| Marti got that one wrong 22:43 - Feb 14 with 10945 views | FDC |
Big fan of Marti, think the slender hope of staying up is largely down to him and the changes he's made.
But he got that wrong, didn't he? Looked like he set up to attack with pace on the break, using sinclair supported by three nippy little guys behind him.
It didn't really work, because of a combination of poor long ball distribution out of defence, sinclair poor decision making (offsides and poor attempts at buying free kicks), and EFL secret meeting agreeing to never award armstrong a decision.
You can see the thinking behind it, but looked a doomed plan from midway through first half.
Second half we were always going to be camping out trying to break them down, and felt like the subs that came would have been useful from half time. But he didn't change it up until 70 or so mins, and although Frey, Andersen, Willock felt like the correct subs, by that point we were really chasing the game it became madcap and disjointed
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| Marti got that one wrong on 16:19 - Feb 15 with 1963 views | daveB |
| Marti got that one wrong on 16:00 - Feb 15 by Harbour |
Is the downing of tools down to three game weeks. Time and time again we see bad runs coincide with three game weeks. No excuses the players should be fit and be able to perform consistently three times a week. The other consistent bad performance is when we have a critical game …Huddersfield Plymouth Stoke as soon as a sniff of getting out of the bottom 3 the players produce a shit performance. |
I don't think they downed tools but you are right these 3 games week seem to kill us for some reason, we were just very lacklusture throughout.
What summed it up for me was when the board went up 1 minute injury time, we'd done OK not good but OK first half never in any real trouble apart from a few set pieces so just see the minute out, switch on and give away nothing. Instead we gave them 2 corners and left a man unmarked 5 yards out to tap home. Those small details matter massively and Stoke then had something to hold onto and never really looked in any danger again |  | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 16:25 - Feb 15 with 1954 views | rbee |
| Marti got that one wrong on 15:28 - Feb 15 by Northernr |
You've actually pre-empted my theme for the match preview - what is it about the environment and culture at QPR that sets players up to fail? We've got Dozzell scoring winners for Birmingham, and Dickie on the verge of getting POTY at Bristol City... |
You know there has been a shift in culture at QPR in recent years if you look at the club as a whole.
QPR were always a well loved club, loan player after loan player would express a desire to stay. People always had good things to say about us. Not any more.
The club employed good people, QPR people and now it seems there are none. I am talking about the Steve Gallens, the Sheila Marstons those QPR people that had been at the club for a long time.
Paladini started moving them out and Fernandes and Co carried on. Are there any such characters around the club any more? |  | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 16:26 - Feb 15 with 1953 views | TK1 |
| Marti got that one wrong on 15:28 - Feb 15 by Northernr |
You've actually pre-empted my theme for the match preview - what is it about the environment and culture at QPR that sets players up to fail? We've got Dozzell scoring winners for Birmingham, and Dickie on the verge of getting POTY at Bristol City... |
Definitely not down to the manger nor even, truthfully, the players seeing as they are almost entirely different to a year ago (and by and large, more likeable). It's the club. It's the culture. I would love to know who travelled to Stoke in an official capacity on Valentine's night from the club. Anyone?
Media guy was there. Andy Sinton. Anyone else? I wonder. You know who would have been there? Chris Ramsey and Les Ferdinand, no matter what. And yes, towards the end of Warbs, the players collapsed mentally. That happens with pressure. But before Ainsworth, before LF was sidelined, the culture was good. We moaned about them settling for midtable, which was higher than the budget.
There was pride in the squad, evidently, increasingly so, from 2015 until 2021ish. Culture was fine under a DOF who took pride in it. I wonder who represents the club now away from home (or at home!), who puts pressure on players? Who's in the director's box at Stoke, sees the players after they lose the most obvious 0-0 of all time 1-0? |  | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 18:30 - Feb 15 with 1797 views | traininvain |
I find it genuinely mental that people on here are still looking at this group of players and saying ‘well maybe if Chair was dropped last night we’d have won’ or ‘Dunne and Dykes would’ve stopped us conceding from that set piece and won us the game’.
It’d be funny if it wasn’t a pre-cursor for the next step in this journey which is basically ‘the manager is the problem let’s replace him’.
I can cope with us getting relegated and I’ve been fully expecting this outcome for months. But it’s depressing that some of our supporters still think the manager is to blame following two years of this squad losing pretty much every week. |  | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 18:32 - Feb 15 with 1785 views | traininvain |
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| Marti got that one wrong on 18:45 - Feb 15 with 1751 views | baz_qpr |
Now I have to confess I only saw the 2nd half and the goal after the game but a few observations.
1. As Marti says in his interview you have to give credit to Stoke, they surprised us with a deep back 5 low block which negated our pace. Ultimately we had the wrong players on the pitch, maybe he could have changed it earlier and changed shape but we had no answer to it.
2. The set piece at the end of the half in 2nd game in 5 days with a really bad mistake from from one of the older players in the team. Not for the first time, fitness is an issue here in my view
3. We have to change our set piece takers what we are doing is not working we are 3 for against 14 that has to be worth 6-9 points if not more. I dont care if it pisses some players off they have to be accountable just as much in attacking as defending |  | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 19:02 - Feb 15 with 1709 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Marti got that one wrong on 18:30 - Feb 15 by traininvain |
I find it genuinely mental that people on here are still looking at this group of players and saying ‘well maybe if Chair was dropped last night we’d have won’ or ‘Dunne and Dykes would’ve stopped us conceding from that set piece and won us the game’.
It’d be funny if it wasn’t a pre-cursor for the next step in this journey which is basically ‘the manager is the problem let’s replace him’.
I can cope with us getting relegated and I’ve been fully expecting this outcome for months. But it’s depressing that some of our supporters still think the manager is to blame following two years of this squad losing pretty much every week. |
Why does it have to be the manager’s fault OR the players’ fault?
Last night both of them had stinkers. |  | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 19:44 - Feb 15 with 1623 views | traininvain |
| Marti got that one wrong on 19:02 - Feb 15 by Ned_Kennedys |
Why does it have to be the manager’s fault OR the players’ fault?
Last night both of them had stinkers. |
I’ll give you a clue as you seem to be struggling- the players who’ve phoned it in for the best part of two years under five different managers and have us staring down the barrel of relegation for the second season in succession.
Or the manager who joined in November off the back of probably our worst start in this league but has somehow managed to galvanise this sh1thouse group of footballers and somehow put them back in touching distance of safety.
Maybe Cifuentes had a stinker last night but if you think he’s a bigger problem than the squad at his disposal (the ones who’ve been losing since 2022) then good luck to you. [Post edited 15 Feb 19:45]
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| Marti got that one wrong on 20:16 - Feb 15 with 1543 views | TK1 |
| Marti got that one wrong on 19:44 - Feb 15 by traininvain |
I’ll give you a clue as you seem to be struggling- the players who’ve phoned it in for the best part of two years under five different managers and have us staring down the barrel of relegation for the second season in succession.
Or the manager who joined in November off the back of probably our worst start in this league but has somehow managed to galvanise this sh1thouse group of footballers and somehow put them back in touching distance of safety.
Maybe Cifuentes had a stinker last night but if you think he’s a bigger problem than the squad at his disposal (the ones who’ve been losing since 2022) then good luck to you. [Post edited 15 Feb 19:45]
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Marti is a really good manager and we're actually in a decent run of form, which is evidence of him being a good manager.
One defeat in five, two wins, two draws: only Huddersfield and Plymouth in the bottom ten clubs can match that, none can beat it. Ainsworth was a really bad QPR manager which is why we are so behind our current form.
Last night was a 0-0 in Stoke that we turned into a 1-0 defeat because we are sometimes still hopeless at corners - evidence that Marti has work to do still.
But the one thing that is also true is that these are not the same players "who've been losing since 2022". They are just not! I keep seeing it repeated on here and it's nonsense.
They're not even the same players who lost 0-3 at home Sunderland on Valentines day in 2023: only Paal and Chair started last night who started that night. Field played the game then too, and came on very late last night. Dixon-Bonner: unused sub both nights. Otherwise entirely different squads, coaching teams. The lot.
It's not the manager now. It's not really the players. The manager is decent, the squad is generally working fairly above its level. It was a bad night.
But the club has a big culture issue. All of the clubs in the bottom ten up to (but not including) Plymouth have that in common.
Players and management need continued support. They can get out of this. They have put in more good shifts since Marti arrived than bad. The people above him...well, who are they? Does the "chairman" go to games? Was the CEO there last night? Any board members? Genuine question. | | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 20:18 - Feb 15 with 1531 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Excellent post, TK1.
Lots to think about there. |  |
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| Marti got that one wrong on 20:34 - Feb 15 with 1466 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:06 - Feb 15 by Northernr |
Once again I feel it my duty to tell you there isn't a winning team here for want of a manager picking it in a slightly different formation, shape, system etc. |
That's an opinion, Northern, so you don't have to come across so pompous! (Call me a pot calling the kettle black if it makes you feel better!)
In terms of my 'duty' (or compulsion) to report it as I see it, it's pretty unarguable (i) the playing squad has changed/is evolving significantly since Boil, Critchley and Gareth were here, and (ii) there have been notable improvements in a number of performances, e.g. in defence, where (set pieces aside), we've become quite parsimonious. The incoming players look promising, and Armstrong, if hardly free-scoring, is gradually improving. Yet still we have people here letting off hot air about the rotten culture as if we'd been stuck with the same 16 for 2-3 years, or as if, in some odd metaphysical way, the culture were somehow separable from the players/management. It's like Gary Neville pretending that the infrastructure/ownership at Manure are more responsible than the players and Ten Hag together for the product on the pitch - something the otherwise annoying/noxious Jamie Carragher had to put him right on. To be clear, that doesn't mean I don't think there are aspects of the whole club culture that need to be overhauled, and, for me (bears also shit in the woods), Hoos leaving the building and a new CEO is a step in the right direction,
Meanwhile, on the ground, last night was abject, and Cifuentes' response in his interview was scarily inadequate for me, considering his job is to set up the side properly - he sounded worryingly phlegmatic rather than embarrassed or raging - but these players have shown, albeit infrequently and inconsistently, that they CAN perform, as they did in recent weeks vs Norwich, Millwall, Blackburn and Bournemouth. It is absolutely absurd to give this manager - or any manager - some kind of weird free pass by getting all fundamentalist about how the players are irredeemable. That's now what football's like, and it's not even what QPR are (always) like. I think it's more likely than not we'll now nick a win at Brizzle.
Am I worried? Of course! Do I think we'll stay up? I still think we will (just)! [Post edited 15 Feb 20:42]
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| Marti got that one wrong on 20:37 - Feb 15 with 1479 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Marti got that one wrong on 19:44 - Feb 15 by traininvain |
I’ll give you a clue as you seem to be struggling- the players who’ve phoned it in for the best part of two years under five different managers and have us staring down the barrel of relegation for the second season in succession.
Or the manager who joined in November off the back of probably our worst start in this league but has somehow managed to galvanise this sh1thouse group of footballers and somehow put them back in touching distance of safety.
Maybe Cifuentes had a stinker last night but if you think he’s a bigger problem than the squad at his disposal (the ones who’ve been losing since 2022) then good luck to you. [Post edited 15 Feb 19:45]
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You are struggling to understand my post so let me help you out.
BOTH the players and manager bear some responsibility for last night.
And most of the players who were on the pitch last night have only been here this season or a few weeks so good for you if you think they should be held responsible for results from 2022 then you are a bit confused. | | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 21:05 - Feb 15 with 1410 views | Hunterhoop |
Everyone seems to be ignoring the obvious. Perhaps the few players who are regular starters, who have been here for the period of decline are the cultural problem? They are likely to have a big influence in the dressing room, more so than the newer players, some might be “untouchable”, and perhaps they are a big part of the culture problem…Not all, but people can reach their own conclusions. There must be reasons no one has come in for them. |  | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 21:08 - Feb 15 with 1381 views | mart_Goblin |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:48 - Feb 15 by Northernr |
Why is that his fault and not theirs? These players have been letting you down consistently for two years. Would it all have been ok if only Warbs, Beale, Critchley, Ainsworth and Cifuentes could have got them fired up a bit more?
I feel sorry for him. They play ok for three or four games. We get a system that seems to suit. We put some results on the board. He picks basically the team last night I think the majority of fans would pick. If they played as they played against Norwich they'd have won. And they phone that in. How do you manage that? |
Absolutely nail on head .
Marti isn’t beyond criticism. I think it was pretty evident that we had the 7 dwarves out there last night against the land of the giants. We were losing the battle physically in midfield and at set pieces and I think Marti could have and should have got some of our more physical players on the pitch earlier especially as the patterns of nice football from Saturday just weren’t happening .
But this notion that players can’t get themselves motivated and it requires the coach to do it for them is utter horseshit. The body language from players like Chair last night was pretty disgraceful from the first whistle and I think Chair has been one of the few who have fought and battled and cared until now .
No way did MC send them out to not play in the pattens they have been training hard at for weeks . Maybe Stoke were good at stopping those patterns and in which case MC has to be quicker to go to plan B . But those players last night looked alien to football in general all over the pitch .
You can’t legislate for some of the crazy things this lot do week to week . |  | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 21:14 - Feb 15 with 1373 views | daveB |
| Marti got that one wrong on 21:05 - Feb 15 by Hunterhoop |
Everyone seems to be ignoring the obvious. Perhaps the few players who are regular starters, who have been here for the period of decline are the cultural problem? They are likely to have a big influence in the dressing room, more so than the newer players, some might be “untouchable”, and perhaps they are a big part of the culture problem…Not all, but people can reach their own conclusions. There must be reasons no one has come in for them. |
They've also been part of winning teams before but do think if you stay somewhere too long sometimes you can become part of the problem
Most of the team last night bar Chair have been here less than 18 months, fair chunk arrived this season | | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 22:13 - Feb 15 with 1312 views | Northernr |
| Marti got that one wrong on 20:34 - Feb 15 by stainrods_elbow |
That's an opinion, Northern, so you don't have to come across so pompous! (Call me a pot calling the kettle black if it makes you feel better!)
In terms of my 'duty' (or compulsion) to report it as I see it, it's pretty unarguable (i) the playing squad has changed/is evolving significantly since Boil, Critchley and Gareth were here, and (ii) there have been notable improvements in a number of performances, e.g. in defence, where (set pieces aside), we've become quite parsimonious. The incoming players look promising, and Armstrong, if hardly free-scoring, is gradually improving. Yet still we have people here letting off hot air about the rotten culture as if we'd been stuck with the same 16 for 2-3 years, or as if, in some odd metaphysical way, the culture were somehow separable from the players/management. It's like Gary Neville pretending that the infrastructure/ownership at Manure are more responsible than the players and Ten Hag together for the product on the pitch - something the otherwise annoying/noxious Jamie Carragher had to put him right on. To be clear, that doesn't mean I don't think there are aspects of the whole club culture that need to be overhauled, and, for me (bears also shit in the woods), Hoos leaving the building and a new CEO is a step in the right direction,
Meanwhile, on the ground, last night was abject, and Cifuentes' response in his interview was scarily inadequate for me, considering his job is to set up the side properly - he sounded worryingly phlegmatic rather than embarrassed or raging - but these players have shown, albeit infrequently and inconsistently, that they CAN perform, as they did in recent weeks vs Norwich, Millwall, Blackburn and Bournemouth. It is absolutely absurd to give this manager - or any manager - some kind of weird free pass by getting all fundamentalist about how the players are irredeemable. That's now what football's like, and it's not even what QPR are (always) like. I think it's more likely than not we'll now nick a win at Brizzle.
Am I worried? Of course! Do I think we'll stay up? I still think we will (just)! [Post edited 15 Feb 20:42]
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Yeh, I'll take a lot of things from you, but being called 'pompous' isn't one of them. |  | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 22:40 - Feb 15 with 1243 views | Lblock |
| Marti got that one wrong on 15:28 - Feb 15 by Northernr |
You've actually pre-empted my theme for the match preview - what is it about the environment and culture at QPR that sets players up to fail? We've got Dozzell scoring winners for Birmingham, and Dickie on the verge of getting POTY at Bristol City... |
You know what it is as you've said it many time.
Standards.
There are none.
Sorry for being a parrot but it comes back to Bungle.
The man was, is and always will be clueless and his approach when at the helm was brash, unhinged, clueless and at best "throw cash at it" driven.
It was bad enough when he was about looking for limelight, then one of his planes crashed and he went remote and it got even worse.
QPR has a reputation in the game where you can "take the piss" and you'll be able to hold out for a good contract as those issuing them are knobs.
Exhibit A at the moment is our friend Taylor Richards but he's the tip of an iceberg -- you wont change everything by bombing him out.
Hopefully Marti will have learned lots about the club and the Division come May.
Even bigger hope is he sticks around to rip the place up with the young Gordon Gecko at this level or, more likely , the one below. I doubt he will but we'll see.
If not then who knows where we'll end up... Hanwell Town have a decent bar though |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Marti got that one wrong on 00:19 - Feb 16 with 1129 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Marti got that one wrong on 22:13 - Feb 15 by Northernr |
Yeh, I'll take a lot of things from you, but being called 'pompous' isn't one of them. |
We can all be pompous, and we can all be humble. Obviously.
In the meantime, let's try to stick to the arguments in the meantime, which is what I come to this board for, not the tedious ad hominem nonsense from people who haven't a clue who I am. We all care about QPR and we all have (sometimes fierce) opinions. If the team brought the passion onto the pitch that we do onto the board more of the time, we'd be looking up. Sadly, the team doesn't deserve us. | |
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| Marti got that one wrong on 00:27 - Feb 16 with 1134 views | rbee |
Fortunately it's all about the club and not the team. | | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 00:44 - Feb 16 with 1125 views | Benny_the_Ball |
I like Marti and have been suitably impressed with his work to date. However, I must say that I agree with the OP; last night he got it wrong.
Firstly, unlike previous 3 game weeks, he didn't freshen things up. Midfield, in particular, was largely anonymous. Hayden and Hodge are lacking game-time and, following Saturday's exertions, looked leggy. Selecting a fresh Field perhaps would have been a sensible move.
Secondly, the switch in tactics failed. Whilst I understand that he wanted to take advantage of the lack of pace in the Stoke defence, Schumacher easily negated this by abandoning his attacking principles and opting for 5 at the back. Having scored first, Stoke were then able to double down on their defensive approach to eek out the win.
In hindsight, Marti must be kicking himself. Stoke looked a bag of nerves and were there for the taking. Had QPR stuck with the tactics that had brought rewards in the previous 4 matches, I reckon we would have returned from the Potteries with something. As it is, we're left staring down the barrel of relegation.
That all being said, it must be remembered that Marti started this gig needing several snookers. Overall, he has clearly improved the team and given the club a puncher's chance of survival. Whilst we're still breathing, we keep fighting. |  | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 02:29 - Feb 16 with 1088 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Marti got that one wrong on 14:31 - Feb 15 by lassel |
I mean I don’t mean to be a cnt so I apologise in advance if it comes across that way but if you think the plan was for JCS to be thumping it long to Armstrong at every opportunity then you need to give your head a wobble. Marti can tell them whatever he wants but he cannot physically do it for them.
I constantly come back to Paal as the issue that I don’t think people pick up on enough - he played CM in Holland and 3 consecutive managers have said they see him as an auxiliary CM. The guy should be proactively looking to come inside and add an additional man when we have the ball and letting the ‘10’ get up and support the lone striker but instead he’s glued to the sideline, hidden behind his man and whenever the ball goes in his direction his instinct is just to go backwards with it. The guys an utter coward. |
How do you know what Marti did or didn't tell them? I find the idea that he set them up brilliantly only for them to play their own agricultural/stupid long-ball game for 98m absurd. They're all to blame, players and coaching staff, and the lot of them need to learn from last night's horrorshow. | |
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| Marti got that one wrong on 04:38 - Feb 16 with 1064 views | PlanetHonneywood |
One of the two most pertinent posts this year, was from one of our breathern, whom pointed out that which I hadn't seen, despite 50 years of following this nonsense: take the 'R' and the 's' off 'Rangers' and that's what you're left with.
However, this is only if you let it! I posted on another thread how I've programmed myself to expect and accept 'hopeless' as the underlying element of all things QPR*.
In Nourryspeak: Anything that delivers a number greater than the median 1:1 when using the Nourry Happiness Coefficient (Your Age x QPR Wins / (c÷r + a-p) 4²) will determine your level of contentedness with all things QPR. It's how you handle things when the Nourry-median is below 1:1 (currently 1:0.02) that's the key to getting through the difficult seasons.
As Charles Dickens said: “Happiness is a gift and the trick is not to expect it, but to delight in it when it comes.”
* The precise date when my enlightenment began, was on 20 April 1986. |  |
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| Marti got that one wrong on 06:14 - Feb 16 with 1038 views | paulparker |
| Marti got that one wrong on 15:28 - Feb 15 by Northernr |
You've actually pre-empted my theme for the match preview - what is it about the environment and culture at QPR that sets players up to fail? We've got Dozzell scoring winners for Birmingham, and Dickie on the verge of getting POTY at Bristol City... |
Because the club from top to bottom is seen as an easy ride with no standards, it’s been like that sine 2011 , it’s like at work or at school when your boss goes home for the day and everyone dosses about, same at school when you have a supply teacher come in and the kids just do what they want
This club is a shambles with no heart or desire |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Marti got that one wrong on 07:48 - Feb 16 with 981 views | Northernr |
| Marti got that one wrong on 00:44 - Feb 16 by Benny_the_Ball |
I like Marti and have been suitably impressed with his work to date. However, I must say that I agree with the OP; last night he got it wrong.
Firstly, unlike previous 3 game weeks, he didn't freshen things up. Midfield, in particular, was largely anonymous. Hayden and Hodge are lacking game-time and, following Saturday's exertions, looked leggy. Selecting a fresh Field perhaps would have been a sensible move.
Secondly, the switch in tactics failed. Whilst I understand that he wanted to take advantage of the lack of pace in the Stoke defence, Schumacher easily negated this by abandoning his attacking principles and opting for 5 at the back. Having scored first, Stoke were then able to double down on their defensive approach to eek out the win.
In hindsight, Marti must be kicking himself. Stoke looked a bag of nerves and were there for the taking. Had QPR stuck with the tactics that had brought rewards in the previous 4 matches, I reckon we would have returned from the Potteries with something. As it is, we're left staring down the barrel of relegation.
That all being said, it must be remembered that Marti started this gig needing several snookers. Overall, he has clearly improved the team and given the club a puncher's chance of survival. Whilst we're still breathing, we keep fighting. |
If he'd dropped Hayden or Hodge for Sam Field after the weekend can you imagine the reaction? | | | |
| Marti got that one wrong on 08:12 - Feb 16 with 951 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Marti got that one wrong on 07:48 - Feb 16 by Northernr |
If he'd dropped Hayden or Hodge for Sam Field after the weekend can you imagine the reaction? |
On Twitter maybe but on here with experienced Championship fans who have some sense you would hope the reaction would be exactly as Benny has rightly called it....
You finally fix your defensive set-piece facilities and you throw that in the bin and try to integrate 3 new players into a defensive set-up with zero time on the training pitch?
We have made marginal but very significant improvements under Marti (Chair crossing first time on his left foot being one stand-out) but not starting Field at Stoke is one very few experienced Championship Managers would have made.
If we are to survive, we need pragmatism from our Manager rather than purism and playing those who are not fully match fit is not a good call.
I believe if Marti can combine the marginal improvements he has made with the few players who care for our club (and or have professional pride) we can still stay up. | | | |
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