 shares (which is roughly the figure for DB, GR & TP's shareholdings) at £2 per share would come to £25K and it's way beyond the £10 nominal value shareholding for each director required by the Club's Articles. | |
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| So what happens now? on 23:25 - Jun 3 with 4506 views | dalefan10 |
well done on the pratt of the year comment about the chairman the bloke isn't well and with idiots like you that doesn't help go give your head a wobble see if anything is in there | | | |
| So what happens now? on 06:13 - Jun 4 with 4347 views | Nigeriamark |
| So what happens now? on 21:23 - Jun 3 by James1980 |
So the £25K wouldn't need to be paid. |
To be a member of a board you don't have to own shares. Even if Dales currently have a rule or recommendation, it could propose or pass and an exception if it felt having a trust member on the board was a good idea |  | | |
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