| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games 18:19 - Dec 11 with 35118 views | 442Dale |
http://www.daletrust.co.uk/2015/12/question-to-the-club/
As a result of issues raised by supporters on here recently, questions were sent to the club via the Trust. The answers are in the link.
Please take the time to join the Trust and ask questions too or if you're already a member get them sent in (use the links at the top on their site). This illustrates that they will be answered, and those answers are there for everyone to see and debate.
Simple process that other clubs would do well to follow.
Thanks to those involved. [Post edited 11 Dec 2015 18:21]
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| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 12:17 - Feb 3 with 2884 views | D_Alien |
First of all, the further response is to be welcomed. I'd posted earlier that I suspected the club's (CG's) initial statement to be their first and last word on the subject - and I was wrong, so apologies to CG.
With the initial speculation, rumour, disquiet and intrusion of personal space involved, it's to be hoped the club might learn an important lesson. Give the fans ALL the relevant facts that can be made public - in the FIRST instance. For instance, the information that searches are in fact randomised is pretty key to the whole business. That fact being made public first up would've prevented a whole load of wasted posts on this forum, and no doubt discussions in the pub and elsewhere; and more importantly, might've not required the club to publish a further response at all.
To those who claim it's all a storm in a teacup, try telling that to the club who are having to take time and probably expense they could do without to act on the advice of the security authorities. The simple fact is, most people wouldn't have any problem with searches given the full facts. We now have them. |  |
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| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 12:39 - Feb 3 with 2825 views | TVOS1907 |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 12:17 - Feb 3 by D_Alien |
First of all, the further response is to be welcomed. I'd posted earlier that I suspected the club's (CG's) initial statement to be their first and last word on the subject - and I was wrong, so apologies to CG.
With the initial speculation, rumour, disquiet and intrusion of personal space involved, it's to be hoped the club might learn an important lesson. Give the fans ALL the relevant facts that can be made public - in the FIRST instance. For instance, the information that searches are in fact randomised is pretty key to the whole business. That fact being made public first up would've prevented a whole load of wasted posts on this forum, and no doubt discussions in the pub and elsewhere; and more importantly, might've not required the club to publish a further response at all.
To those who claim it's all a storm in a teacup, try telling that to the club who are having to take time and probably expense they could do without to act on the advice of the security authorities. The simple fact is, most people wouldn't have any problem with searches given the full facts. We now have them. |
However, it appears only fans (and particularly those in the TDS Stand) are deemed a terrorist threat. Surely this warning from the authorities should cover anyone who enters the ground, not just supporters.
It's all a nonsense. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 13:16 - Feb 3 with 2774 views | fitzochris |
Completely appreciate the two elements to this. Firstly, fair play to the club for responding in detail, but, secondly, as TVOS says, it does all seem to be nonsense regardless. |  |
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| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 15:05 - Feb 3 with 2705 views | windowsbug |
What a cop out.
Terrorism at Spotland....
That's the reply to everything these days. Wake up people, it's all about controlling the masses. Eroding your civil liberties.
You can't do this..you can't do that.
You can't take pictures in a public area because you could be planning a terror attack.
You wouldn't need to be inside to chuck a grenade in to the ground would you.
Pathetic response from the club....as usual. |  | | |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 17:12 - Feb 3 with 2650 views | D_Alien |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 12:39 - Feb 3 by TVOS1907 |
However, it appears only fans (and particularly those in the TDS Stand) are deemed a terrorist threat. Surely this warning from the authorities should cover anyone who enters the ground, not just supporters.
It's all a nonsense. |
Of course it's a nonsense, but at least we now have the full picture on why the club are providing a nonsense. No-one expects the club and the stewards to get it right, that'd be just too much to ask!! | |
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| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 22:31 - Feb 3 with 2567 views | rochdaleriddler |
if we are looking for terrorists entering spotland, i trust the stewards are well drilled in looking for bombs, guns etc, the half arsed searches being carried out are ridiculous and just annoy everyone. If there is specific evidence pointing to an attack at spotland then lets have everyone searched, and lets all get there at mid day to enable this, if its just random, there is no point so stop it now. do we need a suicide vest amnesty at the turnstiles? |  |
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| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 14:11 - Feb 4 with 2457 views | upthedale |
I take the points about the searching not being good enough and agree.
But I still can't understand why anyone wouldn't take 10 seconds out of their day if it even lessened the chances of a terrorist attack by 0.00000000001%. Or any attack for that matter.
Football is likely to be targeted in this country (plots may already have been stopped - I don't know), will it be a big Premiership club or will it be a (probably) "easier" target? Who knows.
Someone actually mentioned to me that security would probably be stepped up at Rochdale after the Paris attacks and at first I laughed it off (if that's the right phrase in relation to such a thing) as who would want to attack us. But actually in Rochdale if we're honest we're probably more likely to be targeted than the vast majority of lower league clubs.
I can't remember what happened to those guys who went to Syria (so have no idea whether we've had proven links to extremism), but it wouldn't be surprising if we have more links than most towns. |  | | |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 15:12 - Feb 4 with 2418 views | robbowood |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 14:11 - Feb 4 by upthedale |
I take the points about the searching not being good enough and agree.
But I still can't understand why anyone wouldn't take 10 seconds out of their day if it even lessened the chances of a terrorist attack by 0.00000000001%. Or any attack for that matter.
Football is likely to be targeted in this country (plots may already have been stopped - I don't know), will it be a big Premiership club or will it be a (probably) "easier" target? Who knows.
Someone actually mentioned to me that security would probably be stepped up at Rochdale after the Paris attacks and at first I laughed it off (if that's the right phrase in relation to such a thing) as who would want to attack us. But actually in Rochdale if we're honest we're probably more likely to be targeted than the vast majority of lower league clubs.
I can't remember what happened to those guys who went to Syria (so have no idea whether we've had proven links to extremism), but it wouldn't be surprising if we have more links than most towns. |
Why is "Football is likely to be targeted in this country" and "Rochdale probably more likely to be targeted than the vast majority of lower league clubs"
Publicity is what the terorists want and surely Spotland is one of the last football grounds in the country earth they would pick
There are just as many, if not more of the type of people you are suggesting, who go to Syria from Blackburn and Bolton
The searches to my mind are nothing to do with what happened in Paris - but due to the fact one blue smoke bomb was thrown during the Wigan game (in the Sandy and I was yards away when it went off at the front) and another one during the Bury game (not sure where it went off) |  | | |
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| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 15:12 - Feb 4 with 2418 views | windowsbug |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 14:11 - Feb 4 by upthedale |
I take the points about the searching not being good enough and agree.
But I still can't understand why anyone wouldn't take 10 seconds out of their day if it even lessened the chances of a terrorist attack by 0.00000000001%. Or any attack for that matter.
Football is likely to be targeted in this country (plots may already have been stopped - I don't know), will it be a big Premiership club or will it be a (probably) "easier" target? Who knows.
Someone actually mentioned to me that security would probably be stepped up at Rochdale after the Paris attacks and at first I laughed it off (if that's the right phrase in relation to such a thing) as who would want to attack us. But actually in Rochdale if we're honest we're probably more likely to be targeted than the vast majority of lower league clubs.
I can't remember what happened to those guys who went to Syria (so have no idea whether we've had proven links to extremism), but it wouldn't be surprising if we have more links than most towns. |
Perhaps some of us don't like to be searched.
I've been to some of the worst football grounds ever. Seen some of the violence that went on. Put up with the worst conditions that a human should not have to endure to watch football.
But at most of these grounds the stewards were polite, helpfull etc.
I have been asked less than 10 times in over 30 years of away travel if I can be searched.
Most times if you point out that your on the public highway and they don't have the right to, they get awfully confused and let you in anyway.
Now you visit your home teams ground. The same stewards can't remember you from the last time you visited and are greated with a grunt and a "can't be arsed attitude" [Post edited 4 Feb 2016 15:14]
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| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 15:44 - Feb 4 with 2386 views | KenBoon |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 14:11 - Feb 4 by upthedale |
I take the points about the searching not being good enough and agree.
But I still can't understand why anyone wouldn't take 10 seconds out of their day if it even lessened the chances of a terrorist attack by 0.00000000001%. Or any attack for that matter.
Football is likely to be targeted in this country (plots may already have been stopped - I don't know), will it be a big Premiership club or will it be a (probably) "easier" target? Who knows.
Someone actually mentioned to me that security would probably be stepped up at Rochdale after the Paris attacks and at first I laughed it off (if that's the right phrase in relation to such a thing) as who would want to attack us. But actually in Rochdale if we're honest we're probably more likely to be targeted than the vast majority of lower league clubs.
I can't remember what happened to those guys who went to Syria (so have no idea whether we've had proven links to extremism), but it wouldn't be surprising if we have more links than most towns. |
It isn't the time it takes, it's the act. I'm not being searched when there is no realistic threat. If there were some realistic threat then the checks wouldn't he half-arsed. If the club really are concerned about DANGER then may I suggest cleaning the bogs. You are far more likely to choke to death on the piss fumes in the Pearl Street toilets than being killed by a Terrorist. |  | | |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 16:15 - Feb 4 with 2378 views | robbowood |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 15:44 - Feb 4 by KenBoon |
It isn't the time it takes, it's the act. I'm not being searched when there is no realistic threat. If there were some realistic threat then the checks wouldn't he half-arsed. If the club really are concerned about DANGER then may I suggest cleaning the bogs. You are far more likely to choke to death on the piss fumes in the Pearl Street toilets than being killed by a Terrorist. |
odds of dying in a road accident: 1 in 8,000
odds of dying in a terrorist attack whilst on board a plane is 1 in 25,000,000 (25 million)
overall average of dying in any kind of terrorist attack worldwide (this includes Spotland!!!) is 1 in 9,300,000 (9.3 million) | | | |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 16:20 - Feb 4 with 2374 views | dingdangblue |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 15:12 - Feb 4 by robbowood |
Why is "Football is likely to be targeted in this country" and "Rochdale probably more likely to be targeted than the vast majority of lower league clubs"
Publicity is what the terorists want and surely Spotland is one of the last football grounds in the country earth they would pick
There are just as many, if not more of the type of people you are suggesting, who go to Syria from Blackburn and Bolton
The searches to my mind are nothing to do with what happened in Paris - but due to the fact one blue smoke bomb was thrown during the Wigan game (in the Sandy and I was yards away when it went off at the front) and another one during the Bury game (not sure where it went off) |
The club have said its because of terrorism though. Unless they count throwing a smoke bomb as terrorism? |  |
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| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 16:46 - Feb 4 with 2344 views | aleanddale |
Its an absolute shambles.
terrorism my arse...
like the goofballs ( who were pretty friendly and apologetic on Saturday ) know what to look out for.
it really is pathetic.
common sense needs to prevail and I am hanging onto the "the club have relaxed the policy" part of the statement as the truth. | | | |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 17:20 - Feb 4 with 2307 views | KenBoon |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 16:15 - Feb 4 by robbowood |
odds of dying in a road accident: 1 in 8,000
odds of dying in a terrorist attack whilst on board a plane is 1 in 25,000,000 (25 million)
overall average of dying in any kind of terrorist attack worldwide (this includes Spotland!!!) is 1 in 9,300,000 (9.3 million) |
I'm sure you're far more likely to die in poverty, freeze or starve to death during Winter in Rochdale than die in a terrorist attack, but solving those sorts of problems clearly isn't as important. (Not a political point because all parties are the same on this). | | | |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 20:39 - Feb 4 with 2206 views | TVOS1907 |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 14:11 - Feb 4 by upthedale |
I take the points about the searching not being good enough and agree.
But I still can't understand why anyone wouldn't take 10 seconds out of their day if it even lessened the chances of a terrorist attack by 0.00000000001%. Or any attack for that matter.
Football is likely to be targeted in this country (plots may already have been stopped - I don't know), will it be a big Premiership club or will it be a (probably) "easier" target? Who knows.
Someone actually mentioned to me that security would probably be stepped up at Rochdale after the Paris attacks and at first I laughed it off (if that's the right phrase in relation to such a thing) as who would want to attack us. But actually in Rochdale if we're honest we're probably more likely to be targeted than the vast majority of lower league clubs.
I can't remember what happened to those guys who went to Syria (so have no idea whether we've had proven links to extremism), but it wouldn't be surprising if we have more links than most towns. |
So presumably, as I've mentioned several times, EVERYONE who enters Spotland will have no objection to being searched ahead of every game?
That includes players, officials, club staff, the tea lady, Jack The Kitman and Desmond The Dragon.
Or is it only fans who are potential terrorists? | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 20:49 - Feb 4 with 2188 views | 442Dale |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 20:39 - Feb 4 by TVOS1907 |
So presumably, as I've mentioned several times, EVERYONE who enters Spotland will have no objection to being searched ahead of every game?
That includes players, officials, club staff, the tea lady, Jack The Kitman and Desmond The Dragon.
Or is it only fans who are potential terrorists? |
Not sure about that, but there have been no searches that I've witnessed when going into the Dale Bar before every home game, and as we know this is a very popular and busy place on a matchday. | |
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| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 08:57 - Feb 5 with 2086 views | upthedale |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 15:12 - Feb 4 by robbowood |
Why is "Football is likely to be targeted in this country" and "Rochdale probably more likely to be targeted than the vast majority of lower league clubs"
Publicity is what the terorists want and surely Spotland is one of the last football grounds in the country earth they would pick
There are just as many, if not more of the type of people you are suggesting, who go to Syria from Blackburn and Bolton
The searches to my mind are nothing to do with what happened in Paris - but due to the fact one blue smoke bomb was thrown during the Wigan game (in the Sandy and I was yards away when it went off at the front) and another one during the Bury game (not sure where it went off) |
I just say football is likely to be targeted because it's a big part of British culture and I don't imagine there's anything else where quite as many people gather every single weekend, or at least I can't think of anything off the top of my head. And where there's so many tv shows talking about it, it's in the media etc etc.
Publicity is what they want, and they'd get it if they let a bomb off in a public place anywhere in the country.
I honestly have no idea about figures of people that go to Syria, and if you're right then fair enough. But whether it's 1 or 100 or however many people in Rochdale that are extremists....it still increases the risk.
The searches are to do with Paris because as a later poster says, the club have confirmed it's terrorism.
People say Spotland wouldn't be targeted but do you think the small, family-owned restaurants/cafes in Paris expected to be targeted? Of course not. The Bataclan wouldn't have expected it, though it does have some kind of religious history as far as I'm aware. Not one person that night expected where they were to be targeted by terrorists.
Terrorist attacks are few and far between and people are right that of course (fortunately) you're very, very unlikely to be caught up in one - but if you can lessen that chance why wouldn't you?
People note about the inconsistent searches and I've said I agree they're not good enough. But if you look on the first pages of the thread there were posters asking why OAPs were being searched (I think, not checked). This seems pretty hypocritical to me. | | | |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 09:21 - Feb 5 with 2071 views | dingdangblue |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 08:57 - Feb 5 by upthedale |
I just say football is likely to be targeted because it's a big part of British culture and I don't imagine there's anything else where quite as many people gather every single weekend, or at least I can't think of anything off the top of my head. And where there's so many tv shows talking about it, it's in the media etc etc.
Publicity is what they want, and they'd get it if they let a bomb off in a public place anywhere in the country.
I honestly have no idea about figures of people that go to Syria, and if you're right then fair enough. But whether it's 1 or 100 or however many people in Rochdale that are extremists....it still increases the risk.
The searches are to do with Paris because as a later poster says, the club have confirmed it's terrorism.
People say Spotland wouldn't be targeted but do you think the small, family-owned restaurants/cafes in Paris expected to be targeted? Of course not. The Bataclan wouldn't have expected it, though it does have some kind of religious history as far as I'm aware. Not one person that night expected where they were to be targeted by terrorists.
Terrorist attacks are few and far between and people are right that of course (fortunately) you're very, very unlikely to be caught up in one - but if you can lessen that chance why wouldn't you?
People note about the inconsistent searches and I've said I agree they're not good enough. But if you look on the first pages of the thread there were posters asking why OAPs were being searched (I think, not checked). This seems pretty hypocritical to me. |
Shopping centres have thousands of visitors yet I am yet to be searched going into the Arndale or Trafford Centre. The problem is if we allow these terrorists to affect our lives then they are winning. I would say any public place in a city like Paris or London is a potential target but not Rochdale? And if Rochdale is considered as a target just because of the larger amounts of Muslims in the town then that's crazy. There's loads of Irish in the town but I don't remember being searched when the IRA were blowing up things. Its just unnecessary at the end of the day - I have yet to be searched entering Spotland in the 5-6 games this has been happening - what if I did have a bomb ? How would the searches have stopped that when I just walked in as normal? One of the games I was holding a kids rucksack and still wasn't asked what was in it? Waste of time and effort. | |
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| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 10:58 - Feb 5 with 2018 views | DaleiLama |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 09:21 - Feb 5 by dingdangblue |
Shopping centres have thousands of visitors yet I am yet to be searched going into the Arndale or Trafford Centre. The problem is if we allow these terrorists to affect our lives then they are winning. I would say any public place in a city like Paris or London is a potential target but not Rochdale? And if Rochdale is considered as a target just because of the larger amounts of Muslims in the town then that's crazy. There's loads of Irish in the town but I don't remember being searched when the IRA were blowing up things. Its just unnecessary at the end of the day - I have yet to be searched entering Spotland in the 5-6 games this has been happening - what if I did have a bomb ? How would the searches have stopped that when I just walked in as normal? One of the games I was holding a kids rucksack and still wasn't asked what was in it? Waste of time and effort. |
Agree Ding.
If a terrorist wants to commit an act of atrocity, (like the IRA did in the Arndale) it will happen. A lot of potential attacks are thwarted before the fact by the security services "snooping" and uncovering evidence, but there is no catch-all. There will be more attacks on more soft targets throughout history as sure as eggs is eggs.
Airline security is not dis-similar to this issue. I have to fly a fair bit with work and whilst it is tighter than Spotland, I have seen huge lapses there too. I recently (inadvertently) took a bottle of water onto a plane that went through security in a rucksack. On holiday last year, my case was picked up at 9am and dropped at the airport, where I saw it again at lunchtime. It was x-rayed, but the contents could have been completely replaced for all I knew? I have seen fake guns being used in tests and not picked up, yet it is now mandatory to take all laptops, book readers and tablets out of hand luggage causing huge queues.
My personal opinion is I don't mind being searched and I don't mind GCHQ having access to my life electronically (which it does unless you go on the dark web) but the imposition has to be commensurate with the risk, and if the risk is real, security needs to be watertight. The fact that none of these criteria are being met is leading to understandable frustration for all concerned.
On a practical level, is searching going to be imposed at all public events and public places where more than say 100, 500 or 1,000 people are gathered and how do you profile which targets are most vulnerable? Somewhere, common sense has to prevail. Do it properly if a specific bone fide threat has been detected or not at all. |  |
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| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 12:35 - Feb 5 with 1960 views | D_Alien |
Another thing. I wonder what on earth the stewards have been told to do if, whilst frisking someone, they come across a bulky vest with wires sticking out? Radio their control? I wonder if they turn up for work wearing protective nappies? | |
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| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 12:40 - Feb 5 with 1956 views | tuesdale |
People moan about club communication, but Keith Hill explained it all years ago -
"I am pleased to a point, but I am always aware of the terrorist, and there is always the terrorist. I don’t think we have too many, if any, among the squad. But it is all about trying to spot that terrorist and know where they are and when they are going to explode. You have to be wary of that.
When you are winning games those terrorists tend to hide even deeper in the fabric of the football club, so you have got to be aware of where they are because if you start losing you need your soldiers who are going to support you.
Right now the terrorists are quiet — but they are always ready to shoe bomb you.”
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/keith-hill-o | | | |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 12:45 - Feb 5 with 1940 views | dingdangblue |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 12:35 - Feb 5 by D_Alien |
Another thing. I wonder what on earth the stewards have been told to do if, whilst frisking someone, they come across a bulky vest with wires sticking out? Radio their control? I wonder if they turn up for work wearing protective nappies? |
Steward - Mind if I search you
Supporter wearing bulky item with wires sticking out- Yeah fine
Steward - What's this?
Supporter wearing bulky item with wires sticking out- Its just my new radio,for listening to score updates and that.
Steward- Fine,in you go. | |
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| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games (n/t) on 10:27 - Feb 13 with 1746 views | Phil |
[Post edited 13 Feb 2016 20:21]
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| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 11:30 - Feb 13 with 1709 views | 442Dale |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games (n/t) on 10:27 - Feb 13 by Phil |
[Post edited 13 Feb 2016 20:21]
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That really unfortunate. After the club have now acknowledged concerns from supporters couldn't you give it another go?
It might have taken this messageboard and the efforts of supporters to prompt the explanation, but now that it's out there hopefully the situation will improve. | |
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| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games on 11:48 - Feb 13 with 1690 views | aleanddale |
| Replies from the club re. Ticketing and searches at games (n/t) on 10:27 - Feb 13 by Phil |
[Post edited 13 Feb 2016 20:21]
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That is a shame...
The club has said it has "relaxed" the policy.
Fingers crossed today common sense prevails. | | | |
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