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Not for us, but for Bury. i was credit checking a potential customer and decided to nosey onto BFC's file and was (or maybe not) supprised to see a new CCJ for circa £22k lodged only Wednesday this week. looks like they are in need of a bumper crowd tomorrow to settle some bills
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tomorrow can't come quick enough on 18:29 - May 28 with 4371 views
Would SD1 dream plan have really been viable. Stadium building costs + championship wages + existing debt. Versus income in the championship. Would it have really been enough to keep BuRy in the black?
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
tomorrow can't come quick enough on 18:29 - May 28 by James1980
Would SD1 dream plan have really been viable. Stadium building costs + championship wages + existing debt. Versus income in the championship. Would it have really been enough to keep BuRy in the black?
tomorrow can't come quick enough on 04:13 - May 28 by Katula
Bury fan here. Not come for the diatribe that usually happens when our fans cross forums. I was notified about this specific post and thought I would give a honest as possible reply.
First off i will say 90% of the post in bang on the money. Yes we have lived beyond our means for far to long. Yes looking back a few of our promotions have been built on funding that we never should have had. Yes the vast majority of our fans have lapped it up over and over and Yes we are now probably paying for years and years of underhand leadership at the club
The 10% of the post i can not agree with is when you get to Steve Dale. You say he is running us properly but this could not be any further from the truth. He knew full well when he come to the club what sort of financial trouble we was in. By all accounts he only payed £1 for Bury F.C and has done nothing but take out. No bills at all have been paid since February and as you are aware the players and staff have not been paid for three months. In that time we have had a couple of 7000+ attendances, had money paid to the club for a cup semi final appearence and also had our standard payments from the EFL. Also we have sold around a thousand season tickets for next season. All the money generated from this appears to have vanished into fresh air. Dale is a conman crook who has a history of ripping people off and liquidating companys. This guy is destroying peoples livelihoods and purposley running the club into the ground. Suggesting that he is running the club properly is beyond farsical and imo the suggestion that he is ruined a great and very factual post
Not all of our fans have lapped it up. Personally I have been saying from day 1 of Stewart Days tenure that this will end in tears. Admission prices got reduced the wage bill shot up massively while attendances and income remained the same. Anybody with a single brain cell ( admittedly a lot of our fans do not seem to have) could see how this would end and unfortunately we have now come to that point.
I can not say we deserve what is now happening (most likely liquidation) but on the other hand I do agree we should not be allowed to get away with it unpunished. However the EFL and the whole fit and proper test needs to be looked at big time for sitting back and allowing this mess to develop. It is a total disgrace that guys like Day and Dale are allowed anywhere near professional football clubs
I suppose a lot of people will say that Steve Dale's current actions is karma for years and years of mismanagement over spending and living beyond our means. To a extent i can agree with that even though it hurts to say it but ultimately no matter what happened i would never wish our current position on any supporter of any other club. I would never wish that another club goes bump and over a 100 years of history goes with it.
Everything considered i genuinely believe that this is the end for Bury F.C. We have been rescued numerous times from deaths door but it would appear the we have finally run out of lives. If that gives you satisfaction then so be it but bare in mind not everybody lapped it up and turned a blind eye to what was going on at the club. A lot of very good and honest people are being affected massively by this whole debacle
Good luck for next season and the future
[Post edited 28 May 2019 4:22]
Some fair points Katula but re the 3rd paragraph on Steve Dale taking out of the club, I don't think you accept that even that money in will even scrape the surface of your current predicament.
All the cashflow from a couple of 7,000 gates, the money from the Checkatrade semi-final and the payment from the EFL alongside next season's season ticket money HAS BEEN USED.
Nicky Adams even said himself most months last season players were paid later than contracted - effectively any money coming in to bury paid off older debts than the current month and now there is nothing coming in, there is nothing that can be paid out because Steve Dale, rightly or wrongly, won't put up the cash to honour those historic commitments.
Add to that, bury have borrowed against the future EFL money as an advanced loan, until the season starts you have zero income.
In the interim and on the cost side, bury have a pile of historic trading debts left by Stewart Day and have had a couple of trips to court, a run in with Chris Brass and still have the VAT man to pay.
VAT is by its very nature a forward cashflow that bury have had the benefit of from the initial collection from customers but seemingly cannot pay to HMRC because they have used it.
That VAT not being paid is a loss to me and everyone else who is a UK taxpayer because it funds vital public services.
Legal fees are not cheap and if you don't pay your lawyer then they will not represent you. I suspect bury's lawyer and barrister have received their accounts up to date.
It comes back to the very simple principle of spending more than you earn.
Steve Dale just isn't supportive of that principle.
Stewart Day was. Terry Robinson was. Hugh Eaves was.
This isn't me wishing another club goes bust, but me noting that for over 25 years you've lived outside your means. That's older than the age of some of our supporters!
If you borrow money it eventually either has to be repaid or if you can't repay it you fold and surrender the asset is is secured on.
I felt and feel exactly the same about Stockport County. They were promoted to League 1 with a squad they couldn't afford and shortly after it all came crashing down.
On the pitch they beat us fair and square three times that season, including at Wembley. They were the better footballing team.
Off the pitch, we are and were streets ahead of them simply because we didn't acquire what we couldn't afford. We subsequently have had most of that winning team pass through our club, broadly for free transfers where we have met the wage expectations.
I expect the same from some of the current crop of BL9. The players are going to go wherever is best for them. Forget the kissing of the badge - some of them will like the fact wages are paid on time and in full. I can't think of a Rochdale player who complained about not being paid their wages.
As I said in a previous post, bury will have another go and at a lower level in the pyramid and rebuild. The success of that will be down to you and the other fans who stick by the pheonix club.
AFC Wimbledon are a great case of what can be achieved by starting again. Clubs like Exeter City have a phenomenal supporter representation within their club.
442 regularly makes some great points about the independent supporters body of a club holding the stewards of their club to account. Ours does and will and for all differences of opinion on our messageboard between various posters we are collectively robust at that.
When 19th June comes, someone needs to ask Forever bury why they gave their shares and say away without a fight. Why would they do that? Ask Dave Giffard or Joy Hart what really happened and why, collectively the entity that saved bury in 2002 isn't now out banging the drum. Eerie silence usually have good reasons behind them.
It's never just one thing that kills a business its a collection of issues and bury has five or six very serious ones that aren't going to go away. Day and Dale need to explain their behaviour but so too do Forever bury.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
If you've a spare couple of hours and/or need cheering up here are four videos that were recorded by bury fc at the time and published on 28 June 2013.
The third one, which is Stewart Day's inaugural address as new Chairman is the best one by miles.
REVOLUTION my ar*e. The lies told here, individually and collectively, were SPECTACULAR.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
I've been having a think about our friends down the road and think I've spotted some classic signs that may signpost where things are headed...
The Stages of Grief
We've seen Shock and Denial play out from the moment they realised SD2 wasn't quite what they thought he was. Some even thought there was some hope in his actions.
We've seen Anger manifest at the gates to SD2's home on bank holiday Monday.
Bargaining is starting to surface now, as the fan groups meet, trying to find some sort of compromise in the situation.
Depression will kick in on the morning of the 19th of June when there has been no movement and the club is in court. We may even see early shoots of Acceptance that same day.
We all go through these stages at different times, some may already be at the acceptance stage.
I hope Bury Council are going to set up some sort of counselling service.
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tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:24 - May 28 with 3884 views
You couldn’t write some of what they’re hearing at that meeting tonight.
They really are amazing. This director bloke who turned up (who they were all slating before tonight) has told them what they want to hear and they responded by giving him “the biggest applause of the night.”
They really will never, ever, ever learn will they?
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tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:32 - May 28 with 3846 views
tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:24 - May 28 by VivaDonaldo
I've been having a think about our friends down the road and think I've spotted some classic signs that may signpost where things are headed...
The Stages of Grief
We've seen Shock and Denial play out from the moment they realised SD2 wasn't quite what they thought he was. Some even thought there was some hope in his actions.
We've seen Anger manifest at the gates to SD2's home on bank holiday Monday.
Bargaining is starting to surface now, as the fan groups meet, trying to find some sort of compromise in the situation.
Depression will kick in on the morning of the 19th of June when there has been no movement and the club is in court. We may even see early shoots of Acceptance that same day.
We all go through these stages at different times, some may already be at the acceptance stage.
I hope Bury Council are going to set up some sort of counselling service.
I hope Bury Council are going to set up some sort of counselling service.
If they do they should insist on payment in advance.
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tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:33 - May 28 with 3841 views
tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:24 - May 28 by kel
They really are amazing. This director bloke who turned up (who they were all slating before tonight) has told them what they want to hear and they responded by giving him “the biggest applause of the night.”
They really will never, ever, ever learn will they?
That round of applause coming after confirming that “just” £6.5m will clear the debts....
Even administration won’t cure that. They’re done.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
I’m struggling to sift through that thread about their meeting to try and establish what they all managed to sort in terms of next moves going forward.
eg. Any clear statements and achievable objectives from Forever Bury? Follow up process on what the director who they all clapped LOTS AND LOTS said?
There has got to be a full report of the meeting produced for all Bury fans to establish that these sort of things have been covered. There is nothing more infuriating than half a story with wishy-washy structure that leads to unnecessary questions that could have already been answered, it reflects badly on anyone who wants such meetings to be taken seriously. Not saying this will be the case after tonight, but that will be illustrated when such a report is produced by the various people/groups involved.
tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:33 - May 28 by RAFCBLUE
That round of applause coming after confirming that “just” £6.5m will clear the debts....
Even administration won’t cure that. They’re done.
Why do you think the ironically surnamed Dale has stumped up the princely sum of a quid in order to acquire such a debt ridden business, whose only future seems to be in liquidation? Because the levels of debt are so eye watering they must be putting off even the most bottomless of pits?
I cannot see administration is even remotely an option.
Some consolation I suppose is that HMRC will have reduced debts in that PAYE will not be due on unpaid salaries.
It's hard to imagine anyone paying £6.5m and then having to pony up for a team and, if they go into admin a points deduction to boot. It would be much easier to put £7m or £8M into a decent League 1 or 2 club where it would make a substantial difference, not just get you to the starting line for the new season.
Oh, and their 2018 accounts are 3 months overdue now so who really knows what their position is to the nearest Million or two, or four?
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tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:03 - May 28 with 3648 views
There’s a post about the meeting which says “a lot revealed that cannot be put into the public domain”. Erm, it was a public meeting and there were members of the press there. Who is going to stop them reporting what was said?
tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:53 - May 28 by judd
Why do you think the ironically surnamed Dale has stumped up the princely sum of a quid in order to acquire such a debt ridden business, whose only future seems to be in liquidation? Because the levels of debt are so eye watering they must be putting off even the most bottomless of pits?
I cannot see administration is even remotely an option.
Some consolation I suppose is that HMRC will have reduced debts in that PAYE will not be due on unpaid salaries.
Simply put it is a zero risk investment for Dale.
Worst case - he loses his £1.
Best case - he makes a substantial return - either with a viable sellable business or its assets.
You don’t live in a £3m plus house being a bad investor and buying distressed assets can be a lucrative business.
And it is possibly about to bring a whole new meaning to the song:
“Dale, Dale will tear you apart again...”
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
tomorrow can't come quick enough on 21:24 - May 28 by kel
They really are amazing. This director bloke who turned up (who they were all slating before tonight) has told them what they want to hear and they responded by giving him “the biggest applause of the night.”
They really will never, ever, ever learn will they?
Just returned from the meeting and want to clarity the directed in question did anything but tell the fans what we wanted to hear. Tbh it was quite the opposite
Many were sceptical about him before tonight and rightly so. It was not clear what his link to Dale was or who's side he is really on but after the meeting I would say without hesitation he is no friend or business associate of Steve Dale
What become apparant is that Steve Dale will not entertain any offers unless 1.5 million is in it for him. He will accept 1.5 million and walk away leaving all the debt or wants 6.5 million to walk away with what he says the club being debt free. Either way he says he is owed money for the time and work he has put in to the club. It was also confirmed his entire investment in the club is a staggering £1
The guy is beyond a disgrace
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tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:34 - May 28 with 3517 views
tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:25 - May 28 by Katula
Just returned from the meeting and want to clarity the directed in question did anything but tell the fans what we wanted to hear. Tbh it was quite the opposite
Many were sceptical about him before tonight and rightly so. It was not clear what his link to Dale was or who's side he is really on but after the meeting I would say without hesitation he is no friend or business associate of Steve Dale
What become apparant is that Steve Dale will not entertain any offers unless 1.5 million is in it for him. He will accept 1.5 million and walk away leaving all the debt or wants 6.5 million to walk away with what he says the club being debt free. Either way he says he is owed money for the time and work he has put in to the club. It was also confirmed his entire investment in the club is a staggering £1
The guy is beyond a disgrace
I fully empathise with you and your humble approach to the reality of the situation.
I have just read the thread on Beardyman linked on here and some think that liquidation cannot happen if a director says no.
tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:34 - May 28 by judd
I fully empathise with you and your humble approach to the reality of the situation.
I have just read the thread on Beardyman linked on here and some think that liquidation cannot happen if a director says no.
There you go then. Sorted.
Good luck and keep posting on here.
Thanks for that
It was said the director in question has a meeting scheduled with the top man at the EFL tomorrow. He also admitted that the EFL will make a decision very shortly and atm he expects that they will revoke our membership so liquidation will be the only option. Apparantly Plymouth and Notts County have already been informed to prepare both clubs to move up a league
Dale is hanging on for his money but no way will the EFL wait till the 19th of June to see where we stand. With no deal being even remotely close to being completed they will have no choice but to expell us from the league
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tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:51 - May 28 with 3455 views
tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:25 - May 28 by Katula
Just returned from the meeting and want to clarity the directed in question did anything but tell the fans what we wanted to hear. Tbh it was quite the opposite
Many were sceptical about him before tonight and rightly so. It was not clear what his link to Dale was or who's side he is really on but after the meeting I would say without hesitation he is no friend or business associate of Steve Dale
What become apparant is that Steve Dale will not entertain any offers unless 1.5 million is in it for him. He will accept 1.5 million and walk away leaving all the debt or wants 6.5 million to walk away with what he says the club being debt free. Either way he says he is owed money for the time and work he has put in to the club. It was also confirmed his entire investment in the club is a staggering £1
The guy is beyond a disgrace
Fair play as you were there and obviously I wasn’t.
I had a quick gander at the videos linked earlier on this page and it just reminded me of that where the people attending were like clapping seals when Blackwell and Day spoke. I just find it staggering that the bloke has gone from being fully complicit in what Dale is up to, to then being hailed as some kind of hero. Surely you lot must have learnt that an hour of a blokes time saying all the right things should be treated with some kind of caution.
[Post edited 28 May 2019 22:52]
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tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:56 - May 28 with 3431 views
tomorrow can't come quick enough on 22:49 - May 28 by Katula
Thanks for that
It was said the director in question has a meeting scheduled with the top man at the EFL tomorrow. He also admitted that the EFL will make a decision very shortly and atm he expects that they will revoke our membership so liquidation will be the only option. Apparantly Plymouth and Notts County have already been informed to prepare both clubs to move up a league
Dale is hanging on for his money but no way will the EFL wait till the 19th of June to see where we stand. With no deal being even remotely close to being completed they will have no choice but to expell us from the league
Chalky may have the last laugh after all then.
Am I right in thinking that the only club ever expelled was Leeds City? Seem to remember that as a quiz question somewhere.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
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