| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? 22:12 - Aug 21 with 7152 views | dawlishdale |
Well...tonight was a real wake up call to the whole football club. From top to bottom, from the Chairman to the tea lady.
We were simply battered from start to finish, and to be honest, couldn't have grumbled if we'd lost by 7 or 8, such was the difference between two teams competing in the same division.
I was wondering if I'd ever seen such disparity between 2 teams before...I can only think of a couple of games last season that came remotely close...namely Wigan & Blackburn at home...but to be honest, tonight made those games look close.
So many individual errors that it's not worth going into too much detail, but surely, our delivery from dead balls must be a real concern to the Management? I lost count of the number of free kicks or corners given to us that led directly to a chance for Barnsley.
Is it the players who are not good enough, or the coaching that is falling short?
Having said all that, well played Barnsley. One of the most complete performances you could hope to see at this level. |  | | |  |
| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 22:15 - Aug 21 with 7100 views | SuddenLad |
Probably the best performance I have seen from a League One side at Spotland. Immense in all departments and well worth their win. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 22:32 - Aug 21 with 6875 views | SandyDrum |
The ironic cheers that went up by every Dale fan in the ground when McGahey finally stopped taking free kicks summed up tonight for me.
Barnsley were fantastic, we got everything wrong. | |
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| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 22:47 - Aug 21 with 6748 views | DaleiLama |
I think if you fielded a Dale best XI from history when all were at their peak Barnsley would have still run through them. They looked like a ruthless unit - we looked like boys against men. Fair play to Barnsley. It will be an outstanding team that keeps them off the top at the end of the season. Wish we had Moore. Or even more for that matter. |  |
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| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 22:59 - Aug 21 with 6659 views | Sandyman |
Earlier this year we played Tottenham Hotspur at Spotland. We gave them a right good run and more than deserved a draw. Tonight, Barnsley ripped us to pieces in a way that Spurs never got near. As fantastic as Barnsley were, one has to question the lack of pace, defensive awareness and commitment of Dale tonight. Players budget up 30% and this is what we get? 2 home games, 8 conceded, most of them due to pisspoor defending from crosses. We score one. A penalty. It may well be to soon in the season to set the alarm bells ringing but, come on. We've been beasted twice at home by teams who look leagues above us. Over to you Keith.
PS: Great ref tonight. Would welcome him to Spotland every week. |  | | |
| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 23:02 - Aug 21 with 6622 views | James1980 |
Did we really win go through pre season unbeaten? | |
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| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 23:58 - Aug 21 with 6396 views | con_dale |
As much as Barnsley were good, Keith’s team selection helped them look good!
Why pick a team to try stop your opponents playing and not pick a team that can hurt the opponents?
Our bench tonight was the strongest bench I’ve seen in years, 4 outfield players that was on it are far more creative than anyone on the pitch.
Please Keith pick a team to win a game and not so negative, if we had lost 4-3 tonight fans wouldn’t be walking away as negative as they are. |  | | |
| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 01:49 - Aug 22 with 6202 views | kiwidale |
| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 22:47 - Aug 21 by DaleiLama |
I think if you fielded a Dale best XI from history when all were at their peak Barnsley would have still run through them. They looked like a ruthless unit - we looked like boys against men. Fair play to Barnsley. It will be an outstanding team that keeps them off the top at the end of the season. Wish we had Moore. Or even more for that matter. |
I posted this on another thread but its worth repeating here.
The best Dale strikers in living memory have been Henderson Lambert Holt Murry and Jenkins if Hill had them now I wouldn't be surprised if he played 5 3 2 with the players mentioned playing across the back. | |
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| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 02:14 - Aug 22 with 6191 views | Brierls |
| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 01:49 - Aug 22 by kiwidale |
I posted this on another thread but its worth repeating here.
The best Dale strikers in living memory have been Henderson Lambert Holt Murry and Jenkins if Hill had them now I wouldn't be surprised if he played 5 3 2 with the players mentioned playing across the back. |
It isn’t worth repeating because it’s a complete and utter bullshit statement.
Back to the OP, because that has some basis...there was a huge gulf in class, I thought Barnsley were superb tonight. Absolutely terrifying going forward and dominant in midfield and defence on the rare occasions they were tested. I thought Posh were good going forward but Barnsley were on another level.
Dale? I’m finding it hard to judge our performance, such was the difference in class. |  | | |
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| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 03:20 - Aug 22 with 6150 views | kiwidale |
| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 02:14 - Aug 22 by Brierls |
It isn’t worth repeating because it’s a complete and utter bullshit statement.
Back to the OP, because that has some basis...there was a huge gulf in class, I thought Barnsley were superb tonight. Absolutely terrifying going forward and dominant in midfield and defence on the rare occasions they were tested. I thought Posh were good going forward but Barnsley were on another level.
Dale? I’m finding it hard to judge our performance, such was the difference in class. |
You are absolutely correct Brierls it was a bullshit statement, did you really think I was being serious? It was said firmly tounge in cheek to highlight what I see as the problem and its a recurring problem we saw it pre Christmas last year when Hill over complicated his tactics formation and selections it took us to the brink of relegation only arrested when Hill saw what everybody else saw and settled on a formation and line up that clearly worked. That he appears to be doing the same again? and I'm prepared to stand corrected has me puzzled. One thing I will guarantee is if it leads to a repeat of last season Bazinga's banner might finally get an airing. [Post edited 22 Aug 2018 3:22]
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| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 06:09 - Aug 22 with 6057 views | fitzochris |
Barnsley were excellent, of that there is no question. They picked us apart from the first whistle and had a header off the bar within seven minutes. Their pressing meant every time we got the ball we invariably got caught in possession or lost it through a poor pass.
However, there was a lot we did that wasn’t typical of us. The statuesque movement in claiming second balls in defence and attack was frustratingly poor. We genuinely looked slow, and that’s not something I associate with us under Keith Hill. There were occasions where we could have easily claimed a loose ball, nothing to do with Barnsley, but the key man was rooted. I don’t know if that’s people being unsure of their positions or what, but it had nothing to do with Barnsley being excellent.
Then there was the leginess of Perkins and Williams in midfield. Far too slow for what Barnsley had on offer.
The other thing is Ian Henderson. Why was he being deployed behind Done and Calvin? He is wasted there. In the first half he was frustrating to watch and it’s mainly not his fault.
So yeah, Barnsley were excellent, but there is no way we should shrug off some very uncharacteristic Dale performances for a Keith Hill side. [Post edited 22 Aug 2018 6:11]
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| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 07:43 - Aug 22 with 5830 views | pnc4eva1 |
After driving for hours to get to and from the game I'm onlydisappointed afterast night's game.
Barnsley are by far one of the best teams I've seen playing against Dale. They were fast, decisive, inventive and clinical. The woodwork kept the score to a minimum.
Dale were outclassed. The back five system didn't work as no one covered the wingback going forward. The midfield was easily over run and the forwards, despite more movement, received no service.
For the first two goals some referees could have given dale free kicks. Last night's ref rightly chose not to do so. Dale players were caught complaining instead of chasing back.
Our back five were Moore's bitches throughout the game.
We've not played three of the season's predicted playoff hopefuls (Burton, Peterborough and Barnsley). We have got four points. Our defence looks all at sea in the 532 formation. In simple terms it's going to be a hard season but I still have faith in Hill to sort it out. |  |
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| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 10:45 - Aug 22 with 5330 views | Creepy |
I think the nature of the two home defeats has been the concerning thing albeit against two teams who are promotion favourites, unbeaten and with resources way beyond ours. When I looked at the August fixtures, I honestly thought that 7 points would be a really good return. A win against Walsall and we'll have those 7 points so not all doom and gloom. |  | | |
| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 10:49 - Aug 22 with 5311 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 06:09 - Aug 22 by fitzochris |
Barnsley were excellent, of that there is no question. They picked us apart from the first whistle and had a header off the bar within seven minutes. Their pressing meant every time we got the ball we invariably got caught in possession or lost it through a poor pass.
However, there was a lot we did that wasn’t typical of us. The statuesque movement in claiming second balls in defence and attack was frustratingly poor. We genuinely looked slow, and that’s not something I associate with us under Keith Hill. There were occasions where we could have easily claimed a loose ball, nothing to do with Barnsley, but the key man was rooted. I don’t know if that’s people being unsure of their positions or what, but it had nothing to do with Barnsley being excellent.
Then there was the leginess of Perkins and Williams in midfield. Far too slow for what Barnsley had on offer.
The other thing is Ian Henderson. Why was he being deployed behind Done and Calvin? He is wasted there. In the first half he was frustrating to watch and it’s mainly not his fault.
So yeah, Barnsley were excellent, but there is no way we should shrug off some very uncharacteristic Dale performances for a Keith Hill side. [Post edited 22 Aug 2018 6:11]
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| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 11:27 - Aug 22 with 5192 views | 49thseason |
Man for man, we lost every competition on the pitch last night. The most worrying aspect was the total lack of fight as evidenced by the lack of fouls (7) and a single shot on target and only 6 in total. Our defence gets a lot of stick but in reality its a problem with forwards. We simply do not have the ability to prevent teams from throwing players towards our penalty area because our forwards do not present sufficient threat. There is also little outlet from defence or midfield because the front three are almost entirely static resulting in a long (ish) ball to Andrew which, even if he wins it, has very little chance of finding a blue shirt. We no longer have any real width, the system demands that wingbacks both defend and attack and last night they were found out in both departments, unable to put a decent tackle in and incapable of delivering decent crosses.
Put simply the system does not work with the personnel available. We have not had a proper left back for ages, we only have one forward capable of scoring a decent quantity of goals and he now seems to play in midfield. Neither Andrew or Wilbraham would get a look in if Steve Davis had managed to stay fit. As Barnsley demonstrated so capably last night the game now involves 90 minutes of continuous movement from 10 outfield players, each expecting a pass and knowing exactly what their next move will be when it arrives. By comparison, the whole Rochdale team are like statues. There is a lack of intelligence, too many players take the ball facing their own goal, too many want to pass backwards and often have to, simply because others are not prepared to gamble and make a run into space.
I can forgive individual mistakes from young players and from players who give 110% of their enthusiasm but the collective mindset is not now one of a winning team, we have become a team that wants to survive not thrive. Home form is dreadful and has been for the last year and a half and needs to be addressed asap. No Fear has been replaced by worry and doubt, this is not a bad side, but it's not good enough bearing in mind the advances other clubs have made over the last 2 years. Maybe our luck has run out. Maybe we need some new thinking at the top. But 9 home wins from the last 35 attempts is simply not good enough to maintain a L1 club. |  | | |
| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 11:31 - Aug 22 with 5167 views | TVOS1907 |
| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 11:27 - Aug 22 by 49thseason |
Man for man, we lost every competition on the pitch last night. The most worrying aspect was the total lack of fight as evidenced by the lack of fouls (7) and a single shot on target and only 6 in total. Our defence gets a lot of stick but in reality its a problem with forwards. We simply do not have the ability to prevent teams from throwing players towards our penalty area because our forwards do not present sufficient threat. There is also little outlet from defence or midfield because the front three are almost entirely static resulting in a long (ish) ball to Andrew which, even if he wins it, has very little chance of finding a blue shirt. We no longer have any real width, the system demands that wingbacks both defend and attack and last night they were found out in both departments, unable to put a decent tackle in and incapable of delivering decent crosses.
Put simply the system does not work with the personnel available. We have not had a proper left back for ages, we only have one forward capable of scoring a decent quantity of goals and he now seems to play in midfield. Neither Andrew or Wilbraham would get a look in if Steve Davis had managed to stay fit. As Barnsley demonstrated so capably last night the game now involves 90 minutes of continuous movement from 10 outfield players, each expecting a pass and knowing exactly what their next move will be when it arrives. By comparison, the whole Rochdale team are like statues. There is a lack of intelligence, too many players take the ball facing their own goal, too many want to pass backwards and often have to, simply because others are not prepared to gamble and make a run into space.
I can forgive individual mistakes from young players and from players who give 110% of their enthusiasm but the collective mindset is not now one of a winning team, we have become a team that wants to survive not thrive. Home form is dreadful and has been for the last year and a half and needs to be addressed asap. No Fear has been replaced by worry and doubt, this is not a bad side, but it's not good enough bearing in mind the advances other clubs have made over the last 2 years. Maybe our luck has run out. Maybe we need some new thinking at the top. But 9 home wins from the last 35 attempts is simply not good enough to maintain a L1 club. |
Good post, but what do you mean by 'Maybe our luck has run out'?
In what contexts have we have had 'luck'? |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 12:25 - Aug 22 with 5005 views | 49thseason |
| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 11:31 - Aug 22 by TVOS1907 |
Good post, but what do you mean by 'Maybe our luck has run out'?
In what contexts have we have had 'luck'? |
Our "luck" in managing to find players who added to the team without spending money. .. Henderson, NML, Lund, Davis, (when fit). Our "luck" in being able to find winning combinations of players and tactics. Our "luck" in converting players from one position to another (Done, Bunney) and not being found out too often. Our "luck" in being able to create an effective side from kids, misfits, journeymen and broken toys. We have some good players and some OK players, I can't point to a poor player but they have to be a team and know their jobs and be able to do that job effectively and sufficiently often to keep the points tally ticking over. We need a settled side, the continual swapping and changing is not working in our favour, therein lies the "luck" . and as Gary Player always said, "the harder I practice the luckier I seem to get". We need to decide on a 1st 11 , play them in a proper system they can understand and stop pretending that we can play like Brasil. | | | |
| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 12:33 - Aug 22 with 4973 views | TVOS1907 |
| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 12:25 - Aug 22 by 49thseason |
Our "luck" in managing to find players who added to the team without spending money. .. Henderson, NML, Lund, Davis, (when fit). Our "luck" in being able to find winning combinations of players and tactics. Our "luck" in converting players from one position to another (Done, Bunney) and not being found out too often. Our "luck" in being able to create an effective side from kids, misfits, journeymen and broken toys. We have some good players and some OK players, I can't point to a poor player but they have to be a team and know their jobs and be able to do that job effectively and sufficiently often to keep the points tally ticking over. We need a settled side, the continual swapping and changing is not working in our favour, therein lies the "luck" . and as Gary Player always said, "the harder I practice the luckier I seem to get". We need to decide on a 1st 11 , play them in a proper system they can understand and stop pretending that we can play like Brasil. |
Thanks for the clarification, but I think calling it 'luck' is too simplistic, particularly in getting players like Henderson, NML, etc. They were also available to other clubs.
You could counter it with the 'bad luck' of signing players like Jon Shaw, Jordan Williams, etc, on whom we spent money. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Biggest gulf in class between 2 teams? on 12:40 - Aug 22 with 4937 views | boromat |
I agree biggest gap I've seen since we've been in League One and unfortunately I think we're going to have to start getting used to it. There is now a much larger gap between the standard League One/Two clubs like ourselves and the clubs that flirt with the Championship for a few years before coming down. It's all down to the way money falls down the footballing pyramid. | |
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