| Just Back... 18:45 - Dec 26 with 6052 views | kropotkin41 |
Well, erm, in no particular order.
1. Chair looked energetic when he came on.
2. If we'd scored in that little spell at the start of the second half, well..it would have been better.
3. Paul Smyth was industrious.
4. I felt like we tried after halftime.
Nice to see a match in the company of enthusiastic RRs fans! A treat for me even with the result. Hope everyone gets home safely - there was a lot of fog when we left Swansea. |  |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Just Back... on 11:09 - Dec 27 with 1203 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Just Back... on 08:48 - Dec 27 by Rsole |
‘I gave a view and nothing more than a passing sarcastic opinion about posters who say the same thing time and time again without evidence about Nourry’
As an editor and writer, I assume that you understand the power of written words and that sarcasm can sometimes come across much more powerfully when used in text and there’s no tone of voice or body language to help balance it out.
There’s also little context applied when comments get read in isolation (multi-thread memory is not always available) so sometimes we can collectively experience potential overreaction.
Perhaps you can help us out with your understanding and compelling use of the English language so that we argue less and maybe spend more time helping and supporting each other when results don’t go well. |
I'd be happy if that were to happen, as most of my ire/pain is around QPR and only derivatively some of the discussions/discussants on here. I also think you're right that the question of tone is, and can only be, read - and sometimes misread - 'between the lines' on a board like this one. If everyone knew each other in person, or people could meet and sort out their differences over a pint, a lot of this hot air probably wouldn't arise. |  |
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| Just Back... on 11:11 - Dec 27 with 1217 views | baz_qpr |
| Just Back... on 08:34 - Dec 27 by Rsole |
I’m not a footballer, a manager, a pundit, an ITK or a CEO - just a simple fan that has watched, supported and occasionally celebrated QPR for several decades.
I can understand that disruptive changes took place close to kick off but I seriously hope that we don’t plan to start with the same back line for the next game. Maybe it will look more like the back four at the end of the game than the four that started it with Dunne and JCS in the centre providing a better balance. Why it took so long to adjust the defence however is beyond me because it was painful to watch the dysfunction and imbalance.
What was even less explicable was the lack of any system (and associated possession) ahead of the defence because that wasn’t really changed in terms of personnel at all.
Maybe Swansea were simply better, had a better plan and/or ate/drank less over Xmas. They were certainly good value for their 3 points in the first half and at times during the game, it felt and looked like they had more players on the pitch because they passed around us so easily.
That’s the part that seems the hardest to explain because we’d seemingly managed to find a system and shape that prevented other teams from doing that when we didn’t have the ball previously.
Hoping it was a mental/physical blip that can be corrected but time is not our friend between these games and Norwich will be looking at revenge so you can bet they should have a better game plan than last time.
Maybe the lack of system was a cunning plan to befuddle and lull them into a false sense of security. It befuddled me at times but that’s not too difficult, as my dogs will confirm. [Post edited 27 Dec 8:34]
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We had a system, but because the defence was 10 -15 metres too deep (lack of confidence after they walked through us down the left in the first minute) it pulled the midfield back and they could press us. We could not press them without leaving a huge gap in the centre of midfield. All problems stemmed from the back 4. Saito and Smyth were playing practically as wing backs first half |  | | |
| Just Back... on 11:15 - Dec 27 with 1196 views | gazza1 |
| Just Back... on 11:11 - Dec 27 by baz_qpr |
We had a system, but because the defence was 10 -15 metres too deep (lack of confidence after they walked through us down the left in the first minute) it pulled the midfield back and they could press us. We could not press them without leaving a huge gap in the centre of midfield. All problems stemmed from the back 4. Saito and Smyth were playing practically as wing backs first half |
Very simplistic view indeed......... |  | | |
| Just Back... on 11:15 - Dec 27 with 1199 views | mart_Goblin |
| Just Back... on 08:48 - Dec 27 by Rsole |
‘I gave a view and nothing more than a passing sarcastic opinion about posters who say the same thing time and time again without evidence about Nourry’
As an editor and writer, I assume that you understand the power of written words and that sarcasm can sometimes come across much more powerfully when used in text and there’s no tone of voice or body language to help balance it out.
There’s also little context applied when comments get read in isolation (multi-thread memory is not always available) so sometimes we can collectively experience potential overreaction.
Perhaps you can help us out with your understanding and compelling use of the English language so that we argue less and maybe spend more time helping and supporting each other when results don’t go well. |
I admire the attempt but you are completely wasting your time . |  | | |
| Just Back... on 11:16 - Dec 27 with 1196 views | cyprusmel |
If you can't find your own player with a pass you are always going to be on the back foot. Countless times yesterday we had possession and gave the ball away.
Would be also nice if we could get our corners up and over the first man where our tall players are waiting.
Corners and free kicks are vital for us when under pressure and we fail to make the most of them. | | | |
| Just Back... on 11:25 - Dec 27 with 1132 views | gazza1 |
My question is, and I do not know the answer(s), why did so many of the players play so poor or were totally ineffective during most of the match!!!! | | | |
| Just Back... on 11:39 - Dec 27 with 1091 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| Just Back... on 11:25 - Dec 27 by gazza1 |
My question is, and I do not know the answer(s), why did so many of the players play so poor or were totally ineffective during most of the match!!!! |
Bad day at the office, we move on. | | | |
| Just Back... on 11:42 - Dec 27 with 1082 views | eastside_r |
I am not sure that I can add anything to what has been posted already but someone casually remarked to me at half-time that that was the worst half half this season. I agreed but confirmed it definitely was.
Someone else nearby chipped in with 'that is the worst half I have ever seen'.
My retort was that I had been watching this lot for a long time so wasn't sure about that.
In hindsight I would concur that that first half would be in the top five (bottom five?) QPR performances that I have witnessed. Shockingly awful.
We marginally improved in the second half to 'very poor'. |  | | |
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| Just Back... on 11:42 - Dec 27 with 1078 views | TheChef |
Well quite.
QPR players in "not always able to play football well" shocker. |  |
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| Just Back... on 12:00 - Dec 27 with 1040 views | QPROslo |
| Just Back... on 11:00 - Dec 27 by derbyhoop |
We shouldn't have 2 left sided CBs, especially when JCS and Fox are SO 1 footed.
Assuming no Morrison, play Dunne and JCS at CB, Ashby at RB and either Fox or Paal at LB. |
We've been playing 2 right footers in Cook and Morrison at CB successfully so in theory 2 left footers shouldn't be such a big problem but it was. Depends who has the right or left peg I reckon. I think playing Field and JCS if fit enough at CB maybe our best option, Field has done well there, Dunne not so well. Keep Dunne at RB, Paal or Ashby at LB, and Morgan into the midfield alongside Varane, unless Colback is ready to start which he probably isn't.
We were terrible yesterday not just in central defence. I thought Swansea were very good and we couldn't get the ball off them. When we did we just gave it back again. Whole team looked well off their game, improved a bit by the 3 subs start of the 2nd half. | | | |
| Just Back... on 12:52 - Dec 27 with 931 views | Myke |
| Just Back... on 11:00 - Dec 27 by derbyhoop |
We shouldn't have 2 left sided CBs, especially when JCS and Fox are SO 1 footed.
Assuming no Morrison, play Dunne and JCS at CB, Ashby at RB and either Fox or Paal at LB. |
This. And it is actually that easy. We will never know if it would have changed the outcome of course. But you don't play your only available right-sided CB at RB. Last year Marti got Swansea spot on with his 4 CB's in defence. Yesterday he got it horribly wrong. Of course the players have to stand up and take ownership of their performance too. The defence was left completely exposed by the midfield and Saito was really poor for the 3rd consecutive game.
We all know that we got away with results against Oxford Cardiff and BC despite poor performances. Yesterday we got what we deserved. Now we need a reaction against Norwich who will be really up for 'revenge' | | | |
| Just Back... on 13:01 - Dec 27 with 894 views | QPunkR |
| Just Back... on 11:42 - Dec 27 by eastside_r |
I am not sure that I can add anything to what has been posted already but someone casually remarked to me at half-time that that was the worst half half this season. I agreed but confirmed it definitely was.
Someone else nearby chipped in with 'that is the worst half I have ever seen'.
My retort was that I had been watching this lot for a long time so wasn't sure about that.
In hindsight I would concur that that first half would be in the top five (bottom five?) QPR performances that I have witnessed. Shockingly awful.
We marginally improved in the second half to 'very poor'. |
I'd wager a couple more of those worst ever first halves came this season as well! |  |
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| Just Back... on 13:06 - Dec 27 with 844 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Just Back... on 11:15 - Dec 27 by mart_Goblin |
I admire the attempt but you are completely wasting your time . |
10/10 again for smug judgmentalism! Why don't you actually read my reply instead of tooting your own tedious little trumpet? | |
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| Just Back... on 13:08 - Dec 27 with 828 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Just Back... on 11:42 - Dec 27 by eastside_r |
I am not sure that I can add anything to what has been posted already but someone casually remarked to me at half-time that that was the worst half half this season. I agreed but confirmed it definitely was.
Someone else nearby chipped in with 'that is the worst half I have ever seen'.
My retort was that I had been watching this lot for a long time so wasn't sure about that.
In hindsight I would concur that that first half would be in the top five (bottom five?) QPR performances that I have witnessed. Shockingly awful.
We marginally improved in the second half to 'very poor'. |
I've been watching QPR for 48 years, and I've never - never - seen anything like that first half. They were an absoloute disgrace to their profession, and then some. | |
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| Just Back... on 13:19 - Dec 27 with 816 views | Northernr |
| Just Back... on 13:08 - Dec 27 by stainrods_elbow |
I've been watching QPR for 48 years, and I've never - never - seen anything like that first half. They were an absoloute disgrace to their profession, and then some. |
For goodness sake.
Step away from the keyboard now do everybody a favour. |  | | |
| Just Back... on 13:30 - Dec 27 with 774 views | A40Bosh |
| Just Back... on 12:52 - Dec 27 by Myke |
This. And it is actually that easy. We will never know if it would have changed the outcome of course. But you don't play your only available right-sided CB at RB. Last year Marti got Swansea spot on with his 4 CB's in defence. Yesterday he got it horribly wrong. Of course the players have to stand up and take ownership of their performance too. The defence was left completely exposed by the midfield and Saito was really poor for the 3rd consecutive game.
We all know that we got away with results against Oxford Cardiff and BC despite poor performances. Yesterday we got what we deserved. Now we need a reaction against Norwich who will be really up for 'revenge' |
Was thinking about this and what troubles me is that our best spells this season have been based on "being undefeated. So whilst the Dunne, Morrison, Cook, Pall back 4 with Field and Varane base has kept the clean sheets or conceded few goals generally, we have not exactly been smashing teams.
Take Morrison (undefeated) and Cook out of that back four and I agree that we HAVE to consider Field and JCS in a four with Dunne and Pall (Mr hot and cold).
I don't know if my considering Fox a total liability is justified, but the thought of Fox and Ashby covering the left channel for another game fears me with dread. Is it me or does Ashby have a tendency to want to come back in field on his right foot and avoid the simple pass and tries to play the high stakes ball across the front of the D which are waiting to be picked off by the opposition?
So pushing Field back in to the back 4 that leaves Varane and Morgan as the only two I trust to be in centre mid, but after that I am really struggling to think of an effective replacement for shifting Field in to the back line from the more forward role he has played in the last couple of weeks.
Neither of the two Danes could stand up in there without a Field or Colback doing the dirty work and we still have not seen enough of Dixon-Bonner to understand whether he can step in and add any grit to the midfield.
I could almost accept another loss at Norwich, if there were any positive news about even a Colback being ready to either start or come off the bench on New Year's Day so that we can stop Watford doing a repeat of the opening game last season. 3 defeats over Christmas and all the good work and positivity quickly goes south.
Nardi
Dunne JCS Field Pall
Varane
Morgan ?
Smith Chair
Frey
Can't see any positives for Sunday |  |
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| Just Back... on 14:30 - Dec 27 with 611 views | scot1963 |
Bit of a disaster all round from a personal perspective as it was a 4 1/2 hour journey there and I'd not been feeling great. The first 20 minutes of play we were looking pretty bad and a goal down and then I was violently ill and had to leave (not due to the performance but due to food poisoning). We could hear a loud celebration which I think was the second goal and then another one which was a bit quieter that we thought might have been one back for us but I think it was probably their 3rd. 4 1/2 hour journey back. Fog just about all the way - I wasn't driving - thankfully. Scariest fog I've been in was in Barnsley - couldn't see my own feet or if I was even on the pavement. |  | | |
| Just Back... on 14:36 - Dec 27 with 585 views | LazyFan |
The whole team looked like they couldn't run, and as I have said before, in the Champ, you don't run, run, run, you lose.
We sat back way too much and did not press them enough. So much so that in the first half, at 35 minutes and 3-0 down, we sat back while they played it around the back, waiting for halftime. Hello, you're LOSING!
I mean, you're 3-0 down? Time to get frantic and go all out berserker, what do you have to lose? 4-0? Does not matter if you're dead anyway. But get a goal back before half-time and make it 3-1, and then there is a small chance of a way back.
It was like watching Ainsworth's QPR against Blackburn when the whole team didn't want to cross the halfway line.
In that game, Dozzell had a breakaway on the wing, looked up, realised he was the furthest forward, and then decided to pass back as Blackburn players fretted and scrambled back for no reason as Dozy played it back anyway!
The worst players were Field, Varane and Morgan, who just sat in front of the Back four and didn't press the opposite middle at all. Free midfield reign all of the first half. All the Swansea midfield had to do was collect the ball from their defence, turn, look up, and then play another ball to a free Swansea player, and so on, until they could have a shot at goal. Kohil was totally on his own for a one-man press.
As Swansea had a free midfield pass then Fox and Paal were exposed for lack of pace, which Ronaldo took full advantage of. Fox is done, he cannot run back quick enough (remember Champ is run run run). Paal had that game where he's phoned it in. Must be hoping for his Jan move now we are so close. No need to get injured just before the move.
Paal was so bad that Saito was fully occupied the whole game supporting him and, therefore, didn't venture over the halfway line either.
On the up side, Chair has moved from 10 mins, 20 mins, 35 mins to 45 mins. So, the next is 60 mins, which means he's ready to start. I expect him to start against Norwich. Frey was back for a few mins as well. The team was so bad Ashby looked like he was decent, despite also giving the ball way quite a few times but at least he was trying to get forward and also challenging to win the ball.
This was like the Oxford half, but this time, Swansea are a proper Champ team who know what they are doing. And tore us apart. It was too easy for them.
Swanseas' tactic was clever; they decided to press us hard and attack high upfield and risk breakaways. It's a very risky tactic because if the oppo wins the ball, then you will be facing a counterattack, possibly outnumbered. This usually results in a goal if that keeps happening. They need not worry as ...
It worked as our middle decided not to compete in the middle at all and just let em have it. Cue 1-2's all over the park from a team that specialises in 1-2's. If we had challenged them in the middle, then they would have fewer balls on our left and right, and we would have gotten out and up the field as Saito and Smyth could now get forward to support Kohli. We did this a little in the second half, which is how we know it was possible.
Players let Marti down big time as they relaxed over the Christmas break. There is no relaxing in this league; it's all run, run, run. They tried to hide behind the formation of two banks of four (an old Gerry and Holloway tactic). But that only works if you run run run.
You can say it's wrong; it should be about the quality of the football, but teams will do this to you and win. I have noticed it coming into the Prem more now. This is how Villa, Forest and Bournemouth have improved up the table by introducing a lot more of this into their games now. It seems Man City's slow build-up is going out of fashion.
Swansea are not lamo Oxford, they have proper Champ players, they will tear teams apart that don't compete.
And they did. |  |
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| Just Back... on 14:42 - Dec 27 with 535 views | FDC |
| Just Back... on 14:30 - Dec 27 by scot1963 |
Bit of a disaster all round from a personal perspective as it was a 4 1/2 hour journey there and I'd not been feeling great. The first 20 minutes of play we were looking pretty bad and a goal down and then I was violently ill and had to leave (not due to the performance but due to food poisoning). We could hear a loud celebration which I think was the second goal and then another one which was a bit quieter that we thought might have been one back for us but I think it was probably their 3rd. 4 1/2 hour journey back. Fog just about all the way - I wasn't driving - thankfully. Scariest fog I've been in was in Barnsley - couldn't see my own feet or if I was even on the pavement. |
Jeez sorry to hear that, sounds grim |  | | |
| Just Back... on 14:45 - Dec 27 with 500 views | scot1963 |
| Just Back... on 14:42 - Dec 27 by FDC |
Jeez sorry to hear that, sounds grim |
oh it was - nothing I would wish on anyone - and I tried to stay the distance for the game but it wasn't happening. Taking it easy today now after I had to go into work. [Post edited 27 Dec 14:48]
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| Just Back... on 14:46 - Dec 27 with 498 views | Northernr |
| Just Back... on 14:36 - Dec 27 by LazyFan |
The whole team looked like they couldn't run, and as I have said before, in the Champ, you don't run, run, run, you lose.
We sat back way too much and did not press them enough. So much so that in the first half, at 35 minutes and 3-0 down, we sat back while they played it around the back, waiting for halftime. Hello, you're LOSING!
I mean, you're 3-0 down? Time to get frantic and go all out berserker, what do you have to lose? 4-0? Does not matter if you're dead anyway. But get a goal back before half-time and make it 3-1, and then there is a small chance of a way back.
It was like watching Ainsworth's QPR against Blackburn when the whole team didn't want to cross the halfway line.
In that game, Dozzell had a breakaway on the wing, looked up, realised he was the furthest forward, and then decided to pass back as Blackburn players fretted and scrambled back for no reason as Dozy played it back anyway!
The worst players were Field, Varane and Morgan, who just sat in front of the Back four and didn't press the opposite middle at all. Free midfield reign all of the first half. All the Swansea midfield had to do was collect the ball from their defence, turn, look up, and then play another ball to a free Swansea player, and so on, until they could have a shot at goal. Kohil was totally on his own for a one-man press.
As Swansea had a free midfield pass then Fox and Paal were exposed for lack of pace, which Ronaldo took full advantage of. Fox is done, he cannot run back quick enough (remember Champ is run run run). Paal had that game where he's phoned it in. Must be hoping for his Jan move now we are so close. No need to get injured just before the move.
Paal was so bad that Saito was fully occupied the whole game supporting him and, therefore, didn't venture over the halfway line either.
On the up side, Chair has moved from 10 mins, 20 mins, 35 mins to 45 mins. So, the next is 60 mins, which means he's ready to start. I expect him to start against Norwich. Frey was back for a few mins as well. The team was so bad Ashby looked like he was decent, despite also giving the ball way quite a few times but at least he was trying to get forward and also challenging to win the ball.
This was like the Oxford half, but this time, Swansea are a proper Champ team who know what they are doing. And tore us apart. It was too easy for them.
Swanseas' tactic was clever; they decided to press us hard and attack high upfield and risk breakaways. It's a very risky tactic because if the oppo wins the ball, then you will be facing a counterattack, possibly outnumbered. This usually results in a goal if that keeps happening. They need not worry as ...
It worked as our middle decided not to compete in the middle at all and just let em have it. Cue 1-2's all over the park from a team that specialises in 1-2's. If we had challenged them in the middle, then they would have fewer balls on our left and right, and we would have gotten out and up the field as Saito and Smyth could now get forward to support Kohli. We did this a little in the second half, which is how we know it was possible.
Players let Marti down big time as they relaxed over the Christmas break. There is no relaxing in this league; it's all run, run, run. They tried to hide behind the formation of two banks of four (an old Gerry and Holloway tactic). But that only works if you run run run.
You can say it's wrong; it should be about the quality of the football, but teams will do this to you and win. I have noticed it coming into the Prem more now. This is how Villa, Forest and Bournemouth have improved up the table by introducing a lot more of this into their games now. It seems Man City's slow build-up is going out of fashion.
Swansea are not lamo Oxford, they have proper Champ players, they will tear teams apart that don't compete.
And they did. |
Agree with almost all of that, but Saito shouldn't get a hall pass for that performance. | | | |
| Just Back... on 14:49 - Dec 27 with 473 views | Match82 |
| Just Back... on 03:57 - Dec 27 by nix |
I agree.
Marti himself doesn't like kneejerk responses, whether that's getting carried away with imminent promotion when we win or throwing in the towel when we lose.
I realise I'm prone to be overly optimistic and am trying to curb that with a bit of realism . But FFS these injuries would affect most squads in the Championship. Just look what's happened to Man City with their embarrassment of riches with just a couple of players having past their best.
We can't afford to go on another terrible run but this only one match. |
This sounds like a cop out, but I'm sure the fact we had to drag the players out of bed early and up to north Wales, the day after Christmas day when none of them wanted to leave their families, probably didn't help. Barring Plymouth, Swansea away on boxing day is probably the one fixture we didn't want.
Yes they are professionals, yes they are paid for this (very well) but mentally it only takes one or two of them to be at 90% instead of 100% and it's going to make a difference. |  | | |
| Just Back... on 14:59 - Dec 27 with 434 views | Northernr |
| Just Back... on 14:49 - Dec 27 by Match82 |
This sounds like a cop out, but I'm sure the fact we had to drag the players out of bed early and up to north Wales, the day after Christmas day when none of them wanted to leave their families, probably didn't help. Barring Plymouth, Swansea away on boxing day is probably the one fixture we didn't want.
Yes they are professionals, yes they are paid for this (very well) but mentally it only takes one or two of them to be at 90% instead of 100% and it's going to make a difference. |
just said on another thread. Our Christmas is Swansea A, Norwich A, then Watford H as an early kick off. Watford for comparison play home, home, away ten miles away. That's a fcking joke really.
We then get a week of two home games followed by Leicester A, Plymouth A and Hull A in ten days. Second time in as many seasons we've had Plymouth A and Hull A back to back Saturday-Tuesday. Again, a joke.
March - West Brom A Saturday, Boro A Tuesday, Leeds H Saturday. Throw us a fcking bone lads. | | | |
| Just Back... on 15:06 - Dec 27 with 395 views | mart_Goblin |
| Just Back... on 13:06 - Dec 27 by stainrods_elbow |
10/10 again for smug judgmentalism! Why don't you actually read my reply instead of tooting your own tedious little trumpet? |
I can’t help but read your narcissistic blinkered bile as it’s vomited across multiple threads on a regular basis .
Maybe YOU are the one who should just try listening to a different view for 1 second.
But now I’m ignoring my own advise as I’m wasting my time on even trying to have rational debate and I’m feeding the troll I’m trying to ignore .
Just listen to others for once ffs [Post edited 27 Dec 15:08]
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| Just Back... on 17:26 - Dec 27 with 193 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
| Just Back... on 11:25 - Dec 27 by gazza1 |
My question is, and I do not know the answer(s), why did so many of the players play so poor or were totally ineffective during most of the match!!!! |
I realise it’s a cop-out but form in the middle reaches of the Championship is mainly random. No rational explanation for results is required. Throw in confidence, luck, injuries, referees, managers systems, player matchups etc etc. Likely it will all be different v Norwich. The worse mistake is to have expectations. Supporting QPR is beyond explanation. My excuse is that I lived down the A40 sixty years ago. | | | |
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