| Table since Marti came in on 11:17 - Feb 6 with 2560 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:07 - Feb 6 by numptydumpty |
Can't follow your logic on that one Bazz.
We got rid of Ainsworth anyhow. And seems way we did it was sponsorship of stands etc...
We all know about FFP and the rules.
We somehow got four new players in also after offloading Dozzell. Again, can't believe we risking FFP breach by doing so. [Post edited 6 Feb 11:07]
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It’s not my logic, it’s fact.
We couldn’t afford Marti last May. We’ve been told that by numerous people officially from the club.
Clive can confirm that, video interviews from the official site can confirm that, anyone who’s been listening can confirm that. [Post edited 6 Feb 11:19]
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| Table since Marti came in on 11:21 - Feb 6 with 2542 views | BrianMcCarthy |
"The latest communication about the financial position was that we would do no business in the January window. That was clearly expressed in the CEO's only interview."
I think his phrase was that we wouldn't be "active", which is a far more subjective comment. Four players in is not overly active, I suppose, but it's still signficant. |  |
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| Table since Marti came in on 11:22 - Feb 6 with 2532 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:11 - Feb 6 by Antti_Heinola |
Jesus Christ mate.
If that wasn't freefall I don't know what is.
The Burnley result was perhaps the luckiest win in the history of football. |
You’ll agree that’s it harder to sack a manager with three wins in five or whatever it was at the end though right?
This isn’t a defence of Ainsworth by the way, I’m just commenting on the tone at the time which I think has slipped the mind of some.
Personally, with two years of hindsight, we shouldn’t have taken him on in the first place. That is a change of position for me and hard to write.
I know this doesn’t apply to you Anti, but it feels like people are re writing history or arguing against the realities of FFP to make themselves feel better.
If we lose on Saturday, anti Marti talk will be back on the agenda. [Post edited 6 Feb 11:27]
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| Table since Marti came in on 11:24 - Feb 6 with 2519 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:16 - Feb 6 by TK1 |
As a fanbase, we don't in fact have to "grapple with the financial legislation that rules almost every decision we make."
That's for the owners.
The only thing we must grapple with is supporting the team as best we can, while talking made-up bollocks on the Internet about it.
Part of that involves working out from the official (and unofficial) club communications what the financial position is. Because we do not in truth know what it is. How can you grapple with something invisible? We have no idea about FFP yet.
The latest communication about the financial position was that we would do no business in the January window. That was clearly expressed in the CEO's only interview.
In fact, just a few weeks later, we did a lot of business in the January transfer window, including signing two players from Premier League clubs.
So, if the will had been there - which I don't believe it was post-Les, as there was a massive vacuum due to one small, irritable American running the entire club last summer - QPR could've definitely dispensed with Ainsworth in July rather than the autumn. Ifs and buts...but Marti in charge of pre-season would've guaranteed a better 23-24 season.
But we are where we are. Let the club worry about the money, about FFP. You'll never know the truth until it's too late. And there's nothing fans can do about it anyway. |
I’ll be honest I didn’t read all of that sorry, but we should ask fans of Reading, Derby, or Bury if they’d wish they’d taken a greater interest in the financial goings on of their club, | | | |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:29 - Feb 6 with 2471 views | PhilmyRs |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:22 - Feb 6 by BazzaInTheLoft |
You’ll agree that’s it harder to sack a manager with three wins in five or whatever it was at the end though right?
This isn’t a defence of Ainsworth by the way, I’m just commenting on the tone at the time which I think has slipped the mind of some.
Personally, with two years of hindsight, we shouldn’t have taken him on in the first place. That is a change of position for me and hard to write.
I know this doesn’t apply to you Anti, but it feels like people are re writing history or arguing against the realities of FFP to make themselves feel better.
If we lose on Saturday, anti Marti talk will be back on the agenda. [Post edited 6 Feb 11:27]
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Purely on the 'harder to sack a Manager with three wins in five", well that depends on the level of performance in those 3 and what went before. Based on the slop dished up by Ainsworth, I think a decision should have been taken much earlier to part ways at the end of the season. 2 incredibly lucky wins, but ultimately not great performances, would no way have come close to affecting that judgement. Of course if those 2 wins were 5 nil wins, playing sparkling football you may think a corner has been turned, but it was clear that no such thing had happened. We were destined for failure and it would have been an easy call to part ways in the summer. He was a failure, and it was clear to everyone it wouldn't change if he was given pre-season and the start of this season. |  | | |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:32 - Feb 6 with 2464 views | TheChef |
| Table since Marti came in on 10:11 - Feb 6 by BazzaInTheLoft |
We don’t know
A) how much it would have cost to get rid of Ainsworth
B) how much it would have cost to bring Marti in at the time.
So was probably a good reason we didn’t do that. Also Ainsworth was unbeaten in three and had just beaten Burnley at the end of last season so wasn’t like we were in free fall. The politics and perception of managers are fleeting. |
To buy out Marti after Beale left would have cost one million quid - Les Ferdinand told me so himself.
In hindsight we should have bit the bullet and done it BUT probably would have caused more FFP issues.
Sigh. [Post edited 6 Feb 11:44]
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| Table since Marti came in on 11:36 - Feb 6 with 2459 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:29 - Feb 6 by PhilmyRs |
Purely on the 'harder to sack a Manager with three wins in five", well that depends on the level of performance in those 3 and what went before. Based on the slop dished up by Ainsworth, I think a decision should have been taken much earlier to part ways at the end of the season. 2 incredibly lucky wins, but ultimately not great performances, would no way have come close to affecting that judgement. Of course if those 2 wins were 5 nil wins, playing sparkling football you may think a corner has been turned, but it was clear that no such thing had happened. We were destined for failure and it would have been an easy call to part ways in the summer. He was a failure, and it was clear to everyone it wouldn't change if he was given pre-season and the start of this season. |
I can't stress this enough, we wouldn't have had Marti at the start of the season regardless of whether we sacked Ainsworth or not.
Like it or not, it's just not true.
Perhaps we could have sacked Ainsworth and had a temp in? But again that appointment would have eaten into FFP headroom too. | | | |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:37 - Feb 6 with 2453 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:32 - Feb 6 by TheChef |
To buy out Marti after Beale left would have cost one million quid - Les Ferdinand told me so himself.
In hindsight we should have bit the bullet and done it BUT probably would have caused more FFP issues.
Sigh. [Post edited 6 Feb 11:44]
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Now this is fair enough!
We should have appointed Marti after Beale, done the stadium sponsorship thing, and saved money later on. That is something I get behind assuming that was an additional FFP year which I think it was.
[Post edited 6 Feb 11:39]
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| Table since Marti came in on 11:38 - Feb 6 with 2427 views | Bluce_Ree |
| Table since Marti came in on 10:15 - Feb 6 by Spaceman_P |
This is all well and good and all.... but sorry to burst the bubble, but we're still third from bottom. |
yeah but, importantly, we're not playing like HOOPED C*NTS as much now. |  |
| Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. |
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| Table since Marti came in on 11:38 - Feb 6 with 2436 views | TK1 |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:21 - Feb 6 by BrianMcCarthy |
"The latest communication about the financial position was that we would do no business in the January window. That was clearly expressed in the CEO's only interview."
I think his phrase was that we wouldn't be "active", which is a far more subjective comment. Four players in is not overly active, I suppose, but it's still signficant. |
Signing four players is active!
It's QPR. We have always, always, since the dawn of time - even on the verge of bankruptcy - sacked managers and signed loads of players. It's the club's DNA. | | | |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:41 - Feb 6 with 2404 views | TK1 |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:36 - Feb 6 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I can't stress this enough, we wouldn't have had Marti at the start of the season regardless of whether we sacked Ainsworth or not.
Like it or not, it's just not true.
Perhaps we could have sacked Ainsworth and had a temp in? But again that appointment would have eaten into FFP headroom too. |
I'm sorry, I didn't read all of that but what is the evidence for that?
ps. we are not Reading, Derby nor Bury. Every club's circumstances are different. | | | |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:45 - Feb 6 with 2390 views | EastR |
Back to the table
What’s interesting is that in those 16 games we’ve managed to gain 6-7 points on Blackburn, Birmingham and Stoke and 3 on Huddersfield and Sheff Weds.
With basically the same number of games left, if we can keep that up we’re in with a shout. But strap in, its gonna be tight. | |
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| Table since Marti came in on 11:55 - Feb 6 with 2351 views | CateLeBonR |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:37 - Feb 6 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Now this is fair enough!
We should have appointed Marti after Beale, done the stadium sponsorship thing, and saved money later on. That is something I get behind assuming that was an additional FFP year which I think it was.
[Post edited 6 Feb 11:39]
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Although it was a much more toxic environment back then and the club/players had been let down and lied to and were all crocked or going off to the World Cup etc. Expectations had been raised. Think in lots of ways it was an easier job for Marti to come in this season. Apart from our position in the league we’re in better shape IMO. [Post edited 6 Feb 11:57]
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| Table since Marti came in on 12:03 - Feb 6 with 2297 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
Huge improvement under Marti, the table doesn't lie. Just on the players that have come Inn, I'd be amazed if we are paying any wages or fees for Hodge and Hayden, we couldn't afford them else.
I have no idea if we'll stay up, but at least we have a fighting chance under Marti. | | | |
| Table since Marti came in on 12:03 - Feb 6 with 2299 views | TheChef |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:55 - Feb 6 by CateLeBonR |
Although it was a much more toxic environment back then and the club/players had been let down and lied to and were all crocked or going off to the World Cup etc. Expectations had been raised. Think in lots of ways it was an easier job for Marti to come in this season. Apart from our position in the league we’re in better shape IMO. [Post edited 6 Feb 11:57]
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For sure would have been interesting to see how he dealt with the likes of Laird and Roberts (and Richards back then, if he wasn't as far gone as he seems to be now...). | |
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| Table since Marti came in on 12:35 - Feb 6 with 2165 views | PhilmyRs |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:36 - Feb 6 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I can't stress this enough, we wouldn't have had Marti at the start of the season regardless of whether we sacked Ainsworth or not.
Like it or not, it's just not true.
Perhaps we could have sacked Ainsworth and had a temp in? But again that appointment would have eaten into FFP headroom too. |
Maybe, but that's financial reasons why they couldn't sack him. I was talking purely on the 2 wins at the end of the season and you suggesting it's much harder to get rid after that. Based on the wins in question, the performances of the team during those wins and what proceeded them, it would have been entirely the correct call to sack him, we were rubbish.
The money situation I'm not sure on and whether that prevented change. | | | |
| Table since Marti came in on 12:42 - Feb 6 with 2110 views | CamberleyR |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:22 - Feb 6 by BazzaInTheLoft |
You’ll agree that’s it harder to sack a manager with three wins in five or whatever it was at the end though right?
This isn’t a defence of Ainsworth by the way, I’m just commenting on the tone at the time which I think has slipped the mind of some.
Personally, with two years of hindsight, we shouldn’t have taken him on in the first place. That is a change of position for me and hard to write.
I know this doesn’t apply to you Anti, but it feels like people are re writing history or arguing against the realities of FFP to make themselves feel better.
If we lose on Saturday, anti Marti talk will be back on the agenda. [Post edited 6 Feb 11:27]
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It wasn't three wins in five Baz. Prior to winning at Burnley and Stoke in the third and second last games of the season, we had taken 2 points from 21 after beating Watford or if you like, 5 points from a possible 30 since he'd taken charge.
Those two wins have to be seen in context and going very much against the form we were showing which was nailed on relegation form. And as Antti points out that Burnley game we probably wouldn't win it 999 times out of a thousand usually. |  |
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| Table since Marti came in on 12:49 - Feb 6 with 2062 views | QPROslo |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:29 - Feb 6 by PhilmyRs |
Purely on the 'harder to sack a Manager with three wins in five", well that depends on the level of performance in those 3 and what went before. Based on the slop dished up by Ainsworth, I think a decision should have been taken much earlier to part ways at the end of the season. 2 incredibly lucky wins, but ultimately not great performances, would no way have come close to affecting that judgement. Of course if those 2 wins were 5 nil wins, playing sparkling football you may think a corner has been turned, but it was clear that no such thing had happened. We were destined for failure and it would have been an easy call to part ways in the summer. He was a failure, and it was clear to everyone it wouldn't change if he was given pre-season and the start of this season. |
"He was a failure" ? Gareth would have the good arguement that he kept us up last season, and how he did was hardly relevant. He got the result. This season the results so far under him and since, with the same players until Blackburn away, make "failure" difficult to dispute. | | | |
| Table since Marti came in on 12:55 - Feb 6 with 2042 views | E15Hoop |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:29 - Feb 6 by PhilmyRs |
Purely on the 'harder to sack a Manager with three wins in five", well that depends on the level of performance in those 3 and what went before. Based on the slop dished up by Ainsworth, I think a decision should have been taken much earlier to part ways at the end of the season. 2 incredibly lucky wins, but ultimately not great performances, would no way have come close to affecting that judgement. Of course if those 2 wins were 5 nil wins, playing sparkling football you may think a corner has been turned, but it was clear that no such thing had happened. We were destined for failure and it would have been an easy call to part ways in the summer. He was a failure, and it was clear to everyone it wouldn't change if he was given pre-season and the start of this season. |
One aspect you haven't factored into this argument is the fact that Amit would have had to have undergone a massive climbdown to have sacked Ainsworth at that time, having publicly staed that appointing him in the first place was "an itch he couldn't scratch".
Of course, ironically, he has had to do that anyway and lost his figurehead role as part of the process, which makes me wonder if there was in fact mass panic behind the scenes, especially given our abysmal start to this season.
I suspect Bhatia and Hoos were waiting to have certain ducks in a row before finally pushing the "Emergency Ejector Seat" button - lets all just be thankful that we seem to be finding our feet again, both publicly and behind the scenes. | | | |
| Table since Marti came in on 13:12 - Feb 6 with 1976 views | PhilmyRs |
| Table since Marti came in on 12:49 - Feb 6 by QPROslo |
"He was a failure" ? Gareth would have the good arguement that he kept us up last season, and how he did was hardly relevant. He got the result. This season the results so far under him and since, with the same players until Blackburn away, make "failure" difficult to dispute. |
Where were we in the table - i.e. how close to the drop zone - when he took over? and how close to the drop zone did we finish? I could be wrong, but pretty sure we ended up closer to the relegation zone by the end of the season. So I'd dispute that he kept us up, and would instead say he made it much more probable that we would be relegated. | | | |
| Table since Marti came in on 13:17 - Feb 6 with 1901 views | kensalriser |
The goals conceded is an eye popping stat but equally, only five teams have scored fewer. That's where we need to improve. |  |
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| Table since Marti came in on 13:42 - Feb 6 with 1790 views | johnhoop |
Any supporter who had the immense misfortune to have been present at the 1-3 defeats by Sunderland and Coventry and the 0-4 drubbing by Blackburn will have been very grateful indeed for the job that Marti has done since he took over.
Those performances were an absolute embarrassment and I’d just about made up my mind to not inflict any more of it on myself until Ainsworth went, season ticket or not. | | | |
| Table since Marti came in on 13:51 - Feb 6 with 1758 views | CateLeBonR |
| Table since Marti came in on 13:17 - Feb 6 by kensalriser |
The goals conceded is an eye popping stat but equally, only five teams have scored fewer. That's where we need to improve. |
And to score more you usually need to open up more which often leads to more goals being conceded. One thing we could improve on without a tactical overhaul is our threat from set pieces. Hopefully Tommy Fleetwood can help with that!
[Post edited 6 Feb 14:00]
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| Table since Marti came in on 14:02 - Feb 6 with 1677 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Table since Marti came in on 11:16 - Feb 6 by TK1 |
As a fanbase, we don't in fact have to "grapple with the financial legislation that rules almost every decision we make."
That's for the owners.
The only thing we must grapple with is supporting the team as best we can, while talking made-up bollocks on the Internet about it.
Part of that involves working out from the official (and unofficial) club communications what the financial position is. Because we do not in truth know what it is. How can you grapple with something invisible? We have no idea about FFP yet.
The latest communication about the financial position was that we would do no business in the January window. That was clearly expressed in the CEO's only interview.
In fact, just a few weeks later, we did a lot of business in the January transfer window, including signing two players from Premier League clubs.
So, if the will had been there - which I don't believe it was post-Les, as there was a massive vacuum due to one small, irritable American running the entire club last summer - QPR could've definitely dispensed with Ainsworth in July rather than the autumn. Ifs and buts...but Marti in charge of pre-season would've guaranteed a better 23-24 season.
But we are where we are. Let the club worry about the money, about FFP. You'll never know the truth until it's too late. And there's nothing fans can do about it anyway. |
Agree with this, and the difference between the new CEO's interview and our window makes it clear anyway, if clarity were needed, that football is mostly just smoke, mirrors and general chicanery. The clue to a fan's job lies in the word itself: to be an irrational, irritable, know-it-all/ignorant fanatic, in short a fractious mad(wo)man. Job's a good'un! |  |
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| Table since Marti came in on 14:04 - Feb 6 with 1654 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Table since Marti came in on 12:03 - Feb 6 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
Huge improvement under Marti, the table doesn't lie. Just on the players that have come Inn, I'd be amazed if we are paying any wages or fees for Hodge and Hayden, we couldn't afford them else.
I have no idea if we'll stay up, but at least we have a fighting chance under Marti. |
If that's his form table, I'm amazed we're still in the bottom three. What was the points gap from 21st when he arrived? | |
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