| I'm at a loss... 21:31 - Apr 24 with 11817 views | SandyDrum |
We desperately need a win and we have a striker and a playmaker sat on the bench.
Gillam hasn't touched the ball and Raffle in centre mid isn't working.
Baffling substitutions yet again. |  |
| Wish I'd chosen a different username... |
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| I'm at a loss... on 17:05 - Apr 25 with 2342 views | 442Dale |
| I'm at a loss... on 17:00 - Apr 25 by dingdangblue |
No team?
So you expect Hill to keep selling/losing our best players every season or every other season and replace them with free transfers on the lowest wages at our level , whilst having success on the pitch and also making the club a profit or at least not to be in debt? And if he doesn't do it 1 season out of 10 he needs to explain himself? [Post edited 25 Apr 2018 17:05]
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Think all fans would like to know what he thinks about the mistakes he made alongside the known restraints with which we work. Any sensible fan knew a season of struggle would come around eventually, but most are aware that there was no need to be where we are in the league right now if better decisions were made before Christmas. |  |
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| I'm at a loss... on 17:06 - Apr 25 with 2334 views | rochdaleriddler |
| I'm at a loss... on 16:23 - Apr 25 by tony_roch975 |
Agree with your 3rd sentence - even last night half a dozen position/personnel changes is probably beyond the abilities of our squad to cope with first time out. Question is why do folk want to hear a 'frank account' from Hill - if he says it's because money talks, we don't have any so we're stuck with the least successful players which means we will struggle, will that satisfy or will the only acceptable response be him saying how he failed, got it wrong, made mistakes etc. |
Money talks, but Accrington are going to be champions with a low budget, Burnley have a low budget and will probably finish 7th. we have done well over many years. Money has been wasted this season on recruits that aren't up to the job |  |
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| I'm at a loss... on 17:12 - Apr 25 with 2320 views | dingdangblue |
| I'm at a loss... on 17:05 - Apr 25 by 442Dale |
Think all fans would like to know what he thinks about the mistakes he made alongside the known restraints with which we work. Any sensible fan knew a season of struggle would come around eventually, but most are aware that there was no need to be where we are in the league right now if better decisions were made before Christmas. |
We didn't have Humphrys or Delaney before Christmas and both have played key roles in our revival - I don't need Hill to go through every team selection or formation with me at the end of the season. |  |
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| I'm at a loss... on 17:13 - Apr 25 with 2315 views | sweetcorn |
| I'm at a loss... on 12:45 - Apr 25 by TVOS1907 |
The fact you don’t know if Tony Ellis is still at the club says it all. |
Tbf im sure theres a large amount of the fan base who don’t know if tony ellis is here, im one of them..
I couldnt tell you anything about the club outside of the playing staff, dunphy and hill(&beech) and why would i need to know? I come to watch the games and support the club.. |  |
| Leader of the little gang of immature cretins. |
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| I'm at a loss... on 17:14 - Apr 25 with 2310 views | 442Dale |
| I'm at a loss... on 17:12 - Apr 25 by dingdangblue |
We didn't have Humphrys or Delaney before Christmas and both have played key roles in our revival - I don't need Hill to go through every team selection or formation with me at the end of the season. |
No. Nor did we have Cannon in the side much, Henderson up front every week. You might not, others might. We saw last night how a sense of accountability makes supporters appreciate the situation better, similarly when we have an insight into injury issues. | |
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| I'm at a loss... on 17:16 - Apr 25 with 2309 views | dingdangblue |
| I'm at a loss... on 17:06 - Apr 25 by rochdaleriddler |
Money talks, but Accrington are going to be champions with a low budget, Burnley have a low budget and will probably finish 7th. we have done well over many years. Money has been wasted this season on recruits that aren't up to the job |
Yes and Accrington have also struggled in recent seasons and Burnley have been relegated. It's called a cycle. We've had 10 seasons of success under Hill TEN SEASONS - but god forbid he has a bad one. | |
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| I'm at a loss... on 17:31 - Apr 25 with 2280 views | 442Dale |
| I'm at a loss... on 17:16 - Apr 25 by dingdangblue |
Yes and Accrington have also struggled in recent seasons and Burnley have been relegated. It's called a cycle. We've had 10 seasons of success under Hill TEN SEASONS - but god forbid he has a bad one. |
Are there really that many who are saying he isn’t allowed a bad season? A lot of the questions this time around have been asked during the good seasons too.
The lack of focus on the centre of the defence cost us for two seasons, many wondered why... ironically we have almost found a solution for that now! | |
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| I'm at a loss... on 17:34 - Apr 25 with 2278 views | aleanddale |
| I'm at a loss... on 14:47 - Apr 25 by fitzochris |
Because a lot of your posts have dealt in ifs, buts and maybes. We are all aware of the permutations of the results going forward.
I’ll not berate you for being optimistic, nor for your enthusiasm, it’s just that I’m more of a realist. I’m neither optimistic nor pessimistic. I’m just basing my expectations on the facts as they stand. Others are too, and they are no less of a supporter of the club for doing so. I don’t extend this to those who are being vitriolic about the team, by the way.
If we are playing the ‘ifs and buts’ card, then you could look at it the other way, in that last night’s point was great only because Oldham lost — IF they had drawn or won, the point wouldn’t have been so great at all.
See what I mean? Ifs and buts don’t change the facts.
And to add to that, IF we do pull off the great escape (and I want us to as much as you do), it cannot gloss over the failings on and off the pitch this season. That’s for the manager and the club to digest over the summer.
I’m as realistic as anyone when it comes to our place in the football world, but the FACT remains that the team has regressed compared to last season. It would be great to hear Hill’s own thoughts on why he believes this is the case, when the season has finished.
The pitch debacle and the apathy of the club towards fans has been done to death, but still cannot be ignored.
So let's get behind the team, by all means, but not switch off to everything else. |
Thanks for the explanation Fitz, that's appreciated.
I don't get it 100% as we all get excited and look forward and that creates variables for discussion.
The 3 ifs I posted on another thread ( TVOS has the same issue with me and pulled me up ) was for 3 outcomes win lose or draw. One was going to happen.
My point then was that regardless of each outcome we were still fighting probably to the final day.
I guess I cant articulate myself in word form as well as most.
If you could be more patient or even try and ignore my posts that might help all of us I don't want to stop contributing.
onward to Oxford.
Up the Dale. | | | |
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| I'm at a loss... on 17:43 - Apr 25 with 2259 views | fitzochris |
| I'm at a loss... on 17:00 - Apr 25 by dingdangblue |
No team?
So you expect Hill to keep selling/losing our best players every season or every other season and replace them with free transfers on the lowest wages at our level , whilst having success on the pitch and also making the club a profit or at least not to be in debt? And if he doesn't do it 1 season out of 10 he needs to explain himself? [Post edited 25 Apr 2018 17:05]
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DDB you've picked up the ball and started playing a different sport here.
To say a team is due a bad season is to suggest otherworldly forces are to blame. Like, no matter what they do they will have a bad season because they were due one. I don't believe in that.
If a team has a bad season it is down to very worldly reasons.
Now, if our bad season is down to the reasons you suggest, then fair enough. I want to hear from Hill, not to hold him to account, but because I'm interested.
I'm interested because he has built a reputation at this club at building overachieving sides. His ego is also based around that. I imagine this season will leave him hurting.
That's why I want to hear his account. This season is unusual by his standards.
Not everything is about having a dig at someone or getting them to justify themselves to satisfy the mob. |  |
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| I'm at a loss... on 17:45 - Apr 25 with 2251 views | fitzochris |
| I'm at a loss... on 17:34 - Apr 25 by aleanddale |
Thanks for the explanation Fitz, that's appreciated.
I don't get it 100% as we all get excited and look forward and that creates variables for discussion.
The 3 ifs I posted on another thread ( TVOS has the same issue with me and pulled me up ) was for 3 outcomes win lose or draw. One was going to happen.
My point then was that regardless of each outcome we were still fighting probably to the final day.
I guess I cant articulate myself in word form as well as most.
If you could be more patient or even try and ignore my posts that might help all of us I don't want to stop contributing.
onward to Oxford.
Up the Dale. |
I don't want to ignore your posts. I was just chipping into the debate from a different perspective. | |
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| I'm at a loss... on 18:01 - Apr 25 with 2222 views | ColDale |
For all the ifs and maybes, if we manage to stay up, it'll be one that will be looked back on historically.
The 86-87 season was on the face of it a terrible season. We got to the end of 86 and had won only two games all season so far - enough to make this season seem like a promotion bid. There were times that season we were dire, and all that at a much lower level.
Of course, we didn't have the insight into the running of the club then like we do now, but anyone i speak to about that season only does so in glowing terms. People talk about Simmonds, the win at Preston, the comeback against Torquay to snatch a 3-3 draw, the Wakenshaw volley against Halifax, the Stockport game, and a great escape before great escapes were even considered. No one talks about the two wins before January, or blowing injury time leads to Lincoln or going 3-0 down to Torquay at home or Peter Conning. They talk about what a fantastic achievement it was coming back from the dead.
Now lets not get ahead of ourselves as theres a long way to go. But if we were to pull it off, I have no doubt that we will only take fantastic memories away from this season. This will be the season of the comeback, snatching a draw against Spurs, the injury time goals against Donny, playing Millwall off the park on their own patch, coming back from a 11/12 point deficit, the Ian Henderson 93rd minute winner at home to Charlton *, etc.
Of course, it could all go horribly wrong in the next ten days and we will be left with all the horrid thoughts of missed penalties, injury time goals, months without a win etc but as 1986-87 showed, its the outcome which defines everything.
It's bloody horrible at the moment and one of the biggest issues is that we have nothing to compare it to in modern day football. The two promotions were in all fairness pretty much a procession, and the relegation was all but a declaration. We've never had that nailbiting finish where there's been so many permutations. It's an absolute killer and I'm sure 99% of our nerves are well and truly shot right now. I nearly walked out with 10 mins to go of the Bradford game as I was struggling to cope with it. But it's so bad because we've never had such an equivalent season in such a long time, and whether its my age then or because football is much more a 24/7 thing these days, even 86-87 isn't much to compare with this one. |  | | |
| I'm at a loss... on 18:09 - Apr 25 with 2194 views | isitme |
| I'm at a loss... on 17:31 - Apr 25 by 442Dale |
Are there really that many who are saying he isn’t allowed a bad season? A lot of the questions this time around have been asked during the good seasons too.
The lack of focus on the centre of the defence cost us for two seasons, many wondered why... ironically we have almost found a solution for that now! |
I would say the centre of midfield has been our weakness this season. |  | | |
| I'm at a loss... on 18:28 - Apr 25 with 2162 views | fermin |
| I'm at a loss... on 18:01 - Apr 25 by ColDale |
For all the ifs and maybes, if we manage to stay up, it'll be one that will be looked back on historically.
The 86-87 season was on the face of it a terrible season. We got to the end of 86 and had won only two games all season so far - enough to make this season seem like a promotion bid. There were times that season we were dire, and all that at a much lower level.
Of course, we didn't have the insight into the running of the club then like we do now, but anyone i speak to about that season only does so in glowing terms. People talk about Simmonds, the win at Preston, the comeback against Torquay to snatch a 3-3 draw, the Wakenshaw volley against Halifax, the Stockport game, and a great escape before great escapes were even considered. No one talks about the two wins before January, or blowing injury time leads to Lincoln or going 3-0 down to Torquay at home or Peter Conning. They talk about what a fantastic achievement it was coming back from the dead.
Now lets not get ahead of ourselves as theres a long way to go. But if we were to pull it off, I have no doubt that we will only take fantastic memories away from this season. This will be the season of the comeback, snatching a draw against Spurs, the injury time goals against Donny, playing Millwall off the park on their own patch, coming back from a 11/12 point deficit, the Ian Henderson 93rd minute winner at home to Charlton *, etc.
Of course, it could all go horribly wrong in the next ten days and we will be left with all the horrid thoughts of missed penalties, injury time goals, months without a win etc but as 1986-87 showed, its the outcome which defines everything.
It's bloody horrible at the moment and one of the biggest issues is that we have nothing to compare it to in modern day football. The two promotions were in all fairness pretty much a procession, and the relegation was all but a declaration. We've never had that nailbiting finish where there's been so many permutations. It's an absolute killer and I'm sure 99% of our nerves are well and truly shot right now. I nearly walked out with 10 mins to go of the Bradford game as I was struggling to cope with it. But it's so bad because we've never had such an equivalent season in such a long time, and whether its my age then or because football is much more a 24/7 thing these days, even 86-87 isn't much to compare with this one. |
I agree on the whole, but the late Lincoln equaliser does stick in my mind, because after that I decided to stay away out of superstition until we were safe. My next game was the last game of the season at the Old Show Ground in Scunthorpe - and the bad news that day was the news that Burnley had managed to stay in the League. Ironically, Lincoln were the club that were relegated. |  | | |
| I'm at a loss... on 18:29 - Apr 25 with 2160 views | TVOS1907 |
| I'm at a loss... on 17:13 - Apr 25 by sweetcorn |
Tbf im sure theres a large amount of the fan base who don’t know if tony ellis is here, im one of them..
I couldnt tell you anything about the club outside of the playing staff, dunphy and hill(&beech) and why would i need to know? I come to watch the games and support the club.. |
That’s fair enough, but the success of our youth team is quite widely reported on Dale channels and Ellis is in charge of all that. [Post edited 25 Apr 2018 18:32]
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| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| I'm at a loss... on 19:31 - Apr 25 with 2078 views | dingdangblue |
| I'm at a loss... on 17:43 - Apr 25 by fitzochris |
DDB you've picked up the ball and started playing a different sport here.
To say a team is due a bad season is to suggest otherworldly forces are to blame. Like, no matter what they do they will have a bad season because they were due one. I don't believe in that.
If a team has a bad season it is down to very worldly reasons.
Now, if our bad season is down to the reasons you suggest, then fair enough. I want to hear from Hill, not to hold him to account, but because I'm interested.
I'm interested because he has built a reputation at this club at building overachieving sides. His ego is also based around that. I imagine this season will leave him hurting.
That's why I want to hear his account. This season is unusual by his standards.
Not everything is about having a dig at someone or getting them to justify themselves to satisfy the mob. |
Sorry I didn't mean there are other worldly forces involved - what I meant was with so many variables stacked up against Hill (losing players,attracting players,wages,balancing the books,developing youth) I think it's nigh on impossible for Hill to do all this and put out a team each season who are going to be competitive and good to watch - the fact that he has done this with us for 10 seasons is some sort of footballing miracle (in my eyes). Even turning this season round if he pulls it of will be one of his greatest achievements. He's made mistakes - even in those 'successful' seasons - I didn't feel the need for him to explain them all then and I don't now because I know he is the best fit for this football club and we won't get another like him. | |
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| I'm at a loss... on 19:48 - Apr 25 with 2040 views | TVOS1907 |
| I'm at a loss... on 17:34 - Apr 25 by aleanddale |
Thanks for the explanation Fitz, that's appreciated.
I don't get it 100% as we all get excited and look forward and that creates variables for discussion.
The 3 ifs I posted on another thread ( TVOS has the same issue with me and pulled me up ) was for 3 outcomes win lose or draw. One was going to happen.
My point then was that regardless of each outcome we were still fighting probably to the final day.
I guess I cant articulate myself in word form as well as most.
If you could be more patient or even try and ignore my posts that might help all of us I don't want to stop contributing.
onward to Oxford.
Up the Dale. |
I just think it's more relevant to focus on what has happened rather than what might happen. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| I'm at a loss... on 20:33 - Apr 25 with 1974 views | rochdale_ranger |
| I'm at a loss... on 17:16 - Apr 25 by dingdangblue |
Yes and Accrington have also struggled in recent seasons and Burnley have been relegated. It's called a cycle. We've had 10 seasons of success under Hill TEN SEASONS - but god forbid he has a bad one. |
I’m far from pessimistic about our club but surely you must acknowledge that things have not been good this season and Hill and certain board members have come out with outrageous comments with regards to the fans? |  | | |
| I'm at a loss... on 20:38 - Apr 25 with 1954 views | rochdaleriddler |
| I'm at a loss... on 17:16 - Apr 25 by dingdangblue |
Yes and Accrington have also struggled in recent seasons and Burnley have been relegated. It's called a cycle. We've had 10 seasons of success under Hill TEN SEASONS - but god forbid he has a bad one. |
Stop shouting | |
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| I'm at a loss... on 21:16 - Apr 25 with 1886 views | Shun |
| I'm at a loss... on 18:29 - Apr 25 by TVOS1907 |
That’s fair enough, but the success of our youth team is quite widely reported on Dale channels and Ellis is in charge of all that. [Post edited 25 Apr 2018 18:32]
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You’ve surprised me there, TVOS! I thought it was a young man in charge of the youth team, Chris Brown maybe? |  | | |
| I'm at a loss... on 21:26 - Apr 25 with 1856 views | TVOS1907 |
| I'm at a loss... on 21:16 - Apr 25 by Shun |
You’ve surprised me there, TVOS! I thought it was a young man in charge of the youth team, Chris Brown maybe? |
I aim to surprise, Shun.
Ellis is Academy Manager, so he's technically responsible for all the youth stuff.
Chris Brown is Academy PDP Coach, whatever that means. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| I'm at a loss... on 22:20 - Apr 25 with 1740 views | southealingdale |
From my perspective it is a simple conversion rate issue behind our struggle this season.
We rely on Henderson for goals and just don't contribute enough from other areas of the team.
If we had a Le Fondre, Dagnall, Hogan we would be way higher.
I would say though that if Hill had switched to 5 at the back sooner away we would have more points.
The home form is a bit of a mystery - too many draws - a bit of bad luck, bad finishing, lack of composure, fear have all contributed.
The stats around expected goals highlight the fact that defensively we are doing well and we create plenty of chances - https://experimental361.com/2018/04/22/e-ratings-update-league-1-22-apr-2018/
We need to take them.
Two games to go - can hardly bear it | |
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| I'm at a loss... on 06:13 - Apr 26 with 1583 views | aleanddale |
| I'm at a loss... on 19:48 - Apr 25 by TVOS1907 |
I just think it's more relevant to focus on what has happened rather than what might happen. |
TVOS seriously?
So no discussion on variables on what might come should this or that happen?
This board is littered with such discussion from loads of posters and I quite enjoy looking forward rather than looking back.
With 2 games to go this is part of the excitement and that includes ifs buts and maybes.
I am not overly bothered by It but I am interested why you and Fitz chose my posts to jump on when there are plenty of other posters who do the same.
Anyway - as before - Up the Dale and onwards to Oxford. | | | |
| I'm at a loss... on 07:15 - Apr 26 with 1552 views | TVOS1907 |
| I'm at a loss... on 06:13 - Apr 26 by aleanddale |
TVOS seriously?
So no discussion on variables on what might come should this or that happen?
This board is littered with such discussion from loads of posters and I quite enjoy looking forward rather than looking back.
With 2 games to go this is part of the excitement and that includes ifs buts and maybes.
I am not overly bothered by It but I am interested why you and Fitz chose my posts to jump on when there are plenty of other posters who do the same.
Anyway - as before - Up the Dale and onwards to Oxford. |
In my own head I might think about it, or I may discuss it amongst friends, but that’s usually it for me.
It’s probably why I’m not a gambler.
Anyway, onto Oxford. See you there! | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| I'm at a loss... on 09:28 - Apr 26 with 1440 views | DaleiLama |
| I'm at a loss... on 07:15 - Apr 26 by TVOS1907 |
In my own head I might think about it, or I may discuss it amongst friends, but that’s usually it for me.
It’s probably why I’m not a gambler.
Anyway, onto Oxford. See you there! |
I am of this opinion, but even more extreme. I never think about other results (unless games are in play e.g. Sarfend/Oldham). It is what it is. Take care of your own business. That's all that matters. If we fail to do so, we probably deserve the consequences.
The old serenity adage is worth embracing - grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and wisdom to know the difference. The only things we as fans can change is the atmosphere on game day.
Disclaimer: there are other brands of support and this is not for everyone. |  |
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| I'm at a loss... on 09:31 - Apr 26 with 1428 views | judd |
| I'm at a loss... on 09:28 - Apr 26 by DaleiLama |
I am of this opinion, but even more extreme. I never think about other results (unless games are in play e.g. Sarfend/Oldham). It is what it is. Take care of your own business. That's all that matters. If we fail to do so, we probably deserve the consequences.
The old serenity adage is worth embracing - grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and wisdom to know the difference. The only things we as fans can change is the atmosphere on game day.
Disclaimer: there are other brands of support and this is not for everyone. |
A faint heart never fooked a pig. |  |
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