| Sign it... on 21:03 - Mar 21 with 2181 views | TFP |
| Sign it... on 20:52 - Mar 21 by D_Alien |
Is that a fishing expedition?
Oh, wait a minute... |
No fishing, just interested in honest debate. Which I feel there is a distinct lack of in the current national rhetoric |  | |  |
| Sign it... on 21:05 - Mar 21 with 2173 views | TFP |
| Sign it... on 21:01 - Mar 21 by James1980 |
This link details 70plus laws UK voted against but were foisted on us by the evil EUSSR. Bloomin EU protect people's health and the environment who do they think they are. |
 fantastic | | | |
| Sign it... on 21:06 - Mar 21 with 2171 views | kiwidale |
Greece owes 367 bn
Ireland owes 865 bn
Spain owes 1 Trillion
Italy owes 1 trillion
Britain Germany and France are propping up a monetary union that will collapse if Britain leaves, that is the reason why we will not be allowed to leave. This is all about money democracy and sovereignty comes last when money is concerned. Politicians might seem to be in control of this but they are not neither our politicians or those in Brussels. It can also be argued that this is planned to do that very thing, collapse the European economy. So then who is in control and who is pulling the strings?
Attributed to Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744 - 1812)
“In the present critical stage of American development I would call your attention to the following maxim of the " money lenders " of the Old World : "Let us control the money of a country, and we care not who makes its laws."
by T.C. Daniel, 1857 - 1923 ; letter to President W. Wilson, May 8, 1913; reported in his statement for the joint hearings before the subcommittees of the Committees on Banking and Currency of the Senate and of the House of Representatives, charged with the investigation of rural credits, Sixty-third Congress, second session, part 1, pp. 764, February 16, 1914;
Daniel was the author of Real Money versus Bank Credit as a Substitute for Money, 1911, and of The High Cost of Living: Cause – Remedy, 1912 ; further in the statement pp 771 he quoted:
"Let us control the money of a country and we care not who makes its laws." This is the maxim of the house of Rothschilds, and is the foundation principle of European banks.
This quote was used in The Magazine of Wall Street and Business Analyst(November 10, 1934 p.67) and in Money Creators (1935) by Gertrude M. Coogan.
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes its laws."?
Nathan Rotheschild. Banker
He who controls the money supply of a nation controls the nation.
James A. Garfield 20th American president of the United States
I could go on but those will suffice for now.one final quote.
The greatest legacy one can pass on to one's children and grandchildren is not money or other material things accumulated in one's life, but rather a legacy of character and faith.
Billy Graham evangelist. | |
| This is not the time for bickering.
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| Sign it... on 21:07 - Mar 21 with 2164 views | kiwidale |
I will never be ashamed to call myself British. | |
| This is not the time for bickering.
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| Sign it... on 21:12 - Mar 21 with 2150 views | D_Alien |
| Sign it... on 21:03 - Mar 21 by TFP |
No fishing, just interested in honest debate. Which I feel there is a distinct lack of in the current national rhetoric |
I agree
Each side tends to characterise honest debating points made by the other in a way which stifles genuine debate
For instance, just using a term such as "crashing" out of the EU immediately sets up a presumption of something disastrous
Another example - "a hard border in the island of Ireland" Who wants it? No-one, but it's used as the ultimate bargaining chip with people's livelihoods and indeed, lives on the line. So who is going to enforce a hard border? The UK? Or the EU? In reality, neither will do so, but the political classes are too hung up on their points of principle to give way |  |
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| Sign it... on 21:13 - Mar 21 with 2151 views | TFP |
| Sign it... on 11:42 - Mar 21 by 49thseason |
Since we voted to leave in june 2016 we have paid £40bn net to the EU , are you suggesting that the money is better spent somewhere else other than in the UK? Next time you call an ambulance and they tell you they will be 4 hours unless you have stopped breathing, console yourself that at least some of your taxes have been well spent building roads that lead to nowhere in Italy and bailing out Eurozone banks that have loaned money to projects that will never repay a cent of it. |
I would just like to point out your figure is factually incorrect. The government's own ONS has calculated a net cost of ~8-9bn a year:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinanc
Multiply this by 3 since the referendum and you end up with ~27bn net cost.
In fact once you take into account the benefits you can find that we have benefited greatly financially from EU membership
From the Conference of British Industry:
'A CBI literature review suggests that the net benefit of EU membership to the UK could be in the region of 4-5% of GDP or £62bn-£78bn a year — roughly the economies of the North East and Northern Ireland taken together.'
http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/our-global-future/factsheets/factshee
The treasury's own reports stated that we face a 9% hit to GDP if we leave with no-deal:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46366162
That in itself will no multiple tens of billions off the national budget. How is this a desirable outcome for anyone? | | | |
| Sign it... on 21:23 - Mar 21 with 2109 views | mightydale |
You lost all credit, when you quoted the BBC.
Still waiting for the recession that was suppose to happen after we voted leave
Still waiting for all these job losses that suppose to happen cause we voted leave.
Love to know why we greatly benefited from our new world order dictatorship |  |
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| Sign it... on 21:24 - Mar 21 with 2105 views | TFP |
| Sign it... on 21:12 - Mar 21 by D_Alien |
I agree
Each side tends to characterise honest debating points made by the other in a way which stifles genuine debate
For instance, just using a term such as "crashing" out of the EU immediately sets up a presumption of something disastrous
Another example - "a hard border in the island of Ireland" Who wants it? No-one, but it's used as the ultimate bargaining chip with people's livelihoods and indeed, lives on the line. So who is going to enforce a hard border? The UK? Or the EU? In reality, neither will do so, but the political classes are too hung up on their points of principle to give way |
Exactly, which is why I try and avoid using presumptive language where possible.
I absolutely agree with you that no one wants an Irish border. I also agree we will never 'put up' a border. However this will result in smuggling of goods into the UK, alongside Illegal immigration. This might not be an issue for you, I or the average punter, but to maintain the integrity of UK food, medicine standards etc. we would have to start implementing checks internal checks (or at least in the Irish sea). This is potentially very expensive, time consuming and will be an in issue in signing future trade deals (we won't be able to guarantee if goods from the UK actually conform to British standards).
I fear this would end up with the UK gov effectively kicking out N Ireland because this is not sustainable long term | | | |
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| Sign it... on 21:25 - Mar 21 with 2104 views | D_Alien |
All of the above is based on criteria which will be tomorrow's chip paper
Economic forecasting is a fools game. No-one can predict what trading conditions will apply in 2/5/10 years time
The basic divide is between those who think we'd be safer staying in the EU in an uncertain world, and those who'd rather we were able to take our own chances. All the rhetoric about voters (on either side of the debate) falling for lies is nonsense. It's more of a gut feeling, based on the aforementioned
[Post edited 21 Mar 2019 21:28]
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| Sign it... on 21:26 - Mar 21 with 2099 views | kiwidale |
| Sign it... on 21:23 - Mar 21 by mightydale |
You lost all credit, when you quoted the BBC.
Still waiting for the recession that was suppose to happen after we voted leave
Still waiting for all these job losses that suppose to happen cause we voted leave.
Love to know why we greatly benefited from our new world order dictatorship |
Your reference to "new world order dictatorship " is apt however there are non so blind as those that refuse to see, the willingly blind are easily lead. | |
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| Sign it... on 21:29 - Mar 21 with 2089 views | MoonyDale |
| Sign it... on 19:53 - Mar 21 by NorthernDale |
I voted to leave and I was aware meant leaving the customs union and single market, the remain campaign made it clear as well that what a vote to leave meant. It is an example of the remain camp not accepting the result, like the undemocratic EU. Every time the EU loses a referendum, they get the people to vote again or just ignore the result ans carry on as if nothing as happened.
I cannot understand why people want o remain in an organisation, which is so undemocratic and treats the people of Europe with utter contempt. I do not want to become a forced citizen of the United States of Europe. I would rather be poor and free, then poor and enslaved in an undemocratic EU. |
" they get the people to vote again or just ignore the result ans carry on as if nothing as happened"
You mean like May is doing with her deal vote that's been smashed to bits twice? |  |
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| Sign it... on 21:31 - Mar 21 with 2078 views | D_Alien |
| Sign it... on 21:24 - Mar 21 by TFP |
Exactly, which is why I try and avoid using presumptive language where possible.
I absolutely agree with you that no one wants an Irish border. I also agree we will never 'put up' a border. However this will result in smuggling of goods into the UK, alongside Illegal immigration. This might not be an issue for you, I or the average punter, but to maintain the integrity of UK food, medicine standards etc. we would have to start implementing checks internal checks (or at least in the Irish sea). This is potentially very expensive, time consuming and will be an in issue in signing future trade deals (we won't be able to guarantee if goods from the UK actually conform to British standards).
I fear this would end up with the UK gov effectively kicking out N Ireland because this is not sustainable long term |
Why should we fear N. Ireland eventually seceding from the UK and returning to become part of a greater Ireland? I think that ultimately, that's what will happen whether we remain or leave. I wouldn't put a timescale on it, however | |
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| Sign it... on 21:33 - Mar 21 with 2073 views | 49thseason |
| Sign it... on 20:48 - Mar 21 by TFP |
Can you please name one law that you look forward to being released from on the morning of the 30th March ? Not being sneering, I am genuinely interested. |
How about the ability to support key strategic industries like Port Talbot steel?
"The EU does not allow state support of a business if it would distort competition in the single market.
The final decision on whether state aid is allowed is down to the European Commission." |  | | |
| Sign it... on 21:34 - Mar 21 with 2065 views | D_Alien |
| Sign it... on 21:33 - Mar 21 by 49thseason |
How about the ability to support key strategic industries like Port Talbot steel?
"The EU does not allow state support of a business if it would distort competition in the single market.
The final decision on whether state aid is allowed is down to the European Commission." |
I suspect TFP also missed the irony in my "fishing expedition" post
[Post edited 21 Mar 2019 21:35]
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| Sign it... on 21:37 - Mar 21 with 2057 views | TFP |
| Sign it... on 21:23 - Mar 21 by mightydale |
You lost all credit, when you quoted the BBC.
Still waiting for the recession that was suppose to happen after we voted leave
Still waiting for all these job losses that suppose to happen cause we voted leave.
Love to know why we greatly benefited from our new world order dictatorship |
I quoted the bbc because it quotes from the official report, found here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attac
The bbc here is more easily digestable. The figure remains the same.
In terms of job losses, working in the city I can tell you that they are real:
https://www.ft.com/content/016171be-4a74-11e9-8b7f-d49067e0f50d
You might enjoy a few financial services employees leaving to the continent, but each one is now paying their tax in a different country.
You are correct that a recession didn't occur, but what did occur was UK bond yield's rising, our credit rating downgrading, the £ losing 10% of its value and the FTSE devaluing. Not a recession but not positive news.
I have personally befitted from being able to travel and work freely in Europe. Every company I have worked for has had a multitude of highly skilled EU migrants who may have gone elsewhere if the work restrictions were tighter. My mum was recently cared for after her op on the NHS at Oldham Royal by a pair of polish nurses (who will be forced to return home as they are below the gov's proposed £30k a year salary cap). The average EU migrant pays £2000 a year more a year into the treasury than the average Brit. I like having a larger national budget which pays for the services I and my friends/family use. | | | |
| Sign it... on 21:38 - Mar 21 with 2051 views | 49thseason |
Quiz question ... hands up if you remember voting for Sir Julian Berresford King?
Bonus point to anyone who can tell me who hemis without using google. | | | |
| Sign it... on 21:42 - Mar 21 with 2042 views | D_Alien |
| Sign it... on 21:37 - Mar 21 by TFP |
I quoted the bbc because it quotes from the official report, found here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attac
The bbc here is more easily digestable. The figure remains the same.
In terms of job losses, working in the city I can tell you that they are real:
https://www.ft.com/content/016171be-4a74-11e9-8b7f-d49067e0f50d
You might enjoy a few financial services employees leaving to the continent, but each one is now paying their tax in a different country.
You are correct that a recession didn't occur, but what did occur was UK bond yield's rising, our credit rating downgrading, the £ losing 10% of its value and the FTSE devaluing. Not a recession but not positive news.
I have personally befitted from being able to travel and work freely in Europe. Every company I have worked for has had a multitude of highly skilled EU migrants who may have gone elsewhere if the work restrictions were tighter. My mum was recently cared for after her op on the NHS at Oldham Royal by a pair of polish nurses (who will be forced to return home as they are below the gov's proposed £30k a year salary cap). The average EU migrant pays £2000 a year more a year into the treasury than the average Brit. I like having a larger national budget which pays for the services I and my friends/family use. |
No-one who is already employed here will be forced to go anywhere. In reality, the £30k salary cap will be applied to those seeking to work in the UK in the future without proven and required skills
I agree though, that the government could have set this proposal out in a way that was less confrontational | |
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| Sign it... on 21:42 - Mar 21 with 2040 views | TFP |
| Sign it... on 21:06 - Mar 21 by kiwidale |
Greece owes 367 bn
Ireland owes 865 bn
Spain owes 1 Trillion
Italy owes 1 trillion
Britain Germany and France are propping up a monetary union that will collapse if Britain leaves, that is the reason why we will not be allowed to leave. This is all about money democracy and sovereignty comes last when money is concerned. Politicians might seem to be in control of this but they are not neither our politicians or those in Brussels. It can also be argued that this is planned to do that very thing, collapse the European economy. So then who is in control and who is pulling the strings?
Attributed to Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744 - 1812)
“In the present critical stage of American development I would call your attention to the following maxim of the " money lenders " of the Old World : "Let us control the money of a country, and we care not who makes its laws."
by T.C. Daniel, 1857 - 1923 ; letter to President W. Wilson, May 8, 1913; reported in his statement for the joint hearings before the subcommittees of the Committees on Banking and Currency of the Senate and of the House of Representatives, charged with the investigation of rural credits, Sixty-third Congress, second session, part 1, pp. 764, February 16, 1914;
Daniel was the author of Real Money versus Bank Credit as a Substitute for Money, 1911, and of The High Cost of Living: Cause – Remedy, 1912 ; further in the statement pp 771 he quoted:
"Let us control the money of a country and we care not who makes its laws." This is the maxim of the house of Rothschilds, and is the foundation principle of European banks.
This quote was used in The Magazine of Wall Street and Business Analyst(November 10, 1934 p.67) and in Money Creators (1935) by Gertrude M. Coogan.
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes its laws."?
Nathan Rotheschild. Banker
He who controls the money supply of a nation controls the nation.
James A. Garfield 20th American president of the United States
I could go on but those will suffice for now.one final quote.
The greatest legacy one can pass on to one's children and grandchildren is not money or other material things accumulated in one's life, but rather a legacy of character and faith.
Billy Graham evangelist. |
I am sorry but implying the world is controlled by the 'Rothschilds' is a dog whistle for anti-semitism. This is pure conspiracy theory nonsense. | | | |
| Sign it... on 21:42 - Mar 21 with 2039 views | kiwidale |
| Sign it... on 21:37 - Mar 21 by TFP |
I quoted the bbc because it quotes from the official report, found here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attac
The bbc here is more easily digestable. The figure remains the same.
In terms of job losses, working in the city I can tell you that they are real:
https://www.ft.com/content/016171be-4a74-11e9-8b7f-d49067e0f50d
You might enjoy a few financial services employees leaving to the continent, but each one is now paying their tax in a different country.
You are correct that a recession didn't occur, but what did occur was UK bond yield's rising, our credit rating downgrading, the £ losing 10% of its value and the FTSE devaluing. Not a recession but not positive news.
I have personally befitted from being able to travel and work freely in Europe. Every company I have worked for has had a multitude of highly skilled EU migrants who may have gone elsewhere if the work restrictions were tighter. My mum was recently cared for after her op on the NHS at Oldham Royal by a pair of polish nurses (who will be forced to return home as they are below the gov's proposed £30k a year salary cap). The average EU migrant pays £2000 a year more a year into the treasury than the average Brit. I like having a larger national budget which pays for the services I and my friends/family use. |
Its not just about you. | |
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| Sign it... on 21:47 - Mar 21 with 2019 views | kiwidale |
| Sign it... on 21:42 - Mar 21 by TFP |
I am sorry but implying the world is controlled by the 'Rothschilds' is a dog whistle for anti-semitism. This is pure conspiracy theory nonsense. |
Oh! my post was anti semetic was it? non of the quotes are mine in case you did not notice. | |
| This is not the time for bickering.
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| Sign it... on 21:51 - Mar 21 with 2008 views | TFP |
| Sign it... on 21:42 - Mar 21 by kiwidale |
Its not just about you. |
It isn't, I was replying to the question about how 'we' will benefit from remaining in the EU. since I can't and wouldn't speak on anyone else's behalf I was talking anecdotally. I am also genuinely interested in hearing other people's reasons for leaving on a personal level. I hear a lot of talk of principles, but the most insightful conversations I have with my leave voting colleagues and friends have centered around certain regulations increasing the cost of materials used by their business etc. | | | |
| Sign it... on 21:57 - Mar 21 with 1988 views | TFP |
| Sign it... on 21:47 - Mar 21 by kiwidale |
Oh! my post was anti semetic was it? non of the quotes are mine in case you did not notice. |
Non of the quotes are yours I agree. However the fact you have dragged up a quote by one of the Rothschilds to imply that the world is controlled by a shady elite buys into a very well known anti-jewish conspiracy theory perpetuated by the far right. Please do not give this kind of content any kind of air time. | | | |
| Sign it... on 21:57 - Mar 21 with 1986 views | kiwidale |
| Sign it... on 21:51 - Mar 21 by TFP |
It isn't, I was replying to the question about how 'we' will benefit from remaining in the EU. since I can't and wouldn't speak on anyone else's behalf I was talking anecdotally. I am also genuinely interested in hearing other people's reasons for leaving on a personal level. I hear a lot of talk of principles, but the most insightful conversations I have with my leave voting colleagues and friends have centered around certain regulations increasing the cost of materials used by their business etc. |
Are principles not valid in the discussion, is this just what's in it for me? | |
| This is not the time for bickering.
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| Sign it... on 21:59 - Mar 21 with 1981 views | D_Alien |
| Sign it... on 21:51 - Mar 21 by TFP |
It isn't, I was replying to the question about how 'we' will benefit from remaining in the EU. since I can't and wouldn't speak on anyone else's behalf I was talking anecdotally. I am also genuinely interested in hearing other people's reasons for leaving on a personal level. I hear a lot of talk of principles, but the most insightful conversations I have with my leave voting colleagues and friends have centered around certain regulations increasing the cost of materials used by their business etc. |
As i've already alluded to, the minutiae of specific trading benefits aren't worthy of basing anything on - conditions change, that's the only thing of which we can be certain
It really does come down to a gut feeling about how the UK should see itself in future. It will always be "part of Europe" (if you get my continental drift), but not being part of the EU doesn't mean we'd become inward looking - rather precisely the opposite
I guess you can ascertain which side of the debate i'm on, but it's not based on short-term economics but quite simply on a massive distrust of all political classes. I'd simply rather we had the flexibility to change our trading circumstances outside the EU bloc, whilst maintaining a friendly and coherent relationship with it. And i suspect, the other 27 will be glad once we're out! | |
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| Sign it... on 22:06 - Mar 21 with 1959 views | rochdale_ranger |
| Sign it... on 21:57 - Mar 21 by TFP |
Non of the quotes are yours I agree. However the fact you have dragged up a quote by one of the Rothschilds to imply that the world is controlled by a shady elite buys into a very well known anti-jewish conspiracy theory perpetuated by the far right. Please do not give this kind of content any kind of air time. |
The prominent anti semites are all on the left these days pal. You have missed the cultural shift. |  | | |
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