| what does this say about our society? on 12:16 - Jul 21 with 3264 views | Hooparoo |
How the hell would this be Thatcher's fault? |  |
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| what does this say about our society? on 12:16 - Jul 21 with 3260 views | SimonJames |
How can you blame Thatcher? She encouraged entrepreneurialism. |  |
| 100% of people who drink water will die. |
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| what does this say about our society? on 12:25 - Jul 21 with 3232 views | Brightonhoop |
Pretty stoopid of the Council but in line with the quality bar currently....but it was hardly Orgreave with horse mounted snatch squads going in.
I smell a troll. |  | | |
| what does this say about our society? on 12:31 - Jul 21 with 3218 views | hubble |
Trite comment maybe, but I blame Thatcher because she systematically and deliberately destroyed the fabric of our society. She created (with the backing of a neo-liberal think tank) a society of individuals who were divorced from their community, competing against each other - the point of this was to allow for the easiest way of controlling and manipulating people to advance the cause of gross consumerism. Dumbing down goes hand in hand with all of this. I'd say she was fairly successful. Happy to go into more detail if you wish. |  |
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| what does this say about our society? on 12:41 - Jul 21 with 3180 views | Brightonhoop |
| what does this say about our society? on 12:31 - Jul 21 by hubble |
Trite comment maybe, but I blame Thatcher because she systematically and deliberately destroyed the fabric of our society. She created (with the backing of a neo-liberal think tank) a society of individuals who were divorced from their community, competing against each other - the point of this was to allow for the easiest way of controlling and manipulating people to advance the cause of gross consumerism. Dumbing down goes hand in hand with all of this. I'd say she was fairly successful. Happy to go into more detail if you wish. |
Not really as it's all been done to death already. I doubt she realised what she was unleashing.
And generally speaking society is still pretty decent, see the actions of people in the recent terrorist attacks in London helping each other.
When the Zebrugger went down outside Dover Harbour some took your approach to seek to 'blame the Government.' When it was down to a pissed crew who failed to close the barn doors before sailing. All drinking by crew was promptly banned as a consequence. | | | |
| what does this say about our society? on 12:50 - Jul 21 with 3156 views | qpr1976 |
Reminds me of an Emo Phillips story about the young girl who set up a lemonade stand. The 1st glass was free, but she charged £50 for the 2nd glass and made a fortune !
How ? Because the 2nd glass contained the antidote !!! |  | | |
| what does this say about our society? on 12:52 - Jul 21 with 3150 views | paulparker |
| what does this say about our society? on 12:31 - Jul 21 by hubble |
Trite comment maybe, but I blame Thatcher because she systematically and deliberately destroyed the fabric of our society. She created (with the backing of a neo-liberal think tank) a society of individuals who were divorced from their community, competing against each other - the point of this was to allow for the easiest way of controlling and manipulating people to advance the cause of gross consumerism. Dumbing down goes hand in hand with all of this. I'd say she was fairly successful. Happy to go into more detail if you wish. |
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| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| what does this say about our society? on 12:56 - Jul 21 with 3133 views | hubble |
| what does this say about our society? on 12:41 - Jul 21 by Brightonhoop |
Not really as it's all been done to death already. I doubt she realised what she was unleashing.
And generally speaking society is still pretty decent, see the actions of people in the recent terrorist attacks in London helping each other.
When the Zebrugger went down outside Dover Harbour some took your approach to seek to 'blame the Government.' When it was down to a pissed crew who failed to close the barn doors before sailing. All drinking by crew was promptly banned as a consequence. |
What? One example (blaming the government when it's not their fault) mitigates against the plethora of others that show how fractured we've become? Yes, of course, community spirit can still shine through in adversity - Grenfell being a case in point, but if you think 'she didn't realise what she was unleashing' think again. She absolutely knew what she was doing, and it wasn't her alone, she was the face of an entire ideological plan that was designed to bring society back under the control of a government/corporate alliance (Mussolini's definition of fascism: Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power.)
My point is - if you read the actual article I posted - that people have become like drones - serving corporate masters - unable to think for themselves. How else can you explain how not just one person, but a group of 'enforcement officers', thought it was acceptable to fine a 5 year old girl, "they turned on their mobile camera and began reading from a big script explaining that she did not have a trading licence.
"My daughter clung to me screaming 'Daddy, Daddy, I've done a bad thing.' She's five.
"We were then issued a fine of £150. We packed up and walked home."
Where does this moronic subservience come from? I propose that it is an indirect (or even direct) result of Thatcherite policies. Divide and rule and consumerism and the destruction of communal values create a society where the values are badly skewed in favour of corporate power, money and property being the arbiter of all things. And dumbing down is part of that. [Post edited 21 Jul 2017 12:59]
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| what does this say about our society? on 13:03 - Jul 21 with 3107 views | TacticalR |
| what does this say about our society? on 12:31 - Jul 21 by hubble |
Trite comment maybe, but I blame Thatcher because she systematically and deliberately destroyed the fabric of our society. She created (with the backing of a neo-liberal think tank) a society of individuals who were divorced from their community, competing against each other - the point of this was to allow for the easiest way of controlling and manipulating people to advance the cause of gross consumerism. Dumbing down goes hand in hand with all of this. I'd say she was fairly successful. Happy to go into more detail if you wish. |
See the following article for a radical critique of that view (a view held by Owen Jones, Ken Loach, Bernie Saunders and numerous others)
'The myth goes like this: During the 1980s, Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, two arch right-wing and highly potent politicians, rose to power in their respective nations, the U.S. and the U.K. They thereafter began to institute what was for the vast majority a vile and destructive political and economic scheme: "neoliberalism." Previous to the instalment of this neoliberal scheme, the working class had experienced relative economic improvement, and capitalists seemed happy too (as if we care). But suddenly, and seemingly without cause (although the failure of Keynesianism was apparent in the unprecedented stagflation of the 1970s), these evil political twins, prompted by wizards who formalized the approach, introduced the nefarious ideology of neoliberalism to the world. As cruel and heartless representatives of the capitalist class (which, indeed, they were), they and their supporters caused the Fall from the supposed Paradise of Keynesian reformism that had preceded them. In this mythological version of reality, neoliberalism is understood merely as a set of essentially unwarranted and unusually brutal policies, an ideological and political formation that was hatched in the brains of evil masterminds conspiring in right-wing think tanks, concocted to dupe and punish the vast majority for the benefit of the rich and powerful.'
The graph on that page from Kliman's book shows the real reason for the rise of 'neoliberalism' in the US - the decline in US profits from the 1940s to the 1970s.
Brexit, Trumpism, Sanders, and the Decrepit State of Capitalism: Against Political Determinism (2016)
https://www.marxisthumanistinitiative.org/economic-crisis/brexit-trumpism-sander |  |
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| what does this say about our society? on 13:13 - Jul 21 with 3070 views | TGRRRSSS |
This was council employees - certainly not anything to do with corporate dronism.
This was classic nanny state fun police coupled with council employees tasked with getting as much out of anyone and anything they can on behalf of the council.
Traffic wardens basically.
To be fair the council did cancel it and issue an apology, but the way councils operate nowadays it#s every penny they can possibly get.
Thatcher would have approved of what she was doing.
BTW never thought I'd see the day Brighton defended Thatcher.
As an aside Labour did ok in first term 97 to 01 I thought, then they started to get spend spend and spend... )8 crash was banking predominantly but in this country years of out of control spending meant it was worse than it neeeded to be.
Funny how Brown bailed the Bankers though..... rather than simply the people who might otherwise have lost money |  | | |
| what does this say about our society? on 13:21 - Jul 21 with 3041 views | Brightonhoop |
| what does this say about our society? on 12:56 - Jul 21 by hubble |
What? One example (blaming the government when it's not their fault) mitigates against the plethora of others that show how fractured we've become? Yes, of course, community spirit can still shine through in adversity - Grenfell being a case in point, but if you think 'she didn't realise what she was unleashing' think again. She absolutely knew what she was doing, and it wasn't her alone, she was the face of an entire ideological plan that was designed to bring society back under the control of a government/corporate alliance (Mussolini's definition of fascism: Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power.)
My point is - if you read the actual article I posted - that people have become like drones - serving corporate masters - unable to think for themselves. How else can you explain how not just one person, but a group of 'enforcement officers', thought it was acceptable to fine a 5 year old girl, "they turned on their mobile camera and began reading from a big script explaining that she did not have a trading licence.
"My daughter clung to me screaming 'Daddy, Daddy, I've done a bad thing.' She's five.
"We were then issued a fine of £150. We packed up and walked home."
Where does this moronic subservience come from? I propose that it is an indirect (or even direct) result of Thatcherite policies. Divide and rule and consumerism and the destruction of communal values create a society where the values are badly skewed in favour of corporate power, money and property being the arbiter of all things. And dumbing down is part of that. [Post edited 21 Jul 2017 12:59]
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Not sure you're serious but blaming Thatcher for a couple of council street vendor wardens issuing that ticket on Mile End Road is stretching it a bit. You're a long way into troll territory. | | | |
| what does this say about our society? on 13:34 - Jul 21 with 3012 views | cyprusmel |
What ever happened to common sense. | | | |
| what does this say about our society? on 13:43 - Jul 21 with 2985 views | Northernr |
| what does this say about our society? on 13:34 - Jul 21 by cyprusmel |
What ever happened to common sense. |
A council spokesman said: "We are very sorry that this has happened. We expect our enforcement officers to show common sense and to use their powers sensibly.
"This clearly did not happen.
"The fine will be cancelled immediately and we have contacted Mr Spicer and his daughter to apologise."
This thread is borderline trolling. It'll be Hitler's fault next. Give it a rest. |  | | |
| what does this say about our society? (n/t) on 13:44 - Jul 21 with 2978 views | Cliff_Schitzinabag |
Oh! You're actually farking serious!?!
I read your initial headline as a Rik of the Young Ones tribute and thought 'Bravo'!
But no! Bless ... [Post edited 21 Jul 2017 13:47]
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| what does this say about our society? (n/t) on 13:56 - Jul 21 with 2936 views | hubble |
| what does this say about our society? (n/t) on 13:44 - Jul 21 by Cliff_Schitzinabag |
Oh! You're actually farking serious!?!
I read your initial headline as a Rik of the Young Ones tribute and thought 'Bravo'!
But no! Bless ... [Post edited 21 Jul 2017 13:47]
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I'm sorry, but how is this 'borderline trolling'? I'm serious. I also entirely disagree with the perspective posted by Tactical R:
"'The myth goes like this: During the 1980s, Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, two arch right-wing and highly potent politicians, rose to power in their respective nations, the U.S. and the U.K. They thereafter began to institute what was for the vast majority a vile and destructive political and economic scheme: "neoliberalism." Previous to the instalment of this neoliberal scheme, the working class had experienced relative economic improvement, and capitalists seemed happy too (as if we care). But suddenly, and seemingly without cause (although the failure of Keynesianism was apparent in the unprecedented stagflation of the 1970s), these evil political twins, prompted by wizards who formalized the approach, introduced the nefarious ideology of neoliberalism to the world. As cruel and heartless representatives of the capitalist class (which, indeed, they were), they and their supporters caused the Fall from the supposed Paradise of Keynesian reformism that had preceded them. In this mythological version of reality, neoliberalism is understood merely as a set of essentially unwarranted and unusually brutal policies, an ideological and political formation that was hatched in the brains of evil masterminds conspiring in right-wing think tanks, concocted to dupe and punish the vast majority for the benefit of the rich and powerful.' "
As far as I can see this is a rhetorical spin that attempts to show that the view I have put forward - and apparently I share with others - is bogus. It is not a bogus view, nor were there 'wizards' who had some kind of spell over Thatcher/Reagan - this was a deliberate, long-planned assault on society - and if you haven't seen Adam Curtis's 'The Century of the Self' I humbly suggest giving it a watch.
If no one on this thread believes that there has been any pernicious effect on society from Thatcher's policies, and that everything that has happened since to our communities is pure chance, and that the whole 'greed is good' philosophy was fine, along with everything else that has happened since then, so be it. But my view is one that comes from a careful consideration and observation of what I've lived through since Thatcher. I have a very clear memory of what it was like to grow up in this country in the 60s, and I have seen things change radically since then. As I say, I believe Thatcher has had much to do with how our society has disintegrated. Do people genuinely believe this is entirely untrue? Fair enough. But I'm not trolling. | |
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| what does this say about our society? on 14:17 - Jul 21 with 2891 views | Bluce_Ree |
I'd like to have seen some jail time doled out for this flagrant disregard of food and drink standards. |  |
| Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. |
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| what does this say about our society? on 20:14 - Jul 21 with 2741 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| what does this say about our society? on 12:41 - Jul 21 by Brightonhoop |
Not really as it's all been done to death already. I doubt she realised what she was unleashing.
And generally speaking society is still pretty decent, see the actions of people in the recent terrorist attacks in London helping each other.
When the Zebrugger went down outside Dover Harbour some took your approach to seek to 'blame the Government.' When it was down to a pissed crew who failed to close the barn doors before sailing. All drinking by crew was promptly banned as a consequence. |
I don't remember anyone blaming the Government, Brighton, to be fair.
Firstly, it happened in Belgium at Zeebruuge Port, not in Britain. The reason it never got to Dover were because of shoddy work practices. The ship, as I remember it, was transferred to Zeebrugge even though she wasn't suited to the ramp there. They loaded her anyway. off-balance, and off ballast.
Then the skipper pulled away without getting proper conformation from below that the doors were closed. They looked closed. He went anyway.
Strangely enough, on a properly-laden ferry ship the small bit of water that came in while they idled out wouldn't have been a problem if they were laden properly. But they couldn't have been. Because the ship should never have docked in Zeebrugge. That's what doomed her and those aboard. She went off-kilter.
How all of this utter stupidity reflects on Thatcher, I have no idea. I grew up in an industrial fishing port in Ireland. Even I can see that that ship should never have docked in that port. I doubt Maggie (who, let's be clear, I did not like) made the call. |  |
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| what does this say about our society? on 20:23 - Jul 21 with 2727 views | BrianMcCarthy |
As for the original post, this story made the radio news in Ireland today.
What hit me and pleased me was that if it had happened thirty years ago the radio hosts would have gloated to their audience about "the difference between us and them" and "God, aren't they a joyless bunch".
Today, one of the panellists said that she was in a festival in Cornwall and she got lemonade from a few young 'uns and 'twas lovely, and England's just as friendly and quaint as Ireland, and hopefully she'd made plenty to pay off the fine.
Isn't Peace a grand thing... | |
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| what does this say about our society? on 20:34 - Jul 21 with 2711 views | distortR |
| what does this say about our society? on 20:23 - Jul 21 by BrianMcCarthy |
As for the original post, this story made the radio news in Ireland today.
What hit me and pleased me was that if it had happened thirty years ago the radio hosts would have gloated to their audience about "the difference between us and them" and "God, aren't they a joyless bunch".
Today, one of the panellists said that she was in a festival in Cornwall and she got lemonade from a few young 'uns and 'twas lovely, and England's just as friendly and quaint as Ireland, and hopefully she'd made plenty to pay off the fine.
Isn't Peace a grand thing... |
you've been DUPed | | | |
| what does this say about our society? on 21:00 - Jul 21 with 2684 views | Brightonhoop |
| what does this say about our society? on 20:14 - Jul 21 by BrianMcCarthy |
I don't remember anyone blaming the Government, Brighton, to be fair.
Firstly, it happened in Belgium at Zeebruuge Port, not in Britain. The reason it never got to Dover were because of shoddy work practices. The ship, as I remember it, was transferred to Zeebrugge even though she wasn't suited to the ramp there. They loaded her anyway. off-balance, and off ballast.
Then the skipper pulled away without getting proper conformation from below that the doors were closed. They looked closed. He went anyway.
Strangely enough, on a properly-laden ferry ship the small bit of water that came in while they idled out wouldn't have been a problem if they were laden properly. But they couldn't have been. Because the ship should never have docked in Zeebrugge. That's what doomed her and those aboard. She went off-kilter.
How all of this utter stupidity reflects on Thatcher, I have no idea. I grew up in an industrial fishing port in Ireland. Even I can see that that ship should never have docked in that port. I doubt Maggie (who, let's be clear, I did not like) made the call. |
Ah you're right Bri, it was Zebrugge and not Dover. I knew a few blokes that worked those ferries and back in the day they were allowed quotas of rum and brandy with no limits too drinking whilst working, often to steady sea legs, and would arrive back in Dover steaming literally. One had several girlfriends and children on the French side as well as a family at home in Kent.
I remember the blaming of Government because I remember talking-to mates and sayi g 'is it me or is this madness? There was plenty to blame Thatcher for, Brixton Riots, youth unemployment etc and, I was no fan either, but it just seemed lime a collective amnesia just said 'blame the government.' when alcohol was consumed whilst running those Ferries and was banned afterwards.
It just seemed mad to me, and still generally question when folks say it was the fault of the Government. On that occasion it was clearly a wrong boat going into a port not designed for it and ultimately the bloke who didnt close the doors and a captain that didn't check. Before sailing.
But some in the media peddalled the disaster as fault of the Government. Very odd. | | | |
| what does this say about our society? on 21:21 - Jul 21 with 2654 views | colinallcars |
All this reminds me of the time I was charged and fined for driving without due care and attention. I was eating a cake while driving my motorbike down a quiet street on the Wormholt Estate. Oh, it was a hazelnut slice. |  | | |
| what does this say about our society? on 21:31 - Jul 21 with 2641 views | bob566 |
If you were passionate about this you'd go down and make a statement by buying a cup of lemonade for 150 pounds off her. Show your support | | | |
| what does this say about our society? on 21:34 - Jul 21 with 2637 views | Brightonhoop |
| what does this say about our society? on 21:21 - Jul 21 by colinallcars |
All this reminds me of the time I was charged and fined for driving without due care and attention. I was eating a cake while driving my motorbike down a quiet street on the Wormholt Estate. Oh, it was a hazelnut slice. |
Very poor.
It should at least have been coffee and walnut or lemon drizzle cake.
Must try harder. | | | |
| what does this say about our society? on 05:54 - Jul 22 with 2512 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| what does this say about our society? on 13:34 - Jul 21 by cyprusmel |
What ever happened to common sense. |
I think common sense left to run an airline in India when Fernandes bought the club! |  |
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| what does this say about our society? on 07:24 - Jul 22 with 2471 views | plasmahoop |
The original story about the lemonade was on the Jeremy vine show yesterday lunchtime. I thought the girls dad came across as a total prick. He was a business professor who ought to know the law, but when challenged by these enforcement officers tried to say they were fining his daughter. She didn't do it on her own did she, he did. He kept banging on about common sense and how can you fine a five year old etc. This attitude was probably shat got him fined. Probably was over the top which was why the council retracted it, but he was still a prick | | | |
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