| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up 13:20 - Jan 29 with 6231 views | ParkRoyalR |
I think most would agree that Smyth, Armstrong or Willock are worthy of a starting position in the wide positions,
I think most would agree we struggle to transition the ball out of defence, either via the Full-Backs or the two CDM's,
I think most would agree Chair was our most effective player on Sunday with two superb early crosses, one on his left foot and one from wide right (showing the benefit of early balls before defenders have time to get their body-shape right Ilias!),
I think most would agree we saw the best of Chair & Willock when they play narrow and close to each other with their very effective quick interchange of short passes,
So, why, why, why is Chair not playing in the middle as the 10, behind Dykes (ignore that bit) with Smyth on the right, Willock on the Left and Armstrong coming on for last 30 (ignore that bit as this post is about Chair)
Northern maybe rightly thinks this is moving the last few chairs on the Titanic whereas I think there always time to keep looking for the last life-jacket. If we don't make this change, this team is relegated. |  | | |  |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:04 - Jan 29 with 1342 views | Northernr |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 14:35 - Jan 29 by ParkRoyalR |
I think you'd accept that's an opinion rather than a statement of fact.
I'd counter Chair played in a different position yesterday late-on and instead of us now being 6 points behind and terminally cut-adrift we are only 3 points behind 4th bottom.
This is because Chair found space on the right, that defensive side was'nt pre-drilled all week into doubling up on him and he put in a very rare collectors items which he can do from the right, a 1st time cross!
Our tactics and substitutions at Millwall away didnt help us, our zonal marking at Cardiff at home didnt help us, our Manager is learning from these mistakes and has made changes for the better.
Luke Freeman carried our team to victory against a very good Leeds side, Ilias Chair can do this and needs more of the ball in a free role before I accept relegation. |
As I say, ten wins in 62 games across the best part of a year and a half. We've had four different managers in that time, trying a variety of formations, styles, shapes, systems, long ball, short ball, possession football, zero possession football. And it remains, we win fewer than one game in every 6 we play.
So yeh it's an opinion, but it's as near to fact as opinion gets. We are not a change of formation or a slightly different team selection away from cracking this, and the more we kid ourselves we are the closer we come to once again deciding the manager is the problem and we should get rid of him which in this case, with this manager, would be monumentally stupid. |  | | |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:05 - Jan 29 with 1328 views | TheChef |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:01 - Jan 29 by BrianMcCarthy |
Fair point...and the only reason he had space was precisely that: because it was broken play after a free kick.
No matter where Chair goes he's going to be double marked in open play. Because he's our main threat by a distance. (nominated for another award today). Play him at 10 or coming deep through the centre and they'll double-mark him there.
Besides which, there is absolutely no way we can afford the luxury of a free player in this eleven. This is not Taarabt and Warnock's supporting cast of ten. |
Also Cook was about to cross the ball in himself when he saw Chair and sensibly passed it to him instead 
Mentioned it many times already but in an underperforming team his performance also declines as he tries to do too much himself. But I suppose he's the best we have currently. |  |
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| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:06 - Jan 29 with 1325 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 14:54 - Jan 29 by daveB |
do you think he won't have 2 men on him if he plays in the middle?
Teams will be pressing him and forcing him into mistakes.
On the left yesterday he put in several good early crosses that as ever our team did nothing with |
I'm not sure even Chair's biggest fans on this Forum would argue he puts in early crosses from the Left,
If as you say, he does do this, but no-one is ever on the end of these 'early' crosses, why would we persist with a tactic that does'nt work?
On the left yesterday I saw only one good early cross (left footed) which their defender somehow managed to send over the bar rather than into his own net, resulting in a goal-kick!
In the middle and in a free role he has a 40 x 40 yard zone to find space where as on the Left Flank he has half that space.
Chair very rarely loses possession of the ball as he has a low centre of gravity and great body strength, so him losing the ball is not a concern, plus we have seen him interchange and receive give & go's from Willock to great effect, shoot from distance as EDB did in that role yesterday, I really cannot see an argument for restricted our most mobile and best (right footed) player on the left by-line. | | | |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:11 - Jan 29 with 1281 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:04 - Jan 29 by Northernr |
As I say, ten wins in 62 games across the best part of a year and a half. We've had four different managers in that time, trying a variety of formations, styles, shapes, systems, long ball, short ball, possession football, zero possession football. And it remains, we win fewer than one game in every 6 we play.
So yeh it's an opinion, but it's as near to fact as opinion gets. We are not a change of formation or a slightly different team selection away from cracking this, and the more we kid ourselves we are the closer we come to once again deciding the manager is the problem and we should get rid of him which in this case, with this manager, would be monumentally stupid. |
Fair points and I'm not saying this group are going to go charging up the League anytime soon, but in a game of fine margins this could be a significant marginal gain.
Ask yourself, if you're an opposition Manager or Defender, would you prefer to see Chair play against you on the left flank or in a free role as the 10 in the middle? | | | |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:12 - Jan 29 with 1270 views | Northernr |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:11 - Jan 29 by ParkRoyalR |
Fair points and I'm not saying this group are going to go charging up the League anytime soon, but in a game of fine margins this could be a significant marginal gain.
Ask yourself, if you're an opposition Manager or Defender, would you prefer to see Chair play against you on the left flank or in a free role as the 10 in the middle? |
There's your first mistake. These aren't fine margins. We're certainly a good deal closer under Cifuentes than we were under Ainsworth, but we are miles and miles off good enough. | | | |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:16 - Jan 29 with 1236 views | DaBurgh |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 14:26 - Jan 29 by Northernr |
We've won ten times in 62 games across nearly a year and a half.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
As is often mentioned in other professional circles, "Past performance is no guarantee of future results" |  | | |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:17 - Jan 29 with 1232 views | Northernr |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:16 - Jan 29 by DaBurgh |
As is often mentioned in other professional circles, "Past performance is no guarantee of future results" |
Whatever you need to believe. | | | |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:19 - Jan 29 with 1220 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:12 - Jan 29 by Northernr |
There's your first mistake. These aren't fine margins. We're certainly a good deal closer under Cifuentes than we were under Ainsworth, but we are miles and miles off good enough. |
Being 4th bottom come the end of the season?
We've sorted out our defending from corners & set-pieces by subtle changes, one being taking JCS out of the line of fire, that's a fine margin gain,
I still believe we can do this with our attack as Chair showed when he came on against Preston,
One thing we can agree on, if we repeat Sunday's performance and U12 tactics in forthcoming games, we're relegated. | | | |
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| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:19 - Jan 29 with 1220 views | dannyblue |
Our shape wasn't working for us / Huddersfield had countered it well.
I felt we needed to change it around 55 mins and was disappointed we didn't.
I personally thought we should have just juggled it. Keep Dykes central, brought Chair and Willock closer together left and centre. And had Armstrong on the other side.
Thinking being that if Chair, Paal, Willock can hold the ball and knock it between them, Armstrong can then be isolated 1-on-1 with whoever's on the other side...opening up opportunities for the big switch or arriving back stick.
While I get the point about being crap over multiple seasons, there are still fine margins in individual games where a tinker can give you an advantage in the eternal game of rock paper scissors. |  | | |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:22 - Jan 29 with 1194 views | TheChef |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:19 - Jan 29 by dannyblue |
Our shape wasn't working for us / Huddersfield had countered it well.
I felt we needed to change it around 55 mins and was disappointed we didn't.
I personally thought we should have just juggled it. Keep Dykes central, brought Chair and Willock closer together left and centre. And had Armstrong on the other side.
Thinking being that if Chair, Paal, Willock can hold the ball and knock it between them, Armstrong can then be isolated 1-on-1 with whoever's on the other side...opening up opportunities for the big switch or arriving back stick.
While I get the point about being crap over multiple seasons, there are still fine margins in individual games where a tinker can give you an advantage in the eternal game of rock paper scissors. |
Yes! We could still be less crap!
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| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:45 - Jan 29 with 1127 views | daveB |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:06 - Jan 29 by ParkRoyalR |
I'm not sure even Chair's biggest fans on this Forum would argue he puts in early crosses from the Left,
If as you say, he does do this, but no-one is ever on the end of these 'early' crosses, why would we persist with a tactic that does'nt work?
On the left yesterday I saw only one good early cross (left footed) which their defender somehow managed to send over the bar rather than into his own net, resulting in a goal-kick!
In the middle and in a free role he has a 40 x 40 yard zone to find space where as on the Left Flank he has half that space.
Chair very rarely loses possession of the ball as he has a low centre of gravity and great body strength, so him losing the ball is not a concern, plus we have seen him interchange and receive give & go's from Willock to great effect, shoot from distance as EDB did in that role yesterday, I really cannot see an argument for restricted our most mobile and best (right footed) player on the left by-line. |
He's not restricted to the left by-line though, he does come into the middle from a starting position of the left, he pops up all over the place, I'm not sure why his starting position being in the middle is going to make any difference. You need a specialist in that position and ideally someone who hasn't been here the last few years so comes in with fresh enthusiasm |  | | |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:47 - Jan 29 with 1113 views | daveB |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:12 - Jan 29 by Northernr |
There's your first mistake. These aren't fine margins. We're certainly a good deal closer under Cifuentes than we were under Ainsworth, but we are miles and miles off good enough. |
I know what you mean but when you look at that bottom 6/7 I'm not sure any of them are miles better than us and thats who we are competing with. Longer term major surgery is needed on this squad whatever league we end up in but for the rest of this season we have as good a chance as anyone down there of staying up. | | | |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:52 - Jan 29 with 1102 views | terryb |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:19 - Jan 29 by ParkRoyalR |
Being 4th bottom come the end of the season?
We've sorted out our defending from corners & set-pieces by subtle changes, one being taking JCS out of the line of fire, that's a fine margin gain,
I still believe we can do this with our attack as Chair showed when he came on against Preston,
One thing we can agree on, if we repeat Sunday's performance and U12 tactics in forthcoming games, we're relegated. |
He definitely changed the game at Preston.
He did play wide on the left though & not in the middle as you're advocating. | | | |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:58 - Jan 29 with 1053 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 14:45 - Jan 29 by TheChef |
Pffft yeah. And? |
What’s gone is gone, what happens next is the key.
Shifting Dozzell out of that midfield and bringing in a new unit up front can only be a positive change. We keep going and we keep hoping. Not throwing in the towel yet ( although I will be taking one to Blackburn to throw at Begovic if we fall to the usual lame arsed defeat). | | | |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:58 - Jan 29 with 1051 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:45 - Jan 29 by daveB |
He's not restricted to the left by-line though, he does come into the middle from a starting position of the left, he pops up all over the place, I'm not sure why his starting position being in the middle is going to make any difference. You need a specialist in that position and ideally someone who hasn't been here the last few years so comes in with fresh enthusiasm |
Chair has unlimited enthusiasm and energy and its rare, if ever, I have seen him give up, not yesterday, not Sunderland away at 0-2 with 5 minutes to play when he was having a terrible game, not ever.
Darren Moore worked us out and had a game plan with 4 pressing our Back 4 meaning our only out-ball was the ball over the top as our CDM's cannot take the ball on the Half-Turn (Field) or break the opposition lines by running with the ball (Colback).
Chair playing in front of and between Field and Colback gives JCS and Cook the pass out from the back they were looking for yesterday, and without this option, Cook continually punted long with our only plan being Armstrong chasing and beating two defenders, which was always unlikely. | | | |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 16:02 - Jan 29 with 1034 views | E15Hoop |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 13:29 - Jan 29 by ParkRoyalR |
Disagree, he found space on the right yesterday and maybe saved our season. Too easily marked on the left flank when they doubled up on him, Chair has to be given a free role.
If your the oppositions Manager, would you fear Chair on the left flank (where you can double up on him) or have him roving across the front line looking for space in front of your Centre Backs and inside your Fullbacks? |
As an opposition manager, I would be thinking I want to get him into a crowded middle as quickly as possible so that I can have a solid wall of 4 or 5 players in front of him.
If he then drops deep, I keep that wall there, forcing him to have to play the ball to beat it, or to shoot from long-range. | | | |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 16:15 - Jan 29 with 993 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 16:02 - Jan 29 by E15Hoop |
As an opposition manager, I would be thinking I want to get him into a crowded middle as quickly as possible so that I can have a solid wall of 4 or 5 players in front of him.
If he then drops deep, I keep that wall there, forcing him to have to play the ball to beat it, or to shoot from long-range. |
Livermore & Bannan always seems to find plenty of space in the middle against us, sure Chair could do likewise.
I'd rather Chair coming from a bit deeper where he has time to get his head up and play one-two's off Willock or pass long to Smyth,
With his close control, low centre of gravity and dribbling skills, I think he'd be a Centre Back's nightmare,,
Just think in the middle he's more likely to get the best out of Willock and significantly increase our ability to transition from defence to attack, which we just could'nt do at all yesterday. | | | |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 16:17 - Jan 29 with 991 views | daveB |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 16:15 - Jan 29 by ParkRoyalR |
Livermore & Bannan always seems to find plenty of space in the middle against us, sure Chair could do likewise.
I'd rather Chair coming from a bit deeper where he has time to get his head up and play one-two's off Willock or pass long to Smyth,
With his close control, low centre of gravity and dribbling skills, I think he'd be a Centre Back's nightmare,,
Just think in the middle he's more likely to get the best out of Willock and significantly increase our ability to transition from defence to attack, which we just could'nt do at all yesterday. |
That's against us though, other teams are not so generous | | | |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 19:25 - Jan 29 with 859 views | Stainrod |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:04 - Jan 29 by Northernr |
As I say, ten wins in 62 games across the best part of a year and a half. We've had four different managers in that time, trying a variety of formations, styles, shapes, systems, long ball, short ball, possession football, zero possession football. And it remains, we win fewer than one game in every 6 we play.
So yeh it's an opinion, but it's as near to fact as opinion gets. We are not a change of formation or a slightly different team selection away from cracking this, and the more we kid ourselves we are the closer we come to once again deciding the manager is the problem and we should get rid of him which in this case, with this manager, would be monumentally stupid. |
It would be naive in the extreme to STILL claim there is some cunning plan to pull off a glorious revival. And it would be certifiably insane to propose a cunning plan that involved sacking one of the most promising Rangers managers I have seen down the Bush in years.
But to argue there is no point fiddling because Rome (or Loftus Rd) is already burning is too defeatist. It is also contradictory as it ignores precisely all those little tweaks Marti has made and which is precisely why you rightly say we should get behind him. He has done lots already but (time and games allowing) there is more he can do. Look at the stats last week showing our massively better xG against. Lets now see if he can do the same moving forwards.
I wouldn't claim to be a tactical genius but trying Chair on the right where he can cut in or go wide is surely worth trying? When Kolli is fit I would also try him in one match on the left.
Totally get your point about the absurdity of armchair tacticians suggesting one tweak is THE answer (a popular one at the moment is "start Smyth", as if we haven't already tried that). But if you say there is no point discussing tactical alternatives we might as well give up? I was actually growing fairly sanguine about relegation until the fleeting, lying hope of the win over Millwall and still think going down is slightly more likely than not. But we have a genuinely very astute manager: see how he has made us way more solid at the back or trying Dykes behind Armstrong or giving some minutes to Dixon-Bonner. None of these things individually are likely to save us but lets continue to suggest new ideas - in a supportive way - as collectively these little changes MIGHT just make the difference. | | | |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 19:36 - Jan 29 with 830 views | joolsyp |
| Chair in the Middle - Last Hope of Staying Up on 15:12 - Jan 29 by Northernr |
There's your first mistake. These aren't fine margins. We're certainly a good deal closer under Cifuentes than we were under Ainsworth, but we are miles and miles off good enough. |
Didn't someone post that under Marti we've w4 d5 l6? That would suggest we're not miles away so I'd agree with those who say a tweak to formation may help.
On the other hand character, leadership and intelligence-wise on the pitch I'd agree we are a long way off. |  | | |
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