| Hill and starts 22:27 - Sep 10 with 6409 views | Shun |
Below is when we obtained our first league win in every one of Hill's full seasons with us. I've also included the league position we were in at this corresponding stage each season (after 6 games).
07/08: 4th game (MK Dons)_____After 6 games - 17th
08/09: 2nd game (Barnet)_______After 6 games - 17th
09/10: 2nd game (Aldershot)____After 6 games - 13th
10/11: 4th game (Brentford)_____After 6 games - 7th
13/14: 1st game (Hartlepool)____After 6 games - 13th
14/15: 3rd game (Crewe)_______After 6 games - 15th
15/16: 1st game (Peterborough) _After 6 games - 6th
16/17: 8th game (Fleetwood)____After 6 games - 24th
17/18: ?_____________________After 6 games - 21st
So, barring 2 seasons, in every other of Hill's full 7 seasons with us we've had quite poor starts, especially relative to our finishing position. We know that all of these seasons have been very successful, despite these poor starts. We can take this in two ways - either that Hill always gets it right eventually, so it'd be folly to worry ourselves over what's become quite a traditional slow start.
Or, that perhaps something we're doing in pre-season isn't working, and if we played the start of the season like we do the rest of the season then we'd probably be challenging for the top places instead of having our annual play-off challenge. |  | | |  |
| Hill and starts on 22:45 - Sep 10 with 6366 views | judd |
Bloody hell was it really the 8th game last season? Cheers shun. |  |
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| Hill and starts on 22:49 - Sep 10 with 6353 views | RAFCBLUE |
Great analysis Shun.
Hill's track record suggests he'll get this right, but the starts are consistently iffy. |  |
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| Hill and starts on 22:57 - Sep 10 with 6328 views | SaxonDale |
Great post, Shun. |  | | |
| Hill and starts on 23:20 - Sep 10 with 6282 views | kiwidale |
An excellent post Shun one worthy of discussion. I'm struggling to fathom why we start so poor but one of the factors that might be relevant is. The intensity of our pre season fitness program in Spain? it simply is not working I would suggest apart from one season its been a disaster. Other teams seem to be better prepared once the season starts I for one would be happy to see it ditched in favour of a home based and more balanced approach, one that allows players to get up to speed in their own way. Not all players will arrive on the first day of training in optimum condition some are just better athletes, some will take more time than others to get up to speed so why treat them all the same? [Post edited 10 Sep 2017 23:31]
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| Hill and starts on 23:51 - Sep 10 with 6220 views | D_Alien |
| Hill and starts on 23:20 - Sep 10 by kiwidale |
An excellent post Shun one worthy of discussion. I'm struggling to fathom why we start so poor but one of the factors that might be relevant is. The intensity of our pre season fitness program in Spain? it simply is not working I would suggest apart from one season its been a disaster. Other teams seem to be better prepared once the season starts I for one would be happy to see it ditched in favour of a home based and more balanced approach, one that allows players to get up to speed in their own way. Not all players will arrive on the first day of training in optimum condition some are just better athletes, some will take more time than others to get up to speed so why treat them all the same? [Post edited 10 Sep 2017 23:31]
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An equally good post kiwi, and something i'd advocate too |  |
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| Hill and starts on 00:02 - Sep 11 with 6202 views | robtheb |
| Hill and starts on 23:20 - Sep 10 by kiwidale |
An excellent post Shun one worthy of discussion. I'm struggling to fathom why we start so poor but one of the factors that might be relevant is. The intensity of our pre season fitness program in Spain? it simply is not working I would suggest apart from one season its been a disaster. Other teams seem to be better prepared once the season starts I for one would be happy to see it ditched in favour of a home based and more balanced approach, one that allows players to get up to speed in their own way. Not all players will arrive on the first day of training in optimum condition some are just better athletes, some will take more time than others to get up to speed so why treat them all the same? [Post edited 10 Sep 2017 23:31]
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Friend of mine who is an Accrington Stanley fan tells me they went to Portugal pre season for some R&R and team bonding, with only some light training. The serious stuff they did when they came back. Not done them any harm so far! | | | |
| Hill and starts on 00:09 - Sep 11 with 6192 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| Hill and starts on 00:02 - Sep 11 by robtheb |
Friend of mine who is an Accrington Stanley fan tells me they went to Portugal pre season for some R&R and team bonding, with only some light training. The serious stuff they did when they came back. Not done them any harm so far! |
Let's get back to the good olde days......the trips to Scotland to play Raith Rovers. | | | |
| Hill and starts on 06:43 - Sep 11 with 6080 views | Albert_Whitehurst |
| Hill and starts on 00:09 - Sep 11 by Yorkshire_Dale |
Let's get back to the good olde days......the trips to Scotland to play Raith Rovers. |
Great trip in '99
Stenhousemuir
Berwick Rangers (played in Musselburgh)
Raith Rovers: |  | | |
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| Hill and starts on 06:55 - Sep 11 with 6069 views | kiwidale |
| Hill and starts on 00:02 - Sep 11 by robtheb |
Friend of mine who is an Accrington Stanley fan tells me they went to Portugal pre season for some R&R and team bonding, with only some light training. The serious stuff they did when they came back. Not done them any harm so far! |
I'm delighted for Accy another club that punches above its weight it must be in the water round these parts and in no small degree to Coleman and Bell credit where its due. I'm also delighted that Haifax have had a reasonable start it would be great to see them back in the league again. | |
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| Hill and starts on 09:13 - Sep 11 with 5917 views | DaleiLama |
Very interesting analysis Shun and thanks for posting. Why hasn't it been marked up more?
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| Hill and starts on 09:32 - Sep 11 with 5877 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Hill and starts on 00:09 - Sep 11 by Yorkshire_Dale |
Let's get back to the good olde days......the trips to Scotland to play Raith Rovers. |
Deffo |  |
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| Hill and starts on 11:05 - Sep 11 with 5751 views | Shun |
Thanks all, and don't shun the non-believer.
It'd be interesting to hear Hill's thoughts on the situation, and to see whether he has tried altering the pre-season preparation. | | | |
| Hill and starts on 12:04 - Sep 11 with 5679 views | DaleiLama |
| Hill and starts on 11:05 - Sep 11 by Shun |
Thanks all, and don't shun the non-believer.
It'd be interesting to hear Hill's thoughts on the situation, and to see whether he has tried altering the pre-season preparation. |
I don't count you as a non believer Shun. More a seeker of truth! | |
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| Hill and starts on 17:46 - Sep 11 with 5401 views | ColDale |
Now I'm certainly no expert in physical fitness but I am aware that there's different types of fitness, like Bolt would always aim to peak at the final of a major tournament rather than turn up in the best shape possible as often as possible.
Could it be that Keith Hill gets the squad set for a 46 game season as opposed to getting them set for the first day of the campaign? Hence we make a slower start compared with others, but in the long term it all works out for the best. You see it in the top flight where teams who's ambition is to avoid the drop can go all guns blazing trying to get to 40 points but after that, they struggle to pick up anything at all (am aware other factors will also play a part).
Incidentally, Hill talked about our slow starts in his Friday interview a couple of weeks ago, and I'm not quoting word for word, but it was almost like a false enthusiasm would see teams setting off like a house on fire, but from September onwards things would settle and that would bring us into our own. From memory, he used Port Vale last season as an example to back this up. |  | | |
| Hill and starts on 18:28 - Sep 11 with 5349 views | 442Dale |
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2017/september/hill-predoncaster_11.09.17/
Interesting stuff in there, not least that the Observer are able to contribute something. Some of the players mentioned who made an "impact" this time last season didnt really: Keane didnt play until game 7, Camps was on the bench for the majority of the time and the likes of NML, Andrew and Thompson were in and out of the side. The issue is the lack of players, the availability which Hill correctly points out, rather than the impact they made last season at the same time... which was as equally a poor start anyway!
On the subject of not having reserve team matches, why not just arrange the "bounce"* games like in the past?
And if we can have an update on the fitness levels of those who are back in the squad, why not those who aren't? It really would assist with the togetherness of the club as we can appreciate the situation better. |  |
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| Hill and starts on 18:29 - Sep 11 with 5349 views | Phil |
An unusually positive post from me on this one but here goes.
Is it possible that ALL clubs start the season enthusiastic and at peak fitness, regardless of backroom staff and sports science. So in the first few games we don't have any advantage, and it comes down to a straight battle of squads. After a few games, other clubs tail off but we keep going, thus gaining the advantage, which we then maintain through most of the season.
Could be complete crap of course, but it's so rare for me to have a glass-half-full opinion I just HAD to share it. | | | |
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