| Signings & The DOF 21:41 - Oct 5 with 13518 views | 1JD |
I didn’t rate Les as a DOF, but some of the squads and business he put together look next level compared to the squad assembled this summer.
From what I am witnessing, the squad, and certain individual players who cost a lot of money, look woefully undercooked for the level.
I guess the question is, Is this a result of exclusively using data to scout players in tier 2 and tier 3 European leagues. Ie. You might look a superstar in THAT league, but does it translate to THIS league? Or do you simply stand out and look good in stats, BECAUSE the level is bang average?
The lack of ball control of some of these players, and the constant turning over of possession, let alone the complete absence of any kind of athleticism and physicality is not solved through game time in my eyes. These are basic tenets of the level. And we are nowhere near the level.
Once again, as it was under Les, especially in the earlier years, it seems we are under the leadership of a DOF “learning on the job”. I hope we sort ourselves out, but I’m now seriously concerned this is a going to be a mistake too far. [Post edited 5 Oct 22:37]
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| Signings & The DOF on 21:32 - Oct 6 with 2532 views | Northernr |
| Signings & The DOF on 20:33 - Oct 6 by mart_Goblin |
The more I think about it the more it makes sense .
The team is playing nothing like the head coach’s career MO.
And is trying to play to the MO of the CEO and his number crunchers.
A 27 year old with zero coaching experience and only relies on ‘data’ to reach decisions.
If this is what’s happening and of course i could be wrong , but if it is, it’s total footballing suicide .
It leads to so many more questions . Questions people like Clive are not allowed to ask MC himself. |
Like I say the very, very obvious first question when they won't put the manager up at the fans forum, won't give him to the podcasts (they've all asked, several times), won't give him to me is... why, what are you afraid he's going to say? |  | | |
| Signings & The DOF on 21:42 - Oct 6 with 2476 views | Gus_iom |
| Signings & The DOF on 21:32 - Oct 6 by Northernr |
Like I say the very, very obvious first question when they won't put the manager up at the fans forum, won't give him to the podcasts (they've all asked, several times), won't give him to me is... why, what are you afraid he's going to say? |
'Kin hell.
Every silver lining is quickly obliterated by a huge, dark cloud. | | | |
| Signings & The DOF on 21:52 - Oct 6 with 2417 views | wombat |
| Signings & The DOF on 21:32 - Oct 6 by Northernr |
Like I say the very, very obvious first question when they won't put the manager up at the fans forum, won't give him to the podcasts (they've all asked, several times), won't give him to me is... why, what are you afraid he's going to say? |
Something along the lines of well I never wanted etc etc etc is my guess . |  |
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| Signings & The DOF on 22:27 - Oct 6 with 2295 views | Northernr |
| Signings & The DOF on 21:52 - Oct 6 by wombat |
Something along the lines of well I never wanted etc etc etc is my guess . |
If this does all go to sht it'll be interesting to watch how much blame they try and shift back Cifuentes' way having spent the last six months trying to downplay his input/influence/importance.
By interesting I mean heart-breaking obviously, but still.
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| Signings & The DOF on 22:31 - Oct 6 with 2269 views | Rangersw12 |
| Signings & The DOF on 22:27 - Oct 6 by Northernr |
If this does all go to sht it'll be interesting to watch how much blame they try and shift back Cifuentes' way having spent the last six months trying to downplay his input/influence/importance.
By interesting I mean heart-breaking obviously, but still.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
That's what I'm worried about and it could be the final nail in the coffin , with me taking a step back from spending a small fortune following this club around the country | | | |
| Signings & The DOF on 22:33 - Oct 6 with 2249 views | numptydumpty |
| Signings & The DOF on 12:21 - Oct 6 by QPunkR |
My point was more the other way round, that it feels to me that if Marti were Martin Sixfields or something would be escape with so little blame from them fans.
I'm definitely not trying to claim that Ainsworth was a good manager for us, I'm not that sadistic!
Also not saying anything about Les' ability or lack as DOF, was just referring to the personal and racist attacks he received which for me were 'beyond the pale' |
The abuse of Les was dreadful
A few evil Les quotes on here too
The bloke tried his nuts off and you could tell like Ainsworth he would have given everything to be successful and it's tough to bow out.
Was a top top player at the club and was far from dreadful as a DoF. A nearly man but he was not brought onto the pitch when we had the legends of that 90s team appear in one game.
He was getting all sorts thrown at him at the time but the club owe him one after that fiasco !!
Marti I think has credit in the bank. Last season was outstanding to be fair. The turn around was immense so has credit from this.
I get your point re he sounds like a Pep or an Arteta or even a Maresca.
Trendy to be of Latin heritage as a manager today !!! [Post edited 6 Oct 22:36]
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| Signings & The DOF on 22:48 - Oct 6 with 2208 views | Ned_Kennedys |
So the ITKs are pretty much claiming it’s Nourry signing all the players, enforcing the tactics and picking the team.
And poor old Cifuentes is unable to do his job as he has no control over anything and can’t implement his style as none of the players are his.
Which begs the obvious question as to why is he still here and why did he sign a new contract under such terrible conditions? Nourry has been here since January…..
I thought the bloke was an ambitious manager and probably saw QPR as a first step in English football ahead of a Premier League job. Instead according to some he’s prepared to sacrifice his integrity and principles by working with both hands tied behind his back as QPR struggle at the bottom. He will soon get sacked by the young power mad dictator and won’t get another decent English job: is that a good career move for him?
Something doesn’t add up…… |  | | |
| Signings & The DOF on 23:07 - Oct 6 with 2162 views | 1JD |
| Signings & The DOF on 22:48 - Oct 6 by Ned_Kennedys |
So the ITKs are pretty much claiming it’s Nourry signing all the players, enforcing the tactics and picking the team.
And poor old Cifuentes is unable to do his job as he has no control over anything and can’t implement his style as none of the players are his.
Which begs the obvious question as to why is he still here and why did he sign a new contract under such terrible conditions? Nourry has been here since January…..
I thought the bloke was an ambitious manager and probably saw QPR as a first step in English football ahead of a Premier League job. Instead according to some he’s prepared to sacrifice his integrity and principles by working with both hands tied behind his back as QPR struggle at the bottom. He will soon get sacked by the young power mad dictator and won’t get another decent English job: is that a good career move for him?
Something doesn’t add up…… |
Why he is still here you ask? Well, it’s no different to the rest of the working world. Employees are often not fully aligned with their boss for one reason or another. You might not like your boss, but you stay for the pay check and CV building. You eventually leave when it gets too much, or you get a better offer. And nobody, nobody said the relationship is at breaking point. So it’s nowhere near as black and white as you are insisting on making out. | | | |
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| Signings & The DOF on 23:44 - Oct 6 with 2074 views | FredManRave |
| Signings & The DOF on 21:42 - Oct 6 by Gus_iom |
'Kin hell.
Every silver lining is quickly obliterated by a huge, dark cloud. |
The sky is defintely not blue at the moment! |  |
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| Signings & The DOF on 03:04 - Oct 7 with 1918 views | PlanetHonneywood |
I guess MC's coded, and admittedly nuclear response to questions about why you signed player X, would come if he answered, 'You need to speak to Nourry about talent acquisition!'
Not sure he has built any media contacts here or if there are any media outlets reporting and/or interested in QPR any more, but we know some managers are and have been very adept at getting stories out.
Be interesting if any reports were done about how he's doing from Scandinavia! |  |
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| Signings & The DOF on 05:50 - Oct 7 with 1838 views | ozexile |
Can we not just have 1 season to relax and actually enjoy following this mad house.
I thought this was that season, how wrong. | | | |
| Signings & The DOF on 07:26 - Oct 7 with 1743 views | Headington |
V. Interesting but depressing thread. Hypothetically, if Marti was to switch to his favoured 4-3-3 what would that look like? Do we currently have the midfield to do that? Front three of Celar-Dembele-Saito with Chair deeper? As others have said, not sure we currently have the midfield or the full-backs for it to work.
Marti showed a lot of pragmatism last year (moving Dunne to right-back and tightening up at set pieces). I guess we will have to rely on more of that. Disappointing as I'd hoped after last year we would see more of Marti's style. | | | |
| Signings & The DOF on 07:48 - Oct 7 with 1703 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
Sorry but Marti is the ultimate cuck if he's letting Richie Rich's laptop sign all the players, choose the formation and select the team. He's the one who appears accountable for the crap we've been playing, so if it isn't actually down to him, then he's damaging his reputation unnecessarily. | | | |
| Signings & The DOF on 08:49 - Oct 7 with 1550 views | mart_Goblin |
| Signings & The DOF on 07:48 - Oct 7 by Wegerles_Stairs |
Sorry but Marti is the ultimate cuck if he's letting Richie Rich's laptop sign all the players, choose the formation and select the team. He's the one who appears accountable for the crap we've been playing, so if it isn't actually down to him, then he's damaging his reputation unnecessarily. |
Completely agree |  | | |
| Signings & The DOF on 08:58 - Oct 7 with 1521 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Hopefully, it's not that Nourry is picking the team or anything like that. I don't think anyone has alleged that?
I could imagine that Nourry is in charge of signings, and that Cifuentes is charged with getting performances from them, that's the Continental European model for forty years and more.
I think that most of the players do fit the Cryuffian model that Cifuentes talks about, though. Most.
Saito perfectly capable of playing as a wide attacker.
Dembele perfectly capable too, though maybe not as a Cryuffian 10.
Morrison a typical ball-playing centre-back.
Nardi the typical Cryuffian goalkeeper.
Santos - mobile right-back. Fits the bill.
Frey - not sure he fits the model.
Celar - not sure yet.
Which only leaves midfield:
Andersen - played the Cryuffian 10 role ok last year.
Madsen - has the skillset and is well capable of playing at 8 or 10.
Varane - has the skillset and is well capable of playing the 6/pivot.
The two problems I see with our team right now, and we've talked about both of them a lot, are that no-one in Cifuentes' midfield shows for the ball enough and that our lines are too far apart.
The first was a problem even before the summer. In Cifuentes' time we've had Field, Hayden, Dozzell, Colback, Dixon-Bonner, Andersen, Madsen and Varane all play midfield and none of them want the ball enough, and a lot of them make it obvious by pointing elsewhere and by hiding behind opposition players. We talked about it again on the match threads on the pre-season games in Catalunya, and it's an issue that has gone on so long now that we can surely ask whether it's by Cifuentes' design. If so, it has nothing to do with recruitment. If not, why is he allowing players to hide? Or are they just so incapable of the task that's it impossible to get them to do it? Is Varane?
The second problem of the lines being too far apart is surely nothing to do with recruitment. That's a training ground job, surely.
I'm deeply, deeply suspicious of Nourry, and I think his recent Fans' Forum was idiotic, insulting, deceitful or a mixture of those things. He has no experience in this job and is showing signs of it. I am deeply suspicious of the owners and have very good reason to be. I like Cifuentes.
But I would also be very wary of lurching too far from port to starboard. I would be very wary of now deciding that all of our ails on the pitch are down to Nourry alone. Some of them are down to coaching, and some of them are down to the players. |  |
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| Signings & The DOF on 09:08 - Oct 7 with 1489 views | daveB |
| Signings & The DOF on 07:48 - Oct 7 by Wegerles_Stairs |
Sorry but Marti is the ultimate cuck if he's letting Richie Rich's laptop sign all the players, choose the formation and select the team. He's the one who appears accountable for the crap we've been playing, so if it isn't actually down to him, then he's damaging his reputation unnecessarily. |
I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting Nourry is picking the team or formation but he's made it clear that he's heavily involved in signing the players and it's all data driven. That doesn't have to be a bad thing but you do need players that fit the managers style otherwise it will go wrong |  | | |
| Signings & The DOF on 09:20 - Oct 7 with 1452 views | Headington |
After reading Brian's last post about the squad I feel a little more optimistic! Can we now switch to 4-3-3 then?
(Not sure about Santos as a championship right-back in any formation, though he looks better going forward). | | | |
| Signings & The DOF on 09:46 - Oct 7 with 1367 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Signings & The DOF on 23:07 - Oct 6 by 1JD |
Why he is still here you ask? Well, it’s no different to the rest of the working world. Employees are often not fully aligned with their boss for one reason or another. You might not like your boss, but you stay for the pay check and CV building. You eventually leave when it gets too much, or you get a better offer. And nobody, nobody said the relationship is at breaking point. So it’s nowhere near as black and white as you are insisting on making out. |
Come on: football management is VERY different to almost all other jobs.
Your performance and results are plastered all over MSM and dissected in detail on social media and your reputation and career are defined that way.
If you are ambitious your CV is very important and you are always looking for the next career move.
A decent manager can always move on if he feels he has taken his current club as far as he can or he’s not getting the support he wants.
However one poor season can ruin that upward trajectory and stall a career.
Cifuentes more than most of his contemporaries has shown a willingness to move on from club to club and relocate abroad for the benefit of his career. If he left QPR now he’d find plenty of suitors.
Less so if he’s sacked with the team in the bottom three. So again IF he has so little control of his destiny at QPR with Nourry pulling all the strings then WHY would he sign a new contract and stay?
He could earn QPR money elsewhere and it’s ruining his CV, not building it at the moment.
I would suggest Cifuentes has a lot more involvement in the signing of players than you insinuate.
Also your claim he has been publicly stating he doesn’t want Paal in the squad and wanted him sold needs backing up otherwise it’s just whispering ITK nonsense I’m afraid. | | | |
| Signings & The DOF on 09:56 - Oct 7 with 1354 views | 1JD |
| Signings & The DOF on 09:46 - Oct 7 by Ned_Kennedys |
Come on: football management is VERY different to almost all other jobs.
Your performance and results are plastered all over MSM and dissected in detail on social media and your reputation and career are defined that way.
If you are ambitious your CV is very important and you are always looking for the next career move.
A decent manager can always move on if he feels he has taken his current club as far as he can or he’s not getting the support he wants.
However one poor season can ruin that upward trajectory and stall a career.
Cifuentes more than most of his contemporaries has shown a willingness to move on from club to club and relocate abroad for the benefit of his career. If he left QPR now he’d find plenty of suitors.
Less so if he’s sacked with the team in the bottom three. So again IF he has so little control of his destiny at QPR with Nourry pulling all the strings then WHY would he sign a new contract and stay?
He could earn QPR money elsewhere and it’s ruining his CV, not building it at the moment.
I would suggest Cifuentes has a lot more involvement in the signing of players than you insinuate.
Also your claim he has been publicly stating he doesn’t want Paal in the squad and wanted him sold needs backing up otherwise it’s just whispering ITK nonsense I’m afraid. |
Never said anything about Paal, not me. You can’t just rock from job to job and it not be recognised as a trend. Soon it becomes a negative. Same goes for any walk of life. And as I repeat, nobody said the relationship is at breaking point. | | | |
| Signings & The DOF on 09:59 - Oct 7 with 1336 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Signings & The DOF on 09:08 - Oct 7 by daveB |
I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting Nourry is picking the team or formation but he's made it clear that he's heavily involved in signing the players and it's all data driven. That doesn't have to be a bad thing but you do need players that fit the managers style otherwise it will go wrong |
It's actually what we've clambered for on the whole for some time... The opposite to 'what the manager wants, the manager gets' that leaves you with Leon Balogun playing for Gareth Ainsworth 6 months later.
Without wanting to witch hunt though, as I'm sure the data-driven approach to recruitment has a lot of nuance... The one constant in that approach to recruitment has been Andy Belk and his model appears to have identified the likes of Ariel Borysiuk, Yeni Ngbakoto, Pawel Wszolek, David Wheeler, Idrissa Sylla, Seb Polter, George Thomas, Toni Leistner, Andre Dozzell, Charlie Kelman, Taylor Richards, Ziyad Larkeche, Reggie Cannon and now Varane, Madsen and Celar.
At what point do you chalk this up to the right idea but poor execution? We're getting even further into bed with this model, even going so far as to completely build our strategy around it? If so, our ability to identify good investments that offer a good product and a financial return is completely paramount.
In fairness it's also presumably brought us Dickie, Dembele, Chery, BOS, Willock, Field, Paal and Nardi but that strike rate, along with quite how wide some of the misses on that list were is very worrying.
If we'd have handed over the keys to Belk 4/5 years ago and not signed the gap-filling - presumably manager-led - signings such as Barbet, Begovic, Andersen, Colback, Cook, Johansen, Austin etc. not to mention the Eze and Chair lightning strikes we surely would have been relegated by now. |  | | |
| Signings & The DOF on 10:05 - Oct 7 with 1309 views | wombat |
| Signings & The DOF on 22:27 - Oct 6 by Northernr |
If this does all go to sht it'll be interesting to watch how much blame they try and shift back Cifuentes' way having spent the last six months trying to downplay his input/influence/importance.
By interesting I mean heart-breaking obviously, but still.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
at the moment I honestly dont see any other outcome, to flood the team/ squad with players who dont know the championship was always a risky game , a cpule yes but not the whole team , its a recipe for madness even by our usual high standard of being able to find a new way of fecking things up.if its true te club wont sign any players above the age of 25 we are in proper trouble . its needs a hadyn even a livermore and maybe a few others in jan | |
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| Signings & The DOF on 10:09 - Oct 7 with 1296 views | wombat |
| Signings & The DOF on 07:48 - Oct 7 by Wegerles_Stairs |
Sorry but Marti is the ultimate cuck if he's letting Richie Rich's laptop sign all the players, choose the formation and select the team. He's the one who appears accountable for the crap we've been playing, so if it isn't actually down to him, then he's damaging his reputation unnecessarily. |
thats how this role works though , i dont see he has any choice in the matter , he says which type of player he wants and they crack open champioship manager and off they go , here you go marti this guy might be a half decent player in 3 years time , one issue is his weath wont be that much as we have dropped down a league in that time , sorry maybe the next one will work out better | |
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| Signings & The DOF on 10:13 - Oct 7 with 1253 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Signings & The DOF on 08:58 - Oct 7 by BrianMcCarthy |
Hopefully, it's not that Nourry is picking the team or anything like that. I don't think anyone has alleged that?
I could imagine that Nourry is in charge of signings, and that Cifuentes is charged with getting performances from them, that's the Continental European model for forty years and more.
I think that most of the players do fit the Cryuffian model that Cifuentes talks about, though. Most.
Saito perfectly capable of playing as a wide attacker.
Dembele perfectly capable too, though maybe not as a Cryuffian 10.
Morrison a typical ball-playing centre-back.
Nardi the typical Cryuffian goalkeeper.
Santos - mobile right-back. Fits the bill.
Frey - not sure he fits the model.
Celar - not sure yet.
Which only leaves midfield:
Andersen - played the Cryuffian 10 role ok last year.
Madsen - has the skillset and is well capable of playing at 8 or 10.
Varane - has the skillset and is well capable of playing the 6/pivot.
The two problems I see with our team right now, and we've talked about both of them a lot, are that no-one in Cifuentes' midfield shows for the ball enough and that our lines are too far apart.
The first was a problem even before the summer. In Cifuentes' time we've had Field, Hayden, Dozzell, Colback, Dixon-Bonner, Andersen, Madsen and Varane all play midfield and none of them want the ball enough, and a lot of them make it obvious by pointing elsewhere and by hiding behind opposition players. We talked about it again on the match threads on the pre-season games in Catalunya, and it's an issue that has gone on so long now that we can surely ask whether it's by Cifuentes' design. If so, it has nothing to do with recruitment. If not, why is he allowing players to hide? Or are they just so incapable of the task that's it impossible to get them to do it? Is Varane?
The second problem of the lines being too far apart is surely nothing to do with recruitment. That's a training ground job, surely.
I'm deeply, deeply suspicious of Nourry, and I think his recent Fans' Forum was idiotic, insulting, deceitful or a mixture of those things. He has no experience in this job and is showing signs of it. I am deeply suspicious of the owners and have very good reason to be. I like Cifuentes.
But I would also be very wary of lurching too far from port to starboard. I would be very wary of now deciding that all of our ails on the pitch are down to Nourry alone. Some of them are down to coaching, and some of them are down to the players. |
Interested to know why you're as hostile to Nourry as you appear - what's your evidence for all his failings? The FF did feel very stage-managed, though.
In the meantime, re your reference to the 'Cryuffian' (sic) system as a 'dance for space' (lovely image for football in any system), this piece is an engaging read:
https://www.graceonfootball.com/p/bring-back-old-fashioned-wingers
Would love to hear any more tactically literate posters pitch in. |  |
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| Signings & The DOF on 11:01 - Oct 7 with 1146 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Signings & The DOF on 10:13 - Oct 7 by stainrods_elbow |
Interested to know why you're as hostile to Nourry as you appear - what's your evidence for all his failings? The FF did feel very stage-managed, though.
In the meantime, re your reference to the 'Cryuffian' (sic) system as a 'dance for space' (lovely image for football in any system), this piece is an engaging read:
https://www.graceonfootball.com/p/bring-back-old-fashioned-wingers
Would love to hear any more tactically literate posters pitch in. |
I'm not hostile to Nourry, and it's too early to know whether he'll fail or not. I am wary, though. He has no experience. None.
Thanks for the article, I like that phrase 'dance for space'. I didn't use it, but I will! | |
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| Signings & The DOF on 11:32 - Oct 7 with 1040 views | Hayesender |
| Signings & The DOF on 17:19 - Oct 6 by Northernr |
Is Cifuentes in charge of how we’re setting up though? Nourry has been v, v, v keen to paint him as simply a head coach, with the “game model” handed down from on high for the coaches of the first team, development side, academy and even the women’s team to implement. It’s one of the reasons they won’t let us speak to him. |
Now I'm not saying you're right or wrong, as like the vast majority of us I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, but I'd be very surprised if that was the case he would have signed that new contract!
Edit; just read your reply further up the board regarding the new contract [Post edited 7 Oct 11:46]
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