| Thought's on this from Les on 12:35 - Oct 15 with 2535 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Thought's on this from Les on 23:16 - Oct 14 by PunteR |
Yeh ?
I called this thread out as BS as its just gonna descend into the usual arguments we've had on here about racism at the club via Les Ferdinand, which to my mind deflects away from the actual issue that he wasn't very good.
Ive been pretty vocal on here criticising Les and its no way based on his skin colour. |
Ah, apologies. I assumed you were one of those who tries to shut down criticism. |  | |  |
| Thought's on this from Les on 12:50 - Oct 15 with 2540 views | BrianWilson |
| Thought's on this from Les on 16:21 - Oct 14 by traininvain |
I know every club has a small minority but you have to wonder how Alan Hendrix copes going to watch a football club in one of the most ethnically diverse parts of the country with a squad of players from different parts of the world.
It’s hard enough following QPR anyway but spare a thought for Alan. [Post edited 14 Oct 2023 16:21]
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He doesn't. Just another blue tick weirdo. |  |
| "a diseased bunch of mofos if there ever was one, their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons."
- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys |
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| Thought's on this from Les on 23:54 - Oct 15 with 2391 views | QPunkR |
| Thought's on this from Les on 16:21 - Oct 14 by traininvain |
I know every club has a small minority but you have to wonder how Alan Hendrix copes going to watch a football club in one of the most ethnically diverse parts of the country with a squad of players from different parts of the world.
It’s hard enough following QPR anyway but spare a thought for Alan. [Post edited 14 Oct 2023 16:21]
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#prayforAlan |  |
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| Thought's on this from Les on 13:36 - Oct 16 with 2248 views | perpignanR |
| Thought's on this from Les on 17:10 - Oct 14 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
When I was a kid in the mid 80s, all the hooliganism and racism on the terraces, I never once heard anything racist at QPR and I never have 40 years later.
People like this Alan bloke are not what QPR are about or represent, he seems more aligned with the Chelscum. |
Should have been in the ellerslie whenever Justin Fashanu played at HQ. Utterly disgusting. | | | |
| Thought's on this from Les on 17:21 - Oct 16 with 2123 views | TheChef |
| Thought's on this from Les on 06:31 - Oct 14 by Northolt_Rs |
Nothing to do with his colour….he was just a really shít DOF and we will pay the price for that for years to come. Look at the state of the club today! That’s his legacy from the last 8 years. Great player, terrible DOF. It will be interesting to see who the next club will be that offers him a DOF role. |
Can't wait for the day when you post something positive. |  |
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| Thought's on this from Les on 19:07 - Oct 16 with 2046 views | derbyhoop |
It's sad that, in 2023, an understated complaint about lack of opportunities for black ex footballers, is even an issue.
It carries some weight because there are few black managers, coaches, etc at the top of the game.
I believe that QPR have a much better record than most in putting non white guys (and girls) into prominent positions.
I dont think Les' tenure was an unqualified success but I doubt we'll ever get the full story and history may judge him more favourably than some on here and Twitter. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Thought's on this from Les on 19:38 - Oct 16 with 2009 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Thought's on this from Les on 19:07 - Oct 16 by derbyhoop |
It's sad that, in 2023, an understated complaint about lack of opportunities for black ex footballers, is even an issue.
It carries some weight because there are few black managers, coaches, etc at the top of the game.
I believe that QPR have a much better record than most in putting non white guys (and girls) into prominent positions.
I dont think Les' tenure was an unqualified success but I doubt we'll ever get the full story and history may judge him more favourably than some on here and Twitter. |
"I dont think Les' tenure was an unqualified success but I doubt we'll ever get the full story and history may judge him more favourably than some on here and Twitter."
Have always agreed with this. In his early years I thought he did a fine job at an unstable and volatile club that was rudderless until he arrived, drastically cutting the Premier League wage bill year on year against an extremely unfavourable FFP situation, and doing so while saving us from relegation and from possible catastrophe. He also brought our youth development from zilch to a situation where we were bringing players through, albeit some of them only ever made squad players. He also brought through players discarded by other clubs or bought for small money and their sales saved us again.
By the end, though, the development had dried up very badly. Maybe there's some in the pipleline, but when we reallly needed some we had no-one ready. Transfers had become a problem again, as managers who supposedly worked for him were getting permission (either from him or from the owners) to sign whoever they wanted. Finally, having wrestled control of managerial appointments only to have it taken from him again, he really had to leave.
I wish him nothing but the best in the future. He seems a really good man, and always behaved with dignity and decorum. |  |
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| Thought's on this from Les on 19:39 - Oct 16 with 2002 views | LimehouseR |
| Thought's on this from Les on 13:28 - Oct 14 by Northernr |
It’s a naughty headline. I’d expect a phone call if I headlined a piece like that because it distorts the quote.
That said, you didn’t have to go far into qpr social media to see stuff like that. Still don’t tbf.
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The BBC has slowly declined in its reporting. So much click bait, inaccurate quotes and headlines. I am very sceptical about reading anything on there any more. It's more like a tabloid these days. This goes for some of the presenting too. Some giving views or setting up a phone in for purely reactionary callers or to spark emotions. Politicians get such an easy ride on Sunday mornings and on news night, question time etc. I don't bother watching it any more. Although apparently Victoria Derbyshire was bit more solid when she was standing in for Kuenssberg...
As for Les, like someone mentioned earlier, most other industries and work places wouldn't have stood for the abuse and comments directed his way. It's not like the man wasn't trying his best and working hard for a club that has been an important part of his life. I only hope he isn't totally done with us after all the crap. He was doing a job that invokes every 'expert' opinion so no matter what he did in some eyes he was never going to be good enough. The club is in a terrible place but it's not of his making (in my opinion). He's still a legend for me. One of the main reasons as a child I began supporting this club and feeling proud in the playground kicking a tennis ball against a brick wall shouting "FERDINAND!"
I feel like I am done with football these days. |  | | |
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| Thought's on this from Les on 21:14 - Oct 16 with 1894 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Thought's on this from Les on 19:38 - Oct 16 by BrianMcCarthy |
"I dont think Les' tenure was an unqualified success but I doubt we'll ever get the full story and history may judge him more favourably than some on here and Twitter."
Have always agreed with this. In his early years I thought he did a fine job at an unstable and volatile club that was rudderless until he arrived, drastically cutting the Premier League wage bill year on year against an extremely unfavourable FFP situation, and doing so while saving us from relegation and from possible catastrophe. He also brought our youth development from zilch to a situation where we were bringing players through, albeit some of them only ever made squad players. He also brought through players discarded by other clubs or bought for small money and their sales saved us again.
By the end, though, the development had dried up very badly. Maybe there's some in the pipleline, but when we reallly needed some we had no-one ready. Transfers had become a problem again, as managers who supposedly worked for him were getting permission (either from him or from the owners) to sign whoever they wanted. Finally, having wrestled control of managerial appointments only to have it taken from him again, he really had to leave.
I wish him nothing but the best in the future. He seems a really good man, and always behaved with dignity and decorum. |
If anyone is to take credit for reducing the wage bill, it's Lee as he's the CFO and therefore in charge of finances. Even this is debateable as the wage bill was reduced through expiry of the many ridiculous contracts handed out in the Premier League. It wasn't down to any witchcraft by either Les or Lee. |  | | |
| Thought's on this from Les on 21:15 - Oct 16 with 1892 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Thought's on this from Les on 17:21 - Oct 16 by TheChef |
Can't wait for the day when you post something positive. |
He did - "Great player". | | | |
| Thought's on this from Les on 21:41 - Oct 16 with 1846 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Thought's on this from Les on 09:51 - Oct 14 by Esox_Lucius |
The least amount of research would unearth the fact that LF DID have qualifications to do the job. What he didn't have was experience in doing that job. NOBODY ever starts a new job with years of experience, it is making the mistakes and the on the job learning that develops a person in a role. He was following the model you espoused in your thread but the checkout analogy is disingenuous at least. |
Nonsense. A qualification doesn't make you Director material. Degree graduates do not walk straight into a C' level role. Typically, you need to have fulfilled a senior management post for a number of years before being considered for a Directorial position. The only exception to this is if you start up your own company, which isn't the case here.
The fact remains that Les had zero relevant experience prior to landing the job at QPR. Furthermore, he lacks fundamental competencies such as deep intelligence, communication skills, and commercial nous. Yes, he was a great player (for which he will always be revered) but he should never have been given the DoF role in the first place. He was always going to fail because he simply wasn't good enough. Now that he has, he's crying wolf, just as he did when the FA rejected his application. [Post edited 16 Oct 2023 21:43]
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| Thought's on this from Les on 22:16 - Oct 16 with 1814 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Thought's on this from Les on 21:41 - Oct 16 by Benny_the_Ball |
Nonsense. A qualification doesn't make you Director material. Degree graduates do not walk straight into a C' level role. Typically, you need to have fulfilled a senior management post for a number of years before being considered for a Directorial position. The only exception to this is if you start up your own company, which isn't the case here.
The fact remains that Les had zero relevant experience prior to landing the job at QPR. Furthermore, he lacks fundamental competencies such as deep intelligence, communication skills, and commercial nous. Yes, he was a great player (for which he will always be revered) but he should never have been given the DoF role in the first place. He was always going to fail because he simply wasn't good enough. Now that he has, he's crying wolf, just as he did when the FA rejected his application. [Post edited 16 Oct 2023 21:43]
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‘deep intelligence’ |  | | |
| Thought's on this from Les on 22:43 - Oct 16 with 1791 views | ngbqpr |
| Thought's on this from Les on 23:07 - Oct 14 by daveB |
The Didier Drogbas got aids song that was sung loudly every week by plenty of fans.
We have more than our fair share
Just look at the replies on twitter to the QPR post about celebrating black history month |
Agree with Dave & Kensal, you don't have to dig that deep.
In the 70s / 80s I think generally speaking we had far less than many of the usual suspect clubs at that time...but I vividly remember at the Highbury semi-final vs WBA, a banana being thrown at their danger man Cyrille Regis, when they had a corner at our end. Regis, of course, was marked out of that game by our man of the match that day, one Bob Hazell - who glared at the North Bank in disgust.
That early 2000s period, I heard plenty. The town full of... and Drogba chants mentioned, the Al Fayed one...at the Vauxhall Motors away game I even saw some lads trying to get some of the particularly vile anti-semitic chants going that used to be aimed at Spurs. |  |
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| Thought's on this from Les on 23:37 - Oct 16 with 1731 views | VancouverHoop |
Yeah. I spent the early 70s in the Loft, a time when there were very few non-white players in the league. But when one appeared the cries of "Do the Spade!" or "Cripple the F**king Coon!" were all too common. Not by many TBF, but the few there were certainly made their voices heard. | | | |
| Thought's on this from Les on 23:40 - Oct 16 with 1728 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Thought's on this from Les on 21:15 - Oct 16 by Benny_the_Ball |
He did - "Great player". |
Is the correct answer!  |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| Thought's on this from Les on 23:50 - Oct 16 with 1718 views | loftboy |
| Thought's on this from Les on 17:10 - Oct 14 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
When I was a kid in the mid 80s, all the hooliganism and racism on the terraces, I never once heard anything racist at QPR and I never have 40 years later.
People like this Alan bloke are not what QPR are about or represent, he seems more aligned with the Chelscum. |
At the 82 cup final every time Bob Hazell beat crooks to a header Theresa’s a sizeable amount of Rangers fans singing “there’s only one kind of Ni**er” I was 15 amd stood next to a black bloke,he just stood there expressionless, I remember looking up to him and smiling apologetically, one of my clearest memory of the day.
Up at Everton circa 1989 one of our fans took an inflatable gorilla wearing a qpr shirt with a number 4 on its back, they called down to Paul Parker in the warm up and when he looked up turned the gorilla around so he could see the number, you could see he was visibly shocked. |  |
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| Thought's on this from Les on 00:38 - Oct 17 with 1694 views | VancouverHoop |
A couple of fundamental points need emphasising.
1) Our Board of Directors know very little about football. Or, so far as I'm aware, senior professional sport of any kind.
2) The role of Sporting Director is relatively new to professional football, particularly English Football.
Our present problems stem from these two facts alone, everything that follows is secondary and, of course, interminably debatable.
To say our Board has made mistakes, would be an understatement. Sixteen managers during their tenure underlines this. But, they've stuck with it. They've neither thrown in the towel nor thrown the club into debt. But it's also fair to say that for all their good intentions, they're bloody slow learners. For a group of very wealthy men they've seemed incredibly naive at times. This was especially so under Tony Fernandes chaimanship. All too often he reminded me of David St Hubbins's comment "I believe everything people tell me, it's simpler that way."
Is it better now? Maybe a bit, though it's hard to see daylight through the current gloom. The Board does seem committed to finding a DoF, but clearly they're not sure where, or how, to do that and there doesn't seem to be any manual available. Sir Les was presented, or presented himself, and seemed to tick all the right boxes. We all loved Les right? Club legend, even taken a few management courses to learn the job and hung around Spurs awhile to soak up the vibe. What could go wrong? Well quite a lot actually.
A football club's Sporting Director is, or should be, approximately the same as an NFL, MLB, NBA or NHL team's General Manager. He, or she (in a few cases) moves players and money around. That's what they do. Sometimes GMs are ex-players, like Les, but just as often they might have been player agents, or worked their way up through back-rooms in the minor leagues. They're guys in suits, invisible outside the board room or office. When they're not they're often disliked, especially by the the club's players. The GM, not the team manager, nor the owner (usually), is responsible for trades, and player transactions. To him they're assets or liabilities, and treated that way. Ruthlessmess is a job requirement.
We need one of them, big time. [Post edited 17 Oct 2023 0:40]
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| Thought's on this from Les on 01:18 - Oct 17 with 1674 views | E17hoop |
| Thought's on this from Les on 18:10 - Oct 14 by Northernr |
Which is why the word “some” is important in his quote.
Your experience reflects my own over the last 30 years.
But there is always a minority in any large group as you say. The Friday before the Burnley game last year Neil Critchley (the whitest man in the world and QPR’s 5th white manager in a row) was at Loftus Road signing his deal and doing his press shots - something both myself and WLS had been reporting as an inevitable done deal for a week. There was nevertheless still a lengthy thread on here about how Les was trying to create a situation whereby he could “crowbar Paul Hall into the job to further his agenda on black coaches”. That would definitely qualify as “SOME of the criticism” I reckon.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
As I've posted before, Eze was getting dog's abuse at Villa away a few years ago about his colour, his hair and how he was 'lazy like the lot of them'. We have racist fans and just because some people haven't seen or heard it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. |  |
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| Thought's on this from Les on 03:06 - Oct 17 with 1647 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Thought's on this from Les on 00:38 - Oct 17 by VancouverHoop |
A couple of fundamental points need emphasising.
1) Our Board of Directors know very little about football. Or, so far as I'm aware, senior professional sport of any kind.
2) The role of Sporting Director is relatively new to professional football, particularly English Football.
Our present problems stem from these two facts alone, everything that follows is secondary and, of course, interminably debatable.
To say our Board has made mistakes, would be an understatement. Sixteen managers during their tenure underlines this. But, they've stuck with it. They've neither thrown in the towel nor thrown the club into debt. But it's also fair to say that for all their good intentions, they're bloody slow learners. For a group of very wealthy men they've seemed incredibly naive at times. This was especially so under Tony Fernandes chaimanship. All too often he reminded me of David St Hubbins's comment "I believe everything people tell me, it's simpler that way."
Is it better now? Maybe a bit, though it's hard to see daylight through the current gloom. The Board does seem committed to finding a DoF, but clearly they're not sure where, or how, to do that and there doesn't seem to be any manual available. Sir Les was presented, or presented himself, and seemed to tick all the right boxes. We all loved Les right? Club legend, even taken a few management courses to learn the job and hung around Spurs awhile to soak up the vibe. What could go wrong? Well quite a lot actually.
A football club's Sporting Director is, or should be, approximately the same as an NFL, MLB, NBA or NHL team's General Manager. He, or she (in a few cases) moves players and money around. That's what they do. Sometimes GMs are ex-players, like Les, but just as often they might have been player agents, or worked their way up through back-rooms in the minor leagues. They're guys in suits, invisible outside the board room or office. When they're not they're often disliked, especially by the the club's players. The GM, not the team manager, nor the owner (usually), is responsible for trades, and player transactions. To him they're assets or liabilities, and treated that way. Ruthlessmess is a job requirement.
We need one of them, big time. [Post edited 17 Oct 2023 0:40]
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Whilst you may be on to something in terms of what we need I should emphasise another fundamental point. Les was Director of Football, not Sporting Director. These are 2 different roles, with the key difference being that our CFO, Lee Hoos, is in charge of the purse strings. | | | |
| Thought's on this from Les on 05:25 - Oct 17 with 1622 views | VancouverHoop |
| Thought's on this from Les on 03:06 - Oct 17 by Benny_the_Ball |
Whilst you may be on to something in terms of what we need I should emphasise another fundamental point. Les was Director of Football, not Sporting Director. These are 2 different roles, with the key difference being that our CFO, Lee Hoos, is in charge of the purse strings. |
Aren't Sporting Director and Director of Football just a matter of semantics? It's not clear what the difference is to me. Does any club actually have both?
Yup, Lee Hoos is, essentially, Financial Director. He knows how much money the club has to spend, but doesn't control how they spend it. At least so far as the footballing side of things is concerned. | | | |
| Thought's on this from Les on 07:45 - Oct 17 with 1519 views | QPR_Jim |
| Thought's on this from Les on 21:41 - Oct 16 by Benny_the_Ball |
Nonsense. A qualification doesn't make you Director material. Degree graduates do not walk straight into a C' level role. Typically, you need to have fulfilled a senior management post for a number of years before being considered for a Directorial position. The only exception to this is if you start up your own company, which isn't the case here.
The fact remains that Les had zero relevant experience prior to landing the job at QPR. Furthermore, he lacks fundamental competencies such as deep intelligence, communication skills, and commercial nous. Yes, he was a great player (for which he will always be revered) but he should never have been given the DoF role in the first place. He was always going to fail because he simply wasn't good enough. Now that he has, he's crying wolf, just as he did when the FA rejected his application. [Post edited 16 Oct 2023 21:43]
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Why do people repeatedly claim he's unqualified if he is in fact qualified? Lack of experience is a different matter and at the time the role was relatively new and not widely adopted by other clubs, so where exactly do you get experience?
Nobody bats an eyelid at Rooney or Lampard being given a championship club to gain experience, they may have coaching badges but had never managed, what's the difference? |  | | |
| Thought's on this from Les on 09:04 - Oct 17 with 1450 views | slmrstid |
Pedants Corner again but Lee Hoos is the Chief Executive Officer, he is not the Finance Director.
That role belongs to, and has for quite a long time, a chap called Ruban Ghandi. We never hear from him, but he is the FD, not Lee.
https://www.qpr.co.uk/club/staff-directory |  | | |
| Thought's on this from Les on 09:10 - Oct 17 with 1441 views | ChrisNW6 |
| Thought's on this from Les on 21:41 - Oct 16 by Benny_the_Ball |
Nonsense. A qualification doesn't make you Director material. Degree graduates do not walk straight into a C' level role. Typically, you need to have fulfilled a senior management post for a number of years before being considered for a Directorial position. The only exception to this is if you start up your own company, which isn't the case here.
The fact remains that Les had zero relevant experience prior to landing the job at QPR. Furthermore, he lacks fundamental competencies such as deep intelligence, communication skills, and commercial nous. Yes, he was a great player (for which he will always be revered) but he should never have been given the DoF role in the first place. He was always going to fail because he simply wasn't good enough. Now that he has, he's crying wolf, just as he did when the FA rejected his application. [Post edited 16 Oct 2023 21:43]
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So he's just too thick?
Have you looked at the list of ex-footballers currently in the DOF role in the Prem and Championship. | | | |
| Thought's on this from Les on 09:35 - Oct 17 with 1389 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Thought's on this from Les on 21:14 - Oct 16 by Benny_the_Ball |
If anyone is to take credit for reducing the wage bill, it's Lee as he's the CFO and therefore in charge of finances. Even this is debateable as the wage bill was reduced through expiry of the many ridiculous contracts handed out in the Premier League. It wasn't down to any witchcraft by either Les or Lee. |
Fair point that they worked together, but Hoos didn't do football back then as Clive always refers back to, so it was Ferdinand who had to bring in the players to replace the outgoing Premier League players. | |
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| Thought's on this from Les on 11:22 - Oct 17 with 1259 views | derbyhoop |
8 years ago what qualifications and experience would he have needed that he didn't have?
Years of playing at top level? YES
dealing with managers, contracts and agents? YES
coaching qualifications? YES
A knowledge of player databases and analytics on a par with Andy Belk or Matthew Benham's companies? NO.
The last is why you employ specialists. | |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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