| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places 07:49 - May 8 with 27274 views | isitme |
The English Football League will next week tell clubs in Leagues One and Two there is no chance of playing any more games this season and ask them to vote on a method to decide promotion and relegation.
EFL chairman Rick Parry told MPs on the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport select committee on Wednesday morning that a resolution to the season in the third and fourth tiers was only a matter of days away and it now seems a decision could come as early as Monday or Tuesday.
The Athletic understands the EFL board has already received several proposals from clubs, with the current favourite being a points-per-game (PPG) model weighted to reflect how many games the teams have played home and away.
The rationale for this idea is a non-weighted PPG calculation does not take into account the fact that some teams have four home games left, while others have six.
This season across the Football League, the home team has won 46 per cent of the time, with away teams winning only 26 per cent of the games. Over the last six EFL seasons, the average PPG at home is 1.55, compared to 1.19 away.
Under this method, which has been used to decide the tables in English grassroots club rugby union, each club’s PPG would be worked out for their home and away fixtures, then multiplied by 22 for League One, which had 23 clubs this season because of Bury’s demise last summer, and 23 for League Two and then added together to reach a total for the season.
The Athletic understands that a League One club has prepared a detailed explanation of this method, with a full set of final tables, and emailed it to the EFL board.
With the EFL admitting there is no chance of staging its traditional end-of-season play-offs in Leagues One and Two, the top three sides in the League One will be promoted to the Championship, with three going down to League Two, while four come up from League Two and only one goes down, to restore the EFL to its full quota of 72 teams.
The weighted PPG method does not change the top three in League One at all, meaning Coventry City would be crowned champions, with Rotherham United and Oxford United joining them in the Championship next season. The current bottom three – Tranmere Rovers, Southend United and Bolton Wanderers – would still be the bottom three, although Bolton would climb one spot, leaving Southend in last place.
In League Two, Swindon Town would leapfrog Crewe Alexandra into first place, with Plymouth Argyle staying in third but Cheltenham Town climbing over Exeter City to claim the final promotion spot. Stevenage Borough would remain in last place, despite the seven-point deduction Macclesfield Town received on Thursday for failing to fulfill a fixture or pay their players on time.
The Athletic has spoken to two other EFL clubs who said they were aware of this proposal and several others who said they were not, but every club approached said they knew of at least half a dozen different ideas that were circulating around the league. These include using the current tables to settle the finishing positions, a non-weighted PPG model and an idea to only count the first half of the season, which would be the first 22 games in League One and 23 games in League Two.
Some clubs have discussed using more complicated statistical models that factor in how hard each club’s run-in was before the season was suspended in March. There is considerable opposition to these models, though, with one club dismissing them as “hypothetical and unfair”.
The prospect of declaring the season “null and void” appears to have receded, as most clubs acknowledge this would be very unfair on the teams that have got themselves into the promotion place. It would also come with financial and legal risks.
However, any club faced with relegation is almost certainly going to object to being demoted on the basis of PPG, weighted or otherwise. This has led to some clubs suggesting either two or three clubs are promoted this season, with none relegated. Five teams would then be relegated from the divisions above next season, in order to reset them.
But this idea will face strong opposition from the English game’s bosses as it will lead to fixture congestion next season, complicate the distribution of central income and break the terms of the tripartite agreement the EFL, FA and Premier League signed when the top flight broke away from the EFL in 1992.
As things stand, however, both the Premier League and Championship are determined to finish this season’s fixtures in neutral stadiums behind closed doors, which would mean all these issues would be settled on the pitch in the top two divisions. |  | | |  |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 07:51 - May 8 with 8980 views | isitme |
Article taken from the Athletic. It is behind a paywall so I have posted the article, rather than link to the article.
Personally I agree with the proposals as if implemented the current top three will go up and the current bottom three will go down. | | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 08:31 - May 8 with 8943 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 07:51 - May 8 by isitme |
Article taken from the Athletic. It is behind a paywall so I have posted the article, rather than link to the article.
Personally I agree with the proposals as if implemented the current top three will go up and the current bottom three will go down. |
It seems as fair as any other method and any method will be unfair on someone. I wonder if they’ll calculate a margin of error (say 4 points) and if a team loses out on promotion or is relegated within the margin of error then it will receive extra cash as an acknowledgment. For example, if a League One team is relegated within the margin of error then it will still receive League One payments for the following season, or 2 if that already happens. It certainly won’t fully appease such teams but may make it more palatable. [Post edited 8 May 2020 8:33]
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 08:36 - May 8 with 8930 views | electricblue |
Finally we have a plausible plan to end the seasons....
Will there be any details on financial help for the lge 1&2 clubs forth coming...... |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 09:39 - May 8 with 8835 views | 442Dale |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 08:31 - May 8 by BigDaveMyCock |
It seems as fair as any other method and any method will be unfair on someone. I wonder if they’ll calculate a margin of error (say 4 points) and if a team loses out on promotion or is relegated within the margin of error then it will receive extra cash as an acknowledgment. For example, if a League One team is relegated within the margin of error then it will still receive League One payments for the following season, or 2 if that already happens. It certainly won’t fully appease such teams but may make it more palatable. [Post edited 8 May 2020 8:33]
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Would argue that with radical changes already been acknowledged as required across the leagues that payments to L1 and L2 clubs should be the same for the next 2/3 seasons.
For example, why should we receive more money than Tranmere just because we’re lucky enough to be ahead of them as things stand? |  |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 09:48 - May 8 with 8815 views | TalkingSutty |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 08:36 - May 8 by electricblue |
Finally we have a plausible plan to end the seasons....
Will there be any details on financial help for the lge 1&2 clubs forth coming...... |
The EFL stumped up £50 million last month to be distributed to Clubs as part of the end of season television and sponsorship money payment, in other words they got that payment early in order to help to alleviate immediate financial pressures. I’m not sure what the PFA are doing but they are sitting on a massive pile of money and have been criticised over the years for stockpiling money instead of using it to help their members. The Premiership Clubs could look after the lower league Clubs and not even blink an eye, donating maybe £1 million to each L1 and L2 Club would be a great gesture and probably stop some Clubs going to the wall. |  | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 10:56 - May 8 with 8650 views | D_Alien |
Reluctantly, i'm now in agreement with the proposal for a weighted points adjustment to produce final placings, with promotion/relegation occurring according to the agreed format, i.e. taking account of the additional L1 place required
This option would, i believe, allow the integrity of competition to be maintained to a greater extent than an attempt to complete fixtures involving potentially decimated squads. It might also set a precedent should (heaven forbid) such a recourse be required in the future, so at least we'd then have certainty rather than the myriad of options leading to disputes
At least it looks like the "declare season null and void" option is rapidly receding into the dustbin, where it belongs after such a significant proportion of fixtures had been completed |  |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:06 - May 8 with 8640 views | pioneer |
Wouldn’t argue against it given the other options but it’s hard on teams who had a poor start to the season but we’re finishing strong, like happened to us over the last two seasons. It would be interesting to look back to where we were points per game wise after the same number of games played in those two seasons. | | | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:13 - May 8 with 8593 views | TVOS1907 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:02 - May 8 by ncfc_chalky |
I'm presuming that the National League will follow suit if this idea should go ahead with Barrow and Harrogate being promoted which I feel would be unfair as Notts was gaining momentum at the time and Barrow definitely showing signs of slowing down,I fancied our chances in the playoffs tbh and was hoping for a twice in a season Wembley visit
Barrow won't last in League Two and will come straight back down again with their lack of support and dump of a ground and I feel that we have been cheated out of a promotion 
Having said all of that nobody could have forecasted what would happen this season and it's got to be sorted out one way or another and the only thing that will make it bearable is it Forest miss out on promotion [Post edited 8 May 2020 11:12]
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You've been cheated out of something that hasn't actually happened?
Good one.
EDIT: I take it using "cheated" is meant to be ironic. [Post edited 8 May 2020 11:20]
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| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:19 - May 8 with 8591 views | jonahwhereru |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 07:51 - May 8 by isitme |
Article taken from the Athletic. It is behind a paywall so I have posted the article, rather than link to the article.
Personally I agree with the proposals as if implemented the current top three will go up and the current bottom three will go down. |
Thanks for this isitme.
I follow a National League rugby side who avoided relegation by the PPG system. They were overwhelmingly favourites to stay up mind. Which is the same situation the Dale would be in.
I think we have more home games left, and we haven’t been great at getting the points at home, so our board would do well the promote this option. | | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:27 - May 8 with 8525 views | Shun |
Thanks for sharing.
This definitely seems like the fairest way of doing things, and I really hope it happens. |  | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:29 - May 8 with 8546 views | ncfc_chalky |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:18 - May 8 by AtThePeake |
Barrow had lost two league games since October, I'd hardly say that's slowing down. |
Harrogate would have caught them by the end of the season which would have left Barrow in the playoffs and beatable imo |  |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:31 - May 8 with 8540 views | isitme |
No problem sharing it.
The Athletic is a really good site with excellent NFL coverage as well as football. With it being a relevant article I thought I would copy and paste it. I don't think they will be on to me for a breach of copyright! | | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:31 - May 8 with 8536 views | 442Dale |
Obviously it’s a wind-up, but you have to admire the enduring nature of Notts County to be an irritation in all situations. | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:35 - May 8 with 8518 views | ncfc_chalky |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:13 - May 8 by TVOS1907 |
You've been cheated out of something that hasn't actually happened?
Good one.
EDIT: I take it using "cheated" is meant to be ironic. [Post edited 8 May 2020 11:20]
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Aye "cheated" was used tongue in cheek but I did think that we had a chance of going up,this is particularly gutting as there's a strong possibility that this was going to be my last season watching the Pies as I had plans to move away before the pandemic happened,promotion back to where we belong and a double visit to Wembley would have finished it off nicely | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:42 - May 8 with 8493 views | 442Dale |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:35 - May 8 by ncfc_chalky |
Aye "cheated" was used tongue in cheek but I did think that we had a chance of going up,this is particularly gutting as there's a strong possibility that this was going to be my last season watching the Pies as I had plans to move away before the pandemic happened,promotion back to where we belong and a double visit to Wembley would have finished it off nicely |
Lots of teams had a chance of going up. Lots of people will be feeling the same way for sure, it’s a tough one for so many.
Here’s the L1 table from twitter. Interesting to note that we’d have dropped to 22 points at home if we’d lost to Rotherham and narrowly avoided relegation.
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:05 - May 8 with 8452 views | BartRowou |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:42 - May 8 by 442Dale |
Lots of teams had a chance of going up. Lots of people will be feeling the same way for sure, it’s a tough one for so many.
Here’s the L1 table from twitter. Interesting to note that we’d have dropped to 22 points at home if we’d lost to Rotherham and narrowly avoided relegation.
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And we'd have lost that game if we'd had a wonder pitch.
SAVE MONEY & KEEP THE CABBAGE PATCH. |  |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:07 - May 8 with 8419 views | TVOS1907 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:29 - May 8 by ncfc_chalky |
Harrogate would have caught them by the end of the season which would have left Barrow in the playoffs and beatable imo |
How do you know Harrogate would have caught them? I think they still had to play each other. Barrow might have won that game. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:22 - May 8 with 8382 views | TVOS1907 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 11:42 - May 8 by 442Dale |
Lots of teams had a chance of going up. Lots of people will be feeling the same way for sure, it’s a tough one for so many.
Here’s the L1 table from twitter. Interesting to note that we’d have dropped to 22 points at home if we’d lost to Rotherham and narrowly avoided relegation.
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Sunderland & Ipswich had played the most games in League One (36), so how about using PPG to scale everyone up to a 36-game points total?
It's a more realistic representation of what has already happened in games played and means less future games to be factored in for what might happen.
As it is, they could be effectively predicting Dale's next ten results, whereas under my proposal, it would only be predicting our next two.
I know this has got more holes than a colander, but it's another possibility.
This is what it gives:
Coventry 70.94
Rotherham 63.77
Wycombe 62.47
Fleetwood 61.71
Oxford 61.71
Portsmouth 61.71
Peterborough 60.69
Sunderland 59.00
Doncaster 57.18
Gillingham 52.46
Ipswich 52.00
Burton 49.37
Blackpool 46.29
Bristol R 46.29
Shrewsbury 43.41
Lincoln 43.20
Accrington 41.14
Rochdale 38.12
MK Dons 38.06
AFC Wimbledon 36.00
Tranmere 33.88
Southend 19.54
Bolton 14.82
Or what about Duckworth-Lewis-Stern? [Post edited 8 May 2020 12:22]
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| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:32 - May 8 with 8377 views | ncfc_chalky |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:07 - May 8 by TVOS1907 |
How do you know Harrogate would have caught them? I think they still had to play each other. Barrow might have won that game. |
Harrogate was on a far better run than Barrow before the games stopped and I think that Harrogate had home advantage,my money would have been on them | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:54 - May 8 with 8315 views | 442Dale |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:32 - May 8 by ncfc_chalky |
Harrogate was on a far better run than Barrow before the games stopped and I think that Harrogate had home advantage,my money would have been on them |
Over 37 matches Barrow were on a far better run than Harrogate before games stopped. | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:55 - May 8 with 8318 views | AtThePeake |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:32 - May 8 by ncfc_chalky |
Harrogate was on a far better run than Barrow before the games stopped and I think that Harrogate had home advantage,my money would have been on them |
Harrogate had picked up one point more than Barrow in their last six games. I think you're over-estimating Barrow's 'dip' in form because they lost to Notts in their last game before the lockdown. |  |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:56 - May 8 with 8308 views | 442Dale |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:55 - May 8 by AtThePeake |
Harrogate had picked up one point more than Barrow in their last six games. I think you're over-estimating Barrow's 'dip' in form because they lost to Notts in their last game before the lockdown. |
That and the fact it isn’t the nicest ground to visit in early March. | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:58 - May 8 with 8279 views | TVOS1907 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 12:32 - May 8 by ncfc_chalky |
Harrogate was on a far better run than Barrow before the games stopped and I think that Harrogate had home advantage,my money would have been on them |
Rotherham were on a far better run than us when they came to Spotland on 7th March.
We beat them 3-1. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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