| Football League shake up? 09:49 - May 6 with 4413 views | Dale_Mike |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27289819
FA looking at shake-up of league structure
A new competition for Premier League and Championship clubs to field B teams will be considered by the Football Association on Wednesday.
It has been proposed that the teams could play in a league sandwiched between League Two and the Conference.
Another option is to merge League Two and the Conference with the B teams to form two regional leagues.
The proposals are part of FA chairman Greg Dyke's commission on the future of the national team.
It is understood that the Premier League and Football League clubs are broadly in favour of the B team concept, which would be predominantly made up of homegrown players, but have reservations about how it might fit into the pyramid and the knock-on effects to other leagues and competitions.
One question is whether current League Two clubs would be relegated into the Conference or the new B team league if they went down. The other difficult issue is how far could B teams be promoted?
Despite those worries, one source told the BBC that following more than 300 interviews with clubs and other stakeholders in the game, led by research consultant Peter Beverley, there was a universal acceptance that a major overhaul was needed to ensure big clubs' reserve teams and younger English talent were being given more regular, competitive football.
Commission members point to the fact that clubs in Spain, France and Germany all play B teams in competitive leagues - thought to be a big factor in those countries developing talent.
Dyke is believed to be keen to open the debate about the state of the national game ahead of the World Cup finals in Brazil which kick off on 12 June.
There is a determination to get on the front foot ahead of the tournament to pre-empt the inevitable debate which will follow if Roy Hodgson's England team put in a disappointing performance in Brazil.
Ironically the emergence of players like Raheem Sterling at Liverpool and Adam Lallana at Southampton have taken some of the heat out of that debate in recent months.
And some senior figures inside the FA are urging Dyke to hold fire until after the competition and until all the finer details of the commission's proposals are ironed out.
The Dyke commission was set up last autumn to try and address ongoing concerns about the strength of the English national team and the lack of top-class English talent forcing its way through into Premier League first teams.
The commission, which includes former England manager Glenn Hoddle, former Leeds boss Howard Wilkinson and ex-Crewe manager Dario Gradi, is aiming to deal with two major questions - the pathway for players aged between 17 and 21 and grassroots facilities.
While it is thought the commission has done extensive work on the first question, the issue of grassroots football is not yet complete.
Other proposals expected to go before the FA board on Wednesday include a shake-up of the loan system and changes to the homegrown player quotas operated by Premier League and Football League clubs.
But it is the B team proposal that promises to be the most controversial. |  | | |  |
| Football League shake up? on 10:49 - May 6 with 4326 views | D_Alien |
Anything that might result in teams currently in L2/Conference being pushed further down the pyramid is a non-starter.
Not against the concept of B teams as such (they seem to work well on the continent) but not at the expense of clubs whose existence for 100+ years has been the heartbeat of the football league.
A regionalisation of leagues below L1 with B teams mixed in might be more palatable.
Plus, have the B teams starting below the Conference and work their way up through promotion - but where do you draw the line at promotion? To the premiership? What if their parent club ends up in L1 ?? [Post edited 6 May 2014 10:53]
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| Football League shake up? on 11:37 - May 6 with 4240 views | windowsbug |
If its about home grown players....
Just make a rule that they have to play a set number of British players.
Before anyone says the leagues cant do that because of employment laws, they can employ who they want but im sure the league(s) could stipulate how many non British can be named in a team.
It just seems to me that when the premiershit teams cry foul everyone has to listen. They've made a rod for their own backs.
I for one couldn't give a hoot over the national team of overpaid prima Donnas. |  | | |
| Football League shake up? on 11:39 - May 6 with 4234 views | BarryStrange |
| Football League shake up? on 10:49 - May 6 by D_Alien |
Anything that might result in teams currently in L2/Conference being pushed further down the pyramid is a non-starter.
Not against the concept of B teams as such (they seem to work well on the continent) but not at the expense of clubs whose existence for 100+ years has been the heartbeat of the football league.
A regionalisation of leagues below L1 with B teams mixed in might be more palatable.
Plus, have the B teams starting below the Conference and work their way up through promotion - but where do you draw the line at promotion? To the premiership? What if their parent club ends up in L1 ?? [Post edited 6 May 2014 10:53]
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To correct your first sentence, it "should be" a non-starter. But we both know it is a genuine possibility. I think we all know how much the FA give of a toss about Dale, Bury, Northampton, whoever.
The FA would kick us out to the conference in a heartbeat so an Aston Villa B team full of Scandinavian teenagers can have our league place. All for the glory of the England national team you understand.
You know, the one every club fan cares less about than they do their own club. | | | |
| Football League shake up? on 11:56 - May 6 with 4199 views | D_Alien |
| Football League shake up? on 11:39 - May 6 by BarryStrange |
To correct your first sentence, it "should be" a non-starter. But we both know it is a genuine possibility. I think we all know how much the FA give of a toss about Dale, Bury, Northampton, whoever.
The FA would kick us out to the conference in a heartbeat so an Aston Villa B team full of Scandinavian teenagers can have our league place. All for the glory of the England national team you understand.
You know, the one every club fan cares less about than they do their own club. |
You're right, of course. "Should be a non-starter" would apply if teams below the premiership were acquiescent about the FA / FL riding roughshod over them.
I don't believe this would be taken lying down though. The spirit of those who formed the breakaway Rugby League from the Rugby Union still exists, if interests were to be sufficiently threatened. | |
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| Football League shake up? on 12:11 - May 6 with 4164 views | fermin |
| Football League shake up? on 10:49 - May 6 by D_Alien |
Anything that might result in teams currently in L2/Conference being pushed further down the pyramid is a non-starter.
Not against the concept of B teams as such (they seem to work well on the continent) but not at the expense of clubs whose existence for 100+ years has been the heartbeat of the football league.
A regionalisation of leagues below L1 with B teams mixed in might be more palatable.
Plus, have the B teams starting below the Conference and work their way up through promotion - but where do you draw the line at promotion? To the premiership? What if their parent club ends up in L1 ?? [Post edited 6 May 2014 10:53]
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I would question whether or not it works well on the continent. My understanding is that fans of real clubs resent playing reserve teams with limited support and no real commitment to the particular league competition. It might work well for the big teams but not for anyone else.
[Post edited 23 May 2014 13:25]
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| Football League shake up? on 13:11 - May 6 with 4070 views | pioneer |
This is a serious threat to football league clubs (past, present and future) - for every set of teenage foreigners playing under badges of convenience that enter it means one less place for independent traditional teams. I hope the Boltons, Blackburns, Hulls, Watfords, Swanseas, Fulhams etc remember that they have been down in what is now Division 2 (we dont need remind Portsmouth of course).
I think if this was to happen it would compromise the value of the lower divisions as teams like the Dale, who struggle mightily to make ends meet and avoid going into debt would be up against teams from organisations with multi million dollar budgets/payrolls.
If it happens I think it will be the end of my days watching football. | | | |
| Football League shake up? on 14:26 - May 6 with 3984 views | ColDale |
Its good that they are proposing that these clubs who can't run one team without saddling themselves with millions of pounds of debt are now looking at running two teams. That'll sort it out.
If the national side is the sacrifice that we have to have for the League structure, then so be it. As has been said, more people are bothered about club sides than the National side, and if they really wanted to, legislation allowing youth development and their inclusion in matchday squads would be easy to integrate - divvy out the TV money in such a way that such inclusion was rewarded.
European employment law won't count against it if teams were allowed to pick who they want but the bulk of the tv money only goes to them if they have three English U-21 players in their squad in every game.
I hate to be all conspiracy theorist about all of this, but I don't think they'll be happy until there is only sixteen franchises who take all of the TV money without a penny drip feeding down. They'll play the community card by saying that this allows families to watch their favourite team('s reserves)at an affordable price.
From the 30 man England squad for the Denmark game, there's an astonishing number of players who were given their professional debut in the Football league or lower. |  | | |
| Football League shake up? on 14:41 - May 6 with 3961 views | TalkingSutty |
| Football League shake up? on 13:11 - May 6 by pioneer |
This is a serious threat to football league clubs (past, present and future) - for every set of teenage foreigners playing under badges of convenience that enter it means one less place for independent traditional teams. I hope the Boltons, Blackburns, Hulls, Watfords, Swanseas, Fulhams etc remember that they have been down in what is now Division 2 (we dont need remind Portsmouth of course).
I think if this was to happen it would compromise the value of the lower divisions as teams like the Dale, who struggle mightily to make ends meet and avoid going into debt would be up against teams from organisations with multi million dollar budgets/payrolls.
If it happens I think it will be the end of my days watching football. |
That will be the end of my Dale watching days also. Fed up to the back teeth of the Premiership and all it represents. They sign the best foreign talent from around the world and then expect to hijack the history of football league clubs/pyramid system in order to keep their elite young players happy, cheeky bas**rds.
If the football league roll over and let this happen it will be the last time i ever pay to attend a football match. If the Premiership had cascaded down to the lower leagues and ensured they got a slice of the financial cake over the years then you might consider their suggestions but we all know they don't give a toss about the clubs in the lower divisions. Who is this Gregg Dyke fella anyway, what`s his credentials? |  | | |
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| Football League shake up? on 15:29 - May 6 with 3887 views | BarryStrange |
| Football League shake up? on 14:41 - May 6 by TalkingSutty |
That will be the end of my Dale watching days also. Fed up to the back teeth of the Premiership and all it represents. They sign the best foreign talent from around the world and then expect to hijack the history of football league clubs/pyramid system in order to keep their elite young players happy, cheeky bas**rds.
If the football league roll over and let this happen it will be the last time i ever pay to attend a football match. If the Premiership had cascaded down to the lower leagues and ensured they got a slice of the financial cake over the years then you might consider their suggestions but we all know they don't give a toss about the clubs in the lower divisions. Who is this Gregg Dyke fella anyway, what`s his credentials? |
Yep, sadly if this happens then I reckon I would pack the memories of Bury FC up good and bad and so something else with my time than watching football.
Of course this en masse would kill the clubs like Bury, Dale, Oldham and eventually many further up. But what would be the point of the meaningless competitions we would be assigned entry to anyway? That's the funny thing with a berk like Gartside at Bolton - he just doesn't get that once Bury, Dale, then Blackpool, Barnsley get swallowed up his place will be next.
How do the morons running the FA not get the fairly simple premise that the failure of the England team over time is nothing to do with the lack of a competitive reserve league - it is down to them letting whoever the hell will stump up the cash buy the big clubs and then seeming surprise when a manager fighting for his life because he only ever gets 6 weeks in a job keeps buying and playing foreign imports rather than giving English players the chance to learn the game.
Even within the Premiership - Daniel Sturridge only became good when he spent half a year at Bolton.
I really resent the implication that by opposing having a structure that has worked well for generations being destroyed to allow massive clubs which run up huge debts they never intend to honour a second place in the league I am in some way being unpatriotic.
Not that, to be fair, I give 10 per cent of the toss about England that I do about Bury. | | | |
| Football League shake up? on 15:43 - May 6 with 3858 views | Sandyman |
It would be very difficult to stop being a Dale fan whatever league they got pushed into. But I would never watch another England match or pay a single penny towards (Sky, BT, watching in the pub etc) whatever bullshit big club structure was left.
Wasn't Dyke involved with Brentford for a while? Surely he isn't so stupid as to understand what lower league football is about, and the benefits it has on recruiting English players and fans into the game? |  | | |
| Football League shake up? on 17:04 - May 6 with 3756 views | macro |
Set up a b team league by all means but as a separate league with no links to the fl. |  | | |
| Football League shake up? on 17:05 - May 6 with 3754 views | ColDale |
| Football League shake up? on 17:04 - May 6 by macro |
Set up a b team league by all means but as a separate league with no links to the fl. |
They've already got a Premiership U-21 league, and if as we are constantly being told that part of the problem in this country is that we put results ahead of developing, then giving any sort of inflated sense of importance to what is in all essence a reserve league, will only be counter productive. | | | |
| Football League shake up? on 17:13 - May 6 with 3739 views | macro |
| Football League shake up? on 17:05 - May 6 by ColDale |
They've already got a Premiership U-21 league, and if as we are constantly being told that part of the problem in this country is that we put results ahead of developing, then giving any sort of inflated sense of importance to what is in all essence a reserve league, will only be counter productive. |
U21 league replaced reserve league what they want is a switch back to it or alongside u21 league, whatever they do it'll have a detrimental affect if the new league is given the promotion they want. What will they do when arsenal b in a decade win promotion to the prem? | | | |
| Football League shake up? on 18:36 - May 6 with 3653 views | pioneer |
| Football League shake up? on 14:41 - May 6 by TalkingSutty |
That will be the end of my Dale watching days also. Fed up to the back teeth of the Premiership and all it represents. They sign the best foreign talent from around the world and then expect to hijack the history of football league clubs/pyramid system in order to keep their elite young players happy, cheeky bas**rds.
If the football league roll over and let this happen it will be the last time i ever pay to attend a football match. If the Premiership had cascaded down to the lower leagues and ensured they got a slice of the financial cake over the years then you might consider their suggestions but we all know they don't give a toss about the clubs in the lower divisions. Who is this Gregg Dyke fella anyway, what`s his credentials? |
from Wikipedia
"Gregory "Greg" Dyke (born 20 May 1947) is a British media executive, journalist and broadcaster and is currently chairman of The Football Association (FA). Since the 1960s, Dyke has had a long career in the United Kingdom in print and then broadcast journalism. He is credited with introducing 'tabloid' television to British broadcasting, and reviving the ratings of TV-am. In the 1990s, he held Chief Executive positions at LWT Group, Pearson Television and Channel 5. He is most notable for his tenure as Director-General of the BBC from January 2000 until 29 January 2004, a position from which he resigned following heavy criticism of the BBC's news reporting process in the Hutton Inquiry. He is the chairman of children's television company HiT Entertainment and has been Chancellor of the University of York since 2004."
So, no football (or sporting) background - a journalist with a reputation for screwing up. | | | |
| Football League shake up? on 20:13 - May 6 with 3561 views | Toffeemanc |
| Football League shake up? on 18:36 - May 6 by pioneer |
from Wikipedia
"Gregory "Greg" Dyke (born 20 May 1947) is a British media executive, journalist and broadcaster and is currently chairman of The Football Association (FA). Since the 1960s, Dyke has had a long career in the United Kingdom in print and then broadcast journalism. He is credited with introducing 'tabloid' television to British broadcasting, and reviving the ratings of TV-am. In the 1990s, he held Chief Executive positions at LWT Group, Pearson Television and Channel 5. He is most notable for his tenure as Director-General of the BBC from January 2000 until 29 January 2004, a position from which he resigned following heavy criticism of the BBC's news reporting process in the Hutton Inquiry. He is the chairman of children's television company HiT Entertainment and has been Chancellor of the University of York since 2004."
So, no football (or sporting) background - a journalist with a reputation for screwing up. |
Think you will find he was chairman of Brentford for a number of years.
You would hope he would be able to see the bigger picture relating to the smaller clubs with his experience there of how the lower league operate. |  |
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| Football League shake up? on 22:39 - May 6 with 3449 views | blackpoolcol |
Why not just adopt a very simple structure
(1) "First team squad" named as up to 20 players "over 21". Up to 10 "under 21" players allowed additionally to the squad. No players can be added to the squad until the next window or end of season. Max of 2 non EU nationals in squad.
(2) "Reserve team squad" - fully name squad similar to the first team squad.
(3) "Youth Team"
This would then allow the "reserve" squad to have a proper league and not have this useless scheme which would only go to killing off the lower leagues. The rest of Europe do not have the league structure we have of professional football clubs down to the fifth tier of the game! |  |
| With my little stick of Blackpool Rock, along the promenade I'll stroll |
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| Football League shake up? on 02:54 - May 7 with 3366 views | RochdaleLeeds |
| Football League shake up? on 22:39 - May 6 by blackpoolcol |
Why not just adopt a very simple structure
(1) "First team squad" named as up to 20 players "over 21". Up to 10 "under 21" players allowed additionally to the squad. No players can be added to the squad until the next window or end of season. Max of 2 non EU nationals in squad.
(2) "Reserve team squad" - fully name squad similar to the first team squad.
(3) "Youth Team"
This would then allow the "reserve" squad to have a proper league and not have this useless scheme which would only go to killing off the lower leagues. The rest of Europe do not have the league structure we have of professional football clubs down to the fifth tier of the game! |
THIS IS AN OPINION AND IM NOT TRYING TO START AN ARGUEMENT.
the rest of Europe has come on leaps and bounds regards to bringing through young talent and improving player standards (technical, tactical, social and mental).
England has decreased, the amount of young players coming through deteriorating,
The reserve league is a sham, its going through the motions, its not competitive enough for younger players.
Until they bring through a complete plan for re-structure its hard to give a definitive statement about if it would work or not. From my point of view the 'B' squad would be good enough youth players and just not quite there first teamers, actually giving them real competitive playing time
Again they would have to define the amount of players from other nationalities/age groups in the B squad.
Adding 1/2 teams to each league so its 26 teams in each league a possibility.
Setting up a fifth division below league 2/above conference as an actual league.
Relegating teams which are not able to fully stabilize themselves financially, un-stable grounds for full capacity. Teams not up to certain standards which could be working in community, youth structure, coaching standards.
The overall plan is to help improve the standard and amount of English youth players coming through the system, people whinge that the FA are not helping and here they are trying to help and WHAM!, people start saying thats wrong, what above them.... Its clear to see its worked in other countries and in other countries the level of home grown standards has improved massively.
The FA, designed youth modules to help coaches be more understanding of youth players from the ages as low as 5. Giving them the confidence and opportunity to improve their social mental and technical ability.
The next step would be to allow younger players the opportunity to play at a higher level competitively each week to help improve their overall game - this is what they are trying.
Having the best leagues in the world does not concern me, having the best young English players coming through the system each season & giving them the opportunity to be the best that they can be IS what concerns me. Most of you don't care for the international team because its full of overpaid pre-madonnas, yes? Well, Imagine if there was a hell of a lot more top english players fighting it out for a position in the england squad, would be a hell of a difference in my eyes.
Im not saying im right, however Id be happy to see a re-structure.
Im sure Keith Hill said something in his interview earlier about improving players by coaching, well improve the coaching at the lower league clubs and theres a lot less chances that team could get relegated out of the football league. |  | | |
| Football League shake up? on 04:22 - May 7 with 3357 views | AtThePeake |
| Football League shake up? on 02:54 - May 7 by RochdaleLeeds |
THIS IS AN OPINION AND IM NOT TRYING TO START AN ARGUEMENT.
the rest of Europe has come on leaps and bounds regards to bringing through young talent and improving player standards (technical, tactical, social and mental).
England has decreased, the amount of young players coming through deteriorating,
The reserve league is a sham, its going through the motions, its not competitive enough for younger players.
Until they bring through a complete plan for re-structure its hard to give a definitive statement about if it would work or not. From my point of view the 'B' squad would be good enough youth players and just not quite there first teamers, actually giving them real competitive playing time
Again they would have to define the amount of players from other nationalities/age groups in the B squad.
Adding 1/2 teams to each league so its 26 teams in each league a possibility.
Setting up a fifth division below league 2/above conference as an actual league.
Relegating teams which are not able to fully stabilize themselves financially, un-stable grounds for full capacity. Teams not up to certain standards which could be working in community, youth structure, coaching standards.
The overall plan is to help improve the standard and amount of English youth players coming through the system, people whinge that the FA are not helping and here they are trying to help and WHAM!, people start saying thats wrong, what above them.... Its clear to see its worked in other countries and in other countries the level of home grown standards has improved massively.
The FA, designed youth modules to help coaches be more understanding of youth players from the ages as low as 5. Giving them the confidence and opportunity to improve their social mental and technical ability.
The next step would be to allow younger players the opportunity to play at a higher level competitively each week to help improve their overall game - this is what they are trying.
Having the best leagues in the world does not concern me, having the best young English players coming through the system each season & giving them the opportunity to be the best that they can be IS what concerns me. Most of you don't care for the international team because its full of overpaid pre-madonnas, yes? Well, Imagine if there was a hell of a lot more top english players fighting it out for a position in the england squad, would be a hell of a difference in my eyes.
Im not saying im right, however Id be happy to see a re-structure.
Im sure Keith Hill said something in his interview earlier about improving players by coaching, well improve the coaching at the lower league clubs and theres a lot less chances that team could get relegated out of the football league. |
SOME of Europe has come on leaps and bounds. And SOME of those European teams use this system. It's
Has England decreased? Since when? Let's remember just how bad England were during the 70s, for example? We're not regressing whatsoever. Compared to the rest of the world, we're about the same as we've been on average throughout history.
The reserve league is a sham - but the better players in that league get a chance on loan. Where is their proof that playing for a reserve team in a lower league is better than playing for a lower league team on loan?
A 26 team league is almost unheard of. 50 league games alone in a season would be incredibly difficult for clubs of our size - how would we be able to manage a small squad for so many games plus of course the three cup competitions we enter? |  |
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