| The undisclosed fee thing 02:12 - Jan 24 with 13873 views | FalingeParka |
Not really on is it? Discuss...
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 02:26 - Jan 24 with 9110 views | kiwidale |
Its the way we always do it you know it will be common knowledge for those in the game who want to know. On the other hand just how much would Blackpool have wanted if the Rafferty fee was known? I suspect we might have got him free if it wasn't for the fee we got for Rafferty. |  |
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 02:35 - Jan 24 with 9097 views | FalingeParka |
Naturally I understand what you're saying Kiwi but I think that's too much overthinking of this or any deal. Things find their their level in any business transaction and those in the know, as you say, are actually so before the deal is done in any event.
The point is from a fan's point of view, not a negotiator's. We are invited, at Arsenal for example as much as Dale, to think about cost at all times. On that basis, we should be told about income in the same way. | |
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 03:03 - Jan 24 with 9085 views | FalingeParka |
I fully understand the need for contractual matters to be private before things are signed. AOK. However, it is not the case that you make yourself necessarily vulnerable to future poor transfer deals if you attempt to foolishly try to keep the last one private. Why not say X went for X to supporters and buyers alike? It doesn't mean Y is in future a freebie.
And anyway, you've got me off the point. It's the coyness and archness that pisses people off. Just say it - Preston paid this much - like any figure at all is gonna be a big surprise no? You guess it - it's gonna be pretty much bang on. It's a turn off this 'it's a big bollox running a football club thing' and you little supporter cannot know the truth. It's just crap. [Post edited 24 Jan 2019 3:18]
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 03:16 - Jan 24 with 9080 views | kiwidale |
| The undisclosed fee thing on 02:35 - Jan 24 by FalingeParka |
Naturally I understand what you're saying Kiwi but I think that's too much overthinking of this or any deal. Things find their their level in any business transaction and those in the know, as you say, are actually so before the deal is done in any event.
The point is from a fan's point of view, not a negotiator's. We are invited, at Arsenal for example as much as Dale, to think about cost at all times. On that basis, we should be told about income in the same way. |
Its a frustration for us fans who want to know these things, how else can we determine if we got value for money, we also feel as if they are our players as much as the shiny arses in the board room. I guess the reasons for keeping it in house are valid and not just to cock a snoot at us. It wont stop the grumbles when it comes out in the wash Im not sure the clubs who deal with us give a hoot about our policy of keeping it secret Portsmouth certainly didn't when the 150,000 was disclosed by them it was common knowledge in Pompey. | |
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 03:38 - Jan 24 with 9070 views | FalingeParka |
Wind it back 7 years and you'll get the point. How much did Dawson actually go for, into the bank balance after all add ons? We don't know. Why are fans infantalised as if small club football finance was some kind of weird alchemic mystery they couldn't understand. Why is everything a secret? It's hardly big time. Why not say the wage bill is this, the club shop loses that etc.. Why not just come out with it? | |
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 06:16 - Jan 24 with 9015 views | kiwidale |
| The undisclosed fee thing on 03:38 - Jan 24 by FalingeParka |
Wind it back 7 years and you'll get the point. How much did Dawson actually go for, into the bank balance after all add ons? We don't know. Why are fans infantalised as if small club football finance was some kind of weird alchemic mystery they couldn't understand. Why is everything a secret? It's hardly big time. Why not say the wage bill is this, the club shop loses that etc.. Why not just come out with it? |
I agree its pocket money in the scheme of things its not as if we get the money up front. The fact that 7 years later we still don't know the figures. I guess some one who can read a balance sheet or set of accounts will be able to work it out including agents and selling/buying clubs, it remains a frustration to the fans who pay their money leaving a feeling of alienation which begs the question what's the point of it all. | |
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 06:18 - Jan 24 with 9011 views | fitzochris |
| The undisclosed fee thing on 03:38 - Jan 24 by FalingeParka |
Wind it back 7 years and you'll get the point. How much did Dawson actually go for, into the bank balance after all add ons? We don't know. Why are fans infantalised as if small club football finance was some kind of weird alchemic mystery they couldn't understand. Why is everything a secret? It's hardly big time. Why not say the wage bill is this, the club shop loses that etc.. Why not just come out with it? |
The club’s annual accounts reveal a lot of this information. |  |
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 07:44 - Jan 24 with 8916 views | truenorth |
How much do you earn FalingeParka?
Same principle.
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 07:57 - Jan 24 with 8887 views | seasidedale |
Transfer fees have always been secret, usually when fee is revealed its an estimate, its been like this for as long as I have watched football (49 years) I think clubs are allowed to reveal fees if they wish. | | | |
| The undisclosed fee thing on 09:03 - Jan 24 with 8777 views | nordenblue |
| The undisclosed fee thing on 07:44 - Jan 24 by truenorth |
How much do you earn FalingeParka?
Same principle.
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Who mentioned anyones earnings,sure he was talking about transfer fees? | | | |
| The undisclosed fee thing on 09:16 - Jan 24 with 8743 views | SuddenLad |
| The undisclosed fee thing on 03:03 - Jan 24 by FalingeParka |
I fully understand the need for contractual matters to be private before things are signed. AOK. However, it is not the case that you make yourself necessarily vulnerable to future poor transfer deals if you attempt to foolishly try to keep the last one private. Why not say X went for X to supporters and buyers alike? It doesn't mean Y is in future a freebie.
And anyway, you've got me off the point. It's the coyness and archness that pisses people off. Just say it - Preston paid this much - like any figure at all is gonna be a big surprise no? You guess it - it's gonna be pretty much bang on. It's a turn off this 'it's a big bollox running a football club thing' and you little supporter cannot know the truth. It's just crap. [Post edited 24 Jan 2019 3:18]
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It's an agreement between the selling and buying club. If you want to know the exact cost/expenditure, it's all in the club accounts, which are made available to all shareholders. It's not a secret and is never meant to be. It's a confidential business transaction. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 09:42 - Jan 24 with 8671 views | FalingeParka |
Thanks for replies. All good ones.
The point really is about relations with fans. If the club (any club) was a bit more upfront about it, then we'd be more supportive wouldn't we? | |
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 09:56 - Jan 24 with 8639 views | dingdangblue |
I know what we got is 100% more than what we would have got in 4 months time. |  |
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 10:13 - Jan 24 with 8595 views | dawlishdale |
| The undisclosed fee thing on 09:16 - Jan 24 by SuddenLad |
It's an agreement between the selling and buying club. If you want to know the exact cost/expenditure, it's all in the club accounts, which are made available to all shareholders. It's not a secret and is never meant to be. It's a confidential business transaction. |
But it isn't.
If you examine the accounts, it doesn't itemise how much we actually get for a specific player. It's all lumped together. So; if we sell (as we have done this month) 3 or 4 players, it will be impossible to tell from the accounts to say just how much each sale brought in. | | | |
| The undisclosed fee thing on 10:16 - Jan 24 with 8582 views | SuddenLad |
| The undisclosed fee thing on 10:13 - Jan 24 by dawlishdale |
But it isn't.
If you examine the accounts, it doesn't itemise how much we actually get for a specific player. It's all lumped together. So; if we sell (as we have done this month) 3 or 4 players, it will be impossible to tell from the accounts to say just how much each sale brought in. |
In which case, at a shareholders meeting, (as a shareholder) ask the specific question as to how the accounts are 'broken down' and itemised in respect of individual deals. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 10:25 - Jan 24 with 8561 views | dawlishdale |
| The undisclosed fee thing on 10:16 - Jan 24 by SuddenLad |
In which case, at a shareholders meeting, (as a shareholder) ask the specific question as to how the accounts are 'broken down' and itemised in respect of individual deals. |
Which underlines my point that it isn't available from merely looking at the accounts.
Thank you for confirming that you were wrong. | | | |
| The undisclosed fee thing on 10:28 - Jan 24 with 8550 views | DaleiLama |
| The undisclosed fee thing on 09:42 - Jan 24 by FalingeParka |
Thanks for replies. All good ones.
The point really is about relations with fans. If the club (any club) was a bit more upfront about it, then we'd be more supportive wouldn't we? |
I suspect pre-internet these things were rarely even discussed or maybe just amongst a few small groups.
Read an interesting article in the Times before Xmas about "having it now", which the article suggested was in full swing by the 80s but probably had it's roots in the 60s. The "need" is firmly established today, and is a trend that builds momentum by the day, with a seemingly growing societal expectation that the individual should have whatever they want whenever they want it. Not aimed at you FP, just a general observation. The more our curiosity is fed the hungrier we get as consumers of information. Hand on heart, how does a transfer fee affect any fan? A transfer affects the finances of the club (which historically have been managed well), affects the team on the pitch on a Saturday and discussions of whether or not we got vfm for a player (which is subjective anyway) and will have a bearing on where we finish in the league (positively and negatively). But is the absolute value really any of our business?
The point you make about goodwill is an excellent one. Communication is vitally important. It is something RAFC does, but which I would suggest most fans feel it does because it has to and only tells what it wants to.
We have a new regime. There is supposed to be a better flow of communication with the new regime. Let's judge it on merit. |  |
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 10:47 - Jan 24 with 8498 views | seasidedale |
Dont forget transfers are subject to VAT so clubs dont want to band fees about | | | |
| The undisclosed fee thing on 10:59 - Jan 24 with 8474 views | TomRAFC |
It's common practice across the game these days. When you fold at poker you don't show what cards you were willing to fold on. Clubs don't want other clubs to know how much they are willing to sell for, or how much they are willing to spend. I'd be very interested to know what fees were being accepted, but it still wouldn't tell us how many bids we turned down, or how much the player wanted to go, or a lot of the other details we're intruiged by.
As Fitz said, a lot of the clubs financial information is available if you want to seek it out. | |
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 11:47 - Jan 24 with 8396 views | FalingeParka |
| The undisclosed fee thing on 10:13 - Jan 24 by dawlishdale |
But it isn't.
If you examine the accounts, it doesn't itemise how much we actually get for a specific player. It's all lumped together. So; if we sell (as we have done this month) 3 or 4 players, it will be impossible to tell from the accounts to say just how much each sale brought in. |
Thank you. | |
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 12:10 - Jan 24 with 8335 views | Brierls |
Are Dale so different to other clubs in this respect?
It doesn't really bother me to be honest. As fans we can't influence how much we receive for a player, nor can we do anything about it after the event.
This isn't directed at you FP, but the need of some fans to know everything is a bit bizarre. |  | | |
| The undisclosed fee thing on 12:28 - Jan 24 with 8271 views | FalingeParka |
I really don't buy the idea that telling the world Rafferty for example went for say 50k in any way gives away what the club might sell Camps for i.e. somehow reveals anything that could be taken advantage of. | |
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 12:39 - Jan 24 with 8242 views | FalingeParka |
| The undisclosed fee thing on 12:10 - Jan 24 by Brierls |
Are Dale so different to other clubs in this respect?
It doesn't really bother me to be honest. As fans we can't influence how much we receive for a player, nor can we do anything about it after the event.
This isn't directed at you FP, but the need of some fans to know everything is a bit bizarre. |
Not the point Brierls, and I guess I'm not making mine too well. I don't want to know everything, nor do I think we could influence actual transfer fees. I'm trying to suggest that actually letting us know after the fact the bald facts of a transfer might allow us to understand and support better. | |
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| The undisclosed fee thing on 13:03 - Jan 24 with 8178 views | FalingeParka |
It just seems weird and as if everyone is frightened/paranoid by the numbers. Why not just say, yeah we got 75 for Raff, 75 was what we came to. Like you would do talking about what you paid your builder. It's not clever to be secretive about what you do in business, that's for chisellers. You don't succeed that way. | |
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